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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: After that phone call, it literally felt like a spike straight through my heart  (Read 2677 times)
HarmKrakow
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« on: March 27, 2013, 05:00:52 PM »

I have to write off again, I’m sorry folks.

Last few days have been one hell of a sick train ride (Sick/puking/bed/crying/shower for 3 hours... ). Got the flu, it’s seriously cold here in the Netherlands (especially for the time of the year :X)

She (ex) called last Monday because she wanted a receipt from me which would show her I paid for her outstanding debt for psychological consults she had. She then blames me for throwing away something so beautiful and that I hurt her deeply, I started to cry on the phone telling her that I never wanted any of this to unfold this way and then she got mad at me saying: if I cry she will feel guilty, (So stop crying harm!) she says she is scarred for life, how can she ever trust someone again? She told me; Harm, you have really, really hurt me. If someone like you, who has treated me so good ... because we had something good Harm, how can I ever trust someone gain? Coming from someone who was sexually and physically abused in a longer relationship than we had where they tried more than we tried in ours, and, I never laid a finger on her, never hit her and never raged at her or slammed doors, thrown things, yelled or whatever, and I’ve endured it all from her without exploding once (she did rage, my goodness). And she is very grateful to me about that, that I treated her so well and always was so selfless and that I’ve never done anything wrong to hit her and was there to help her... and she misses that so dearly. Also the intimacy...

To be hearing that, still a bit of the old gf, the new ex, and some disorders in there, the contradictions, the mal-wiring basically is so skull splitting, I need to stop trying to make sense of the chaos.

If something like the figurative speech of; “nail in a coffin” would exist, that would be it. That would be it ladies and gentlemen. After that phone call, it literally felt like a spike straight through my heart. I felt I broke again.

As some of you might know, I quit my job last Friday, meaning, I didn’t have to work on Monday and that feeling on its own, is, weird. I felt I had to relive the entire breakup of the r/s and the entire last few months which have been complete and utter hell. Being at home, tied in bed, was a complete trigger fest of the previous r/s. It was a literal trigger fest. I realized the ‘role’ of my work the last few months. It literally replaced those triggers. Although, I didn’t feel happy at work either. I didn’t feel satisfied. I felt no connection with anyone besides seeing someone as a colleague. I did the work, beyond perfection, my colleagues and superiors were happy with the work I’ve delivered, but the atmosphere, the attitude, the expectations, the 80h + more weeks, the no social life (not that I have one now either) and the beyond shallow conversations felt to me like, this, this is not it. This is not making me happy. What am I doing this for? I can’t live like this for the rest of my life; you have people almost living at work. It felt like such a waste of such precious time of life.

I been walking up and down the stairs many times that evening already tried a knot in a bed sheet to check how it feels, however, it felt just awkward. Knowing it could end just by the click of your fingers.  

Every time the emotion gets too much to me, like when the alarm bells go ringing off in my head I watch this video to keep telling myself, I am not the crazy one.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE

This video is very helpful when I struggle with suicidal contemplation throughout the day. The video basically tells me, that when I feel so ~ and my intentions to take the end of my life, those thoughts are right, but it’s my misconception that it is ME who thinks that way, but something I should take control of. I know it might sound like a bit jibberish, but (besides my hotline with the shrink) the thing I watch to sort of confirm myself that is it not me, who is the crazy one and that the pain I’m suffering is not ‘crazy’ is something for me which remains important to understand.

I’ve had therapy since October, I’ve been diagnosed with depression and a burnout, they’ve dug into my past and I’ve done testing and I’m free off all the other crap, he actually says with my intelligence I should be able to kick it quite far in today’s society. However, they are not sure whether or not to put  ‘shock’ of trauma of how this r/s ended with an outcome close towards PTSD, or beginning PTSD. Of course I’ve done tests for over a long period now and mostly what comes out of it that my self-confidence declines and my paranoia increases. I think too much with my brain and feel too little with my eyes, nose and fingers.

Then I go to the supermarket, the only trip I have besides going to the bathroom. I see people laugh, I see the same people I already see the for over 10  years, they still put a smile on their face, I see couples, enjoying themselves, I see people my ages, with just a baby or kids of 2/3 years old and I see so much little joy, the sun (although blistering cold) and it’s only giving me pain. It actually adds to the pain. If I think of myself working in a supermarket, I would be sincerely depressed, I would not be able to achieve satisfaction out of such a job, but still, as I tell my shrink, I feel ashamed for not being able to do so, seeing the laugh on their faces while I knew if I had to do such work it drive me crazy. (they would never employ me with my CV for such a job).

Therefore it comes to the ancient old question, what do you want to do? As shown in the video I showed before, I feel a little the same, I feel like I have nowhere to run anymore and therefore/thus I feel the power to continue slipping away. Yes, I do struggle for my senses and belief in this world. I literally feel not that I’m just ‘not worth it being here’, but also feel like I have nothing to contribute and above that, I’ve had my chance. I’ve had my chance and I blew it, because I’ve already been once on top, I’ve worked in a top class firm, and was on top of my class and had (as what I thought) the r/s to get old with. Now months later all is gone and that, dying of a dream, as he suggested. That dying of a dream feels like a little part of you is literally getting cut of your body. And when you cut something off, a scar remains, it’s up to me if I consider that scar a wound which will kill me or something I bear with me for the rest of my life.

Besides that video I watch when I feel like pulling the plug, there’s another one about; what DO you want to do in life. What do you want to do? Where do you get pleasure from? Where do you gain from in life? Satisfaction?  www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L_cGjQSR80 I watch it to give me the confirmation that it was the right choice to end my last job as I didn’t like it, I didn’t like to do that job. It feels kinship, hearing someone else tell you, it’s stupid to do something you don’t like doing. It’s so simple, but it’s also a simple truth. I don't like life atm, so why continue?

Please people, can you tell me, can you please tell me what drives you in your life, also in addition to that post? Please answer the following questions to help out me. What pushes you out of bed in the morning? What drives you to pursue your activities throughout the day and what do you live for? As I’ve watched the video many, many times. I feel completely the same in regards of; nowhere else to run anymore. Nowhere. I’ve went abroad, I’ve moved around, I’ve tried different hobbies over the past and I thought I had it all together and now it all shattered into little pieces where I seem to, even after the break up, can’t do anything good. I felt my time has come.

I regret I quit work (confronting the pain and misery of the break up is agonizingly horrifying) and although I’m planning a road trip to America, I wonder, what for? I’ll have an interesting time for a few weeks, will meet a few new people, but I will still end up here again, if not in 1 month, definitely in 2 months. It does not feel constructive.

Last Tuesday, I sort of blew the whistle. I was upping the dosage of my anti-depressants (Paxil), I had quite a few cough drinks (Codeine) for my cold, was using melatonin and temazepam to fall asleep. I drank it with a few shots of vodka, while having the flu. I knew on forehand that these medicines have a strengthening effect on each other while being used together. I did this not to harm myself, but to feel less pain as it numbs the nerve system and that entire day i've felt immaculately crap, I’ve been trying all sorts of things to get any trigger OR thought about my ex AWAY, about what we shared together in the past, say hobby, books, the way we see life, the way we want to deal with life gone!. I literally cried in the shower, purely saying to myself, please get out of my head (ex-name). I go to my shrink with all these stories, and he refers it to heavy detoxing from a, already quite toxic relationship. It’s like cutting an onion, every layer you reach something nasty, and as you quit work, these layers are coming a bit quicker. Considering the dosis I was under that evening, I felt numb and above all, (this is the way people turn to be alcoholics, or addicted to drugs or meds) to constantly use this combination to run away, to fly away from the pain. I know, above all that what I did that night was purely flight behavior. Although my shrink/GP feel completely confident prescribing me medications as they don't see me as someone who would get addicted to this (I never smoked nor did drugs, I don't drink a lot, besides the last few days but that's purely as a sleeping tip, not throughout the day). I've had severe medications before, but was always strong enough to say, enough is enough.

During 1am in the night when I woke up, I felt so crap and so numb in my head, that I scribbled a little ‘end note’ where I wrote 7 names. I felt so numb in my head and literally thought when I laid down this letter on the floor, this ... this could be it. This is what I was waiting for ... When I was writing it, life did flash in front of my eyes, I thought about all my ex-relationships, the relationship with my mother, my father, the good things that happened in my life, the people I’ve helped, the good I produced, the mistakes I’ve made in life, the things I regret and would have done different and ending with the thought, I’ve definitely helped a few in my life and I go out on a high. I've got a few thing I can be proud of and it felt, life has been okay you know? I went back to bed and woke up feeling relatively fine. No hangover, no nothing. I read the note and saw I wrote down the name of my father, my ex, 3 lifelong friends and an American couple which has been mailing me asking how I am holding up and wanting me to go for this American road trip. It’s very interesting to see when your not completely sober, and write such a letter, what you write down, to who, and what you write.

Today, after I woke up, I couldn’t stand the light in the room, I left my bedroom, moved my bed into the bathroom (only place without a window) closed the light and continued sleeping from 10 to 3 in the afternoon. Again, crying in the bathroom asking politely for my thoughts to go away, being at home is a trigger fest of my ex, and that part is over.

Again, I’m sitting here, writing this on Wednesday evening and still feel, my time has come. I don’t know where to run anymore. I’ve had awesome r/s, I’ve had awesome work and I’ve excelled at school. What else is there for me to achieve? To pursue? My GP keeps telling me, keep holding on there, keep hanging in there until another 2 weeks so we are sure the Paxil is working, but still ... I have the feeling it s with my head.

Making sense of chaos and the anti-depressants screwing with my head reminds me of a trick my Therapist exposed me with easily.

He asked me, Harm, what do you see here? (he was showing me the painting) You have an exam, and this is the only question on your exam.



I told him, well,    I saw an eye, and a red-eye brush, probably someone sad or angry, showing red eyebrows... and the blueish dots next to the eye could indicate tears and crying.

The shrink looked at me and said, you failed miserably. If this WAS your exam, you would have gotten a 0/100. What you see here is a painting, it’s paper with paint. That ... is ... it. You let your mind fill in the blanks straight away, you need to stop it …

Harmkrakow,

What helped me recently is OTH's suggestion in this thread to watch Brene Brown's talks on YouTube. She was just on Oprah's Super Soul Sunday also which I watched on the internet. She talks about how when we are vulnerable and telling someone who listens and validates, then that's when the most meaningful connections can be made between people... . we all want to be understood. This makes a big difference in our day. Asking for help, sharing your feelings is absolutely a strength and your thread here has helped me, though you have no way of knowing that til now.

Thanks for the post, I’ve watched the TED youtube clips of Brene Browns’ and it mostly just reminds me of what my shrink tells me every week… It’s interesting, it’s something I agree upon, it’s something I definitely have interest in but it’s not something I would not have disagreed with anyway. To me it does not shed light upon this topic differently. Nonetheless, still interesting that’s for sure.

I'm now off to bed again. Hopefully, hopefully there will be a time where I can tell you guys, you know what, it was ridiculous that I looked at life that way.

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Phoenix.Rising
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 05:38:11 PM »

Dear Harmkrakow, 

Don't be embarrassed or afraid to check yourself to a psychiatric inpatient unit if need be.  I'll share some personal information.  I spent some time in inpatient treatment for suicidal ideation after a divorce in 2001.  I went in on the suggestion of a very close friend.  I was not in there long, but they were able to get me stabilized.  It was not an easy road out of the fog, but I made it through.  There were other contributing factors, which I won't go into, but the point I'm making is that it helped me.  I was provided around the clock care by professionals who deal with these situations on a daily basis.  Even if it's five days, or a week or two, the difference made can be significant.  I have not experienced depression at that level in some time now.  I do not take any medication for depression now, nor do I need to.

What gets me out of bed?  I enjoy my work.  I enjoy my house.  I enjoy my friends.  I enjoy my recovery networks.  I enjoy my sobriety.  I enjoy nature.  I enjoy a relationship with a higher power.  I enjoy exercise.  I enjoy imagining a better future.  I enjoy creativity, and music, and humor, and laughter, and children, and animals, and riding my motorcycle, and looking at the stars and the full moon last night, and my family, and the flowers that are starting to bloom in my front yard, and my colleagues at work, and eating a good meal, and watching good films, and water, and hot baths, and candles, and knowing that I am going to be OK regardless of what happens in this strange and beautiful world.  I also realize today that life is very short, and I want to make the very best of it while I am here.  I enjoy listening to older people tell me about their life experiences.  Hang tough.
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2013, 05:50:18 PM »

Dear Harmkrakow, 

Don't be embarrassed or afraid to check yourself to a psychiatric inpatient unit if need be.  I'll share some personal information.  I spent some time in inpatient treatment for suicidal ideation after a divorce in 2001.  I went in on the suggestion of a very close friend.  I was not in there long, but they were able to get me stabilized.  It was not an easy road out of the fog, but I made it through.  There were other contributing factors, which I won't go into, but the point I'm making is that it helped me.  I was provided around the clock care by professionals who deal with these situations on a daily basis.  Even if it's five days, or a week or two, the difference made can be significant.  I have not experienced depression at that level in some time now.  I do not take any medication for depression now, nor do I need to.

I already discussed this with T but unfortunately, where I come from, it works a tad difference, also in regards of insurance and waiting lists which is incredibly long in this country. I will check it out again but unfortunately, our country is just not very big on rehab (psych/drugs/alcohol) centers and immediate psychological help.

Excerpt
What gets me out of bed?  I enjoy my work.  I enjoy my house.  I enjoy my friends.  I enjoy my recovery networks.  I enjoy my sobriety.  I enjoy nature.  I enjoy a relationship with a higher power.  I enjoy exercise.  I enjoy imagining a better future.  I enjoy creativity, and music, and humor, and laughter, and children, and animals, and riding my motorcycle, and looking at the stars and the full moon last night, and my family, and the flowers that are starting to bloom in my front yard, and my colleagues at work, and eating a good meal, and watching good films, and water, and hot baths, and candles, and knowing that I am going to be OK regardless of what happens in this strange and beautiful world.  I also realize today that life is very short, and I want to make the very best of it while I am here.  I enjoy listening to older people tell me about their life experiences.  Hang tough.

Thanks for so much positivism in just a few sentences Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 12:42:40 AM »

I have had a rough life and am not embarrassed to admit that at the end of my marriage I checked myself into the hospital due to suicidal thoughts and depression. It was a very short visit as the doctor listened to me and told me I didn't need to stay because I was suffering from a broken heart and not  a mental illness. I went to therapy and tried anti-depressants but the medication wasn't the magic bullet I had hoped it would be, other than dulling the senses. The T helped me to understand that I had to work through the emotional pain... . that medication would carry me to a point but only so far as I had to grieve my losses and medication would help but not solve the deeper sadness I was feeling. Fast forward a few years and I got sucked into a a relationship with a NPD, and all the old sadness arrived and had to be reworked. During the dark times, I felt as though the sadness would never go away and I would remain broken... but I was mistaken. So, in answer to your question, here goes... .

Excerpt
Please people, can you tell me, can you please tell me what drives you in your life, also in addition to that post?

What drives me is a sense of purpose in life. The purpose is I discovered the unfinished dreams I had for myself in childhood and I put those dreams into action. Painting, writing, working out, working with children in an elementary school slowly began to fill in the dark places that resided in my soul like a phantom ghost. I just made myself do it, even on the days I wanted to pull the covers up over my head and beg for release. Slowly, I stopped feeling that way, a few minutes turned into a few hours, then days, weeks, and now today, every day, there is joy in getting up and being present in the moment. When I teach a student to read, or to solve a math problem and I witness the sense of accomplishment that comes over their face, wow... . I know that right at that moment, I made a difference in the life of a child.

Excerpt
  Please

answer the following questions to help out me. What pushes you out of bed in the morning? [/quote

Appreciation for the small things, a GREAT cup of coffee on a drizzly morning, the warmth of my slippers treading down the hallway, a warm shower and good smelling soap. My senses are alive with the sights and smells of a day filled with promise. And when my heart lifts... I appreciate that it does and warmth fills me up and gives me a sense of peace. The sadness is at bay, every day is a small gift.

Sometimes, a small student in the kindergarten classes will unexpectedly give me a hug, or brush their precious little hand across my face and they break into a beautiful smile and ohhh... . how sweet those smiles. Recently a little girl grieving the death of her mother snuggled up to me and said "I am so happy right now Miss C because I know you love me". And I told her that she was right, I love her high as the sky and as deep as the ocean. And when such moments occur, the sad person that checked herself into the hospital is a distant memory but gosh, one to be honored because that sadness and the lessons I learned about life and hope created such empathy and compassion in me for others and now, myself.

Excerpt
]What drives you to pursue your activities throughout the day and what do you live for

I started hiking in the woods and getting out in nature, surrounded by the forest is as close to God as I can get, I go not only for the exercise but to enjoy what is yet to be discovered, a small animal, a budding flower, an unfurling fern rising out of the soil.

My friends calling me up for a cup of coffee or coming over for dinner to try a new recipe (yes, I love to cook for people), the sounds of my grandchildren playing on the beach and me pushing them on a rope swing... all these things fill me with happiness. I think I live now to experience life, not watch it on television, or a movie (although I do those things, too) but to figure out a destination of interest (museum or a book store) and I go exploring.

Sometimes, I volunteer at the local homeless shelter-serving coffee, fixing a meal, working on fund raising and every time I come away believing that the most important thing in life is our connections. For a long time I lost that connection with myself and others and slowly found my core again... and you will too. 

C

C
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Surnia
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 01:39:20 AM »

Harm

I feel always some relief, when I see you here on the board or even more when I read something new. And your question about "What gets me out of bed?" could even be a new interesting thread.

You are suffering from deep depression and burnout. Right now you are suffering from a serious illness. My thoughts goes in a similar direction like Phoenix. You need care. You need professionals around you. They can give you also some rhythm in your day, activities, therapy, whatever.

Your situation right now, being alone in your apartment, with your meds, without anyone, without a pet is the damn hard way. Perhaps even too hard.

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“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 06:13:42 AM »

Hi Harm   to you.

Well done for getting through these last few days - which sound like they've been the toughest of your life.

I bet your T is right - that leaving work has meant that you've been forced to come up against your pain much more completely - and that that is why it hurts so incredibly right now. But this does not mean that it would have been better to carry on in your job. That might well have led to greater stresses building up inside - particularly given the punishing schedule of your work. So I would advise not wasting too much time worrying about that.

A lot of people have wisely suggested that you ought to seek out some very solid support right now. And you've said that it's hard to get access to an inpatient facility in your home country. I had a couple of thoughts about that.

1) Do you have the finances to pay for private care - either in your own country or somewhere else? It would be important to find a facility that your T or GP could recommend - as I'm sure they vary tremendously in quality -  one or other of them might even be able to research that for you. Or maybe you could consult the information on this board about support that's available outside your home country.

2) I couldn't get inpatient support either when I felt suicidal and deeply depressed. It simply wasn't available to me. I was able to go to a local hospital and see an emergency GP who prescribed medication - but no more than that. So instead I did what I wrote about before - I went to stay with different sets of friends for short periods of time. I found that it helped - because like you I couldn't bear the associations in my own apartment. And what worked even better sometimes was when friends would come and stay for a few days with me. It helped to 'clean' out the old distressing associations in my home and make some new, more positive ones. It was also important simply not to be alone too much. I knew I was getting better when my apartment really started to feel like 'home' again and I no longer felt I had to restlessly travel around seeking company.

You know I think once you tackle this depression - and possible PTSD - you will find that naturally you will start to remember what it is in life that is worthwhile and joyful and keeps you going. It's just that your body, brain and emotions have gone into crisis right now and temporarily can't access those things. It doesn't mean that any of them have gone away. Or that you no longer have the capacity for the love of life - it's still there - it's just got horribly obscured for a while.

I wonder if you've tried any physical therapies during this time to support you? What's available where you live? Two things that helped me were reflexology and cranio-sacral osteopathy. I had to pay for them myself but they played a big part in  re-balancing all my systems and  slowly getting me out of crisis mode and back on track. And don't be embarrassed if you burst into tears on the reflexology coach - lots of people do it and I think they're used to it!

Please remember. This IS a crisis. It's not an indication that everything about you and your life is wrong or worthless. That somehow the whole world is a mess and will never be OK again. Your own thoughts are playing tricks on  you right now and making you believe that the way you feel is the product of some appalling, massive problem that has no solution. That is  not the case at all. It's just that you now need maximum help and resources to work your way through it. It's a battle that needs to be fought so you can come out the other side. Of course there will be work to be done to help you learn from all of this once you're through the darkest days. But right now you're in a short term emergency situation and have to behave accordingly.

You can do it Harm. Countless others on these boards have travelled this road too and reached a much better place.

Sending   to you. WWT.
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 10:27:03 AM »



Last few days have been one hell of a sick train ride (Sick/puking/bed/crying/shower for 3 hours... ). Got the flu, it’s seriously cold here in the Netherlands (especially for the time of the year :X)

You have been under some serious stress lately (understatement of the year?). Unfortunately, stress can impair our immune responses. I'm sorry you are suffering with a virus now, too, on top of everything else. But looking for the bright side... . when you are sick enough to vomit, you have some physical sensations to focus on. You can be mindful and aware of what you are feeling in your body. It is very different than the dissociative numbness and "un-real-ness" that happens with severe depression... . it helps you remember you are real, to focus on a different sort of discomfort. What do you think?

I finally had a chance to watch the video you shared. I think he makes some great points. I mean, who wouldn't want to end such miserable pain? I definitely agree it isn't wrong to want it over with. I also agree that there are alternative solutions to end the suffering than suicide, and that our thoughts and brain chemistry can work against us. Sometimes they feed off each other in kind of a negative spiral. We have to get them both to stop spinning out of control in order to start climbing back up. If the Paxil does not help, try something else. It is not unusual to have to try several different meds or dosages before you find the combination that clicks. It can be frustratingly tricky. Keep hanging in there.

I am glad you have at least discussed your options for inpatient treatment as well. I wish it were more accessible to you. I like the suggestion to consider looking abroad. May not be feasible, but it's at least something to think about.

I like that the video says it's ok to feel your feelings, too... . I would add it's good to have some support at the same time. It can be too hard to go through that all alone. The main thing is to know we don't have to deny we are sad and miserable for the sake of "pulling ourselves together." It stood out to me that his teacher saw the depression as a motivator to begin work--and it IS work. It reminds me of things that have been said already here in your thread.

In the same way it's not wrong to want your suffering to end, it's not wrong to need rest or to need love. The recent choices you say you regret and that make you feel ashamed (e.g., quitting your job, interacting with your ex)--those are the only ways you know in this moment to get your needs met. It is right to take care of yourself, and you are really trying! You need rest; you know work was wearing you out; you meet your need. It is ok. You need love, connection, comfort; you remember the only person who has given you any of those things recently; you reach out hoping she will help you. That isn't wrong. You are trying to meet your needs, to take care of yourself. Those are very good things!

I do want to address whether you think interacting with your ex is actually helping you in your goal of meeting your emotional needs. If we can use a simile, to me it is like you have become addicted to a drug. She gave you some highs, but there were also some very negative effects, and now you are in withdrawal... . you crave just one more high. But I think she is poison for you. I am afraid you could OD. Just as there are alternatives to suicide for ending pain, there are alternatives to your ex for getting love. To me it sounds like she is incapable of meeting your need, and that in fact she is doing more harm to you than good. She kicks you when you are down.  That is not your fault--you deserve compassion.

Excerpt
She then blames me for throwing away something so beautiful and that I hurt her deeply... .

I'm sure if you knew this was important for her to have, you would have given it to her right away. It is normal for people to throw away things they don't need. You didn't do anything wrong--anyone in your shoes would probably have done the same.  These things just happen.

She was deeply hurt long before you came into her life, you are not the cause of that. She may be disappointed that she doesn't have her receipt, and seems to have trouble coping with that disappointment. You do not have to take on he responsibility for her inability to manage her feelings. She will find a new solution to the problem of the missing receipt. If she is unhappy, THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Excerpt
, I started to cry on the phone telling her that I never wanted any of this to unfold this way and then she got mad at me saying: if I cry she will feel guilty, (So stop crying harm!)

So, she is telling you, your feelings do not matter to her and she does not think they should matter to you. She only cares about her feelings and holds you responsible for taking care of them. She is showing you that her needs and feelings are more important to her than anyone else's.  Her lack of empathy is not your fault. You deserve to have your needs and feelings acknowledged and validated

Excerpt
she says she is scarred for life, how can she ever trust someone again? She told me; Harm, you have really, really hurt me. If someone like you, who has treated me so good ... because we had something good Harm, how can I ever trust someone gain?

Her scars, her pain, those were there LONG before you. They are not your fault. She is having trouble coping with disappointment and pain... . her feelings may be fragile and she may have trouble trusting people... . but you did not cause it, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure it. You do not cause her trust issues. Those are hers to own and work on. If she is expecting to find a person who will never hurt her or disappoint her, planet Earth is the wrong place to be looking. We ain't got perfect here. Besides, she has a predisposition to feel injured more intensely than most other people. I don't think even Perfect would be good enough.

Let's look at what is true in what she says:

Excerpt
And she is very grateful to me about that, that I treated her so well and always was so selfless and that I’ve never done anything wrong to hit her and was there to help her... and she misses that so dearly. Also the intimacy...

You were good to her. You treated her well. To me, it sounds like you are not only adequate at giving love, you are pretty dang good at it! I do not think her unhappiness is due to an inability on your part to give her the love she needs; I think it lies in her inability to receive it.

If I plant a dud seed, it is never going to grow, no matter how diligently I care for it. I can water it, till the soil, mulch, give more sun, more shade, fertilize, thin the weeds, serenade it with a string quartet... . but if it's not going to grow, it's not going to grow. You've put in good work on your seed, Harm, but there's nothing you can do to make her grow. It's beyond your power to make anything better for her.

Excerpt
To be hearing that, still a bit of the old gf, the new ex, and some disorders in there, the contradictions, the mal-wiring basically is so skull splitting, I need to stop trying to make sense of the chaos.

I am glad you can see the contradictions in her thinking. The one thing she does say (implicitly) with any consistency is that she is all that really matters to herself. The rest is shove/yank ("push/pull" seems too mild) to try to make it so that she is all that matters to you, too. She cannot hold a consistent view of you in her mind. That is all her disorder. If you need stability and consistency, or to talk to someone who can tell you the truth based on facts and not on what she is feeling at the moment, you probably need to look elsewhere.

Excerpt
If something like the figurative speech of; “nail in a coffin” would exist, that would be it. That would be it ladies and gentlemen. After that phone call, it literally felt like a spike straight through my heart. I felt I broke again.

Abuse hurts. And pretty much every bit of what she said to you in that conversation was emotionally abusive. You are already battered and bruised, on the floor... . looking for a hand to pick you up... . and she kicks you a few times right where you're already hurt and tells you to get up and take care of her instead.

Is this the kind of person who is going to be helpful in your recovery? You are in a period of meeting your immediate needs--remember, that's good! So, what do you need right now in order to begin healing these emotional injuries?

It is interesting that you mention PTSD may be a factor here. I am doing work on my own PTSD right now. One thing to note is that we cannot begin to recover from trauma while we are still being traumatized. We need to be in a safe place where we can relax our defenses. Whether or not PTSD diagnosis applies to you, I think you have endured some trauma--at her hands and possibly before she came into your life--and I can see how much it hurts you when those wounds are re-opened. I would like to see you heal... . what can you do to create the safest environment possible for that?

It is good to see you are still "doing the work." I want to answer some of your other questions about purpose, but this is already long, so I will come back to that later. To close, just a comment on your last statement:

Excerpt
I'm now off to bed again. Hopefully, hopefully there will be a time where I can tell you guys, you know what, it was ridiculous that I looked at life that way.

I think there will come a time when you will be able to look back and say, "I am so PROUD of how hard I worked to take care of myself. Even when I didn't know how, I did the BEST I could, and I asked for help with the rest. Look at all the JOY in my life that is there because I was willing to do all that hard emotional work."

PF
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 05:56:53 PM »

  Hey, Harmkrakow. Just wanted to see how things are going.

Also, I have been thinking a lot about your questions about what motivates us to get out of bed in the morning. I agree that would make a good new thread. I have some answers that are true for my life now--things that have more to do with purpose and joy--and others that were probably more true when I was depressed--things like fear and image and survival. But I can't give you the answers that will be true for you, now or in your future. Only you really know those things. But if it will really help you to hear from others, I hope you will start another thread. I will keep an eye out.

One thing I would like to offer as a suggestion: Try to find something beautiful every day. It does not have to make you feel anything, just has to be something you perceive is beautiful. You can use any of your senses: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, or even the non-physical "spiritual" sense. What do you think? Is this something you would be interested in trying?

Hope to hear from you again soon.

PF
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 09:39:43 AM »

 Hey, Harmkrakow. Just wanted to see how things are going.

Also, I have been thinking a lot about your questions about what motivates us to get out of bed in the morning. I agree that would make a good new thread. I have some answers that are true for my life now--things that have more to do with purpose and joy--and others that were probably more true when I was depressed--things like fear and image and survival. But I can't give you the answers that will be true for you, now or in your future. Only you really know those things. But if it will really help you to hear from others, I hope you will start another thread. I will keep an eye out.

One thing I would like to offer as a suggestion: Try to find something beautiful every day. It does not have to make you feel anything, just has to be something you perceive is beautiful. You can use any of your senses: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, or even the non-physical "spiritual" sense. What do you think? Is this something you would be interested in trying?

Hope to hear from you again soon.

PF

It is something i'm interested in trying. And I do try Smiling (click to insert in post) but one little thing can still get overshadowed by negative feelings.

To give an overview of last week. I've been home, the entire last week, in my bad. Last Saturday till now. In bed ... . flu-ish, puking. Feeling weak, but on the other hand also drank a bottle of vodka, got myself smashed, took sleeping pills, wrote myself a suicide letter, had therapy but mostly haven't really spoken to anyone. The feeling in your head, that you want to kill yourself was at some points, SO strong. SO incredibly strong. Seriously people, the wantingness to die, was so severe, SO SO SO incredibly severe. Completely alone, feeling sick, you look on FB, ur chat, no-one there, you had no contact that day with anyone, no call. Then you feel alone and mourn about what you had with your ex. And my god, seriously, the feeling wanting to die at some points was SO strong. You literally end up falling on a pile of clothes, crying, feeling ur completely alone and I just praid. Please, whoever is there, I just want out. Kill me ... . I had 2 attempts. I had all the thoughts spooking through my head. I checked everything in regards of which is the easiest way to kill yourself. It's sincerely crazy, because when you are in such an uncontrollable phase you really think you 1) ARE going to do it and 2) it feels so calm.

I know in hindsight though know, that a lot of those suicide feelings are boosted/fuelled (not sure if its the right wording) by my Paxil anti depressants... . And yes, I will quit these anti depressants effective immediately.

And still, last few days I go from severe crying moments, hiding myself in my bedsheet, crying, utter crying and then I go watch a tv show, I play a video game for 30 minutes and take a shower. And the 'rest' comes a bit back. However, it feels... . still feels so futile. I STILL feel, i 1) can't get better than my ex and 2) i look myself in the mirror and feel so ___ing ugly. I'm 25, I work in finance, i've had 4 serious relationships so far. So I guess purely on a social term that I'm not that 'crazy'. However, i've never felt so alone right now, I still feel, no prospect. It's sickening. I'm 25, one would say, especially my older friends who tell me, dude, I wish I could change with you ... . you have so much prospect you just don't see it yet... .

What do I need to do now?

It's april now, in July I have to hand in a research paper + do an exam and then i'm finished in Holland. I am done then. I currently live in the Northern parts of the Netherlands, I know exactly 2 friend in this area. Thats it. I am not going to stay there. I can either go back to London, i've already lived there for 4 years, however, all the things i've done there, remind me of me, yeah, misses BPD. I fear for myself going back there. Due to the triggerfest there. So what other options do I have? I work in banking meaning, either London, New York, or Asia and the latter 2 need work permits so my options are limited :'(.

Another thing is, i've been completely alone, on my room for over a week and I can tell you, that isn't helping either. Not helping at all. I go from little, very little good moments to severe depression and suicidal thoughts. Even today, I feel quite okay so far. Serious, I can say I feel 'relatively' okay right now but I know somewhere today I will feel utterly alone again and cry in a little belittling corner and wanting to end my life.

One of my biggest battles

Now I am completely alone, I ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url]. Which is stupid, because I know I should matter in this world. But mentally, I ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url] that I exist, that I matter in this world. When my suicidal thoughts are the biggest, are the moments I feel utterly motherless alone on this planet and then you have these weird thoughts in your head that no-one cares about you. I need social contact on a day per day basis. Which is STUPID, because when I was back in my relationship, I loved it to spend some time on my own. And of course, I know people, I know I know, thats how it goes when a relationship breaks. That's what happens. All out of a sudden you are alone and you need to buff up and take it as an adult (i sometimes feel like a 3 year old yelling for his mother) and continue with your life.

The unfortunate matter is, the moment we broke up, she left the country and I had to reside back north where I didnt know anyone plus no future prospect plus no social backup. Meaning, I went from all to nothing + in my age range people around me start with babies. All those little things add up to the major mental pain.

I don't want to ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url]. I don't. I want to be able to enjoy something on my own. Seriously, that feeling you don't matter, it so hurts. It so, ~ing hurts skull splitting agony. So severe. So incredibly severe. It's so much pain, I literally wish no one this pain.

So my decision

I don't have work atm, meaning 3 months holiday. I ofc. need to study and do research but 3 months at home, will make me go crazy. I already notice that purely on the social level I feel anxiety. Anxiety like i never felt before. I think if you would test me on paranoia and social phobia I would score a 100%. My self confidence is just stripped.

I would like to speak to my ex and I need closure I don't have. I keep ~ing remember the good times. And I need to stop that. So what i'm going to do? I'm going to her place for a few days/weeks and just face the boogeyman. Meaning, booking a flight! I'll let her know if she wants to meet me or not. I don't care, if she doesn't, I have atleast an answer ... . I think the best thing I can do is check myself into a hostel and finish my memories in that place, with a GOOD one, a GOOD ending. Last time I saw her, she told me the relationship was heading in the right direction... .

I can honestly say, last week, has by far been the most agonizing mental and physical week of my LIFE. Hands down. The crying moments, for hours, in the middle of the night, on the couch, shivering due to the cold, not wanting to call friends because you don't have the fire in you to kick yourself and do something.

A friend told me and asked me, please go take a shower and check if you still have a pair of bollocks because I think they have dissapeared.

I feel scared to start with life again, rebuild life that is. F*ck this man

But i NEED TO DO SOMETHING ... . or otherwise i'm going to do stupid things. When i'm in such a suicidal moment I can't think straight. I think it's a good decision to stop with my anti depressants.

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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 09:54:02 AM »

Please don't stop your anti depressants. You will feel worse because you will have a withdrawal reaction. You must not stop them cold turkey.

Please go to the ER and tell them you have been considering how to kill yourself and that you have had two attempts.

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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 10:19:50 AM »

Harm

I can only repeat what Maria1 said. You need help by professionals. Not only for some hours per weak but round the clock.

Please go to a Emergency clinic for psychiatry. Please accept that you are in serious need for help.
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 10:51:47 AM »



Hi Harm   sending lots of hugs your way     and so sorry it's been such a very, very bad week.

I know you've said that there aren't mental health support facilities in the Netherlands equivalent to the ones in the US - but I bet there's the capacity in most major hospitals to provide care for people that are going through appalling times like the ones that you're experiencing right now. I agree with Maria and Surnia (of course I do ! They're both incredibly smart ! You'll have gathered that by now!). Now is the time to take yourself to a hospital and ask for that support. What does your T say about this?

It's not a good idea to try and tough this out alone - you will recover much more quickly and effectively if you get the right support as soon as possible. It's the mature, responsible and mentally healthy thing to do. And once you start to feel stronger lots of other things that you're stressing about now will start to diminish and to fall into place.

I don't think anyone would advise stopping your anti-depressants unless your GP has backed that decision up. What does your GP say about it?

Sending huge amounts of support and powerful healing prayers your way   WWT.

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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 11:01:20 AM »

Just going to reiterate the others here - don't just stop taking your medication, sudden stopping can come with its own awful side effects. Clearly Paxil is not working for you. You need to go see a doctor TODAY and request a medication change. There are all kinds of anti-depressants, they work in different ways and affect people differently, so try something else - you have nothing to lose!

Don't book a plane ticket to see your ex while you're in this state. You won't be able to pull it together well enough to get what you want out of that trip AND you won't have access to your doctor while you are switching meds. You always have time to find your ex later, when you are more confident, more calm, and more steady. Take your best self down that path if need be - not your worst and most desperate. This is not really a good time to be making major decisions.

Please take care of yourself. We're here. We think you matter in this world. 
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 11:15:35 AM »

Hey harm, strength isn't the ability to get through life on your own. Strength is knowing when we need to help others and knowing when we need to ask others for help. The first part is pretty easy for most of us, feels good to help others, the second is far more difficult for me. Asking others to help.  Somehow makes me feel less of a person if I'm needing help. It takes great strength to reach out to others and say please, help me. I have nothing left to give to get me through another day. Please see someone today about the overwhelming feelings you are having. You are an important part of this world. You may hold the keys to unimaginable ideas. Some of the greatest thinkers and doers of our world suffered from crippling depression. It seems that with great ideas, great thoughts and great people come great struggles. Even if you know us only as a voice, there are many here who care, about you.
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 12:29:24 PM »

Please don't stop your anti depressants. You will feel worse because you will have a withdrawal reaction. You must not stop them cold turkey.

Please go to the ER and tell them you have been considering how to kill yourself and that you have had two attempts.

Harmkrakow, I'm so sorry you have and are feeling such deep despair.  It's a horrid, horrid feeling.  One of the things about suicidal feelings is the belief that things won't get better, and it's truly impossible to sometimes be in the depths of despair and realize that YES things WILL get better.  This belief from depression is the reason why you need professional help. 

I'm so glad you are reaching out here and baring your soul -- I agree 100% with what Maria and others here have said.  Please go seek help.  It is there for you.  Be as honest with them as you have with the forum and they will assist you.

You have so much worth as a person and have been through so much.  You are struggling mightily, and it's understandable that you have become depressed and suicidal.  I don't comment a lot, but I've read many of your posts and know that you are a good person who has been deeply wounded... .   but I've also read many stories here and know that YES, you will overcome this.  Believe it!   

We all CARE and want you to get help.  Please keep us updated.   

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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 05:51:37 PM »

Hey, Harmkrakow, glad you're still checking in.

I will respond more later but want to join the chorus urging you not to quit the Paxil cold. I promise from personal experience that is one you need to wean off of gradually, with doctor's supervision. I quit taking Paxil cold turkey once and ended up 100x worse.

I think it is past time for some emergency intervention. You need some professional care right now, because you matter.


PF

P.S., I say prayers for you, too, to the same God who brought me out of all this mess.
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 09:53:11 PM »

harmkrakow,

Just wanted to say   and let you know that somebody else is watching... .   and I'm relieved every time I see you post again.

I hadn't seen you around before (My home here was on staying)... .   and I've been depressed before, but nothing like what you describe. So I wasn't quite sure what to say. You know, I'm still not quite sure what to say.

I'll just say that I care, and I do understand the feeling of not knowing what to do next. Even if I don't have much to get me out of bed some mornings... .   I know there will be other mornings I'll bounce up ready to do things I'm excited about.

If you are still going, I do recommend an USA roadtrip. I've driven cross-country before, and found some of the most amazing things in unlikely places. (I'm going to protect my anonymity on these boards and not mention anything specific... .   but PM me and I'll share some favorites.)
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 05:01:13 PM »

You do matter. 

We are all equally important, and we all have a right to be here.  I agree with others, please go to emergency room if you feel like hurting yourself.
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 12:56:37 AM »

You matter, and all of us responding are here to tell you that we are reading, reflecting and thinking of you.

So glad to read your posts and know you are still there... .  

Keep posting and please know, we are here.

C
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 09:29:39 AM »

Harmkrakow,

I hope you've gone for help, and that's why we haven't heard from you.  Sending healing thoughts and want to join others in saying we care about you!  I so hope you are getting care/treatment -- life WILL get better!  Hang in there!

ACR   
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 03:53:02 PM »

  Finally have a few minutes to log on and post some more.

Excerpt
I feel utterly motherless alone on this planet... .  

(i sometimes feel like a 3 year old yelling for his mother)

These are the statements that stood out the most to me from your last post.

You are in tremendous pain. It is understandable that you would want to be soothed and comforted. It isn't wrong to want those things or to need validation from other people. It doesn't matter how old you are, we all need that.

I definitely could have used a mother when I was feeling like you (heck, I still need mothering). Unfortunately, my mother was not a safe person to turn to for help. So, I had to find other ways to meet my need for nurturing. But what about  your mother? Does she know what you are going through? Could she help you?

You matter, Harmkrakow. You deserve to be loved and consoled. You are worth taking care of.

I am concerned about your plan to go see your ex. I know you are trying to find any way possible to meet your needs, and you remember a time when she was treating you well and making you feel good. But lately, you have not felt that good after interacting with her. She has behaved abusively towards you and left you feeling even lower. I wonder if it might be a good idea to save any interactions you might try to have with her for another time when you are not so vulnerable.

You do not have to fight this battle alone. It is ok to take a break from school if you need to and finish when you are feeling better. Have you talked with any of your professional care team since your last post? Do they know about your suicide attempts?

I am always glad to see another post from you, Harmkrakow. Where have you found beauty today?

PF






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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 06:21:12 PM »

Harmkrakow,

I hope you've gone for help, and that's why we haven't heard from you.  Sending healing thoughts and want to join others in saying we care about you!  I so hope you are getting care/treatment -- life WILL get better!  Hang in there!

ACR   

! Since my last post here I did go back on my Paxil (as everyone here also said) stopping suddenly will make you feel worse as I seeked out contact with my shrink again and GP and ofc. the message was, go back, and eventually in a few days we check if we cut the dose to lower miligram and got myself another appointment, and yes, I agree, that was for the better. I do.

However, even today, and I mean that, even today, I went to severe pain yet again. It's ridiculous. You know 1) your ex has moved on 2) you also know that you are not willing to let go 3) you feel like you can't turn the tide anymore and 4) you feel immense guilt, shame and the pressure of ur friends and family on ur shoulders that u, u have failed them. U were once told to have a great career, and now people tell me, mate, ur talking about suicidal thoughts, look at how far she brought you down. You have done it to yourself!

 Finally have a few minutes to log on and post some more.

Excerpt
I feel utterly motherless alone on this planet... .  

(i sometimes feel like a 3 year old yelling for his mother)

These are the statements that stood out the most to me from your last post.

You are in tremendous pain. It is understandable that you would want to be soothed and comforted. It isn't wrong to want those things or to need validation from other people. It doesn't matter how old you are, we all need that.

I definitely could have used a mother when I was feeling like you (heck, I still need mothering). Unfortunately, my mother was not a safe person to turn to for help. So, I had to find other ways to meet my need for nurturing. But what about  your mother? Does she know what you are going through? Could she help you?

You matter, Harmkrakow. You deserve to be loved and consoled. You are worth taking care of.

I am concerned about your plan to go see your ex. I know you are trying to find any way possible to meet your needs, and you remember a time when she was treating you well and making you feel good. But lately, you have not felt that good after interacting with her. She has behaved abusively towards you and left you feeling even lower. I wonder if it might be a good idea to save any interactions you might try to have with her for another time when you are not so vulnerable.

You do not have to fight this battle alone. It is ok to take a break from school if you need to and finish when you are feeling better. Have you talked with any of your professional care team since your last post? Do they know about your suicide attempts?

I am always glad to see another post from you, Harmkrakow. Where have you found beauty today?

PF

The moment I told my 2 dearest friends about going to visit my ex they, well, how to put it politely, went out of their mind to say, well, [insert all swear words]. Big time. Why do I want to see her? She has hurt me a lot, I am not allowed to complain to her about my pain because she will tell me 1) i was the one hurting her 2) i was the one guilty 3) if i cry she feels guilty and she doesnt want 4) she complains to me about me not having empathy 5) she has no idea on a few things I know ... . what SHE has done what has hurt me. Example, few emails for example she send to a friend about me which well, wasnt very positive about me while she never told me anything about this. And I could read this mail because she gave me her username and password of her mail once to send an email to a debt collection agency to handle of a debt and ofc. after that got finished she changed the mail password.

My shrink is fully aware of my suicidal thoughts. He however, helps more more in regards of the core of my problems, rather than fixing the suicidal thoughts. I don't feel like I gain a lot of help in regards of battling my suicidal thoughts true ER/Shrink/GP/hotlines.

How would we summarize the main core of the problem?

It would be something like

1) believe that you can not get better than your ex BPD gf

2) believe that you are not worthy of getting better than  your ex BPD gf

3) believe that you are the sole responsible cause for the break up of the r/s with ur ex BPD gf

4) believe that you can not get any other happiness in regards of love ever again, as you believe, that you have given it all, the full extent, and it was not enough for a disordered person

5) That burden all together is breaking my shoulders

and also

1) you feel ashamed in regards of ur mother and very proud family

2) you feel ashamed in regards of ur friends, who told you since October, BREAK IT UP, and it only got broken to a full extent in March... .  

3) you feel ashamed of yourself, everyone told you, you were by far the most passionate guy we know in regards of ur career field and u let urself get SO SCREWED, whats wrong with u?

4) you feel ashamed because you feel like you failed from the expectations others had from you ... .

5) That burden all together is breaking my shoulders

Plus... .

1) I don't enjoy anything at the moment. I don't enjoy the sun, I don't enjoy running, I don't enjoy or feel satisfaction out of anything. It's seriously hard like crazy to get through a day when every activity you try, feels like one to many.

All together, it feels like I can't turn the tide. I can't. And the core of the problem is relatively simply pointed towards my FOO, as I come from a proud family, meaning, the sense of having failed them and others, acts like such a pressure on ur shoulders. Failure is not really accepted.  And ... . my mother is physically and mentally disabled, and lives in a psychiatric institute. She has the IQ and EQ of someone of 15 years old. Meaning, she can be talked to, she can understand, her memory is poor, but she can be naughty as everyone was during their puberty. When I first introduced my ex BPD gf to my mother, I waited with it so long, because well, considering her circumstance it was a huge move. 4 weeks later the hatred phase started in our BPD r/s. I had to tell my mother the news. You know what happened? I wasn't able to. I yet to this day have to tell her the news. I went there on my own, wanted to tell her and ended up in a normal day conversation about something little as ofc. she is very emotional and I just couldnt break the news to her.

I left the institute and the moment I was in the alleyway/corridoor towards the exit, I collapsed and started crying, the nurses were all like, WOW, whats going ON HERE?. First a lot of appraisal, as my mother has been in this institute for like 20 years and considering  im 25, and considering I visit her on my own in a strong closed of psychiatric institute they were very proud of me, on the other hand, they understood my problem. I wanted my mother to be proud of me of me getting married. And now I showed my crazy (then soon to be) ex to her? I felt so much guilt it was beyond me. All I wanted was to make my mother proud of me, and due to unfortunate illness, I always tried for years and years with SO much pre-caution as i've been in other r/s before even longer ones than the one I had with my ex and those I never introduced to my mother. My ex told me, she'll understand. You'll be strong enough. The walk back from the mental institute towards the trainstation and towards home was a hell of a walk, I was crying constantly on the phone to one of my best friends which I literally (!) called out of the blue.

So, breaking down my current issues is 1) my ex and 2) the pressure I feel of having failed and not being able to turn the tide. My ex, I can delete, hold on, no ... . I should delete her from my life completely. Completely. She has been nothing but bad news and she needs to be gone. I need to cut her off my linkedin and facebook and block her on my phone and mail and literally cut of all the mutual friends we have. She is nothing else but a cancerous growth which blocks any progress and every week when u have contact and let her talk you down you are back at level zero. She was the one initiating the hatred phase and the devaluation and literally paint me dead black. However, as 1 of my friends told me. You dear Harm, you have still the final pawn in ur hand to finish this. If u kick her off FB, Linkedin, block her mail and phone, U are the one in control and you are the one sealing the deal, NOT her. Meaning... . TAKE CONTROL Harm, stand up for yourself.

For the pressure in regards of my family and friends, I yet have to find a reasonable solution. It hurts, a lot, and i've lost a few friends over this however some the bond maintained.

Hi Harm   sending lots of hugs your way     and so sorry it's been such a very, very bad week.

I know you've said that there aren't mental health support facilities in the Netherlands equivalent to the ones in the US - but I bet there's the capacity in most major hospitals to provide care for people that are going through appalling times like the ones that you're experiencing right now. I agree with Maria and Surnia (of course I do ! They're both incredibly smart ! You'll have gathered that by now!). Now is the time to take yourself to a hospital and ask for that support. What does your T say about this?

Well, i've had talks with my T about this. We in the Netherlands do not have these sort of resorts like the US. We don't. So, we look at other options. We do however have psychiatric care, but as spoken to with help that would not be fitting for me. Why? Well, although I might seem to be a danger to myself, I am not a danger to others and psychiatric institutionalization is more for people who are, and I know this sounds weird, really mentally sick as close to a danger to the society and not just(!) to themselves. I am not a danger to others. Far from. There are no suicide-care centres in hospitals, rather than just a 'pat on the shoulder and talk' don't do it and go talk to a psychologist and some medication to lower the anxiety/depression. My shrink also doesnt want me, nor my GP, to go for group therapy as, although they both say that well, Harm, harm has sunk beyond the bottom of the deepest Ocean, my progress level and the way I develop is relatively different than others. And if being put in a group therapy, I would likely progress quicker than others, also due to my analytically behavior. That however does not need to say that I will be 'cured' quicker than others, as I've sunk far deeper than many expected.

Of course, you (with friends and shrink) try to find issues, is there something wrong with you, is there something back from the past which might now come to light? Have you been bullied? Was this your first girlfriend? I never been bullied. I've actually hit the most popular girl back in primary school. I'm 25 with over 6 years of r/s experience. Actually, my last 2 exes, yes yes, are in my group of best friends! My last ex-gf even told me, if I didn't treat her so well during our r/s, she would not have anything to do with me anymore, but i've always treated her well and now she is one of my best friends (the ones you can call 24/7 if needed). I went from a rural area in the Netherlands on my own to 'big and scary' London. I actually read (in tears Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)) today my diary of my first Months in London. The passion, the wantingness to succeed, to pass my exams, to pass and be someone was immaculate! It was extraordinary. Now? Now when I look back at it? Man ... . I feel like it was 20 years ago and it's completely out of reach. I feel I have to start all over again and no people, I don't feel like I have the energy for it anymore.

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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 06:21:28 PM »

You know, today. I woke up around 9.00 AM in the morning, and I take my sleeping medication to sleep myself 'through' the day as my worst period throughout the day is often afternoon. I again, I ended up crying SO bad, and literally with such a passionate death wish that you really sit on the floor, in a cat position, you cry, for a long time. And then you wonder. You seriously wonder people, you wonder, is this, is this really what I want? Or is this a pure help for cry? Or is this me really wanting to end the pain? You try to differentiate the feeling of 'cry for help' and 'really wanting to die'. And I realized, I really realized that I wanted the latter. Because you also have a lot of people who try and try and complain constantly and don't seem to move on. Drowning in self-pity, depression for years. Me? I am not going to be that way. It's either the high way or my way. I am not going to do this for a lot of weeks extra. I simply can't. The shame, the guilt, it's simply to much. I ofc. will give myself time, thats what i'm doing right now. The biggest problem, even right now, as of this instant. Is that I can't feel like I can't turn the tide anymore. That is what is worrying me. I feel, I seriously feel I can't turn the tide anymore. And, I seriously realize that when I'm on my own and I have such a crying phase, btw, it's seriously weird, you basically prepare food in the kitchen with tears flying from ur eyes. Ur a grown man, and u lay on the floor of the living room in the middle of the afternoon crying. Crying ... . just crying, shivering. And this thought in ur head, literally shouting it out, GO. Away ... . I need to cut of that brain part which reminds me of all the good times of my ex and that I need her in my life to be happy. Because I dont(!). However, after months and months INTO the hatred phase of my ex BPD gf, I realized I made myself codependent on her and ofc, the moment U realize that and in talks with ur shrink, it's quite tricky to get out of it.

I will later on, just post the entire story of myself so people here, with their experience, have an idea, fully that is, who they are talking to and what i'm dealing with. As although i'm following help with a shrink and GP, I feel it's not entirely enough. It's one of the reasons I vent here ofc.

And yes, I seriously try to fix myself, I do. But my goodness it's hard, i've had moments today, again, where I was sure, mate, what the heck do you do it for? PULL THE PLUG. But ... . wherever I have the chance to socialize I do, a friend of mine basically invited himself to my place yesterday to watch a football match and talk about life. That felt nice Smiling (click to insert in post). And I did go back on the Paxil and I use my sleep medication to hang on in regards of rest.

Seriously people, the feeling in your head, that you are certain, the pain is enough. IT IS ENOUGH. It's so weird. I've never experienced something like this ever before. It's SO skull splitting. I've had mental and physical pain before but that is not even 1/100000th of what i'm enduring right now, and thats not even an understatement. You literally, SHOUT it out of the pain. Seriously, you SHOUT it out. It's been SUCH a toxic r/s, with months of bashing and painting black and being painted black as the worst person on the world and with sentences like how can you live with yourself looking in the mirror, the pressure just broke my shoulders. And yes, you cry, you cry endlessly, and ofc. after that you feel a little better, fortunately for me I get some sort of contact from the outside world (a text, a mail, a fb line, something, it can be something SO little) and ur mind is switched for a bit, u feel its getting evening again, meaning checking the forum, check the mail, check the food, check if there is something on TV.

 Finally have a few minutes to log on and post some more.

I am always glad to see another post from you, Harmkrakow. Where have you found beauty today?

PF

I have found my beauty today in a simple email from a company who were asking me if I had interest to work for them. They told me, my CV and their company was a blistering fit and were asking me, which roles would be of your interest? That little sense of validation is going to make me at least fall asleep with the thought hey, today is not the day to finish.

I thank you all for your posts and replies. They matter a great lot to me. I mean that. I am 100% sure you guys have no idea, how much it means, even such a little thing as an reply.

I know, I know that every day is still a struggle, and please people, do realize, I try to fight. I try to keep fighting and yes, almost every day I feel like giving up, and yes, I do go to shrink, call, GP, but the help for these cases in our country is just a bit different. I'm for now back on Paxil and have temazepam for sleeping medication. Other than that, I use a bit of a drink to make me tipsy (i dont like drinking... . I really don't but I know the effect of it on the nervous system, they calm down the muscles, lower your blood rate, it's horrendous for a LONG sleep but it's okay for falling asleep) as i can't use the temazepam every day as benzo's are highly addictive.

I just sometimes wish I could either turn back time (i've lost 2 precious years with this girl ... . and well, hopefully not a scar for life) and wish I was just a simple carpenter or something. I don't mean this negative, seriously, I don't. But well, I do have an overactive mind as due to the fact that I study quantitative studies on a high level you have the unfortunate nature to check, analyze, and double-check stuff.

It's 1.11 AM now where I am, time for bed.

Thanks buddies! Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2013, 08:53:38 PM »

Glad you're still checking in.

You know I really do understand how hard it is. I am really impressed how hard you are working to survive. You probably don't know how strong you are because you feel so worn down. But you are doing a good job.

I can respond more to these posts tomorrow. I just want to say that feelings are just feelings... .   they are neither right nor wrong. It is ok to feel them.

The email about a new job sounds encouraging.    Smiling (click to insert in post)  I would love to see how that works out. Is it somewhere you would like to work?

Talk to you more tomorrow.

PF
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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 07:53:30 AM »



Hi Harm.

Well done on getting that job offer - that's tremendous. Congratulations to you.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I wanted to say that I bet you really need not worry at all about your professional future - because you sound like someone who has the ability to do very well - and this confirms it. It doesn't mean you have to be in a major hurry to jump back into the 'rat race' again though - you can afford to take time now to look after yourself for a while and build up your emotional strength. That will mean that all aspects of your life - work, social life, family etc can be better in the future.

Yes - I see what you mean about what's available to you in the Netherlands in terms of emergency psychiatric support. I'm in the UK and it's very similar here. But I'm wondering if there are other ways of increasing the assistance you're getting right now?

How often do you see your T? I know you can call him whenever you want - that's good - but do you have two or three sessions a week? I hope so because I think that one session might not feel like enough. Is it possible to get some more sessions with him on a regular, weekly basis? I know from my own experience that you make faster and more effective progress if you get the maximum amount of support available as soon as possible - and put as much structure in place in your life as you can.

I like the sound of this friend... .  

... . wherever I have the chance to socialize I do, a friend of mine basically invited himself to my place yesterday to watch a football match and talk about life. That felt nice Smiling (click to insert in post).

You obviously have some very caring friends who want to do all they can to help you Harm.

I also wanted to say - hard as it is - try not to be surprised and worried about this... .  

And, I seriously realize that when I'm on my own and I have such a crying phase, btw, it's seriously weird, you basically prepare food in the kitchen with tears flying from ur eyes. Ur a grown man, and u lay on the floor of the living room in the middle of the afternoon crying. Crying ... . just crying, shivering.

If you've read much on these boards you'll know that - unfortunately - this isn't that uncommon in the wake of a toxic relationship.  My experience was a little different from yours - but I went into a kind of shock for several weeks - lots of shivering - and actually I couldn't cry for a very long time - I wished that I could! So - hard and horrible as this is - please try and remember - this is normal - it's not a sign that you are in a uniquely impossible situation that's going to feel this awful for years -  you're simply in the middle of a crisis that has to be got through.


In the same way - sadly - this too is very normal... .  


I don't enjoy anything at the moment. I don't enjoy the sun, I don't enjoy running, I don't enjoy or feel satisfaction out of anything. It's seriously hard like crazy to get through a day when every activity you try, feels like one to many.


It's simply what happens when you're depressed. It won't last forever. And the best thing to do right now - in my experience - is to say 'OK - life is going to look strange, colourless and a bit bleak for a while... .   it doesn't mean it really is that way... .   but I must just accept that this is how it feels for now and be patient that it will start to brighten up again before too long and be gentle with myself until that happens'.

I'm so sorry to hear that your Mum has her own problems to deal with. It's clear how much care and concern you have for her.

... .   the core of the problem is relatively simply pointed towards my FOO, as I come from a proud family, meaning, the sense of having failed them and others, acts like such a pressure on ur shoulders. Failure is not really accepted.  And ... . my mother is physically and mentally disabled, and lives in a psychiatric institute. She has the IQ and EQ of someone of 15 years old. Meaning, she can be talked to, she can understand, her memory is poor, but she can be naughty as everyone was during their puberty. When I first introduced my ex BPD gf to my mother, I waited with it so long, because well, considering her circumstance it was a huge move. 4 weeks later the hatred phase started in our BPD r/s. I had to tell my mother the news. You know what happened? I wasn't able to. I yet to this day have to tell her the news. I went there on my own, wanted to tell her and ended up in a normal day conversation about something little as ofc. she is very emotional and I just couldnt break the news to her.

I left the institute and the moment I was in the alleyway/corridoor towards the exit, I collapsed and started crying, the nurses were all like, WOW, whats going ON HERE?. First a lot of appraisal, as my mother has been in this institute for like 20 years and considering  im 25, and considering I visit her on my own in a strong closed of psychiatric institute they were very proud of me, on the other hand, they understood my problem. I wanted my mother to be proud of me of me getting married. And now I showed my crazy (then soon to be) ex to her? I felt so much guilt it was beyond me. All I wanted was to make my mother proud of me, and due to unfortunate illness, I always tried for years and years with SO much pre-caution as i've been in other r/s before even longer ones than the one I had with my ex and those I never introduced to my mother. My ex told me, she'll understand. You'll be strong enough. The walk back from the mental institute towards the trainstation and towards home was a hell of a walk, I was crying constantly on the phone to one of my best friends which I literally (!) called out of the blue.

My question would be - 'What makes you believe that your mother isn't very proud of you already?'. You seem to behave like a wonderful son - visiting her regularly under very difficult circumstances. You sound like an incredibly caring and hard working person. What's not to be proud of?

You haven't failed at all Harm. That's clear. We all make mistakes in life, or follow paths that turn out to be the wrong ones  - that's normal. And some of these mistakes are really hard to get over - but they all offer us a chance to learn - to get wiser and stronger. We really wouldn't be properly alive if we didn't have these experiences. You might find that your friends and family are more forgiving and understanding of what you perceive of as 'failure' than you think. And if they're not then I think it may be your role to start spreading this message of emotional strength and maturity amongst them.

I spent a lot of my life over-working because I'd grown up with a very strong wish to please my father (an immensely warm, loving man with an overdeveloped work ethic of his own). It's taken me a long time to understand that he only ever wanted the best for me - but that no-one is perfect - so sometimes his messages to me were counter productive. We have to learn to pick and chose from amongst the legacy that our FOO leaves us - there will hopefully be beautiful things to treasure in amongst it all but also some things to gently but firmly reject.

I'm so sorry this is such a tough time Harm. But please remember - it's very normal to feel as you do in the circumstances. And these are not feelings that will last forever. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Sending hugs   WWT.

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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2013, 02:53:04 PM »

Some sayings that have helped me along the way:  Take it a day at a time, or a minute at a time if need be.  Bring the body, and the mind and heart will follow.  In other words, just keep going through the motions.  You probably feel like you are just pretending or acting a lot of the time, but that's ok.  This too shall pass.  Eventually, the heart and mind will catch up, and you'll say, Wow! Where have you guys been?  I've missed you.  Hang in there.
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2013, 06:36:31 PM »

Excerpt
So - hard and horrible as this is - please try and remember - this is normal - it's not a sign that you are in a uniquely impossible situation that's going to feel this awful for years -  you're simply in the middle of a crisis that has to be got through.

I think this is a wise statement from Whatwasthat. It certainly feels overwhelmingly endless when you're going through it, but it does pass.

I'm sorry your mother is unable to meet your needs. I know what that is like. I have had to find ways to mother myself. There are literally times when I have taken my coziest blanket, wrapped it around myself like a hug, laid in my bed and stroked my own head while I said comforting things to myself through my tears. And it helps. Sometimes I have to mentally go back in time and comfort Little PF, who was so lost and confused and afraid. She needed a mother but didn't have one, and so now I look after her.

Since the dark times, I have also found comfort in the Mother of God (Mary). Not everyone shares my beliefs, and there was a time when I would have been very suspicious of this suggestion, but for me it has been a great blessing that she has come into my life. She is the very best mother and it helps me to have someone to turn to when I need to cry and feel protected.  For what it's worth, when I walk into my church, I light a candle for you while I ask her to help you. This is what I do for all the other lost children.

It sounds like you have a couple of friends who really care about you. That is helpful, too. Having someone who will just sit with you and keep you company. I am thankful for my friend who did that for me.

You describe as the core of your problem a system of beliefs that is causing you shame and "breaking your shoulders." So, can you see that the distress is coming from those beliefs, and not from who you are? What if you take each of those 8 statements and told yourself something kind and positive instead? You deserve to be loved and to be treated with kindness--and you can start by deciding you are going to be kind to yourself.

You are valuable just as you are. You do not have to achieve or perform to deserve love.

We here care about you very much.

Looking forward to hearing where you found beauty today.

 

PF

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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2013, 08:11:07 PM »

hey Harm!

so sorry to hear what you've been through & are currently going through.

im just commenting to let you know my thoughts are with you at this particular time in your life. although weve never met, i feel connected to you - as i do all the guys on this board - because weve all been through very similar experiences. when i think back to how depressed i was 11 months ago i honestly thought at that time i would never get through it! my uexBPD (w/NPD traits)gf left me heartbroken & completely devastated! i didnt eat a proper meal for 10 weeks and i was sleeping 2-3hours a day. i was so depressed.

I couldnt have loved her more!

Each day that went by i told myself that it would keep getting that tiny bit easier. baby steps so to speak. at the time it didnt feel like it was getting easier and naturally it takes some a while to get your head round the shock & confusion these r/s' bring with them.

BUT my friend, it DOES get easier.

Now im not the most mentally toughest of cookies. I take rejection terribly and i dont handle stress very well at all. But Harm, i got through it. 11 months ago i was where you are now buddy but 3 weeks ago i went out on a date with a girl ive been working with recently and since then weve been out 5 more times. Now Im not gonna make out that i foresee wedding bells or anything but what i do know is that im as happy as iv EVER been in my life and like ive stated twice already in this post... .   11 months ago Harm, i was in exactly the same boat that you are in right now. Life is worth fighting for mate!

Nowadays my crazy ex is nothing more than distant memory. And thats the way i'd like to keep it. Educating myself on BPD (w/NPD traits) and also going no contact were both paramount in my recovery.

Take care of yourself Harm and please listen to the brilliant advise you're being given here by others. Be strong   x 
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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2013, 08:29:32 PM »

Harm, please, please do not ever make that decision to end your life!  We are real people out here and we are worried about you.  Pain has to be passed through.  Your work kept you busy, but you didn't heal.  I am so sorry that this woman, who you care so much about, is unable to have the life she and you want.  It is a terrible thing to see someone deny themselves the very thing that would heal them.  It is NOT your fault.  She is upset because she knows she hurt you, and you are a good man, and she cannot fix it.  Sometimes life is like that.  A season of sadness and pain.

However, spring does come, with all of its promise and joy.  You must wait for it.

to answer your questions:

Excerpt
Please people, can you tell me, can you please tell me what drives you in your life, also in addition to that post? Please answer the following questions to help out me. What pushes you out of bed in the morning? What drives you to pursue your activities throughout the day and what do you live for? As I’ve watched the video many, many times. I feel completely the same in regards of; nowhere else to run anymore. Nowhere. I’ve went abroad, I’ve moved around, I’ve tried different hobbies over the past and I thought I had it all together and now it all shattered into little pieces where I seem to, even after the break up, can’t do anything good. I felt my time has come.

What pushes me out of bed in the morning?  Hope.  My children.  Life.  The alarm clock.  My dear Savior, who has redeemed me.

What drives me to pursue my activities?  A desire to give something good to a world where there is so much darkness and pain, to help others.

What do I live for?  If only you knew my Jesus, you would not need to ask.

The problem is not where you are, the problem is a broken heart.  Can you die from a broken heart?  It feels like it, but I have not.

You would not believe how very much I would like to see you and give you a hug and tell you, "Just keep breathing.  Keep moving forward.  There is hope in life, and who knows what new and surprising thing might happen if you don't give up."   
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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2013, 10:30:21 PM »

Excerpt
The biggest problem, even right now, as of this instant. Is that I can't feel like I can't turn the tide anymore. That is what is worrying me. I feel, I seriously feel I can't turn the tide anymore. And, I seriously realize that when I'm on my own and I have such a crying phase, btw, it's seriously weird, you basically prepare food in the kitchen with tears flying from ur eyes. Ur a grown man, and u lay on the floor of the living room in the middle of the afternoon crying. Crying ... . just crying, shivering.

Been there, felt that, shivering through the night, crying endlessly in disbelief that I could cry so much, that I felt so miserable... .   thinking to myself, get a grip without knowing what the grip would be.

I practiced something that helped a little, gave me momentary reprieve while riding the storm of agony. I would touch the part of me that really hurt, say for instance my chest. I would then close my eyes and say out loud,

"Right now, my heart hurts, it is hurting because I (fill in the feeling), I don't recall ever hurting this much before and I accept that right now, I will hurt like this, I accept my pain. I also affirm that in time, I will feel better, I accept that this pain will pass but for right now I honor my pain, my loss, and also honor that eventually, I will heal".

You know, it sounds simple but those moments were a short reprieve and helped me accept my pain... . and the eventual healing that would come. I learned to believe in the process of personal growth and even though I couldn't imagine that the pain would ever end... . I accepted that in time, it would.

Right now your thoughts, memories, feelings, and emotions are like a 52 card pick up... .   all the cards have been tossed and you are putting them into place.

Coming out of a toxic relationship is devastatingly painful because of all the reasons you mention and you know, it is your journey, no matter how much friends might have warned you, YOU had to go through this because you loved your former s/o and you needed to go through the relationship.

Of course you will blame yourself and feel guilty, with time and retrospect you will come to understand that you did the best you could with the given circumstances. You will learn to forgive yourself any mistakes you believe you made and you will come out of this stronger and wiser.

Happy to read about the job offer... .   and happy to read  you are with us.   

Hang in there

C
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