She ALWAYS complained about having a headache or sore back

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I've read from a few different places that these kinds of behaviors are quite common with pwBPD? Is this true? Because it seemed like she had a headache every day, same goes for the sore back. She'd want me to massage it for her all the time.

I remember one time she promised me sex after I massaged her back, and once I finished she said, "That massage made me sleepy, sorry. Goodnight."

I was just like... .   T_T Yeah, okay.

[paperlung]

I've read from a few different places that these kinds of behaviors are quite common with pwBPD? Is this true? Because it seemed like she had a headache every day, same goes for the sore back. She'd want me to massage it for her all the time.

I remember one time she promised me sex after I massaged her back, and once I finished she said, "That massage made me sleepy, sorry. Goodnight."

I was just like... .   T_T Yeah, okay.

[mtmc01]

Mine did the EXACT SAME THING! It was always a headache, a sore back/butt, she was nauseous, she had cramps, she was anxious, etc., etc., etc. She used to want me to give her massages every day, and I felt bad for asking for one of her half-hearted massages in return (heaven forbid she give me a massage without automatically expecting one in return every time).

[paperlung]

Yeah, I guess I can throw in nausea, cramps and anxiety, too. She was a complete disaster once her period came also. She wouldn't get out of bed and just lay on top of her heating pad for the first couple of days. I'd have to bring her this and that. She was totally bed-bound.

[GreenMango]

Okay guys let's talk about the disorder vs general women issues.   Menstral cramps don't have anything to do with BPD.  Sometimes people just aren't in the mood.

There's a thread on the questions board about pain and physical ailments in association with BPD.

One of the criteria of the disorder is depressivity - depression can have physical symptoms.  Sometimes its psychosomatic sometimes it isn't.

Part of moving forward is working through the detachment lessons, the grief cycle, the abandonmnet cycle and the 10 beliefs.

Issues like cramps, getting to tired to have sex and a variety of other things are people issues and garden variety relaionship ups and downs. 

What is it that leads you to believe this is more about the disorder than just everyday relationship stuff?

[paperlung]

What is it that leads you to believe this is more about the disorder than just everyday relationship stuff?

The frequency. Like I said, I read somewhere about chronic physical ailments being common with BPD, so I was just asking for confirmation on this.

[mtmc01]

This has everything to do with the disorder, IMO. I've worked through this with my T. It's part of their need to direct everything back toward themselves and their constant need for attention.

[mtmc01]

Also, just because it doesn't fall into the DSM, does not mean certain traits or trends don't go along with BPD. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck... .  

[GreenMango]

It's a balance Paper.  There can be chronic pain issues some real and some based on emotional pain that gets manifested in physical pain.

Seriously depression and anxiety can cause people to have pain. Could it be an intense need for attention and feeling needy and needed to be cared for - sure.

BPD is marked by emotional lability - extreme ups and downs.  So it could be that pain she was experiencing.  Some of it could be normal people aches and pains too - if a person has BPD, or any mental illness, not everything everything they do or say or experience is out of whack.

Some of it is just normal stuff too.

[Surnia]

Paperlung

You have started the topic here. Does it really matter if her having lot of chronic pain is related with BPD or not?

Sounds like you are very focused on the past. Where are you in the grieving process?

[paperlung]

Paperlung

You have started the topic here. Does it really matter if her having lot of chronic pain is related with BPD or not?

Sounds like you are very focused on the past. Where are you in the grieving process?

I am still focused a lot on the past. Trying to find all the answers as to why she did what she did or said what she said. Yes, I know... .   Why should I care? It's almost been a month of NC and I should be moving on. I'll never fully understand her. Ever. She was very emotionally unstable and she even admitted to me that I shouldn't believe anything she says because she can't control her emotions or how she feels; it's continuously changing.

I'm seeing a therapist on the 22nd who specializes in BPD, so I am hoping that helps me out.

[Surnia]

Seeing a T is definitly a good plan. 

Yes, our brain get easily caught with reasonning about the past and why? questions. Sometimes it helps to focus in these moments on simple things like Sudoku or playing litlle games... .  

[HarmKrakow]

Okay guys let's talk about the disorder vs general women issues.   Menstral cramps don't have anything to do with BPD.  Sometimes people just aren't in the mood.

There's a thread on the questions board about pain and physical ailments in association with BPD.

One of the criteria of the disorder is depressivity - depression can have physical symptoms.  Sometimes its psychosomatic sometimes it isn't.

Part of moving forward is working through the detachment lessons, the grief cycle, the abandonmnet cycle and the 10 beliefs.

Issues like cramps, getting to tired to have sex and a variety of other things are people issues and garden variety relaionship ups and downs. 

What is it that leads you to believe this is more about the disorder than just everyday relationship stuff?

Thank you for your post and also in the 'red flag' topic to give answers which go against the mass here to keep it real.

I've read so many, so many many lists of red flags which literally describe so much bollocks which have nothing to do with the disorder, but are clearly just 'annoying' points. It's like people feel like they need to validate to others that their uBPD really has BPD. I mean, for crying out loud, i've read sentences where the person didn't brush their teeth(!). So what? Come on now. People with migraines also have headaches very often. Some people would want them to massage every day. So what? Maybe there is actual a physical explanation for it. A scoliosis (S) back? Who knows!

All out of a sudden having a period of massive anxiety, or panic attacks can happen. Or due to a bad youth youngsters might suffer a lot from this sort of anxiety and thus need 'validation' every day. So what? It can be that they purely just have this anxiety, and this anxiety can be solved. It doesn't matter it's straight away BPD! BPD! BPD!

Physical ailments, depressed, etc, it doesn't neccesarily mean there is BPD in play. A screwed up youth doesn't mean it either.

Everyone can get depressed. Everyone, can have severe depressions. From Justin Beaver, to a homeless guy to the President of France. Everyone can get it. No matter the circumstances, or whathever has happened.

Everyone can get into a enormous social isolation.

Everyone can have suicidal tendencies.

I know more people who've had/endured severe depressions, bad youths, having had anxiety issues, etc. who are perfectly fine, in long good relationships than people with the same characteristics who have BPD(!) because BPD goes so much further than this.

[laelle]

People with BPD are human.  They have normal and abnormal behavior.  I probably have just as much disorder as my ex, only I have the ability to have intimacy, not devalue, and not spray verbal garbage when im pissed off.  I am massively insecure tho, jealous and I have some codependency problems that would make you go    None of us are perfect, and we all played a part in our relationships.

They are not monsters. They do love and feel.  They cheat,lie, and break our hearts, but so do people without the illness.

I will always love and respect my ex for what he has shown me about myself, regardless of how things ended.

I understand the need to take digs, heck, check my posts, but I am not sat here in the leaving board anymore trying to think of reasons to hate him. I am on the personal inventory, trying to figure out how to have peace with it and get well myself so that my future relationships can be healthy ones.  

Maybe the love you've shown your ex will help them.  When they look in their emotional dictionary, they will find a love response that you gave them.

[HarmKrakow]

People with BPD are human.  They have normal and abnormal behavior.  I probably have just as much disorder as my ex, only I have the ability to have intimacy, not devalue, and not spray verbal garbage when im pissed off.  I am massively insecure tho, and I have some codependency problems that would make you go    None of us are perfect, and we all played a part in our relationships.

They are not monsters. They do love and feel.  They cheat,lie, and break our hearts, but so do people without the illness.

I will always love and respect my ex for what he has shown me about myself, regardless of how things ended.

I understand the need to take digs, heck, check my posts, but I am not sat here in the leaving board anymore trying to think of reasons to hate him. I am on the personal inventory, trying to figure out how to have peace with it and get well myself so that my future relationships can be healthy ones.  

Maybe the love you've shown your ex will help them.  When they look in their emotional dictionary, they will find a love response that you gave them.

Interesting point of view. Because my therapists would not agree with  you on the 'they do love and feel' part. I purely see that as comforting yourself and feeling sorry for the ex BPD. It's the same as when you fail an exam at junior high, and your mother tells you, don't worry. Due to their disorder there is something else happening what they(!) perceive as love and feel, but that isn't what is 'normally' considered as love and feel and can even be put in the order of sociopath behavior.  

People with BPD cheat, lie and break our hearts completely different to 'sane' people who cheat lie and break our hearts. There is a 180 degree difference which shouldn't be forgotten. One of the biggest differences is the possibility of closure. BPD are emotional immature. They won't give it to you because they are not adult enough to realize 'what is normal' and 'what isn't'.

In regards of the 'will always love and respect' what the ex has shown you, i've been told, whats the point? I seriously feel sorry for every next boyfriend or girlfriend who gets into a relationship with a BPD. I mean that. I really do. These people need help, therapy.

And the core issues is purely the help with teenagers when they face troubles in their youth. Help them, teach them in regards of bipolar, borderline etc. Teach it to them at school, show them in regards of emotional immaturity. For example, make volunteering for the elderly a must(!) for people who go to secondary school and university.

I can assure everyone that this board will only get bigger the coming years because of the economic screwed up situation in the world, whereas teenagers struggle with the enormous rat race of life, competition and 'image' of popstars or scientists or anything. The entire world is becoming more individualistic and screwed up media like facebook, linkedin, whatsapp whatever is only diminishing the 'actual quality' of communication.

[wanttoknowmore]

Harmkarow,

You make some very deep and important points. I was ,also thinking on those lines. If we educate our school children about problems in relationships, behavioral patterns of different personality types and emotional impact of dysfuctional r/s and how to deal with them... . a lot of harm and pain can be prevented. Also, I totally agree about fakebook etc. where lot of people put their fake persona to mislead and deceive others. e.g one woman I know is broke but in her profile pic she is wearing a very very expensive diamond necklace (borrowed from someone for the picture)

Another, who has severe illnesses (advanced cancer,aneurysm etc) and has

profile pic running in sports attire with camera trick of showing someone very athletic and running very fast.  The new research shows that people with narcissistic personality style use fakebook a lot to broadcast to the world how many times they "peed" in last 3 hours as if these are the most pressing issues in front of the world.

[eldee2100]

Deal with it everyday. The daily medical report. Especially is there is something she'd rather not do. But when she has something she wants to do, she snaps out of it like magic was sprinkled on her.

It's like she's a 10 year old who wants to stay home from school, but is ready for playtime later. And since her age classifies her as an adult, I really cant stop it... .  

[Hurt llama]

People with BPD are human.  They have normal and abnormal behavior.  I probably have just as much disorder as my ex, only I have the ability to have intimacy, not devalue, and not spray verbal garbage when im pissed off.  I am massively insecure tho, jealous and I have some codependency problems that would make you go    None of us are perfect, and we all played a part in our relationships.

They are not monsters. They do love and feel.  They cheat,lie, and break our hearts, but so do people without the illness.

I will always love and respect my ex for what he has shown me about myself, regardless of how things ended.

I understand the need to take digs, heck, check my posts, but I am not sat here in the leaving board anymore trying to think of reasons to hate him. I am on the personal inventory, trying to figure out how to have peace with it and get well myself so that my future relationships can be healthy ones.  

Maybe the love you've shown your ex will help them.  When they look in their emotional dictionary, they will find a love response that you gave them.

This is a poignant and beautiful insightful post.

At the end of the day we all have to decide what we will make of our past or present or unknown status with the BPD person... . We ultimately have to make a choice do we love ourselves more and can we somehow see their behaviour in a different light of understanding... . Not out of compassion per se but out of a way for our own personal growth.

I am speaking of this from experiencing the worst psychic pain of my life and now reading how really my story was BPD Lite!

clearly exposure to a severe case of a BPD person can drive some people to the point of no return... . Yes, it's that bad... .   we all have glimpses into it.

The process of healing is complicated and i am still walking through ashes not even knowing how I was and am effected.

There are times that we need to trash them to maybe get it out of our system and maybe it feels like we are doing something when all we are doing is continuing the thought process that will never figure it out unless we change the perspective.

It's really complicated as looking inward is useful but looking too much inward can also be dangerous... .  

[Hurt llama]

People with BPD are human.  They have normal and abnormal behavior.  I probably have just as much disorder as my ex, only I have the ability to have intimacy, not devalue, and not spray verbal garbage when im pissed off.  I am massively insecure tho, and I have some codependency problems that would make you go    None of us are perfect, and we all played a part in our relationships.

They are not monsters. They do love and feel.  They cheat,lie, and break our hearts, but so do people without the illness.

I will always love and respect my ex for what he has shown me about myself, regardless of how things ended.

I understand the need to take digs, heck, check my posts, but I am not sat here in the leaving board anymore trying to think of reasons to hate him. I am on the personal inventory, trying to figure out how to have peace with it and get well myself so that my future relationships can be healthy ones.  

Maybe the love you've shown your ex will help them.  When they look in their emotional dictionary, they will find a love response that you gave them.

Interesting point of view. Because my therapists would not agree with  you on the 'they do love and feel' part. I purely see that as comforting yourself and feeling sorry for the ex BPD. It's the same as when you fail an exam at junior high, and your mother tells you, don't worry. Due to their disorder there is something else happening what they(!) perceive as love and feel, but that isn't what is 'normally' considered as love and feel and can even be put in the order of sociopath behavior.  

People with BPD cheat, lie and break our hearts completely different to 'sane' people who cheat lie and break our hearts. There is a 180 degree difference which shouldn't be forgotten. One of the biggest differences is the possibility of closure. BPD are emotional immature. They won't give it to you because they are not adult enough to realize 'what is normal' and 'what isn't'.

In regards of the 'will always love and respect' what the ex has shown you, i've been told, whats the point? I seriously feel sorry for every next boyfriend or girlfriend who gets into a relationship with a BPD. I mean that. I really do. These people need help, therapy.

And the core issues is purely the help with teenagers when they face troubles in their youth. Help them, teach them in regards of bipolar, borderline etc. Teach it to them at school, show them in regards of emotional immaturity. For example, make volunteering for the elderly a must(!) for people who go to secondary school and university.

I can assure everyone that this board will only get bigger the coming years because of the economic screwed up situation in the world, whereas teenagers struggle with the enormous rat race of life, competition and 'image' of popstars or scientists or anything. The entire world is becoming more individualistic and screwed up media like facebook, linkedin, whatsapp whatever is only diminishing the 'actual quality' of communication.

That's quite a rant there!

I'm wondering how you see yourself healing or moving past your experience. Does it help you to continually vilify the BPD ex?

Trust me, I've been there as you might have seen a thread I made last night about holidays... . I get it and I've been there as recently as a couple of weeks ago.

I'm trying to change my perspective and it's making a huge difference in a short period of time.

The thing that is the most important in my life in surviving a divorce after 17 years of marriage (not BPD) and then surviving the aftermath of breaking up a few times with my BPD gf, is that I do not, cannot and will not allow myself to get bitter.

This is the biggest danger for me personally... .   At the end of the day I care more about myself than my ex and I don't want to go into my next relationship a shadow of my former self.

It's not about them as we can't control another person whether they are BPD or not... . we only have a chance of controlling ourselves.

[ScotisGone74]

I have to agree for the most part with Harm on this.   Yes BPDs are people who do a lot of the same things that other people do, but unfortunately they have NO way of caring truly about anyone but themselves.  I don't believe I am bitter, but certainly not willing to call the ex BPD my good pal or run out to get her baby a gift.  I think alot of us have to villify our exBPD SO's to be able to detach from them in some way, thats not to say we should or its healthy to go around hating them the rest of our lives.  Eventually as part of our healing we let go of the angst we have for them and focus more on ourselves and getting healthy-its not a smooth process and takes a considerable amount of time for this to occur-all while the BPD ex has moved on to marriage, having kids, bragging about their vacations with mr. /mrs. Right to past acquainenances-If we honestly were perfectly OK, happy, and content after a relationship with these people WE would be the CRAZY ones. 

In regards to the illnesses-mine in particular was a mid twenties female with no medical problems-she had all of these different medical 'emergencies' pop up very early in the relationship where I just had to be there, and Not a single one of them ever checked out or were confirmed as some serious problem.  The whole thing was to get my attention, to 'test' me to see if I would be there when she needed me, nothing more.

[HarmKrakow]

People with BPD are human.  They have normal and abnormal behavior.  I probably have just as much disorder as my ex, only I have the ability to have intimacy, not devalue, and not spray verbal garbage when im pissed off.  I am massively insecure tho, and I have some codependency problems that would make you go    None of us are perfect, and we all played a part in our relationships.

They are not monsters. They do love and feel.  They cheat,lie, and break our hearts, but so do people without the illness.

I will always love and respect my ex for what he has shown me about myself, regardless of how things ended.

I understand the need to take digs, heck, check my posts, but I am not sat here in the leaving board anymore trying to think of reasons to hate him. I am on the personal inventory, trying to figure out how to have peace with it and get well myself so that my future relationships can be healthy ones.  

Maybe the love you've shown your ex will help them.  When they look in their emotional dictionary, they will find a love response that you gave them.

Interesting point of view. Because my therapists would not agree with  you on the 'they do love and feel' part. I purely see that as comforting yourself and feeling sorry for the ex BPD. It's the same as when you fail an exam at junior high, and your mother tells you, don't worry. Due to their disorder there is something else happening what they(!) perceive as love and feel, but that isn't what is 'normally' considered as love and feel and can even be put in the order of sociopath behavior.  

People with BPD cheat, lie and break our hearts completely different to 'sane' people who cheat lie and break our hearts. There is a 180 degree difference which shouldn't be forgotten. One of the biggest differences is the possibility of closure. BPD are emotional immature. They won't give it to you because they are not adult enough to realize 'what is normal' and 'what isn't'.

In regards of the 'will always love and respect' what the ex has shown you, i've been told, whats the point? I seriously feel sorry for every next boyfriend or girlfriend who gets into a relationship with a BPD. I mean that. I really do. These people need help, therapy.

And the core issues is purely the help with teenagers when they face troubles in their youth. Help them, teach them in regards of bipolar, borderline etc. Teach it to them at school, show them in regards of emotional immaturity. For example, make volunteering for the elderly a must(!) for people who go to secondary school and university.

I can assure everyone that this board will only get bigger the coming years because of the economic screwed up situation in the world, whereas teenagers struggle with the enormous rat race of life, competition and 'image' of popstars or scientists or anything. The entire world is becoming more individualistic and screwed up media like facebook, linkedin, whatsapp whatever is only diminishing the 'actual quality' of communication.

That's quite a rant there!

I'm wondering how you see yourself healing or moving past your experience. Does it help you to continually vilify the BPD ex?

I'm not being bitter here. There is no point in comparing, 'love/feelings' in a BPD r/s with 'love/feelings' in a normal r/s. Neither intentions or reasons and motives of why they acted like they did.

Trust me, I've been there as you might have seen a thread I made last night about holidays... . I get it and I've been there as recently as a couple of weeks ago.

I'm trying to change my perspective and it's making a huge difference in a short period of time.

The thing that is the most important in my life in surviving a divorce after 17 years of marriage (not BPD) and then surviving the aftermath of breaking up a few times with my BPD gf, is that I do not, cannot and will not allow myself to get bitter.

This is the biggest danger for me personally... .   At the end of the day I care more about myself than my ex and I don't want to go into my next relationship a shadow of my former self.

It's not about them as we can't control another person whether they are BPD or not... . we only have a chance of controlling ourselves.

I don't get bitter. I don't vilify my ex. She couldn't help her behavior. It was fueled purely due to her past.

People who say all bad stuff about their ex to others quickly sound bitter and are often being told; "Mate ... . just move on. Forget about her. Why so bitter? Why say so much bad stuff about her? It's over. Forget about it. Keep yourself together and move on... . "

My point is simple, a break up of a BPD is nothing similar to a break up of a normal r/s. Someone with BPD is seriously mentally ill, to some extent even to a sociopathic behavior. Don't get me wrong, they are not 'monsters' in the sense of that they do it on purpose. A sociopath killer can't be blamed for not feeling remorse or guilt if he or she killed someone. Why? Because their brains are wired differently. Although what they did is horribly wrong, and not acceptible in today's society, we can't blame people like that. Nor do I blame my ex BPD for the way she treated me, walked away without taking any responsibility at all what so ever. The thing is, she is ill. BPD is not something you control in your head. It's more like an instinct.

Of course, the fact we thought we fell in love with the BPD person, and we thought they loved us also says something about us. We obtain our lessons from that, and we move on best we can.

The core are relates to how these people were raised when they were young. This is where we can prevent people of turning into these walking timebombs in today's society.