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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: After that phone call, it literally felt like a spike straight through my heart  (Read 2675 times)
HarmKrakow
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 10:14:39 AM »

I wanted to say that I bet you really need not worry at all about your professional future - because you sound like someone who has the ability to do very well - and this confirms it. It doesn't mean you have to be in a major hurry to jump back into the 'rat race' again though - you can afford to take time now to look after yourself for a while and build up your emotional strength. That will mean that all aspects of your life - work, social life, family etc can be better in the future.

Yes - I see what you mean about what's available to you in the Netherlands in terms of emergency psychiatric support. I'm in the UK and it's very similar here. But I'm wondering if there are other ways of increasing the assistance you're getting right now?

First of all, i've been emailing back and forth with this potential employer yesterday and I already noticed heart 'bumps' as in, uh-oh, i'm not sure if my body from a physical and mental point of view is 'ready' to jump back into work. I did deliberately quit work just 2 weeks ago although the last 2 weeks have been utter hell and nothing else with 2 nights me leaving a suicide note. It's crazy when I think about it, because I even have to admit, today, I woke up at 7AM, and couldn't fall asleep anymore. Felt like my heart was pounding out of my chest and basically have been crying till 1AM in my bed, just holding the bed sheets, and going left and forth and back and right. Hoping for it to stop. And ofc, again, these sentences in your head; I want to die, I want gone, I want out, I don't want to live with this pain anymore, I'm not good enough for anyone and I just feel so lonely. And, I mean, i keep the lights out. I just close myself of. I notice i'm shyer than ever (i'm an extravert person) and when I go to the supermarket, I feel being looked at, I feel disgust with myself.

Excerpt
How often do you see your T? I know you can call him whenever you want - that's good - but do you have two or three sessions a week? I hope so because I think that one session might not feel like enough. Is it possible to get some more sessions with him on a regular, weekly basis? I know from my own experience that you make faster and more effective progress if you get the maximum amount of support available as soon as possible - and put as much structure in place in your life as you can.

Not enough. I don't have 2/3 sessions a week. I have like one every 2/3 week and I can call a hotline to sort of go for a 'emergency' meeting, but unfortunately I can't do that all the time. Meaning, when i'm at my ends rope, between 08-17.00 I can call and the assistant can check if there is half an hour or hour free and put me in.

Excerpt
And, I seriously realize that when I'm on my own and I have such a crying phase, btw, it's seriously weird, you basically prepare food in the kitchen with tears flying from ur eyes. Ur a grown man, and u lay on the floor of the living room in the middle of the afternoon crying. Crying ... . just crying, shivering.

If you've read much on these boards you'll know that - unfortunately - this isn't that uncommon in the wake of a toxic relationship.  My experience was a little different from yours - but I went into a kind of shock for several weeks - lots of shivering - and actually I couldn't cry for a very long time - I wished that I could! So - hard and horrible as this is - please try and remember - this is normal - it's not a sign that you are in a uniquely impossible situation that's going to feel this awful for years -  you're simply in the middle of a crisis that has to be got through.

Thanks for acknowledging the 'normal'. Because frankly, I feel all beyond normal. I mean, like I said before, serious, when you are in such a crying phase, and you try to think as conscious as you can about this death wish of mine. I realize, I seriously I realize, I want to be dead. It's not some, oh, like 'thinking about how would it be to jump or take pills' and be gone ... . no, no like, really no. When you have the utter moments of despair, you really, desperately, want death. You want to dissolve, and the pain, I keep repeating it and have to until it goes away, the pain, also this morning, SO much pain, I shout it out. And you find yourself in the midst of the path between bed and shower. Crying, shouting, not wanting to call people because, well, everyone dear to you already knows about the issues, and well, i'm scared when I repeat it to often, my dearest friends, and I seriously just barely have a handful, might leave me. 

We met in London, we lived together for a year in the Netherlands and the moment she went back to Poland it went downhill between the two of us, I supported her the entire time in Holland, as I do speak the language, just, be there for her, 24/7 and now she does that with someone else. And, ... . I still want to BE with this abuser, I want to be with her, love her, help her, make love with her. Seriously whatwhasthat, I still want to be with her, and then I think (with my shrink) I mean, MAN OH MAN, I made myself co-dependent on her. Atm my hapiness, joy, depends from her actions and as she keeps to continue to treat me like sh!twater, this is a one way streak to hell. And the co-dependency issues, I only noticed that, MONTHS IN the hatred phase. During the idealization phase I never had this feeling of being clingy to her or that my happiness depended on her, I noticed that I couldn't be happy anymore 2 months or so in the hatred phase where she painted me black and white every day or so.

Meaning, as of this point in time, I ... . STUPIDLY(!) believe, that, I ... .   that I can not be happy or ever find love and such an attractive woman like this, ever again. And seriously, whatwasthat, i've had more relationships than this one, and believe it or not, they are my good friends(!) They actually try to HELP me, in order to get rid of this cancerous growth. They are exes, and in both cases, I split up with them, but because of the good connection and realization that friends worked better as a couple, I still talk to them, atleast weekly!

My EX BPD, will be the very, very, very ... .   VERY first person EVER, in my LIFE, which I would completely cut off. I never, ever have cut off anyone in my life. Never. I always give someone, a third chance, a fourth chance, a 100th chance. I believe in the goodness of people. I do. And my goodness, she stole this away from me. I puke every day a few times. Ridiculous! All for this Polish girl ... . I can not get my head around it.

Excerpt
I don't enjoy anything at the moment. I don't enjoy the sun, I don't enjoy running, I don't enjoy or feel satisfaction out of anything. It's seriously hard like crazy to get through a day when every activity you try, feels like one to many.

It's simply what happens when you're depressed. It won't last forever. And the best thing to do right now - in my experience - is to say 'OK - life is going to look strange, colourless and a bit bleak for a while... .   it doesn't mean it really is that way... .   but I must just accept that this is how it feels for now and be patient that it will start to brighten up again before too long and be gentle with myself until that happens'.

It's amazing how much strength a person can have. Crying, for hours, not being able to sleep, feel completely utterly alone in the world and you walk around in the house thinking, should I go to the tracks? Should I take my sleeping pills and an overdose? And you end up crying again and hours later you wake up and another day has passed. I'm still here ... . Im STILL here... . that for me, already feels remarkably because sometimes I just walk through the house shouting, I want out. But ... . i'm still here, as said, today I actually felt guilty for having suicidal thoughts because I might hurt a few people.

You know, when I go outside, and I see a couple, a young couple with a baby, it feels like heaving a heart attach and migraine at the same time. When I see happiness, I feel jealous, because it's been a while since I laughed. You wonder, can I listen to music? I can't STAND to listen to music. Listening to a song on youtube or listening to music. Any kind, ANY KIND is so ~ing agony because ofc. it triggers me of a thought of my ex just partying like 24/7 

It feels like so much unfairness, me crying in bed for hours, contemplating suicide, while my ex works and parties, works and parties, works and parties... .   and all in my face. I NEED TO LET HER GO.

Excerpt
... .   the core of the problem is relatively simply pointed towards my FOO, as I come from a proud family, meaning, the sense of having failed them and others, acts like such a pressure on ur shoulders. Failure is not really accepted.  And ... . my mother is physically and mentally disabled, and lives in a psychiatric institute. She has the IQ and EQ of someone of 15 years old. Meaning, she can be talked to, she can understand, her memory is poor, but she can be naughty as everyone was during their puberty. When I first introduced my ex BPD gf to my mother, I waited with it so long, because well, considering her circumstance it was a huge move. 4 weeks later the hatred phase started in our BPD r/s. I had to tell my mother the news. You know what happened? I wasn't able to. I yet to this day have to tell her the news. I went there on my own, wanted to tell her and ended up in a normal day conversation about something little as ofc. she is very emotional and I just couldnt break the news to her.

I left the institute and the moment I was in the alleyway/corridoor towards the exit, I collapsed and started crying, the nurses were all like, WOW, whats going ON HERE?. First a lot of appraisal, as my mother has been in this institute for like 20 years and considering  im 25, and considering I visit her on my own in a strong closed of psychiatric institute they were very proud of me, on the other hand, they understood my problem. I wanted my mother to be proud of me of me getting married. And now I showed my crazy (then soon to be) ex to her? I felt so much guilt it was beyond me. All I wanted was to make my mother proud of me, and due to unfortunate illness, I always tried for years and years with SO much pre-caution as i've been in other r/s before even longer ones than the one I had with my ex and those I never introduced to my mother. My ex told me, she'll understand. You'll be strong enough. The walk back from the mental institute towards the trainstation and towards home was a hell of a walk, I was crying constantly on the phone to one of my best friends which I literally (!) called out of the blue.

My question would be - 'What makes you believe that your mother isn't very proud of you already?'. You seem to behave like a wonderful son - visiting her regularly under very difficult circumstances. You sound like an incredibly caring and hard working person. What's not to be proud of?

You haven't failed at all Harm. That's clear. We all make mistakes in life, or follow paths that turn out to be the wrong ones  - that's normal. And some of these mistakes are really hard to get over - but they all offer us a chance to learn - to get wiser and stronger. We really wouldn't be properly alive if we didn't have these experiences. You might find that your friends and family are more forgiving and understanding of what you perceive of as 'failure' than you think. And if they're not then I think it may be your role to start spreading this message of emotional strength and maturity amongst them.

I spent a lot of my life over-working because I'd grown up with a very strong wish to please my father (an immensely warm, loving man with an overdeveloped work ethic of his own). It's taken me a long time to understand that he only ever wanted the best for me - but that no-one is perfect - so sometimes his messages to me were counter productive. We have to learn to pick and chose from amongst the legacy that our FOO leaves us - there will hopefully be beautiful things to treasure in amongst it all but also some things to gently but firmly reject.

I'm so sorry this is such a tough time Harm. But please remember - it's very normal to feel as you do in the circumstances. And these are not feelings that will last forever. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Sending hugs   WWT.

Smiling (click to insert in post) Well, I have a proud family which always have been telling me, visit her more often, visit her more often. When she is not here anymore, you will feel guilty that you aren't visiting her. Because i've lived in London for 4 years, I couldn't visit her every week, however, when I went back, I ofc. did visit her. I've basically been told my entire life, to constantly visit my mother.

Just to come back to another problem. I still let my life circle around my ex BPD who is partying all day every day, smoking, drinking, having fun, and well, one day she tells me she is happy and the other she tells me i've really hurt her. Whatwhasthat, ... . she will, she really will be the very first person I cut out of my life. And this ... . my goodness, this is the person a few months who wanted to marry me, have kids with me, and already wore my surname as 'joke'. I mean, this would be the very last person I would expect to cut out of my life.

I need to start doing something else, because this is not going anywhere... .  
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 10:42:36 AM »

Excerpt
So - hard and horrible as this is - please try and remember - this is normal - it's not a sign that you are in a uniquely impossible situation that's going to feel this awful for years -  you're simply in the middle of a crisis that has to be got through.

Since the dark times, I have also found comfort in the Mother of God (Mary). Not everyone shares my beliefs, and there was a time when I would have been very suspicious of this suggestion, but for me it has been a great blessing that she has come into my life. She is the very best mother and it helps me to have someone to turn to when I need to cry and feel protected.  For what it's worth, when I walk into my church, I light a candle for you while I ask her to help you. This is what I do for all the other lost children.

You know, in a way, I feel jealous of you, and from most religious people. I've been raised as a very strong conservative christian so what did I do when I hit puberty? I went against it. I was not allowed to watch TV on sunday, I had to go to church twice on Sunday, I was not allowed to make homework on sunday. I was not allowed to 'have a nap' when I wanted. I had to socialize during church times. I felt chained. And the fact you light a candle for me, in church, well, that touches me Smiling (click to insert in post). I mean, like I said, when I have suicidal contemplations, and I have them every day unfortunately, that little itty bitty feeling of guilt, as that you might hurt someone, also helps. It helps, serious, it helps. And for some reason, i'm still here! And truth be told, I wasn't expecting that.

Excerpt
It sounds like you have a couple of friends who really care about you. That is helpful, too. Having someone who will just sit with you and keep you company. I am thankful for my friend who did that for me.

I keep telling myself, that, these friends accept me for who I am, and although I only have a handful of friends, these have been my friends in moments of despair and greatness the last 10 years. Because ofc. after this horrible period with my ex, who blatantly constantly pointed the finger towards me and yelling; YOU ARE CRAZY, what's wrong with you? Why do you like me? I'm a btch, I treat you bad etc. I live in 'koo-koo' world, Harm your delusional ... . Harm, you will never be a good husband nor a good father. Serious, i've heard these things, day by day, month after month, and I was STUPID enough, to let it hit me. (Which is the reason why i'm completely drained of energy and everything and i hit rock bottom). Did I ever, EVER rage back at her? Never! I never raged back at her. Never, ever. And the one time, the one time I said a sentence after we already broke up; 'You are not worthy crying for' she became UTTERLY defensive. And made a scene about it. And what did Harm do? Guess... .   HE TOOK IT BACK AND APOLOGIZED!

My goodness PF, I allowed this abuse for months and months to happen.  :'(

Excerpt
You describe as the core of your problem a system of beliefs that is causing you shame and "breaking your shoulders." So, can you see that the distress is coming from those beliefs, and not from who you are? What if you take each of those 8 statements and told yourself something kind and positive instead?

Something positive? I've had a literally dozens of interviews where people often asked me. How do your friends describe you?

Busy, outgoing, extravert, doesn't stop talking, always helpful, always available, clever.

Now? I literally don't do anything besides reading something on the internet. I do talk here a lot, but besides a few friend talks on facebook or phonecalls, I don't talk a lot. I've had days where i haven't physically(!) talked to anyone. Those are the horror ones. Clever? Do I think i'm clever at the moment? My goodness, I literally feel like the stupidest person in the world. I literally feel dumb. Like, DUMB.

And my goodness, I feel guilty for wanting to die. Why? How about all those people who actually live on the street and wish for a better chance in life? People who are terminally ill and pray for another day? And here I am, a 25 year old post-grad student with years of work experience who is contemplating, well, I can't turn the tide anymore lads. I want to pull the plug. I mean, average age is what, 70? With a bit of luck i have another 45 years going. I would not even be half way, and I would let my end ... . be decided on a 'TOXIC' r/s gone completely wrong. And ... . ABOVE ALL ... . i know all this ... . i am aware of all this ... . but still ... .

Still this morning when I woke up, 7 in the morning. Looked around. Had no idea what the fudge I would do today and within a few minutes when I went online I started crying again, I wanted to shower and realized I was shivering so much. And just went on my knees again and thought. People ... . no ... . I can't continue with this. And you yet again lie on the floor, yelling out, crying out. That **** need to get out my head.

My self confidence is SO low. SO incredibly low. I feel I can't do ANYTHING right. Like my shrink said. Due to the hatred phase of the borderline relationship (of which I was unfortunately told, 'this was one by the book!' ... . I basically let her 'eat me alive' until I had NOTHING to give.

I feel so utterly ... . utterly empty. I don't know what to do with life man. Here I am, in rural Holland, far away from people and no kinship with anyone here. I got 2 friends on 'car driving' distance, the ones who invite themselves to my place.

Thank you people. Serious. Whatever happens, this 'journey' here, has been part of my life. I would have had no idea what I would have done without these forums and reading workshops.
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 11:38:25 AM »

Other than that people, I was wondering if you could comment on these plans.

As I currently have zill/nothing planned until first week of July. Living as monk in my bedroom 24/7 is clearly not the solution. I don't have the guts to go outside around here because it reminds me to much of my ex. Basically everything either in the total of the Netherlands or London reminds me of her., I close the curtains and well, I clean the kitchen, bathroom and my bed constantly because crying is not good for my stomach meaning everything goes out.

I ... . I need to do something. I unfortunately don't have frequent therapist meetings every week.

I, and this might sound crazy, am contemplating to go to Poland and do some couch surfing there and visit some old places with 'memories'.

The reason why, is because I sometimes need to bash through a wall in order to get through it. For example, I lived in a hostel in London, just to be 'under' the people. Why? Well, sometimes you need to get 'among' people in order to get that spark in your head.

However on the other hand, considering the utter weak state of mind and my ~load of suicidal contemplations, if, and if I break down, crash down, completely mentally. Well, taking your live in such a deprived poor city as Krakow is a little bit easier than where I currently am in upper north holland. However, I would like to meet new people. Or ... . better to say, I would like to get the acknowledgement, that I can still meet people, that others enjoy my company and judge me based on who I am, and accept who I am. I don't know if this is a good choice, however, I do feel an urge to do it. Plus, if I meet someone there for a good chat, it's without expectations. If I do it here, and I get rejected, it means I might have lost a possible friend close to where I live right now. As I will go back to the Netherlands (as my therapy continues) a rejection in a foreign country is a bit easier to deal with ... . i guess.

Besides, it was the last place where I saw her, and the last time she told me, 'our r/s is heading in the right direction'.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) :'(

Is this a clever way to deal with the grieving? The letting go? Because I feel personally some methods, for example my father who tells me, continue with ur life, why do you still mourn about her? (meaning ducking your head in the sand) isn't really helping. Plus ... . i fear for a ENORMOUS slap in 4/5/6/7 years time if I would be still alive that it will come back an haunt me. That, that I don't want of course Smiling (click to insert in post).

Which would mean, leaving on Sunday out of the Netherlands. And me actually stating that, is already pointing a interesting direction, as I wasn't really contemplating 24h ago, to be of existence on Sunday.

Other than that.

My looney ex BPD invited herself to my presentation of my research paper in July. My family will be there, I will have a friend there. They all know the story I 1) now am going through and 2) she will be there. A big fat uh-oh is in place there... .

How do you guys deal with the fact that you miss the drama of a BPD r/s? Because I do miss the drama, which is stupid. But I do miss it. I mean, I don't do anything. I mean I watch something, a movie, a tv-show and I basically end up crying in 20/30 or sometimes 40 minutes. Then I lay down my laptop again, and try to sleep a bit and watch something again.
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Surnia
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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 12:18:08 PM »

harm,

I am glad you are posting again. 

Why not travelling a bit? I do agree with you, sitting alone at home the whole day is a hard way. Poland is not too far, so just in case you can go back when ever you need it. A win win situation... .    
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“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 01:07:14 PM »



I think a bit of travel might be a good idea. But try to visit some new places - as well as ones with old memories. Just making a 'trip down memory lane' might not be the best idea.

Is there any way you can get more regular sessions scheduled with your therapist? Have you asked if this is possible?

WWT 
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 01:26:34 PM »

I think a bit of travel might be a good idea. But try to visit some new places - as well as ones with old memories. Just making a 'trip down memory lane' might not be the best idea.

Is there any way you can get more regular sessions scheduled with your therapist? Have you asked if this is possible?

WWT 

I did ask my current shrink. Unfortunately, he's getting more and more booked at the moment. Meaning, the time's between consult is increasing slightly. The only option he suggested is going for another intake process with another shrink, where he would be willing to share documents and medication files. However, my current shrink is on 3 minute walking distance from my house.
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Whatwasthat
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 02:05:26 PM »

I think a bit of travel might be a good idea. But try to visit some new places - as well as ones with old memories. Just making a 'trip down memory lane' might not be the best idea.

Is there any way you can get more regular sessions scheduled with your therapist? Have you asked if this is possible?

WWT  

I did ask my current shrink. Unfortunately, he's getting more and more booked at the moment. Meaning, the time's between consult is increasing slightly. The only option he suggested is going for another intake process with another shrink, where he would be willing to share documents and medication files. However, my current shrink is on 3 minute walking distance from my house.

OK - this is a difficult decision to make. Because ideally I do think you need a T  you can see 2 or 3 times a week - so maybe a change is appropriate.

Personally I wouldn't be influenced by the fact that the current T is very close to your house - unless any alternative therapists were a long way away - I don't think I would find that to be the most important factor. I would be more influenced by the fact that presumably you've built up a good relationship with your current T and it would be a shock to leave him.

Would it be possible to have two Ts for a while? A new one who you could see at least twice a week from the very beginning - while you gradually phased out sessions with your existing T? I wonder if that would be possible? It might make the transition feel more safe and secure for you. But please do get the advice of both your T  and GP on this.

WWT.  



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sad but wiser
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 02:10:03 PM »

Hello Harm,

I'm so sorry that your christian experiences were so legalistic and negative.  No wonder you have such difficulty in feeling loved.  I think a trip might be a very good thing for you.  How about something quite new, like France or Italy?  A tourist place, where there are lots of people having a new and exciting experience.  Somewhere with interesting things to look at and learn about, maybe somewhere sunny?  Sunshine lifts the spirits.  Please keep posting so that we know you are with us.  
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2013, 02:39:37 PM »

I think a bit of travel might be a good idea. But try to visit some new places - as well as ones with old memories. Just making a 'trip down memory lane' might not be the best idea.

Is there any way you can get more regular sessions scheduled with your therapist? Have you asked if this is possible?

WWT  

I did ask my current shrink. Unfortunately, he's getting more and more booked at the moment. Meaning, the time's between consult is increasing slightly. The only option he suggested is going for another intake process with another shrink, where he would be willing to share documents and medication files. However, my current shrink is on 3 minute walking distance from my house.

OK - this is a difficult decision to make. Because ideally I do think you need a T  you can see 2 or 3 times a week - so maybe a change is appropriate.

Personally I wouldn't be influenced by the fact that the current T is very close to your house - unless any alternative therapists were a long way away - I don't think I would find that to be the most important factor. I would be more influenced by the fact that presumably you've built up a good relationship with your current T and it would be a shock to leave him.

Would it be possible to have two Ts for a while? A new one who you could see at least twice a week from the very beginning - while you gradually phased out sessions with your existing T? I wonder if that would be possible? It might make the transition feel more safe and secure for you. But please do get the advice of both your T  and GP on this.

WWT.  

I agree on the necessary need of more T-visits. I really do. I can get another shrink, next to mine, no problem, however waiting lists are just long, and there just simply isn't anything around where I could have more visits than once a week . I already registered for a online consult shrink (it IS a registred shrink) and i'm looking for shrink possibilities with sooner possibilities for rehabilitation. In our country we have first/second line medical help and the current shrink i'm visiting, is already first line help! Can you imagine what second line would be in regards of waiting time.

And yes, i'm working on getting rid of my co-dependency issues with my ex, my FOO, my own self-confidence, my suicidal thoughts. However, the pace is just going slowly and i'm working on all of it, just a bit time by time and as you can read from my posts here. It isn't going quickly enough. My shrink realizes that and thats purely why I have the hotline option. But that's purely for emergency options.

I also have to admit, i'm ~ scared to travel (i'd love to travel before this). I mean, in the supermarket, I already have issues facing the cashier! I see couples with young kids and I feel like ... . I needed washing power? Screw the washing power ... . LETS GO HOME!

Now atleast I am in a place which I know ... . 'other' contact is something i'm sincerely afraid of. Again, I seriously see it a pure self-preservation method because i'm slowly sinking here. I purely do this because i'm afraid I might do something stupid here if I maintain here another 3 fraggin months.  :'( So what am I afraid of, purely the rejection. My ex told me i'm the worst walking here, and well, not worth jack sh!t. Going to a hostel, and not being able to blend in with others and just stay on my room on my own, well, that won't be better than staying here on my own.

But this ... . me staying at home? ... . this isn't helping either.

I will definitely keep this place as a lifeline when I'm going on travel.
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2013, 03:08:13 PM »



 Harm

It's good to know that you're on the waiting list for extra T sessions. You've done an impressive job of looking for all the help that's available and putting yourself in line to receive it.

I think it'll make a big difference once those extra sessions start.

It's hard to know if some travelling is the best idea or not. In my experience nowhere felt right for a long time - neither home or elsewhere. But it did help me to at least see different faces and landscapes - and to visit friends. So a short trip would probably be fine. But I would emphasise SHORT. Because the priority has to be to keep within reach of your GP right now so that they can monitor your anti-depressants - decide if they're going to reduce the Paxil or switch you onto new medication. It wouldn't seem like a great idea to be too far away from home while that's going on.

Are there some short weekend or 3-4 day trips that you could do?

And please respect your own vulnerability at the moment. It's natural to feel a bit agoraphobic when you've been through an experience like this (that feeling you describe in the supermarket is a good illustration of that). Try not to expect too much of yourself. It's good to go out and about and see new things - but don't be surprised if you feel fragile as you do it - that's OK.

In fact that would be my big message right now Harm. I know this doesn't feel OK - but actually it's all very normal and to be expected in the circumstances. You're going through a very unpleasant emotional experience that many on these boards have navigated. Look on it as a very rough sea voyage. It feels appalling - but there is firm land to look forward to at the end of the journey.

You're doing very well - it may not feel like it - but you are. WWT.   

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« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2013, 04:16:31 PM »

 Harm

It's good to know that you're on the waiting list for extra T sessions. You've done an impressive job of looking for all the help that's available and putting yourself in line to receive it.

I think it'll make a big difference once those extra sessions start.

I really hope so

Excerpt
It's hard to know if some travelling is the best idea or not. In my experience nowhere felt right for a long time - neither home or elsewhere. But it did help me to at least see different faces and landscapes - and to visit friends. So a short trip would probably be fine. But I would emphasise SHORT. Because the priority has to be to keep within reach of your GP right now so that they can monitor your anti-depressants - decide if they're going to reduce the Paxil or switch you onto new medication. It wouldn't seem like a great idea to be too far away from home while that's going on.

Are there some short weekend or 3-4 day trips that you could do?

U are so right, I just headed back to bed. I was feeling relatively okay for a few hours, thinking about the possibility of a trip. I go back to bed, I end up crying again. It's friday evening, my ex is partying probably till saturday afternoon (itll all be over facebook) and having fun and me, me is sitting here in his bed all alone crying yet again. It feels so unfair. It's definitely two different ways of grieving. But goodness, I was hoping not to feel any suicidal contemplations anymore at least till tmorrow but I hit my bed and it sunk in again. what the heck am I doing it for, and u wrote it so nicely, nowhere felt right for a long time. It doesn't. It seriously doesn't.

I'm so fragile

If I ever get out of this, also what I told my shrink, we are going to fortify that door with iron, steel, bricks, glue, everything. This door of pain will never get opened like this again. I definitely can't face this level of pain ever again. Never.

Excerpt
And please respect your own vulnerability at the moment. It's natural to feel a bit agoraphobic when you've been through an experience like this (that feeling you describe in the supermarket is a good illustration of that). Try not to expect too much of yourself. It's good to go out and about and see new things - but don't be surprised if you feel fragile as you do it - that's OK.

In fact that would be my big message right now Harm. I know this doesn't feel OK - but actually it's all very normal and to be expected in the circumstances. You're going through a very unpleasant emotional experience that many on these boards have navigated. Look on it as a very rough sea voyage. It feels appalling - but there is firm land to look forward to at the end of the journey.

You're doing very well - it may not feel like it - but you are. WWT.   

Thanks Smiling (click to insert in post) it definitely doesn't always feel like. But hey I keep trying. I think my aim would be to start more therapy in order to decrease the suicidal tendencies. If that can decrease, in whatever way possible, it be what I need.
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« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2013, 07:28:09 PM »

Harm, it broke my heart to read this from you:

Excerpt
Now atleast I am in a place which I know ... . 'other' contact is something i'm sincerely afraid of. Again, I seriously see it a pure self-preservation method because i'm slowly sinking here. I purely do this because i'm afraid I might do something stupid here if I maintain here another 3 fraggin months.   So what am I afraid of, purely the rejection. My ex told me i'm the worst walking here, and well, not worth jack sh!t.

She had no right to run you down so much.  No one here is rejecting you, and we are real people.  You can rationalize that away, but the reality is, we know you better than people in the store do, and we are sincerely worried about you and are very much wanting you to recover from this!  Maybe you need to come to America for a trip.  Right now, at least, you can get in to see a Therapist right away... .   you just pay cash.

America?  America?  That would mean sitting on a plane... .   yes, I know you are not feeling ready for that yet.  I really wish you the best.  Please keep posting.
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« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2013, 07:48:08 PM »

Harm, it broke my heart to read this from you:

Excerpt
Now atleast I am in a place which I know ... . 'other' contact is something i'm sincerely afraid of. Again, I seriously see it a pure self-preservation method because i'm slowly sinking here. I purely do this because i'm afraid I might do something stupid here if I maintain here another 3 fraggin months.   So what am I afraid of, purely the rejection. My ex told me i'm the worst walking here, and well, not worth jack sh!t.

She had no right to run you down so much.  No one here is rejecting you, and we are real people.  You can rationalize that away, but the reality is, we know you better than people in the store do, and we are sincerely worried about you and are very much wanting you to recover from this!  Maybe you need to come to America for a trip.  Right now, at least, you can get in to see a Therapist right away... .   you just pay cash.

America?  America?  That would mean sitting on a plane... .   yes, I know you are not feeling ready for that yet.  I really wish you the best.  Please keep posting.

Thanks my dear. After feeling okay for a few hours in the afternoon, 'thinking about' going for a trip, and looking it up. It actually made me feel good. Then I went to bed and i've been lying in bed for the last 4 hours not being able to fall asleep (It,s 2.37 AM where I live) and then emotions kick in again and all the screwed up thoughts again hit your head. End it... . End it ... . GO AWAY.

Seriously, if, and IF i get out of this mess, I wouldn't mind thinking about some sort of BPD awareness center in Europe. The pain caused by this illness to loved ones is ridiculous. Through a dutch online forum i've met a guy who actually went through 3(!) BPD r/s break ups and is now utterly broken. Through a centralized point, help would be guided so much better and more efficient. I've spent a long time last hour in bed just reading through topics here and the familiarity is just crazy. It's crazy. It's like you see your own life rewritten so many times by other people who witnessed it in a different country, maybe in a different language, but same actions and pain.

I just took my benzo pill to sleep again (I don't want to take to many as they are addictive) and hopefully I will fall asleep. Life shouldn't be a struggle this way. What is there to become of me? I'm 25 and I can't even picture myself as a 40 year old with a few kids living happily. Heck, I can't even picture myself in 3 months time(!) 

Bless you all people. I hate life : (
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2013, 07:56:46 PM »

Sweet drams, dear young man.  Only 25?  It is way too early to throw in the towel!  A center for BPD awareness and healing is a great idea!  I bet it would help a great many people.

It is very strange that all of the stories are so alike.  I always thought of people as being like snowflakes - each one different.  In these relationships, they are so similar.  It is a puzzle, isn't it?
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« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 11:25:14 PM »

Sweet drams, dear young man.  Only 25?  It is way too early to throw in the towel!  A center for BPD awareness and healing is a great idea!  I bet it would help a great many people.

It is very strange that all of the stories are so alike.  I always thought of people as being like snowflakes - each one different.  In these relationships, they are so similar.  It is a puzzle, isn't it?

  :'(

Ive been awake since 4am and reading this board for the last 2 hours. Its now past 6am and I can already hear the birds yelping, squerping, whatever that high pitchy sound while I was planning to fly somewhere sunday night for a few days couchsurfing but still have to proper sleep. The birds make me sad and just ... .

Whats the point man. Whats the point to continue? Whats the point of me waking up in a few hours and go sleep at a couch of a complete stranger? Whats the point... . I know im bound to think this way due to my burnout and let the pain succumb me so i can process it better ... . But whats the point? I dont want to wake up.

Ive read quite a few articles on how long people deal with the full extend of this BPD recovery and for some ot takes years. The mere prospect of feeling this, the way I feel right now for another 2 weeks is already to much to bear. And yes, i shouldnt take it week by week, i should take it minute by minute... . but my goodness. I ... . I just do not want to wake up anymore.

(Am still on my paxil, slowly decreasing dose so i can quit and try something else)
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« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2013, 11:39:42 PM »

It sounds like some rest would help right now. 

I care about you, and I'm wishing you well.  The darkness will not last forever.  Keep walking, and this too shall pass.  I promise.
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 03:40:48 PM »

I'm glad you are taking the advice about the Paxil.  Isn't it ironic that antidepressants can make you more depressed?
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 05:12:00 PM »

I'm glad you are taking the advice about the Paxil.  Isn't it ironic that antidepressants can make you more depressed?

It is.

And as addition to that. Harm is flying away to a foreign country within 2 days, to couch surf there with some complete random strangers for quite a few days. Why? Because staying here, in the Netherlands is not going to do me any good and i'll make sure that I come back for my next therapy appointment.
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 05:41:00 PM »

I can almost feel you through your posts, it is quite intense. My advise for you is that you talk to God. You might find the advise ridiculous, but keep it with you still, and use it when you need it. Trust me miracles do happen, you just have a veil over your eyes and lies told to you by your thoughts right now, fight them!   
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 05:53:36 PM »

I can almost feel you through your posts, it is quite intense. My advise for you is that you talk to God. You might find the advise ridiculous, but keep it with you still, and use it when you need it. Trust me miracles do happen, you just have a veil over your eyes and lies told to you by your thoughts right now, fight them!   

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately I was raised by one side of the family as non-christians (father) and the other side very strong orthodox christian (mother) as my parents seperated at a young age.

Meaning, when I was at one side of the family, I had to go to church twice on Sunday, was not allowed to watch TV on sunday, nor do homework on Sunday, nor take a nap during the day (also not the monday - friday) and had to socialize with other people from the church.

What happened when Harm hit into puberty? He went against both thoughts, so he just decided to move to a different country on his own and I just read the bible completely back to forth and wasn't quite sure what to think of it. When just a week ago I had my strongest suicidal contemplation, I did pray. But i'm unfortunate (and feeling a tad guilty) to say that I prayed for him to stop my pain (as in, not to wake up). Because dying in ur sleep, would mean not having to deal with a suicide, and not a people being upset for yourself taking your own life.

However, I sincerely do appreciate your comment! Hope I didn't offend anyone with this. It was already strange being in between a superb strong christian side of the family and one other side who, well, clearly didn't care one tad at all. And I was always the little pawn in between.
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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2013, 06:46:05 PM »

It just feels so utterly pointless to continue. I've had a little touch of contact just not to long ago today (breach I know, stupid) and it just feels right back at where it all started. Triggerfest I would call it.

Whats the point man, whats the point to continue? It's not that i'm completely devastated about my loss with her, although I am in a way, I'm physically and mentally drained till the utter bone. Not only does it not feel good to do something, I noticed or more or less was overwhelmed by the uselessness of it. My ex ... . man oh man. Did I just live in a dream for the last few years and did I just wake up?

I feel i've pushed 60 years in 4 years, where I had a successful career, top uni and lived together with a r/s. I had it all. Now i'm in some farmland far away from everything trying to put the puzzle pieces back together. And although I know deep inside, I could get all this back, in a different country, under different circumstances. I don't feel it as a challenge. So I ask myself, i've tried those, what else is there to try? I feel i've got nowhere else to run. I just rather close my account here, forget about it all, and just hope I wont wake up tomorrow.

If I had a button to dissolve, it'd push it right now. Meaning, it's time to grab my phone again. It's not that im weeping of depression, I just feel literally no point to continue.

How thick, is that brick wall in front of my face? I can only image my shrink and maybe some of you here sometimes feels it's made of some mixture of platonium mixed with steel and diamond or something. My goodness... .

I despise the day I was introduced to 'personality disorders'.

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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2013, 07:29:17 PM »

Dont let her and her disorder beat you mate! You are so much better than that and you know it! Each dark day you are going through right now will be rewarded to you at a later date in your life!

I have high hopes for your future Harm. So should you!
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« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2013, 10:51:35 AM »

I have a very dear friend who had a similar experience in the Greek church she grew up in. She felt always scolded by the old ladies and not welcome to just be a child. Plus, she did not speak Greek and could not understand the services. My experience with Orthodoxy has been different, so it is not that way everywhere, but I have seen the same attitudes in plenty of other denominations and even other religions. It is always unfortunate when legalism puts out the spark of faith, whatever that faith may be. I am thinking of something Ghandi said about how he respected our Christ but not our Christians. At any rate, I am sorry your experience in the church felt so oppressive. The God of Orthodoxy is compassionate and merciful, so should be His people.

If you have a Bible nearby and feel open to reading it, maybe some time in the Psalms would be helpful. Or, even just sitting in the back of a church and listening during a quieter service like Vespers or Orthros (or whatever is said where you are). Personally, I often just take a few minutes and look at an icon of the Theotokos. Certainly you do not have to do any of that... .   but it may be worth a try. I know when I was depressed I was not sure I even believed in God anymore, and I had always been very devout. I discovered I did not have to believe in God for Him to believe in me.

Whatever you choose spiritually speaking, just know we are thinking of you and cheering for you. I think getting out of your apartment for a little trip is a great idea and I hope it refreshes you a little. It is good to see you making plans.

Today I saw some fabric I thought was really beautiful. Have you found beauty today?

PF
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« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2013, 11:13:38 AM »

Hi Harmkrakow

I am an atheist but I find peace in churches at times. I think PF Change is very wise.

I have seen a few flashes of hope in your posts over the last couple of days and it has given me some happiness to see that. I care that you will get through this because I believe you have great things to offer this world. It is not often I see a person with such depth of insight and understanding into the human condition at such a young age. I also believe that such understanding is  difficult to bear and I am so sorry that the pain is so great.

You are also offering great support and insight to others on these boards and that is invaluable. So many people here want you to live because we know that there is a recovered Harmkrakow on the other side. I know that you cannot see that. I understand that the darkness feels too much. I don't mean I feel your pain or get how you are feeling but I have known people who have been suicidal and who have died and I have known those who have recovered and come through it. I have known people who woke up after attempts devastated that the attempt failed. But everyone of those recovered to a place where they knew absolutely that they wanted to be alive and were so, so thankful that it hadn't worked.

Please hang in there and keep posting. Wanting the pain to stop is not a reason to die although I do know that it feels like it is. Please stay with us, day by day.

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« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2013, 02:24:23 PM »

Very good Harm!  Just make sure you make it back from that road trip  rested or tired in a good way.  No silly or reckless behavior, if you please!  Okay, a little bit silly would probably be good for you.  Keep in touch or I will worry!
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2013, 03:06:13 PM »

Harmkrakow,

Remember there is beauty and wonder in the world. I hope you can find some today. I'm remembering a poem that I ran into in a book by Thich Nhat Hanh (A Buddhist monk from Vietnam)

Excerpt
I have lost my smile,

but don't worry.

The dandelion has it.

Keep looking--something or someone is holding your smile for you. I hope to hear that you find it on your travels in the next few days.
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« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2013, 03:37:03 PM »

That is an awesome quote, Grey Kitty.  I read an excellent book by Thich Nhat Hanh on Anger... .

Harmkrakow,  So much of what we feel is related to our perception, imho.  This is not necessarily easy to practice, as I've experienced, and as you are experiencing!
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« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2013, 03:40:08 AM »



Have a great time on the trip Harm. But do remember to send us a virtual 'post card' or we'll all be upset!

   WWT.
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« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2013, 09:41:34 AM »

Have a great time on the trip Harm. But do remember to send us a virtual 'post card' or we'll all be upset!

   WWT.

Ill post a an actual photo. Most of this board are americans and the majority havent been to eastern europe. 1+1=2 Ill drop a few. It's a good obligation to come back here.

Have to say i'm ~less scared though, but my therapist, doctor, and even you guys stand behind it. And in a way it shows courage. Who would go to a place where they barely speak english, don't speak the language at the depth of their depression all to "respark" my engine and hopefully life will show me that it's worth fighting for.

It also confirms to me that im not going to wait to recover from this years to come. Whats the point in doing so? I see people here still being hurt 2 or 3 years after a break up. Being scarred, wounded. That won't be me. Either i'm going to process it and bash through it or pull the plug. The prospect of being miserable for months let alone years to come, mourn during Holidays because your alone and think about "what could have been" will literally kill me. I don't see the point. Of course I will give myself time, I will try what I can to respark my engine and thank my therapist, doc, this board and some individual users here helping along. Feeling guilt for something you could do, always helps to prevent.

It's not being depressed as hurt per se, but purely a faded interest in life (of course the major shame and guilt is still knacking my shoulders). I rather live a short life well taken care of than a long life in complete misery and pain and being attached or dependent on anti depressants. Many of you here take energy and rest from a higher power, I don't yet, however what isn't there yet can always come.

I feel so utterly stupid for being fooled by a disorder who took 2 years of my life, which I obviously allowed. The worst thing a person can do to you is take your time conciously, the second would be allowing someone to take your precious time, and thats eaxctly where a BPD breakup is categorized. Im never going to get my time back, that hurts through to the inner core. Meeting a BPD is like the financial crisis, you know you can't maintain it and you try million ways to get out of it as neat as possible but still inflict major damage along and in the end. People often say, just learn and move on. You have learned from a BPD break up. It is yet beyond me why I feel life has no point continuing after this break while all other breaks had none of these issues. Oh wait I do, all other breaks didn't end in smear campaigns, immature behavior, raging, blaming, no allowance to actually heal and recover.

Im not going out for the sake of going out, because that does not carry any weight. I don't drink for the sake of drinking. I know people, a lot of people who do things purely because its either what their peers do, or what they feel they must be doing. If often comes to a few who rule a big group and others who follow and next to that the others who feel therefore pressured in following that way. People who smash or hurt others just because they don't move along with their peers and all they say; "whats wrong with you" are people who live so much in fog it's ridiculous. I refuse to follow that path. I can't be bothered with that anymore. Do what you desire, not what your neigbour does. It's one of the reasons why so many people got into major debts. They see their neigbour getting a big plasma tv and decide they want 1 too... . Which is all fueled by todays screwed up modern sense of technology like facebook and linkedin where it's all thrown into your face ... . Which in essence created this website!

I currently live my life with a morbid instinct as I treat everyday as one that could be my last. I don't do this intentionally but inconciously as my brain doesn't feel challenged to pursue something. Whats the difference between crying in bed in your home or being in a house with a bunch of strangers miles away from any place where you would feel secure? Tomorrow will tell.
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« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2013, 01:55:39 PM »

Excerpt
People who smash or hurt others just because they don't move along with their peers and all they say; "whats wrong with you" are people who live so much in fog it's ridiculous. I refuse to follow that path. I can't be bothered with that anymore. Do what you desire, not what your neigbour does.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)   
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