Apply for extension of OOP or let it lapse?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have had the kids and I on an OOP (Invervention Order in Aust) since 9 September 2009.

Aust don't let you do long periods so each extension is 12 months and has to be awarded, not just automatically granted here unless the police deem a risk.

N/BPDxh has been pretty clean over the last 12 months.

Two cases of following me, one "screaming" voicemail - can't identify it's him but I KNOW it was him, messages through the kids.

I have a feeling that it might not be awarded as easily this time. I need to be represented and L will be a minimum $600. (cannot represent myself in Aust)

N/BPDxh will contest it so there'll be at least 3 court dates that I need to attend - hard to get time off work for these.

All in all, things are working for now. Waiting for family report this month before court next month. N/BPDxh said he wants to settle and not go to court so that would be great financially for me too.

Why I want the order: to feel safe; to know there are repercussions if he approaches me etc; to know he is excluded from the school and kids events; to prevent him from being able to approach me when I take the kids to him at McDonalds for changeover etc... .  

But, he'll fight me for it and most likely apply for one against me, which he has done before.

What do you think I should do? Based on your experience, will things get better, not change, or get worse when you loosen the grip?

[Forward2free]

I have had the kids and I on an OOP (Invervention Order in Aust) since 9 September 2009.

Aust don't let you do long periods so each extension is 12 months and has to be awarded, not just automatically granted here unless the police deem a risk.

N/BPDxh has been pretty clean over the last 12 months.

Two cases of following me, one "screaming" voicemail - can't identify it's him but I KNOW it was him, messages through the kids.

I have a feeling that it might not be awarded as easily this time. I need to be represented and L will be a minimum $600. (cannot represent myself in Aust)

N/BPDxh will contest it so there'll be at least 3 court dates that I need to attend - hard to get time off work for these.

All in all, things are working for now. Waiting for family report this month before court next month. N/BPDxh said he wants to settle and not go to court so that would be great financially for me too.

Why I want the order: to feel safe; to know there are repercussions if he approaches me etc; to know he is excluded from the school and kids events; to prevent him from being able to approach me when I take the kids to him at McDonalds for changeover etc... .  

But, he'll fight me for it and most likely apply for one against me, which he has done before.

What do you think I should do? Based on your experience, will things get better, not change, or get worse when you loosen the grip?

[catnap]

kormilda,

I really do not have any answers, but I feel this is an important question, as many members here do get orders for protection. 

In your place, I think I would try to keep the OOP at least until the divorce is settled because you will not be so stressed and can parent more effectively. 

Hopefully, some more experienced members with experience in this area will reply.

[Forward2free]

Thanks Catnip. Divorce was finalised in 2010 but N/BPDxh has taken me back to court for additional time with the kids. In Aust he can do this as often as he likes if the circumstances have changed. He thinks he's been getting better... .  

Can't block him taking me to court, so this could go on until my youngest is 16 I guess, in 10 years.

N/BPDxh is in a "stable" relationship at the moment so I am not his target, but if that changes, I could be. I can't get a protection order based on what might happen though.

Uggh.

[mamachelle]

Kormilda

Whenever I read your posts I get shivers. I would apply for the extension. It will likely trigger bad behavior ... .   Which would in turn justify the OOP. My exH got better because he moved away and was scared of getting in jail. Also, he has a mark now on his record for child abuse ... .   and the OOP, though lapsed, is still in the state police system for some reason? I don't think he was that often psychotic or sociopathic. Your exH seems like he has those traits prevalent.

Just my .02

Mamachelle

[Forward2free]

Thanks M. We have the family report next week and court in about a month or so. The OOP hearing would be somewhere in the middle so if he needed extra triggers, safe to say he will have them in spades at this time.

I hate letting finances talk me out of the emotions that I feel.

You're right, I will apply, he definitely peaks off the charts and I don't use the term psychopath lightly... .  

He's had no treatment for at least 14 months and the forensic psychologist thinks he needs to go back to supervised visits and treatment - certainly alarming.

Thank you!

[ForeverDad]

Sorry to be slow to respond.  I agree that you should apply so that at least you show consistency in your perspectives.  For example, if you didn't reapply and then an incident happened and you had to make a new application, that might take longer and also they may wonder why you hadn't reapplied or asked for an extension before.

However, the typical perspective of courts is much like first responders.  If nothing has happened recently then it's not seen as urgent or a continuing issue and they want to step back.

However, I subpoenaed the police records and at the same time they both gave him a positive review, he was being charged with stalking ex gf, damaging her property, multiple AVO from her and family etc, same M.O. as his wrath against me.

If you can, you need to get his exgf's charges/orders included as basis so it shows it's not just you who has had problems with him.

[Matt]

What do you think would be a good outcome, without the OOP?

For example:

* Do you think he should commit not to come to your home at any time?

* Do you think he should come to school events but not talk to you at them or sit by you?

* Do you think the current schedule - who the kids are with when - should stay the same or change?

You could make him an offer, saying that you will drop the OOP if he agrees to the outcome you think is best.

[Forward2free]

Thanks FD. He has had other orders taken out against him in that period too. That man's police record is never clear. I agree that not applying may actually look like I no longer have any concerns. Better to apply and be turned down in the eyes of the court.

Really good ideas too Matt.

He has 4 hrs per fortnight with kids now, no calls or other contact so he's never at the school for any events either.

We do have an option in Aust for a Consent Order, which is basically what you are suggesting I think. I state what's acceptable/not acceptable, he agrees and then promises the court he won't do X,Y,Z. Unfortunately, there are no penalties for breaking a promise, but it's certainly something I could consider.

I don't want him near my home or me at any time. Kids - only in compliance with visitation schedule.

I don't want him at the kids school at any time.

If he does approach me or kids or home, I want there to be repercussions so that he toes the line.

I feel like I am being unfair at times. However, I also feel like the OOP has kept us at a safe distance so that there is no way I can knowingly or unknowingly set him off. He can split based on a look that he did or did not get and completely derail.

[Matt]

So maybe you could make a very formal, written offer like that.  If he agrees, you both sign it, and you put the OOP on hold.  If he doesn't agree, or if he violates the agreement, then you seek an OOP.

Make sure any discussions like this are either done through attorneys, or in writing, and are written very carefully.  There should be an expiration date on the offer, so he has to respond in time to go forward with the OOP if his response is not OK for you.

[Forward2free]

How about a letter from my Lawyer something like this? Undertaking wording taken from current order.

The Intervention Order for my client and the children is due to end on xx May 2013.

My client does not wish to let the order lapse, but has offered to accept a private Undertaking between the two parties, on the following basis:

1.   N/BPDxh accepts the private Undertaking no later than 30th April 2013.

2.   If N/BPDxh does not accept the Undertaking by 30th April 2013, Kormilda will apply for an extension of the order.

3.   If N/BPDxh violates any part of the Undertaking, Kormilda will immediately contact the police to pursue an Intervention Order.

Undertaking dated ______

N/BPDxh of Australia agrees to an Undertaking to be prohibited from:

1.   Committing family violence against the protected person(s)  Kormilda, DD7 or DS6 including:

a.   Physical abuse; or

b.   Sexual abuse;

c.   Emotional or psychological abuse; or

d.   Economic abuse; or

e.   Threats; or

f.   Coercion; or

g.   Controlling or dominating behaviour that makes a protected person feel fear for his/her safety or well-being or the safety or well-being of another person; or

h.   Unlawful deprivation of liberty; or

i.   Causing a child/children to be exposed to these behaviours

2.   Intentionally damage the protected person(s) property or threatening to do so.

3.   Follow the protected person(s) or keep him/her/them under surveillance.

4.   Publish on the internet or by email or other electronic communication any material relating to or purporting to relate to or originate from the protected person(s).

5.   Contacting or communicating with the protected person(s), including by telephone, text message or email. Exceptions:

a.   Through a lawyer; or

b.   Subject to any order made by the Family Court or Federal Magistrates’ Court in relation to the children.

6.   Knowingly being at or within 50 metres of the protected person(s). Exceptions:

a.   For the purpose of children’s arrangements but only in accordance with the written arrangements referred to in any order made by the Family Court or Federal Magistrate’s Court.

7.   Going to or remaining within 100 metres of Kormilda's house or any other place where the protected person lives or works.

8.   Causing another person to engage in conduct prohibited by this Undertaking.

9.   Any communication regarding the children must be made in writing to Kormilda's email or negotiated through Lawyers.

This Undertaking will last until varied or revoked by Kormilda.

[Forward2free]

My lawyer is dragging her feet on this and doesn't want to send it to him at this time.

Family report interview was done last week, still waiting on report.

Due in court in 1.5 weeks and order expires in 1.1 weeks.

My legal estimate if we go to court, 25K, which I need to deposit before the court hearing commences. (I don't have 25k)

Family report writer thinks there is more at play with NBPDxh than just Narcissim and BPD, and hinted at Sociopathic tendencies etc which is indicated by his unwavering ability to appear smooth, calm and completely controlled in the face of anyone he's talking with, whilst his actions behind the scenes are abusive, chaotic, aggressive, etc etc etc

He wants to increase time with DD8 and DS6.

She hinted that she wants to reduce time or go back to supervised and set conditions so that he can't take me back to court as easily.

She saw him after me and his appearance between this year and 2 years ago has deteriorated. His hair is long and he doesn't appear well groomed. I told her his appearance has always been an indicator to me of how his mental health is going.

BUT - last report in 2011 she promised a lot to me too and I didn't feel like her views were the same in the report as she'd expressed. She said its a fine line to ask for the stars, but expect the moon so that the judge doesn't throw it all out and bring in a new family report writer because it appears too harsh etc.

I am a nervous wreck. I will have to borrow 25k if we go to trial.

I hope that the report echos what she told me so that NBPDxh agrees to drop his case or settle outside of court. BUT, the timing is so tight that it looks like any negotiation will be on the court steps and will still cost me 15k. I hope too that her recommendation is as she told me so then I have a reason to ask him to cover my legal costs - because he lied to the psychologists to have leave to take me to court and his lies may be his undoing now... .  

So frustrated right now. I really thought the report would be through by now. I am pretty sure NBPDxh will be sweating for the report too so I am hopeful that all of the waiting is just part of the process that we need to go through.

He bought me $90 perfume (from the kids) for mother's day. Hasn't he learnt yet that this will get no response from me and there will be no silver lining for him? Obviously not I guess.

Anyway, I'll be sure to post about the report when it comes in. I think I should also go to court next week to reapply for an intervention order, even just with legal aid, just to show the courts that I am still afraid etc.

Sometimes I REALLY hate this situation and these circumstances.

[mamachelle]

My lawyer is dragging her feet on this and doesn't want to send it to him at this time.

Family report interview was done last week, still waiting on report.

Due in court in 1.5 weeks and order expires in 1.1 weeks.

My legal estimate if we go to court, 25K, which I need to deposit before the court hearing commences. (I don't have 25k)

Family report writer thinks there is more at play with NBPDxh than just Narcissim and BPD, and hinted at Sociopathic tendencies etc which is indicated by his unwavering ability to appear smooth, calm and completely controlled in the face of anyone he's talking with, whilst his actions behind the scenes are abusive, chaotic, aggressive, etc etc etc

He wants to increase time with DD8 and DS6.

She hinted that she wants to reduce time or go back to supervised and set conditions so that he can't take me back to court as easily.

I think I should also go to court next week to reapply for an intervention order, even just with legal aid, just to show the courts that I am still afraid etc.

Sometimes I REALLY hate this situation and these circumstances.

Kormilda,

I really get so annoyed too when the attorneys and professionals are so calm and I am seeing danger. It's like time speeding up and they are all moving in slow motion.

Until you get the report--- there is not much you can do right? It's an awful catch-22... .  

I would apply for the intervention order and tell your L you are doing this unless there is some reprecussion I am not seeing... .  

 mamachelle