Nothing I did made any difference

[Maryiscontrary]

I too followed all of these studies, and really dug in and listened to him with empathy. Eye contact, sitting beside him, holding his hand, reflective listening, SET. No avail.

This had triggered me. I want to cry. I have never felt so powerless in my life. Nothing I did made any difference. Too far gone. Flashback.

[real lady]

I too followed all of these studies, and really dug in and listened to him with empathy. Eye contact, sitting beside him, holding his hand, reflective listening, SET. No avail.

This had triggered me. I want to cry. I have never felt so powerless in my life. Nothing I did made any difference. Too far gone. Flashback.

I am sorry Mary... .    It is painful but I think that it would be HEALING for us to realize what we have done and WHY it did NOT make any difference. It's NOT our fault. We did our best. I have felt powerless as well but realize that I DO HAVE POWER and that my pwBPD CANNOT take it from me. I hope you are out of relationship with your pwBPD... .   if not, have you thought about counseling for yourself for healing?  

[Maryiscontrary]

Yes to all. I mean, this is like brain damage. There are case studies in the literature of people with epilespy, dementia, or TBI acting like this. I mean, this person could not hear me. No meeting of the minds  whatsoever. Bending over backward makes no difference. Extreme mindfulness to my own behaviors didn't work. This person is an epic, insufferable, broken ass.

I mean, there is a lot we are responsible for, but when you start cleaning your side of the street and realize many people around you are self destructive jack Arses.

With commuciation. You are dealing with a person who is gravely Ill. If you are mindful, and swallow pride and attempted genuine due diligence with attempting to resolve issues, then communication issues are very likely not your fault, you have a person with severe cognitive processing deficits.

Remember this problem leads to a much, much shorter life expectancy. This attachment style is very destructive.

[Suzn]

I mean, this is like brain damage. There are case studies in the literature of people with epilespy, dementia, or TBI acting like this.

Mary I'm not sure what you are referring to by saying "acting like this." We are discussing communication conflicts. Let's work together to find some solutions.    Otherwise we are simply co-ruminating.

You are very right that a problem like this could lead to a shorter life span. That would depend on our own coping skills and how we react to conflict and frustration. Stress can be a killer for sure. Yes, dealing with a disordered person can be difficult, it's work. Our expectations play a big role, a person with the emotional maturity of a 4 yr old has a hard time not projecting, not taking things very personal and struggles to express themselves. With a lot of practice we can see the possibility of dysregulation approaching and work to head it off. And sometimes, it doesn't work. That's when holding true to our boundaries and knowing when to take a time out ourselves come into play.

[Maryiscontrary]

Let me clarify, I was having a really bad night last night.

The absolute communication failures can be features of overt neuro disease or tissue damage states, as well. I suppose that what I was trying to get across is that when communication efforts completely fails,  after due diligence, after mindful, nonviolent communication efforts, it is time to detatch, because there is something gravely wrong.

I see folks on this board get wounded over and over and really take this failure personally.

And Suzn, this is not projecting, as if a person really, really wants change, he or she will do it. It may not be efficient because of the underlying trauma, but it can be done with work.

[Maryiscontrary]

Real lady, I feel that it is very important to internalize this. It is one thing if there are bonding issues, it is one thing if there is PTSD, it is one thing if there are communication issues. A person can have a lot of crap wrong with them, and still give effort to try for better good.

But the thing that sticks in my craw is the lazy factor. If a person does not want it, this is a character flaw. If the person does not want to accept love, and somebody really trying to listen, this is voluntary lazy, and he is just trying to cover it up. Big difference. And he knows it, real lady.

I know this is so hard to fathom, but some people are just too lazy. It has nothing to do with BPD.

There are a lot of people with attachment issues described on the staying board who are really trying to become better partners and really wrestle with inpulsivity and mood control. They are really trying.

this sounds like a character issue, and unless a person detaches from such bad habits with a person like this, she will be forced into a doormat role.

[real lady]

  Mary,

I guess that is when I realized that I needed to move to the "leaving board"... .   when nothing that I did seemed to make any difference in my BPDso's behavior toward me. It is sad but we need to accept the fact that we cannot change them.

I have not thought of BPD and laziness as being related in any way. I have always thought of "laziness" with a BPD as being procrastination, denial and putting off facing what they really need to face to heal from BPD. It's not easy to face having to live with a pwBPD and feeling broadsided, as I have but I imagine that it is much harder for my uBPDso to deal with me (being there and constantly reminding him of what he does not have because of what he had done... .   loss of relationship, and it hurts me deeply too) and having to face loss after loss when we thought we "had our dream come true".

[Phoenix.Rising]

Mary,  I want to relate.  I've been feeling some sadness and pain the past couple of days.  I did, and do, care deeply for my ex, and like you, I spent a lot of hours researching BPD and then putting into practice the techniques I learned with her.  I did notice some improvement at times, but the overall pattern remained the same.

I agree that if they do nothing to change their behavior, then the techniques we learn are basically being used to put out fires and assuage our own hurt feelings, rather than improve the overall health of the relationship.  Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see how there can be any real growth as a couple if only one partner wants to change.

Sometimes I find myself thinking that I did not do enough, that I wasn't good enough, etc. for her.  I definitely have character flaws and some of my own attachment issues as well, but I also have a lot of awareness and a willingness to address my problems.  She basically said she was doing it her way and that was that!

We are not perfect, but we did the best we could, and I know I made the right decision in moving on and letting her go.  You did, too.  And you know, maybe some things we did did make a difference, but just not in a way that we are aware of.    

[mango_flower]

The powerlessness is horrible... .  

"If I'd just done X, if I'd just said X... .   "  It eats you up inside.

But you know - you did everything right.  You followed the recipe.  It's not your fault it didn't work. 

I feel for you. I'm so sorry I have no constructive advice, just want to let you know I hear you  x

[imstronghere2]

Part of the problem too is that they keep changing what they want.  We can and most of us do what would make them happy but it's never enough.  They won't allow themselves to be happy.  So when it's over, we beat ourselves up with what we could have done differently, or more that would have made the difference.   The answer - nothing because we did everything already and then some.   Wasn't our fault.

Perfect example.  My exwBPD left us and abandoned her own biological children.  Even though they're my kids, they are two of the best kids anyone could ever hope to have.  Did they do something that forced their mother to not talk to them or spend any time with them now?  Of course not. 

We have to accept what we cannot change. 

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks for your responses. I appreciate that a lot of you can relate.

Again, it is one thing to have an emotional regulation problem, it's one thing to have some impulsivity control problems. I am telling you, these are really painful issues.

But to trash a marriage, and be completely non negotiable, that in my opinion, is lazy. That is a person who does not care at all about life, nor is interested in trying. That is the tragedy.

[Phoenix.Rising]

It is tragic, and difficult to accept.  I see it as free will, or stubbornness, or addiction, or laziness, or my way or the highway, or whatever.  They do have a choice, and some people will drive that train straight into the grave, sadly enough.  I've seen it more than once. 

I can only pray for them, or wish them well if I don't pray.  Outside of that, my hands are completely tied.  The only control I have is over my life.  That's why we end up letting go.

[seeking balance]

But to trash a marriage, and be completely non negotiable, that in my opinion, is lazy. That is a person who does not care at all about life, nor is interested in trying. That is the tragedy.

I know it hurts to lose a marriage.  If you are like me, marriage was - "all in" - no matter what.

Yep, you are right - we cannot carry 100% of the deal... .   it is a partnership and like it or not, we all have free will - even our beloved pwBPD.

I am sorry you are hurting so much right now - how are you getting all that anger out?  I did a lot of walking and I have read about others who took up kick boxing - how are you moving that energy through you?

Peace,

SB