His holiday with ex & how to confront - Part II

[patientandclear]

Connect ... .   I've had similarly invalidating experiences sometimes with therapists in processing my mind-twisting experience with my uBPDex.  The truth is you know a lot more about this at this point than she does.  It is vastly more complicated that "doesn't want to commit."  Or the other unhelpful things people say like "he doesn't feel about this the way you do," as if the problem was that you feel strongly & he feels less strongly.

That is NOT what this is.

It is the "strength" (weird concept here, but ... .   ) of his feelings that leads to these behaviors.  And it is the fact that he shows you a strong connection with you & a strong desire for you, at the same time that he then undermines & sabotages your r/s, that causes you so much confusion.  A simple lack of interest on his part would be so much easier to process and deal with.

As Arabella says, though, back to you.  This boundary ... .   if you don't mean it & enforce it, there's no reason for him to think he cannot do this again and again.

If you do enforce it, you are doing it not to get him to do something -- but because you prefer not to be in a r/s where this occurs.  Since you do not presently have a choice of having a r/s with him where you are safe from this kind of betrayal ... .   those are the alternatives.  A r/s with him where this can occur, or not being in the r/s with him.  I wish there were a Door #3 but there is not, not unless he undertakes a long, hard, transformative journey that he hasn't even begun & is not even talking about beginning.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Seashells]

A simple lack of interest on his part would be so much easier to process and deal with.

As Arabella says, though, back to you.  This boundary ... .   if you don't mean it & enforce it, there's no reason for him to think he cannot do this again and again.

If you do enforce it, you are doing it not to get him to do something -- but because you prefer not to be in a r/s where this occurs. 

   Those really nail it right there. 

[MaybeSo]

High functioning borderlines aren't hanging from the ceiling and taking regular trips to the ER. They mostly just make people they are close to nuts.

My ex was just like what you are going through.

Here's the rub. It's not illegal nor even a huge red flag in our society to be a confusing, projecting, mind twisty relationship partner that isn't very nice.

What does start to look unhealthy is putting up with behavior we clearly find damaging and hurtful and unacceptable and doesn't meet important stated needs.  Yes he is crazy making, but really, if you focus on his actions and not his words,  it's pretty straightforward.

I agree with your T,  he's not available for commitment. He may offer other nice things, but he is not committed.

His actions are not those of a committed, caring partner.  He isn't that person.

That is hard to accept emotionally, true. But it's straight forward. All the talking just invites all the confusion and blame and projection and mixed messages.  

His actions convey none of that; his actions show he is not available for a committed

relationship.

You get decide if that's ok with you or not.

Also, many folks with BPD don't have affairs and triangulate this way; it's not a criteria. Stephs husband (recovered from BPD)  never did this N stuff, but mine sure did!  It certainly

shows up a lot on this board, but not always. No matter his Label, it's still your choice about

what your values and needs are in any relationship.  

[maria1]

Hi Connect

I just wanted to say I've followed this thread and it triggers me because my exwBPD dumped me by pretending he wanted to be single because he was 'recovering' from a suicide attempt following a divorce and wanted to 'make the last steps of his journey alone'. He said we had to stay best friends though or he would kill himself.

What he actually wanted was to sleep with another woman he had found and he isn't really unfaithful so it was easier to just move me out and do what he was doing. When he found out she didn't quite meet his needs as well as me he wanted to sleep with me again. Your boyfriend's behaviour reminds me very much of my ex.

What he wanted was to have his cake and eat it too and how dare I question or challenge him on wanting that or even suggesting that was what he was doing. I knew nothing about BPD then I just thought he was treating us both horrendously and I withdrew from the friendship. I then discovered this site and went NC.

It hurt like mad and still does a little. I could not believe my sweet boyfriend could do this to me. I could not believe it; I wanted to believe anything but. His behaviour made no sense to me.

You can't make him change. You can pretend that he feels terrible for the hurt he inflicts on you. That may be so at times but I don't believe that people with BPD feek bad for long, or they wouldn't do it to the people they are supposed to love. I believe they can switch off their feelings about us when away from us and that's how they inflict such hurt. Your boyfriend seems to be doing a lot of projecting on to you right now.

He is nicely getting his needs met and I am so sorry that he cannot meet yours. Facing that he cannot and will not will be immensely painful, but staying in it long term and allowing him to treat you like this will be a long slow burn that will damage you more. Please take care of yourself. You deserve it.

[connect]

Hi guys,

Thanks - a tonic to read your messages when I got home tonight.

Seashells - thank you. I seem to be stuck in the anger phase right now but I am sure that will change. I didnt know I knew so many swearwords... . Hope your situation goes well for you.

Arabella - thanks - I hope that your cycles of grief and anger get you to a resolution too. Its a rubbish situation as I know that I am "out of sight out of mind" to him. I feel like I am turning myself inside out and he is doing exactly what he wants without a care.

PatientandClear - thank you for clarifying what I was thinking and what my therapist didnt see about this. What I want from him is the door 3 you spoke of - a long transformative journey. I cant carry on with him otherwise after this.

Maybeso - thanks - I have been looking at your first posts and can see that you have come on a huge journey and learnt so much. I am listening to your points. I kmow that he cannot meet my needs at the moment, we are in very different places. I have put so much money in his slot machine that it is hard to not collect the winnings. I know all this intelectually but it is tough.

Maria1 - thank you - I am sorry that you have been in a similar position - it sucks. You are right about the projecting - he is doing loads of it and accusing me of spoiling the r/s with my reaction to his actions. He also did this strange thing of getting angry with me and almost stealing the kind of things I should be saying to HIM! He said things like "I wont say I love you after the week of turmoil you've just put me through" I'm thinking, hang on, isnt that MY line?  !

I hear what you are saying guys - thank you - I have had not a glimmer of an urge to call him btw x

[Grey Kitty]

  Just wanted to say that I've been watching this thread, and I ran out of things to say or felt like somebody else had already said whatever I was thinking as well as I could have or better. My heart goes out to you--watching this come at you like a slow-motion train-wreck.      Hang in there and take care of yourself.

[whereisthezen]

  just wanted to send you good vibes. Sorry about your r/s. can you spend some time on you this week? Any chance you can go do yoga or go running? Any chance you have a hobby you've been neglecting that would put you in good spirits? Wishing you strength and clarity to take care of yourself. You can't take care of the relationship when your partner doesn't show up. I know I've been dealing with a similar scenario. Find peace as fast as you can. 

[connect]

Hello,

Thanks Grey Kitty

Whereisthezen - good advice - I have arranged two days this week of something creative that I have been neglecting - it will be good for me. Yoga would be good to re-start again too.

Wanted to check in tonight as I am feeling very low and cant sleep again. The anger is reducing but am crying a lot. The intrusive thoughts about what he is doing keep coming at me. I keep thinking of the good times with him. I miss him (never not been in contact with him for this long before - he went Fri am and its now late Sun) I keep thinking of the sex too - it was amazing. Keep thinking of him. Its horrible. Didnt leave the house today but will go out tomorrow evening.

No contact from him - I havent and wont try to contact him as I will not condone his behaviour and what would I say to him anyway? Dont know what to say really - I have nothing to say about boundaries, what I will do or anything at the moment. Just feel horrible and wanted to post. I could say a lot about how hard this is but I am sure you all know. Feeling sorry for myself tonight.

Thanks for helping guys

[maria1]

I'm so sorry you are feeling so low. I remember it as a wretched physical and emotional pain that feels unbearable. I never imagined I could get to a point of not desperately wanting him in my life, needing him in my life.

I have got to that point. I don't miss him and I don't feel pain any more. I am glad to be out and using what I learned from the r/s to try and grow myself. I say this because I'd like to give you hope of something different where you are what matters.

Because you matter more than him. Because you would not do to him what he is doing to you, that's what hurts so much but that's what gave me strength too. 

[connect]

Thank you Maria1 - that means a lot.

I didnt expect the pain to feel almost physical - I wish the anger was back - it felt more productive. At the moment I just feel weak  :'(

[arabella]

I didnt expect the pain to feel almost physical - I wish the anger was back - it felt more productive. At the moment I just feel weak 

That's what I was talking about earlier - the anger feeling more productive than the grief cycles. It only feels that way though, really the crying is productive too, it helps to heal. I'm sorry you're going through this, it's not fair and you didn't deserve to have this happen. I know how that physical pain feels, it's so awful. I like to take a hot shower/bath as I find it helps to alleviate some of the tension (and the stuffy nose ). You aren't weak. Think of those tears as weakness leaving your body, leaving a stronger, more determined version of yourself to fight through this!

[Seashells]

Dear Connect,

It's a very tough thing your going through, please don't be hard on yourself.  I remember feeling "gutted" for lack of a better word.   I get what you mean about the physical aspects.  I had a lot of stomach problems which lead to those other kinds of problems  ... .   after the stomach part of the anatomical process.   

At least for me, the first few days I found any small comforting distraction welcome.  It will get better, but it's sure hard to see when you're going through it. 

I thought of this post by Blazing Star I read and thought maybe it would help you.   I think when you are ready to do things, for comfort you will.  I hope you don't compound your grief it by feeling like you HAVE to do something right now if you don't feel like it.  Be as good to yourself as you would to any one of your friends who were going through it. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=198573.0

[Billa]

I've read it all. i'll take some time to find the proper words to write. But, as you know, I've shared a very similar experience. and the pain is too much before and too much after. As someone has written: the sole idea of the vacation, even if the project was aborted, is a mortal wound for the relationship. In some way, doing this, they are trying to take control and manage to fit us in the place they are choosing for us. In my case, he was showing me what my place was from now on: staying at the window, waiting for him do decide when he'd make me the great favour of his company. That is to say, no longer a Gf, just a woman in his harem.

[yeeter]

Be as good to yourself as you would to any one of your friends who were going through it. 

[rosannadanna]

Good Morning connect

Wanted to post a link to an article about a break up causing physical pain:

www.shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/love-hurts-no-really-it-hurts-new-study-links-rejection-to-physical-pain-2469497.html

This is the yucky phase, but it is your first stage of NC and its good that neither one of you are trying to contact the other b/c it would bring you back to the FOG.  NC allows you to de-FOG, but does it feel lousy!

It might be helpful to read some of 2010's old posts about abandonment depression.

Also, clearmind posted a link to a free interview series in Taking Personal Inventory called "The Self-Acceptance Project".  I only watched the first one so far about "Being Compassionate to Your Inner-Critic", but I mentioned it to you b/c I thought some lessons in mindfulness and compassionate self-talk might be helpful to you during this time.  I know I find it very helpful!

You are in my thoughts this week.

[connect]

Hi Rosanadanna,

Thank you for those links! I will look at those this evening when I get back in. I really appreciate it  I will look at 2010's posts as I have heard other people mention these posts... . Thanks also to Maria1, arabella (you're right baths do help), seashells and billa xx

Am up and about today with make up on and everything. Still tearful but with make up on at least.

I tracked down and have made an appt this week with a therapist that specialises in BPD and speaks to clients and/or their partners. We had a long chat over the phone and he says BPD sounds very likely and the patterns I described are typical of it. I will see him in a few days as it will help me clear my mind that I am not at fault in my reactions. I am looking forward to it - it was WONDERFUL to speak to a therapist that "gets it" It felt like a great weight off my mind to speak to him about this madness x

[Grey Kitty]

connect,

I'm sure your feelings will continue to be all over the place, but at least you sound a better right now Here is an extra hug or two in case they are down when you login next.   

I'm glad to hear that you have a sympathetic and knowledgeable therapist lined up! That should help you a lot.

I started on those "The Self-Acceptance Project" interviews. The first one was good, and I haven't gotten farther yet. I noticed mindfulness in several teacher bio's, and think that is a good sign--I've gotten a lot from that sort of practice.

[connect]

Thanks for the virtual hugs Grey Kitty - very kind 

Had a better evening and went out and listened to some new songs by my favourite band (The National) that I hadnt heard before. Cheered me up and reminded me of what I used to be like before the rollercoaster.

Still feeling very delicate but the appt with the new T is something positive to focus on. Will see what tomorrow brings.

[maria1]

Hey Connect- just have to say I love the National. Saw them with exBPD year before last and they were fantastic. They have got me through some tough times. When I'm feeling low I put Bloodbuzz Ohio on and I'm lifted up.

Funnily enough one of the first things BPDex messaged me with was that he went running to the National. Looking back I think I liked them loads more than he did.

Glad you had a better evening

[connect]

Hey Maria1,

Hello fellow National fan! Greatest band in the world - seen them lots of times (first time I saw them they were unknown and played to about 100 people-great gig)

Here's the new single:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=N527oBKIPMc

Here's the lyrics:

www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107859454648/

The line "I sincerely tried to love her, Wish that I could rise above her." rings true for me at the moment. Although you would have to replace her with him

[connect]

Hi guys,

Got my first text from him today from his holiday.

"Morning honey" at the start... .   then:   He said its raining. His child has been ill. He also said he is now currently ill with a bad stomach.

Any thoughts as to whats going on in his BPD mind? I know I need to be focussing on myself (which I am - I really am - honestly) but I am very curious as to what you guys think about this sort of message. You all have more experience with this then I do.

Thanks

[maria1]

Things going bad there he looks to you for good. You can make it all better. Good mother.

It was always going to happen.

What do you want now?

[MaybeSo]

Emotional manipulation.

Good Mommy, Feel sorry for me, and don't stay angry, look... .   I'm not even having fun on my vacation with my F buddy. I stole the cookie from the cookie jar but didn't really enjoy it!

(also... .   If you stay angry with me, even as I suffer, it shows how unreasonable you are. Bad mommy)

Head games.

[briefcase]

Any thoughts as to whats going on in his BPD mind? I know I need to be focussing on myself (which I am - I really am - honestly) but I am very curious as to what you guys think about this sort of message. You all have more experience with this then I do.

In my experience . . . it doesn't really matter what's going on in his BPD mind.  It's always tempting to wonder, I know. 

But you said this was a deal breaker.  He knew it.  He went anyway. Was this a deal breaker?  Does it matter if he had a terrible time, got sick, had lousy weather, or if the kids were a pain in the rear?  If this is all true, does it make a difference to you?     

[connect]

Thanks Maria1, Maybeso and Briefcase,

Similar responses from you guys then... .  

I havent forgotten the dealbreaker scenario Briefcase - am working through all this in my head this week. Seeing two T's this week about it too, one specialising in BPD, to clarify my thoughts.

He just sent another text saying how ill he is, that the food is awful and he has only been able to eat bland stuff.

Anymore input would be VERY gratefully received! This week is about me and not him - but I would love to know what people think about these messages.

Thank you all

[maryy16]

I think he is trying to make you believe that he is not having a good time on his vacation so that (in his mind) you won't have a reason to be mad at him when he gets home.

For instance, if you refuse to see him when he returns, he will reply with "why are you so upset? I didn't even have fun.  I was sick the whole time, the food was bad, etc.".  This is his form of rationalizing his behavior.

And he may not actually "get" why you are upset about his going in the first place. He may believe that the reason you are upset is because he is doing something fun without you, so if he makes on like he's having a bummer of a time, then you won't be mad anymore when he gets back and life will go on as usual.

But, again, who knows what they are thinking.  BPD is a whole different world.

[arabella]

Yup, I totally agree with the previous responses.  So the only question is, where do you want to go from here? You can't just let it slide (tempting as that may be) because then you're just setting yourself up for this sort of behaviour to escalate in the future. If you can't make yourself dump his sorry arse altogether - what other options are there? (And there are always options - just have to think of them!)

[Seashells]

FWIW, I agree with Maybeso.

He is feeling you out right now.  He wants you to accept this and act like it's normal   and nothing out of the ordinary has happened.  He will then be able to juggle back and forth between the two of you at will. 

If it were me, I wouldn't respond to him especially while he is still away.  Think about what you want.  At least in my situation responding normally under circumstances like this would signal acceptance to him. 

The part about this that becomes so difficult is no one in a healthy relationship would do something like this and expect to be able to return to it.  Yet, it seems some of them do try to pull it off,  repeatedly if they can.

[whereisthezen]

Do not fall for it!

He IS having a good time! I've heard similar and I don't buy it anymore. When this happens, it's just to downplay their behavior. I highly doubt he's having a bad time. If he was really having a bad time he'd call, come HOME, go to therapy. Not likely this is happening so I'm more inclined to tell you he's lying to get you to BITE. Do not do it as soon as you do his brain will no longer focus on anything but having a good time and telling you more lies.

I wish I could hear me when I need it! Be strong! Stay away from him.

[yeeter]

In my experience . . . it doesn't really matter what's going on in his BPD mind.  It's always tempting to wonder, I know.  

But you said this was a deal breaker.  He knew it.  He went anyway. Was this a deal breaker?  :)oes it matter if he had a terrible time, got sick, had lousy weather, or if the kids were a pain in the rear?  If this is all true, does it make a difference to you?      

. I have nothing to add to this, great advice

Second guessing what he is thinking isn't productive.  Even less productive is painting him black and accusing him of manipulation, name calling, etc.

Take the high road. 

It's simple.  You have a boundary that is about YOU.  At this stage it has nothing to do with him