Parental alienation stuff starting again.

[ennie]

I am an SM of two girls who have birthdays this month, so they will soon be SD13 and SD9.  Based on her BF's report of a psychologist's diagnosis, we are fairly certain she has BPD.  I have been with DH 6 years.  Phew.  He has 50/50 custody, and has from the very beginning, with a variety of plans.

We are dealing with bad parental alienation attempts, most of which have not been successful, but are problematic at the moment.  I want to tell a longish story, so ignore this if it is too long for you... .   but I could use some perspective. 

Mom is really into attempts to alienate the kids from their dad... .   everything ranging from creating stories about him not taking care of them that are really true about her (e.g., when they were home ill 30 days during one school year, she said that they were always sick at dads, though most of the illnesses seemed related to her chain smoking and very stressful, late night lifestyle)... .   to constantly badmouthing him to her friends in front of the kids, to threatening to kill her self or run away without the kids because he has "ruined" her life.  They have been separated 8 years, and she can still really turn on the drama and blame him.  She has never been able to hold a job or house (when he met her she was 29 and living in her economy car with her dog, never had a job); so now when she gets fired after a month it is his fault.  She also constantly told the kids that she was going to get full custody and move to another state, and she visited that state frequently at first, often leaving the kids with little notice and being gone a few weeks or a month during her custody time, so the kids would stay with us. 

Things got to their worst about two years ago during custody litigation, during which she basically manipulated the kids (or really, SD13) into saying that DH's grandma had abused the kids... .   DH and I were present at the time, and this clearly did not happen; SD9 told us a week after the alleged report to mom that her sister and mom had made her lie, that nothing bad happened other than she saw her grandma's posterior when she walked in on her bathing.  Grandma is an older, conservative, and modest woman who dealt with this awkwardly, but the kids thought it was funny and told us about it at the time.  The "report" from mom to CPS occurred the day after she received the custody evaluation which indicated she is emotionally unstable. 

At the eleventh hour in custody litigation, mom was willing to negotiate to avoid having a judge review the large amount of evidence in the case about her drinking and instability.  She agreed to pretty much everything in the custody evaluation, which recommended that she could have 50/50 custody if she had no more than 2 weeks at a time with the kids and if she had court-ordered therapy.  There were other recommendations, too.  We used as a template a "high conflict" parenting plan provided by a psychologist we sought out, so it dealt with many details.  The plan specifies written communication only between the parents.



Once we had a solid parenting plan, things leveled out for the kids.  DH has done much better at not taking BPDex's raging calls, and the kids thus hear no conflict with mom at our home.  The past year has been great for the kids.  Both kids have been close to both DH and I.  Over the past year SD13 has also really stopped being so enmeshed with mom and also has been less susceptible to mom's alienation attempts, and stopped saying she wanted to live only with mommy.  SD9 has been a little more susceptible to mom's alienating behaviors, but her line all along was "I love all my parents, and I wish that daddy, mommy, and ennie could all live in one big house together." 

A few months ago, things started to shift.  First, mom became convinced she wanted to change the custody schedule, though she demanded the current schedule.  DH said he would consider it but needed a written proposal, which he and I ended up writing, and that he would only discuss it with a third party present.  BPDex proceeded to get the kids to say that their lives were terrible with the current plan (when the opposite was clearly the case--better grades, happier, etc. the fewer transitions they had), and that they would only be happy with the specific plan mommy wanted. 

In the mediation session with DH, BPD mom just could not control herself, and spent the time raging about how he ruined her life, and how she has always hated the mediator and will never work with her again... .   so mom did not get to change the schedule, because there are specific things in the parenting plan that need to be changed if that happens, and she could not bring herself to discuss them. 

Then she had pneumonia for 2 months, and SD13 though that her mom was going to die.  Suddenly, things are right back to alienation central.  Yesterday, SD13 (who as at mom's house) yelled at her dad in a totally grown-up voice that she is "not going to suck up to him any more", that she is over it, and she wants to only live with mommy, and she does not love him.  Last week after the kids left our home I found a note from SD9 to SD13 stating that she does not love DH and me and wants to live only with mommy. 

Clearly, there is something going on at mommy's house.  I really have no idea what.  She has stopped living at the stable, older woman's home that had been a great influence on the kids, and has been "housesitting" for a sugar daddy/BF who is out of town for three months, sometimes crashing at her other older BF's house.  So life is less stable, surely.  The kids do poorly in school while with mom, but really pick it up during the two weeks with us.  But again, we are the bad guys who make them do homework, dishes, and not eat too much sugar or stay up too late or watch too many movies, etc. 

But it is really painful to have it be back to this after such a great year.  I really thought we were out of that alienation phase, and now SD13 is totally hormonal AND acting like her dad and I are ruining her life.  Mostly, she loves us by the end of our time with her, and is thriving.  But last time was spring break, and we had to cancel the last three days of our trip due to DH having work emergencies, so the kids were home with me alone, where none of us wanted to be.  I made the best of it, but we had a less fun end to the two weeks than normal. 

Finally, this follows a time during which SD9 was really focused on me as a parent and in which mom let her down in some big ways--SD9 wanted to do a project with me, and she loved it, and wanted it to go to mom's house... .   which it did, and mom became furious about it.  So some of this is a backlash in which the kids are again trying to prove their loyalty to mom. 

From my perspective, this is painful (particularly with SD9 who has up until now been so loyal to DH and I as well as her mom), but my attitude is "well, kids with a disturbed mom are going to have some hard times in their teens, and they need good parenting during that time, so let's make sure we are rested, as a happy as possible, and give it our best shot."  DH, on the other hand, wants to talk with SD13 about why she can't live only at mom's, and to let her know that he might be willing to change his mind if mom has a better situation and better behavior. He takes things so much more personally.  When I hear a child say, "I only want to live with mommy,"  I think, "That must be hard.  Do your homework."  Whereas he thinks, " What have I done wrong?  How bad to you want this?"  He treats SD13 like she has more of her faculties than she actually has.  I think he is half seriously considering letting her live with mom. 

This would be fine if it were not for the impact on SD9, who has never been mommy's favorite, and if she stayed on a 50/50 schedule, it would be awful for her to see SD13 so close with mommy and her left out... .   but if she stayed with us, she would feel like mommy and her sister do not love her... .   and if she was full time with mom, it would be devastating I think, and she would probably feel totally abandoned by DH and I, who despite her recent written record, I think feels way more connected to daddy and I as parents than she does with her mom, who up until this year has always made it clear that SD9 is not her favorite. 

In sum, my instinct is just to ride through this rough patch.  For all her bluster, SD13 is willing to respond to boundaries, and usually is later overtly grateful for them.  I think she is just dealing with the combination of hormones and mom having a hard time.  But if DH really takes this seriously, then what?  Ultimately, if he cannot swing it, that will be the deciding factor.  I do not think he will bail out after all we have been through in the custody litigation, but he sounds really defeated and like he is just tired of the kids telling him they do not want him and do not love him (though they also say they love him often). 

[DreamGirl]

Ugh.

Weren't they in therapy?

I think a third party professional really helps in this kind of stuff.

DH, on the other hand, wants to talk with SD13 about why she can't live only at mom's, and to let her know that he might be willing to change his mind if mom has a better situation and better behavior. He takes things so much more personally.  When I hear a child say, "I only want to live with mommy,"  I think, "That must be hard.  :)o your homework."  Whereas he thinks, " What have I done wrong?  How bad to you want this?"  He treats SD13 like she has more of her faculties than she actually has.  I think he is half seriously considering letting her live with mom.  

 

I think you're in the right. It's a tactic of a 13 year old to get her way... .   perhaps a learned behavior from a Mama who struggles in the same capacity.

I think it's important that the feelings of the children with a BPDparent not be dismissed. They'll get plenty of being told how they feel from the disordered parent.  

I might try something along the lines of "I know that you want to live with Mom right now, but you seem to say that when we fight or you're angry. Let's take that off the table and see how you feel in two weeks. If you feel the same as you do right now, then we can discuss it then."

Feelings are fleeting. If she gets stuck on Dad saying "no way", then she might get hyperfocused on the idea rather the the reality of what it is that she wants/needs.

I'm sorry this is happening again. Alienation is such a difficult pattern of behavior to combat.

-DG

[ennie]

Yes, DG, they WERE in therapy.  SD9 still is.  But after the custody evaluator recommended they continue to see the T that BPDex originally recommended, she went to the T session with both girls and in front of them totally trashed the T, telling her she was terrible at her job, did not care about the kids but only about money, and so forth.  So enmeshed SD13 told the T she did not want to see her any more, and the T said that she would not see a kid who did not want to see her.  SD9 still sees her, though on transition days says "Maybe I want a different T, because T is not the best therapist."  BTW, T IS actually thought of as the best and most trusted child T in town, and is one of 6 custody evaluators in our area. 

I agree that it really helps when there is a T involved, and SD13 has actually been saying she wants a T that does not know mom or dad.  Mom was totally convinced their last T was friends of ours because a shared an office with 3 women in the same large building where T had her office, before the kids saw that T... .   I only used the office twice in a year, so let it go... .   and I had never met the T before the kids started seeing her.  So I have been urging DH to start looking for a T... .   but he has done nothing, so here we are... .   I think he does not see it as important as I do.  I have really noticed that the times that SD13 really freaks out and parrots mom are always when she has not seen the T for a few months. 

[Thunderstruck]

When I read this I just think to myself "They're children. They shouldn't have to make these kinds of decisions." It's not their burden to bear, ya know? Teenagers are going to rebel, they're going to hate everything. A teenage daughter can't relate to her dad as well as her mom. So I could probably understand her wanting to be with her mom. Especially if the rules are lax over there and she's the golden child. I'd probably just tell her that the court decided 50/50 so that's where it stands. I wouldn't even open the door to her being able to choose. (That's not to say her mom won't tell her that it's her decision... .   but that's just too much pressure on a child). I would definitely ask her why she feels this way and validate her feelings.

I would guess SD9 is going to be influenced probably more by her sister than her mom. She would want to be where her sister is.

Alienation sucks.  Ride it out for awhile, it doesn't seem irreversible right now. Love the crap out of them, take care of them. They'll come back around.

[DreamGirl]

I agree that it really helps when there is a T involved, and SD13 has actually been saying she wants a T that does not know mom or dad.  Mom was totally convinced their last T was friends of ours because a shared an office with 3 women in the same large building where T had her office, before the kids saw that T... .   I only used the office twice in a year, so let it go... .   and I had never met the T before the kids started seeing her.  So I have been urging DH to start looking for a T... .   but he has done nothing, so here we are... .   I think he does not see it as important as I do.  I have really noticed that the times that SD13 really freaks out and parrots mom are always when she has not seen the T for a few months.  

This is the hardest part of all being a stepmom. Your SD would benefit greatly from therapy, it will keep her grounded in reality rather then in what her mom's twisted perception presents to her.  

Being in a relationship with a pwBPD (ANY type of a relationship) is a smoke and mirrors existence. You really start questioning what's real and what's not. My stepkids' mama believes her truth, even when there is not any validity whatsoever to what she's saying. My husband and myself are good at pinging off each other to help keep each other grounded. We, actually, have two very different and separate relationships with her. His is more of an enmeshed one and mine is light and superficial.

Therapists who treat BPD will even get outside consultation to help keep them grounded.  

I hope your hubs can come around to obtaining a centering force for your SD. Let her sort her emotions/feelings as to what are her own and not some product of how her mom feels (or dad).

I got in a very strange discussion over the weekend with my SD10 about a pair of sneakers that she had deemed "unwearable". After lots of validation and inquiry, SD10 admitted that it was her mom's perception that had her demanding that I buy her a new pair (for a class trip) and not really her own. Mom had somehow got it stuck in her head that she needed a new pair for the trip and brought her daughter into that reality. I just want my SD to have the cognitive ability to form her own opinion on the matter. To which she did - saying the shoes were worn, still wearable, but would last a little while longer and then we'd get her a new pair.   I think it's OK that her mom didn't like the sneakers... .   but that doesn't mean that I'm the one that has to buy her new ones when I think the ones she has are just fine. If Mama wants to buy her new sneakers, that's great. But making her daughter believe that she can't even wear them in an attempt to get me to buy new ones to help mom feel better about them isn't an option for me.    

I simply can not imagine having to do that about her Dad rather then a pair of sneakers.

I agree with Thunderstruck in that kids don't have the skill set to actually be making these kinds of decisions and you simply can't keep arguing over the next 5 years with SD13 as to who she's going to live with. If you were in a nuclear family, it simply wouldn't be an option - a 13yo wouldn't tell Dad to move out because they weren't getting along.

I might express that sentiment to both the kids and Mama. "We agreed to 50/50 and that's what we're going to do. No more discussing it."

If Mom brings it up - tell her that 50/50 is working for everyone but her. If she has a problem with it, she needs to follow proper protocol in presenting a different schedule. Otherwise, don't bring it up - and if she does, you won't engage in the discussion.  

If Kiddo brings it up - tell her that he's sorry she's wanting the schedule to be different, but you're a family and in your family, you work on solutions not run away from them.  

[ennie]

When I read this I just think to myself "They're children. They shouldn't have to make these kinds of decisions." It's not their burden to bear, ya know? Teenagers are going to rebel, they're going to hate everything. A teenage daughter can't relate to her dad as well as her mom. So I could probably understand her wanting to be with her mom. Especially if the rules are lax over there and she's the golden child. I'd probably just tell her that the court decided 50/50 so that's where it stands. I wouldn't even open the door to her being able to choose. (That's not to say her mom won't tell her that it's her decision... .   but that's just too much pressure on a child). I would definitely ask her why she feels this way and validate her feelings.

I would guess SD9 is going to be influenced probably more by her sister than her mom. She would want to be where her sister is.

Alienation sucks.  Ride it out for awhile, it doesn't seem irreversible right now. Love the crap out of them, take care of them. They'll come back around.

thanks for the perspective... .   my thoughts are that I just need to get as replenished and happy as possible in the ten days before they are back with us, and just let them know I love them as is.  Just to keep being willing to set boundaries that create a happy home and let them know I love them however they feel, act, whatever their response is, but that I will personally be solid on both fronts.  Just because that is who I am.   And to encourage DH to get more solid and be clear within himself, so he is not batted around by it all so much. 

[ennie]

DG--thanks to you also for a perspective.  You guys really helped.  The night this came up for DH I suggested that he just feel how he felt about SD13 saying what she said, maybe journalling about it, but that I did not want to talk about it right now.  He went to our little guest house and spent the night alone, writing and thinking before bed and when he woke up.  He seems more settled now.  Also, friends of ours pointed out that his parents sort of abandoned him and his brother at that age, intentionally and unintentionally--his mom had a serious illness and his brother was "too difficult" and so went to live with his dad, and he stayed and his step-dad ultimately kicked him out when his mom was recovering as he saw him as a threat to her health.   Really painful for him.  So I think there is a way he does not have that "no matter what" feeling about parenting that I have.  For me, I have committed to these kids and so I just have to suck it up, to keep finding solutions and do my best to feel what I feel, be as happy as possible, etc.  So long as DH is committed to them.  And it is very unsettling to feel him waver, as there is some way it is very seductive... .   when SD13 is being really mean, it sounds nice to having her live somewhere else... .   but it just feels so unsettling and disturbing to keep going there when we no longer need to... .   isn't that what the litigation was about? 

And if it is unsettling to me, how unsettling must this be to the kids?  If BM wants to try to get more time with the kids, she will have to initiate it this time.  And this time, unlike last time, we have some much more potent allies and information on our side.  So if she wants more time with them, she will most likely get less.  We are a lot clearer at this point in many ways about what the legal system can do and cannot do for us. 

So realistically, while it seems like SD13 towing mom's line has some power behind it, realistically, it does not unless DH grants it power. 

Ultimately, I think DH is more solid than he seems... .   he just gets overwhelmed and is not afraid to consider even the most serious options... .   a quality I find challenging at times, as it keeps me guessing constantly.  But when the dust clears, he is willing over and over again to love the kids through the hard times, and often knows just the right things to say in the process that let the kids know they are loved and not the boss without getting into a power struggle. 


Thanks, guys. 

[ennie]

A little update... .   so we found out that SD9 has a baseball game today.  DH asks if I want to go, and I think about it and realized I am emotionally spent from dealing with the drama, and need some time off.  He says that seems like a good idea, but he goes.  He gets there and SD13 will not look at him, is totally cold.  BPDmom ignores him, too.  When he goes to congratulate SD9 on her game, she hugs him, then says "Your breath stinks." 

He just got home and is crying.  I feel terrible. 

I am just having a hard time maintaining a good mood in the face of all of this, and I feel like I really need some recovery time if I am going to be emotionally resilient when the kids are back.  Not sure what to do.  I see that this is so painful for him, and it is also painful for me, both the kids feelings, but also how intensely it is affecting my beloved husband and friend.  Also, it means he is upstairs crying and when he feels sad he does not want to talk about it or interact.  So I am hearing him and in the house with him but it is hard and painful.  Not sure what to do. 


I am just tired of it being hard so much.  I would just love a year where there is no major crisis with the kids. 

[NorthernGirl]

Oh Ennie, that is so sad.    I feel for your DH. It is so hard to deal with, even if you can imagine where the bitterness is coming from. And I know how draining all of this can be on you.

I think one of the hardest things as a stepmom to kids whose mom is BPD is seeing the kids get hurt over and over. They get hurt by the words they hear from their mom -- who paints them black & white. They get hurt wondering if their dad (or stepmom) is as bad as their mom says.  And then as "just the stepmom" we have to decide how much of our energy we will spend on all of this.

When DH found out that SS20, who has been to 4 addiction treatment programs, had been caught drinking he called him. SS20 said the reason he had gone drinking was because he was stressed "and since NorthernGirl came into your life, I can't talk to you anymore." DH got that this was a deflection, but it still hurt. We have done a lot trying to help SS20 but we can't lead him away from his mom, who is a terrific enabler and master manipulator. She allows him to drink at her place because she says "he is cured" because he went to the program she recommended, and he credits her with being cured. She buys him lots of electronics and clothes as a reward.

I have to constantly decide how much energy to give to all of this because it is very draining. I hope you are able to look after yourself, rejuvenate and then decide what you want to do next. Good luck and keep posting so we know how you are doing.   

[ennie]

Northern girl--thanks sweet pea.  That really helps.

One of the things about DH is that he deals with pain by really retreating into himself in a way that is really painful for me to experience.  We are very close, but also independent... .   but for him to pull himself into a ball and shut me out is unusual and hard for me. 

At first I tried to reach out to him and hold him, then i tried to make some quiet space for myself by asking him to walk the dog... .   then he was too upset to do anything, and I ended up expressing anger, not so much at him, but at how we empower this bull---t story that the kids do not love him, that we are doing something bad.  That is baloney.  The kids are upset at her home because something upsetting is happening there... .   maybe as simple as not enough sleep and too much sugar, or as bad as mom getting a DUI or raging at someone, maybe even the kids, WHO KNOWS, but even with teen hormones, SD13 does not act mean unless she is feeling bad inside, and she rarely feels that way when she eats well, gets sleep, gets exercise or outside experience, and is caught up in school.  When she is not being taken care of, she is sometimes mean.  Mostly, that is at moms or at certain moments at our place.  And it is not about not loving her dad... .   if she did not love him, it would be neutral, and if she was angry for a reason, she would say it.  The only reason in this instance is about what is happening with mom, and it is feeling bad at this point . So I got angry when DH said the kids do not love him, said that is baloney, and I am tired of our homelife being jacked around by some made up story that is not even true.  Just bull---t. 

So he felt hurt and angry that I got mad when he is clearly in a lot of pain, and we argued briefly, and then we sat on the couch and I held him while he cried.  And then we talked about where his feeling is coming from, what feelings he has had in the past that taste like this.  And he went into all these ways he was left alone at different times, and he just cried and cried.  And then he felt better.  And I felt better, like I had my best friend back.  And then we read some pithy quotes about what creates duration, about hanging in for the long term, and how things change and duration happens when you are willing to be steady and gentle when things change. 

I think part of all of this is that parenting brings out our deepest wounds, and we have the opportunity to avoid them or to heal them.  For DH, he is a biodad who is dealing with working through how he was abandoned by his parents... .   for me, I am a step mom who is dealing with the fear that I will not be enough unless I am there for all these people. 

I am not sure if I did the right thing tonight.  But it felt right, to help DH through it when he wanted to just push me away.  But what do I want here?  What I want is some time in which my feeling of happiness at the beautiful spring, my joy just to be alive, gets to be the dominant feeling of our home... .   where there is not some crisis, where I just get to look at the green of the leaves and feel the sense of boundless energy and possibility.  Why is it that I let this very powerful experience of being in the moment, enjoying it all, be completely squashed by the drama?  I love my husband, and I know how painful it is when we feel the kids dark anger focused on us... .   we are doing so little wrong, and are receiving so much of the kids natural rage at being the victim of their mom.  I mean, we are doing SOME bad things, like not letting the kids eat more than their weight in chocolate at easter, and not allowing unlimited time playing video games, and taking them to school.  But other than that, things are pretty good here. 

But how is it that all of that yucky misplaced darkness can replace my feeling of deepest gratitude so easily?

[Thunderstruck]

I know it was really painful, but he did the right thing by attending the game. His actions will counteract her words. I fully believe in that. If he hadn't gone then BM could have used that to further her alienation... .   "See, your father doesn't even care about you. Blah blah blah"

I know it's hard to understand, how the children could start to turn like this. Those Blines, they implant doubt worms into people's brains. At first your resistance to the doubt worm is strong, but they persist over and over and over and never give it a rest. They so fully believe their stories that they make it the truth. It's hard enough for adults to resist, let alone young impressionable children. They're supposed to be listening and learning from their parents, after all.

It's difficult. I would suggest that you be DH's reassurance. Just keep telling him that the kids don't hate him, it's just temporary, they love him, whatever will put his mind at ease. This is very emotional for him and you need to be the shield to block his doubt worms too. And us on bpdfamily.com can be your doubt worm shields.

I just got an awesome reply to one of my topics from an adult survivor who has been where your DSD's are right now. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=198947.0;topicseen

[ennie]

Thunderstruck, your words are very helpful to me right now.  We have been through this several times before, and in my heart I know that they just need to know we are going to love them through it, and not let them run us over in the process.  They need to know they can lash out without destroying us, but that we will help them figure out how to express that anger in a way that feels better. 

The hard thing is that we HAVE been through this before several times, and it has been almost a year since the last hard time for the kids, whereas before it was every few months.  I do think part of this has to do with SD13 not having a T, part of it has to do with normal teen hormones, and partly something intense that happened at mom's house.  When SD13 is upset, she is really difficult right now, and BPD mom DOES NOT deal well with difficult.  So I am sure that something happened, mom flipped, and SD13 salvaged it in the only way she knows how... .   throw dad under the bus. 

It is just hard to have this happen when she is at mom's; usually it is triggered at the end of a stay with mom, so we deal with it sooner rather than later... .   with lots of times to fester and gather speed, the story is bound to be bigger by the time it gets here.  Last time the story was that the kids were sexually abused by grandma... .   let's hope things are not so specific this time. 

[DreamGirl]

ennie,

There is a Zen story that basically tells of a man walking and he meets a ferocious tiger... .   so he starts running only to come to a cliff... .   so he climbs down a vine and is stuck on the side of the cliff... .   only to have two mice start chewing on the vine... .   so he looks around to see a strawberry, plucks the strawberry and thinks "what a delicious strawberry!".

Yeah.

I call baloney bull---t too.

This stuff is hard, we are all sometimes hanging from a cliff, too tired and worn down to eat a stupid strawberry and enjoy it's deliciousness. Forgive yourself of that, ennie.

We are human and we feel pain and hurt. It wears you down and that old familiar feeling of hopelesness awakens in our hearts. The persistence of the pwBPD in my life is astonishing to me. I have to give her credit that she is relentless - if only she used her power for good!

Here you are, 3 years later from when you arrived, and you are dealing with the same tactics Mama likes to use to soothe her own core wounds. Its her driving force, this fear of hers, and it just showers down on the rest of us like the ashes of a volcano. It makes the air thick and the sunshine hard to see.

I don't know if you remember advice that you gave me so long ago about "fear" and that I literally carry with me often. It was a story you told me of kayaking along the river and when fear/doubt crept into you, you reminded yourself that "I can do this" and to trust in yourself - that trust is more powerful then fear. That light is more powerful then dark.

You often have reminded me to have faith. A blind faith that everything will be OK. 

From years ago, your own words to live by 

I do not think the answer is to run away screaming.  It may be at some point, but not now.  But the answer MUST be to have faith that letting go of some of my "responsibilities" is going to be okay--that I will be loved, at least by myself, probably by my partner; that it will be okay if he fails at stuff; that he chose this situation and has to figure his own way out of it. 

The middle way is always the trickiest.  Leaving would decrease all the stress for me, so quickly.  I am good at recovering from sadness, I do not need a partner to be happy.  And to stay and work myself into the ground would be painful, but would let me get away with not having to take responsibility for my own needs and grown-up self.  The middle way is choosing my own path, and trusting it.  It just seems so hard to see that path at times in all the noise of drama and kids and my partner's wounds, not to mention my own fears. 

Long and short of it, I am going to try to walk that path.  Some of the words we use in talking about this stuff on this board come from a psychological place that while I appreciate, I think is limited (I am the daughter of two therapists and a client of more of 'em, so I am all for psychology).  Psychology focuses on fixing things as if we know what is wrong with us, as if there is anything wrong.  It seems more useful and real to me that we actually have no idea who we are supposed to be.  We are feeling our way in the dark, and that faith leads us down our right path.  Our greatest weaknesses are our greatest strengths, so it is impossible to weed out the things that we "should" be from those we "shouldn't."  I, too, often wish I had come into this after their divorce was final, after some of the pain had eased, etc.  But I am grateful I have been here to model for the kids loving their dad, seeing and naming his strengths, and setting boundaries with their mom without hating her. 

The growth comes not from fixing the bad, but from feeling our way to the next step along the road, not being afraid to have your internet friend tell you you don't know yourself, not being afraid to make choices not knowing the outcome.  Though my spiritual path is rather vague and ill-defined, not to mention poorly tended, I do have a sense of deep faith that we are all who we ought to be, and that what we are will change, and that openness and willingness to see how we impact ourselves and each other helps us to change in a more yummy way, instead of a more yucky way.  So thanks for your wonderful, insightful, knowing, trusting words.  I wept as I read your response to my long blather, and shared your response with my partner, who was glad that you are a friend to me.  So thanks.  Had a good cry last night in my partner's arms, feeling my vulnerability and inadequacy to the tasks before me.  It is okay that there is some stuff I just can't do, at least not all at once. 

You are one of the most amazing people I know.

You will get thru this.

Tomorrow will be better. It always is.

~DreamGirl

[ennie]

DG--thank you so much, sweetness.     

[NorthernGirl]

Ennie -- thank you for being so open and honest in sharing where you are and how you are coping. Whether you realize it or not, people like me are reading along hoping the best for you and also learning ourselves how to cope with the next wave we know will come.

I love the words you used in your previous quote about the journey you are on. I feel as I read information from you, from DreamGirl and from others on the board I grow just a little, and I can see I have a long way to go on my own journey. There is no handbook for us. We can only do our best and learn as we go.

A few years ago I took a number of coaching courses and one thing we learned was how to help clients delve into a tough subject. We were taught how to support them as they walked through the issue but how not to rescue them. I was pulled out of the class to act as a subject for this coaching technique and was helped through a tough topic and the day ended with my tears. The next day my classmates were all asking "are you doing okay?" They thought I was still back where I was the day before, still experiencing the pain. Meanwhile I had worked things out and totally moved on. So I shared with the class how I believe I was pulled out for this exercise so that I could learn that when I finished a coaching session, the clients didn't stay stuck or upset. They worked it out, just like I had. I still need to be reminded sometimes that I am not here to rescue anybody.

You are strong, able and grounded. You will find a way to work this out by doing the best you can. And people like me will learn from you and we will also be here to help you if we can. 

[whirlpoollife]

I feel for you and DH. I have s14 and d12. They were my shadows and very close to me. Last week d12 was with a friend of mine. D12 poured out to her the hatred she has for me. Let her know that her dad let's her do anything, that I lie , and she feels she is the adult and I 'm the teenager now. ( that's because I got my hair colored and wear skinny jeans that x2bnever allowed).  I feel like I m living with H thru my D. That the times the kids aren't with me I need to build myself up again... .   H is relentless to h ave the kids hate me, their mom plus teeange hormones mixed in makes matters worse.   Words of hope I get from family who have seen friends go thru this is the kids will eventually see thru it.

[ennie]

Northern girl--wow, I am just really grateful to you for calling attention to the ways that we touch each other and grow through our struggles.  Thanks for that. 

You talking about the coaching experience makes me aware of how much what we are doing is really inventing a path anew, without a handbook and without a known outcome.  There is a way that parenting is like that in general, but it seems like being a step-parent with a BPD mom, or even a mom with a BPD dad(whirlpool), or a dad with a BPD mom paints all the challenges in high relief, or adds that extra splash of pain that yanks us out of automatic and makes us create it from scratch. 

I am struck in dealing with this and relating to you all that I am learning something about impossible predicaments, or at least that there is something I WANT to learn more about myself and others... .   I have worked with a therapist for years who is really into Karpman triangles, and though people here bandy about the "rescue" term and apply it to various helping behavior, this T has worked with DH and I for a number of years and does not see me as "rescuing" per se.  My old therapist (who died) was really interested in noticing the places we are powerless and just feeling that feeling; that there are some places we are powerless. 

We want a clear prescription, "Stop rescuing," set boundaries, etc. 

One of the things I have noticed in this, partly just being in a family, partly dealing with the chaos that I did not create or have a hand in, partly dealing with the lack of role definition that is inherent in being an SM, is that a lot of the person-as-individual model I was raised with does not fit quite right.  While the Karpman triangle (the idea that we move between roles of victim, persecutor, and rescuer) is useful, it is based on that premise that people are separate individuals engaged in a dynamic.  My parents are both psychologists, and I remember my dad saying "You are not the target," when I took personally his anger.  One of the things I am learning from being in a family is that we are all so intertwined.  I find it useful to use "I" communication, to make requests rather than blame, to ACT like I am separate, and darn it if I don't wish my DH would do more of that!  But at the same time, we are swimming in energetic seas and having such an impact on each other all the time, that it is important to feel and notice that aspect, too.  It does not mean I am trapped, but that there is a path of least resistance for the system as a whole that may not line up with my expectations or imaginary trajectory.  And that this path has weight and consequences.  I am a person who is pretty okay with being somewhat powerless, but have also had a lot of faith in my capacity to remain somewhat free and independent inside (e.g., going down the giant river in my little boat, feeling scared but making up a song to make it feel safe or okay for it not to be safe).  But being in a family where I am deeply attached and I really love these people, I do not always have the presence of mind to make up that little song.  I feel powerless over my emotional reaction. 

In some ways, I think this just means I have a lot to learn.  But one of the things I am learning is that I am not powerful in some ways, that some feelings just happen when you see other people hurt if you are a feeling, alive being.  We are not separate in that way.  And feeling that way does request action.  I think "rescuing" is trying to avoid that feeling by taking action; but when one feels into that pain and connectedness a little more peacefully and willingly, there still is a call for action.  But considered action includes everyone in it, including myself.  It includes awareness of my limits, what I can do and can't do, and awareness of the kids' mom and what she can and can't do, and who the kids and my husband are, too.  Maybe I do not know enough to make a great response, but if I stay open, I will learn.  And at these times I pray things like, "Let me be useful to all beings," and "may God (or whoever!) use me to help the people in my life in the most whole way." 

I think one thing I have learned is that I cannot be in a lot of emotional pain for long without getting depleted, and that being around kids and a husband in pain is SOO depleting. 

When depleted, it is easier to fit into a role (vicitm, rescuer, persecutor) that to create it from scratch.  But when I am not depleted, there still are these moments when we have hard choices.  "I really want to be alone or to be enjoying a quiet night with DH, and DH is super emotional and sharing a bedroom with me.  Do I leave, thereby adding to his fear and stress but taking care of me, or do I spend some time with him, loving him the best I can, in the hopes that he will let go of some of his pain enough to just sit and read next to me?"  For me to coldly pursue my agenda is not the only way of doing it, though sometimes I just NEED that!  By being there for him when he was really upset, we went deeper in our relationship and things have been easier since, because he is open in a way that makes HIM want to learn how to connect to his teenage daughter in a way that he does not yet know how to do, and this reduces the stress on me of having to be more primary as a parent because I have more capacity, when his kids are really needing him. 

It is a funny balance.  Last week, I did more of the fleeing up to our little guest house, and being alone.  This week, I am hanging in there a little more and it feels good, not like a rescue but like being around for a process that I am part of.   

[ennie]

I feel for you and DH. I have s14 and d12. They were my shadows and very close to me. Last week d12 was with a friend of mine. D12 poured out to her the hatred she has for me. Let her know that her dad let's her do anything, that I lie , and she feels she is the adult and I 'm the teenager now. ( that's because I got my hair colored and wear skinny jeans that x2bnever allowed).  I feel like I m living with H thru my D. That the times the kids aren't with me I need to build myself up again... .   H is relentless to h ave the kids hate me, their mom plus teeange hormones mixed in makes matters worse.   Words of hope I get from family who have seen friends go thru this is the kids will eventually see thru it.

That hurts, huh?  But how great that she has you as a mom, and gets to see you let go, move on, and change, even if that does not have meaning for her now.  And at least she has someone who can receive that anger and "hate" she has for her life that will process these feelings with friends and others, rather than giving her normal teen feelings way too much power.  Good luck.  And, I bet you look great!  After all, it is not how you feel, but how you look that counts... .   and you rook mahvelous!  

[ennie]

Another update... .   while SD13 is still at mom's, SD9 came over last night for an overnight that happens during the custodial parents time. 

DH, SD9, and I went for a long walk, had a picnic, and sat by a river.  The day was an amazing, sunny spring day.  The leaves are all freshly out, and we spotted tons of new flowers we know and love along the trail.  SD9 dipped her feet into the water, and convinced her daddy to wade with her out into the current, pants rolled up, him lifting her across boulders so she could be on the big rock in the middle of the river.  She laughed, relaxed, held my hand all the way to the car on the trail. 

When he picked her up from school, she told her daddy "we want to live at mommy's house," and DH said, "Honey, I love you so much and it is okay however you feel, I will still love you.  But mommy and I have an agreement to have you live with each of us half of the time, and this agreement is signed by the court and is intended to last until you grow up.  Sometimes you will like it, sometimes you won't, but this is how it is. And both your mommy and I love you and your sister and will do our best to take care of you at both houses." 

And she said, "okay." And that was that. 

She woke this morning and cuddled into me where I sat journaling on the couch.  She got her book and the fancy pen I gave her and wanted to write in her journal, too.   She wrote about our adventure at the river, reading me every sentence.  She said she wanted to write it for herself way later, when she was a grown up, so she wrote it in the past.  "Once upon a time I went to the river with my daddy and my stepmom.  I went in the water and begged my dad to come to.  He said, "okay".  I got in and it was so cold so I got out, and my dog would not get in.  My dog has a beard."  We wrote in peace as daddy made breakfast, and then it was time for school and I said goodbye, kissed both of them, and told them I love them, and they said those words to me, too. 

It is amazing how simple it can be. 

I am so grateful for the week that passed since I found SD9's little note saying she did not love me, because I got all the sad out before she returned, so I could just love her and be there to be loved in return. 

[mamachelle]

ennie,

So so good to hear. I've been following your story too. I have to really read and process your posts. Like eating a very rich piece of chocolate cake sometimes.

as dr seuss says... .   Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.

 

mamachelle

[Thunderstruck]

When he picked her up from school, she told her daddy "we want to live at mommy's house," and DH said, "Honey, I love you so much and it is okay however you feel, I will still love you.  But mommy and I have an agreement to have you live with each of us half of the time, and this agreement is signed by the court and is intended to last until you grow up.  Sometimes you will like it, sometimes you won't, but this is how it is. And both your mommy and I love you and your sister and will do our best to take care of you at both houses." 

Perfect, great response, exactly what I would have recommended.

[NorthernGirl]

Ennie -- that sounds so good. I love that you do journalling with your SD and that she is clearly comfortable enough to share what she writes. And I get the concept of needing to rejuvinate and get "the sad out" so that when the kids return you have energy. I also struggle with when I feel the need to be on my own, and when that seems to be unfair to DH.

Once when I was beyond overwhelmed, I took a half day and went for a lovely walk, had a great lunch and felt totally regenerated. I walked in the door where DH and his youngest were waiting for me stressed and anxious. I assured them I was doing great, but they looked sceptical. I didn't realize that DH's ex would have come in screaming if she had gone away like that. I thought I'd tell DH how I was in a much better place and before I could get a couple sentences out he interrupted and provided a long list of excuses and explanations, including telling me a bunch of things were my fault. My good feelings vanished. I knew I had to figure out a better way to give me a break and not have that happen again. It's a tough one to balance but DH is learning that if he allows me some time alone, I can recharge my batteries and have energy to do more.

I have to really read and process your posts. Like eating a very rich piece of chocolate cake sometimes.

mamachelle- I love this... .   and it is so true! Mmmm cake.