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Hi,

My exudBPDw has a new boyfriend. They have been seeing eachother about 3 months. He has already met my kids and they have stayed at his house. I don't really care, because the kids says he's nice and they get along. Of course I checked up on him, because I wanna know who my kids are seeing. He has money, car, great job, 4 kids, but likes to display his trophies on FB. Seems like a classic narcissist... .   Whatever... .   One thing worries me. He has recently displayed a nude photograph of my ex on FB. You can't see her face... . My daughter (13) has now become friends with him on FB and I am a little worried... .  

Should I mention something to my ex in the nicest concerned way, or leave it alone? I'm just worried about the impact it may have on my kids, since the picture is public and of course all her friends will be able to see it too... .  

Any other suggestions?

mrclear

[mrclear]

Hi,

My exudBPDw has a new boyfriend. They have been seeing eachother about 3 months. He has already met my kids and they have stayed at his house. I don't really care, because the kids says he's nice and they get along. Of course I checked up on him, because I wanna know who my kids are seeing. He has money, car, great job, 4 kids, but likes to display his trophies on FB. Seems like a classic narcissist... .   Whatever... .   One thing worries me. He has recently displayed a nude photograph of my ex on FB. You can't see her face... . My daughter (13) has now become friends with him on FB and I am a little worried... .  

Should I mention something to my ex in the nicest concerned way, or leave it alone? I'm just worried about the impact it may have on my kids, since the picture is public and of course all her friends will be able to see it too... .  

Any other suggestions?

mrclear

[Matt]

How old are the kids?

And what is the custody status?

My suggestion would be to document this right away - print out the Facebook, sign and date it, and send a copy to your lawyer.

Then think about what is best for the kids.  This doesn't sound very healthy.  Maybe they would be better off if they were in the care of someone who has better judgment than your ex.

[mrclear]

Thanks,

Already documented it an printed it out.

The kids are 12 and 7. Should I really take legal action on this? Maybe I should contact her first and appeal to her sanity... .    

[Matt]

What is the custody arrangement?

Is there a court order in place establishing custody?

[Thunderstruck]

In my state, "moral fitness of the parents" is one of the criteria for custody. So that sounds like something you can add to the heap if you want to get more time.

I don't know about approaching the X, I'd say be VERY careful in how you go about it. It could come off as stalkerish if you're checking her new bf's fb page. And you know how they like to blow things out of proportion.  

You could report the photo as offensive on fb if it really is that bad.

I know you want to shield the kids as much as possible, but it's impossible to block them from all the stuff their BPDbm is going to do. Le sigh. Sometimes making a big deal out of something only draws attention to it whereas it might fly under the radar otherwise. In any case, you can use it as a lesson to DD to stress to her what kinds of things are and are not appropriate to post on the internet.

[DreamGirl]

I have three stepdaughters - 16, 13, and 10. I have two sons 17 and 13.

If it were me and my own children - I'd call my ex and tell him to quit posting naked pictures of himself on the internet. He's not disordered though.

If it were my stepdaughters, I probably wouldn't even know that her BF had posted pictures. The girls would have to have brought it to my attention. I also don't delve into the FB drama of their mama. I figure what I don't know won't hurt me. I've also handed over to the Universe any hopes of instilling good judgement when it comes to their mama. We're also happy with the custody agreement (50/50) and don't have any plans anytime soon in changing it. I accept her in all her glory.

Details help here. What are the circumstances surrounding the picture?

What do you mean by "nude"? Full blown ne-ked?

If anybody had a picture of me naked on the internet, I'd want to know by the way. Especially if my kids could access it.

Part of parallel parenting is to allow the other home to parent however they see fit. If it's a true concern, I don't see any problem contacting the other home and expressing that concern.

You also know how to use SET and BIFF. You're a pro here. How would you word it?

My husband was once concerned about his ex-wife's boyfriend walking around in is underwear. The girls expressed to him that they felt uncomfortable.

He simply called her and said "I don't think it's a big deal, but I just wanted to let you know that the girls told me that BF walks around in his boxer briefs... .   and I quote... .   they think it's gross. Can you talk to them about it or tell him to throw on a pair of shorts?"

She agreed, even mentioned that she wanted to talk to the BF about it anyways.

No big deal.

My husband is also about conflict resolution and not so much proving to the court why he needs more custody - so it depends on your goal here. If the goal is to keep your daughter from seeing naked pictures of her mom on the internet? Then there are several ways to accomplish that.

-DG

[Matt]

I don't think Facebook allows extreme nudity.

[mamachelle]

Sometimes making a big deal out of something only draws attention to it whereas it might fly under the radar otherwise. In any case, you can use it as a lesson to DD to stress to her what kinds of things are and are not appropriate to post on the internet.

Hi mrclear,

So it was my bright idea to check out  exW BF on Fbook.    I think it's best to let this one pass myself. Either your DD has seen her mom's behind already on his page or not. My 2 DD13 and 16 pay soo little attention to the FB photos of the adults on their friend lists... .   it is information overload. They even told me, oh mom, FB is kind of old, we are on instagram, tumblr, twitter... .      

If you have access to your DD account and your exW knows this, then you can say something to exW a la what DG suggested possibly? Otherwise it's probably best to keep quiet about it but document as Matt says for future negotiations. I don't think you are looking to change custody arrangements in the short term right?

My point in checking the FB stuff is that since you 2 live in different countries as I understood from previous posts... .   this way you can see who this guy is---and fly under the radar like Thunderstruck is saying.

mamachelle

[mrclear]

Thanks for all your replies. Helps to get some perspective.

I am lucky to have a T who deals specifically with partners who have been in BPD marriages/relationships. I called her yesterday and she advised to go ahead and let my ex know that I am concerned about this kind od behavior, since it is also an intrusion into the children's private life. She said it is important to set boundaries with BPD's as it is, in some way, also good for them. She also said that I shouldn't expect an answer and that I would be painted blacker than black. Well, I'm used to that, so I went ahaid and sent a mail.

The picture was full-nudity, but from behind. Her face was not visible. However, it was public, meaning everybody (not only friends could see it). I made the comment as part of a longer e-mail, encouraging her to stay in contact with me about the kids, since she has gone practically zero-contact since her new "white knight". It was respectful, empathetic, but firm. Here's the part about the pic:

"I have one issue which will probably upset you, but my conscience dictates me to mention it: Since you have not opted to share any information about K. with me, I have done my own research, as I think it is important for me as a father to know what kind of person my children will be spending a part of their lives with. I have checked the legal aspect of this and it is within my rights as a father. K. seems like a financially stable, fun guy and I think the children will generally benefit from being with him.

However, I am a little worried about the following: As you probably already know, K. is sharing a nude picture of you on FB. This is none of my business personally, but I don't know if your are aware of the fact that it is public (meaning not only friends but everybody can see this) and is now being shared with A. Not to mention her friends and maybe even S. (younger daughter)(Also K's children). Eventhough your face isn´t visible, A. (my daughter) will still know it's you. Maybe you could consider thinking about whether it is appropriate for the children to see this. I don't have to remind you that, coming into her teenage years, A. is shy and insecure when it comes to these issues, so if you could think along those lines, you won't take my criticism personally. Remember that the internet is a powerful medium and that this could also show up at the school where you work. People are smart and resourceful. You are free to do with yourself as you please, and I think it's important to be free with your body within your own 4 walls. Maybe you can try and put yourself in my position and imagine how it would be if I shared a nude picture of M. (my GF) publicly, to which A. (and the entire world) would have access. Of course, it is up to you and K. how you handle it. Just know that I don't agree with such public documentation when it concerns our kids.  Please try to not take this personally, I am just a concerned parent".

Ok, within ten minutes of writing this, the picture had been restricted and no one could see it. Either she wasn't aware, or just completely embarrased (boy, am I in trouble noow!   ). She hasn't replied to the e-mail yet and I doubt if she will.

As to me finding out about the BF. I am not a stalker and do not barrage her with e-mails. It's sporadically about the kids visits and extra issues here and there. I really have checked the legal issues and, as a father you are permitted, even encouraged to do a background check on the new partner. It is even allowed to check for a criminal background, if one wishes to do so. (I won't). My ExBPDw has full custody, since we live in different countries. After the split I was still at a stage where I wanted to make things easy for her. If I had known what I know now, I would definitely have acted differently. Whatever. Eventhough she takes no responsilbility for our failed marriage, I have decided to not let the same thing happen to my children. As hard as it is, I must stand up for them and will keep reminding her of her responsibility to co-parent. That is the least that I can do for my children... .  

My ex tried to restrict my access to my kids in the beginning, but I filed a request for a ruling. It is still pending, but my ex has been more responsive to visits since then... .   I guess it's ok to not give up on your kids. They need us... .  

These are our children and we have a right to set boundaries concerning them.

p.s. I have also written a full e-mail in BIFF and SET encouraging my ex to co-parent. If anybody's interested, I'd be happy to post it... .

atb and thanks, mrclear

[Thunderstruck]

As to me finding out about the BF. I am not a stalker and do not barrage her with e-mails. It's sporadically about the kids visits and extra issues here and there. I really have checked the legal issues and, as a father you are permitted, even encouraged to do a background check on the new partner. It is even allowed to check for a criminal background, if one wishes to do so. (I won't). My ExBPDw has full custody, since we live in different countries. After the split I was still at a stage where I wanted to make things easy for her. If I had known what I know now, I would definitely have acted differently. Whatever. Eventhough she takes no responsilbility for our failed marriage, I have decided to not let the same thing happen to my children. As hard as it is, I must stand up for them and will keep reminding her of her responsibility to co-parent. That is the least that I can do for my children... .  

We don't think you're a stalker. I would (and have) check up on my SO's uBPDx's new boyfriends to see what type of guys she is bringing around D8. It's normal. What I meant was that your pwBPD might paint you as a stalker checking up on her. You know how they like to take innocent things and twist them around to portray you as a bad person. That's just one of my main worries all the time.

I think your e-mail sounds very reasonable. I'm glad the picture was taken down and I hope your DD's aren't embarassed by their mother's behavior. Being a kid is so tough as it is, without parents making it more difficult.

[mrclear]

Thunder,

I know what you mean  . Having to accept boundaries from an ex is probably unbearable for BPD's. Even when it just concerns the children. It's understandable that they would resort to irratic behavior. Accusations of stalking, restraining orders, definitely fall into that catagory. That's why it was so important to check the legal aspect.

My ex never mentioned her past relationships. They were hidden in a veil of secrecy and I found out many lies during our marriage. It was mostly dismissed be saying "Oh, that? That was nothing... .   " I guess now I'm "nothing" and will try to be put in the dark draw in the back of her mind, never to be seen or spoken of again. If there hadn't been kids involved, that would have been easier for her, but this way she is forced to deal with whether seh wants to or not. I really understand that it must be tough for her... .   However, I have my kids to think of... .  

[mamachelle]

mrclear,

The letter sounds good and the needed goal was achieved. It sounds like it would be completely embarrassing for her too.

I like that you revealed it in a way that makes it seem like everyone could see it, not that you went looking for it.

I would guess she will just pretend you never sent the email at all... .  

mamachelle

[mrclear]

I think the e-mail did achieve it's purpose... .  

I received a message from her full of anger, frustration and hate. It was what I expected, so it didn't really hit me. She basically barraged me with flaming blame about how forthcoming she had been, that she was a wonderful, thoughtful mother and she was doing all the work and that I shouldn't lecture her on how to raise kids etc, etc. BPD's will always see the black in grey... .  

About the pic she wrote:"The picture posted is beautiful and not in anyway pornografic. You recognize my ass, but there is no name tag on it and it is presented with a beautiful warmhearted text. Nothing insulting or hurtfull. Relax ! " I think I am the one that's relaxed here... .   Classic projection... .  

Did I ever mention the picture was pornografic? Did I ever say anything about text. It's just about kids here, nothing else. The text, by the way was: "After a long, dark winter it has become spring again". Very poetic... .   The replies to the text were less poetic ranging from "Nice ass!" to "Roomservice?".

I can't deny that I was a little compromised when I saw the picture but also genuinely concerned for my children. I came up with a better poem for the picture:

As long, dark winter fades, the light of spring renews my soul

As passion withers shades, I am once again made whole

And even though I embrace the new love and warmth I find,

I remember with grace the frozen love I left behind

As a last line I thought of "Oops, maybe I shouldn't have done it by plastering a nude picture of my new GF on FB." Ok, it doesn't rhyme, but hey... .  

My poem is dedicated to an ExH, an ExW and six children... .  

mrclear

[DreamGirl]

Goal achieving is great.

I remember with grace the frozen love I left behind

Pun intended?

[mrclear]

 

No, then I would have written "the frozen butt I left behind... .   " 

[Matt]

It's usually best to keep each e-mail to 3 sentences max, focused on one topic:

I saw your more-or-less nude photograph on Facebook.  The kids and their friends might see it too.

I think it would be best to keep that picture private where the kids and their friends can't see it.

[mrclear]

Matt,

I agree with you, but there are different shades of BPD and, knowing her well, the reaction would have been the same. She cannot be confronted with any flaws or imperfection. She won't allow critism to any extent. She is in the zone now, with her new BF and doesn't wanted to be confronted with me in any way. I can understand that, but I won't discontinue setting boundaries when it comes to my children. Being respectful and polite is a form of self-dignity that I will not change, however her reaction may be... .  

atb, mrclear

[Matt]

Matt,

I agree with you, but there are different shades of BPD and, knowing her well, the reaction would have been the same. She cannot be confronted with any flaws or imperfection. She won't allow critism to any extent. She is in the zone now, with her new BF and doesn't wanted to be confronted with me in any way. I can understand that, but I won't discontinue setting boundaries when it comes to my children. Being respectful and polite is a form of self-dignity that I will not change, however her reaction may be... .  

atb, mrclear

Boundaries is the right idea!

The way I've learned about boundaries is, "If you do X, I will do Y."  Then if she does X, you do Y.

My ex used to call me (when we were married) and bust my chops.  I finally learned to set a boundary - "If you speak to me inappropriately on the phone, I will hang up."  I actually never said those words - I decided saying it wouldn't help - I just started doing it.  It worked - she quit raging at me over the phone, and the few times she crossed the line, I hung up - a win either way.

So... .   what boundary can you set, that will help your kids?

[mrclear]

Not accepting verbal abuse is a start. BPD's need to know that certain behavior is unacceptable and inappropriate. They may not answer you or reply to your boundaries that you set via e-mails, but they will take note of it and adjust their behavior in some way. BPD's are very adaptable and change, in order for them to keep communication with others or to take more distance from them. In simple terms: If one thing doesn't work, the other might. It's the emotional thinking of a child.

My T explained to me that it is important to take responsibility for your children. Even if you are not living with them, you are their parent. In the face of BPD it is hard to remain a constant in children's lives. Alienation, rages, impossible demands or simply denying your existence will be hard obstacles to overcome. A lot of parents just give up at the prospect of having to deal with this constantly.

What we have to remember is, that this behavior is not personal and not about you. The BPD is unable to see past their own needs and feelings and their behavior is reflexive and deeply entrenched. There is no fighting this, unless the BPD faces their disorder and decides to do something about it. Most don't, so it's up to us to protect ourselves and our children in any way possible.

Let's analyze the famous FB picture: Since I am a year ahead and have done a lot of soul-searching, research and recovery-work, I have a pretty thick defense when such things occur. My first thought is about my children and how these situations will affect them. I take action and make my concerns known. If this would have happened a year ago, I would probably broke down in a sea of pain and self-pity. Taken from a personal view, an action like this clearly shows the lack of remorse, empathy and compassion that BPD's often display. They steam ahead into the new honey-moon phase, as if you had never existed. They have no thought of the broken hearts they leave behind or the sheer insensitivity of such an action. This a constant in all their decisions and actions and they will apply it also to their children. That's where we come in... .  

Boundaries are important to people with BPD. They need to know that there is someone out there who will not always agree with them and will not accept inappropriate behavior. Basically, you are taking responsibility for their c**p and letting them know that they are screwing up. They won't like you for it, but it is imperative. Especially as a co-parent.

My boundaries with my children are balanced. I do not barrage my ex with constant e-mails and take a step back when the raging begins. Rage means that she has been confronted with her faults and hates you for knowing it. Better to let it sink it in, because it will... .   You will probably be faced with a modification of your boundary, but a small step is still a step, right? Since I have documented most of my e-mail communication with her, I sometimes find it helpful to remind her of her own words, since BPD's forget what they wrote in one e-mail, to completely change their position in the next. Another thing they won't like, but in the end it's about the future and well-being of our children.

Practically this means that I expect to be informed about important changes in the children's lives. Moving, traveling, social events, etc. Anything that affects them emotionally and will change their connection or communication with me. As I've already said, I skype with them frequently and call them. I do not encourage them to talk about my ex's personal life, but if they wish to share things with me, I respond positively and supporting. I let them know that I love them and that I will always be there for them. I provide them with a BPD-free environment when they are with me, but do not overly spoil them and make sure that there a rules to guide them.

I am still evolving and do not know all the answers, but this road feels right for me... .  

atb, mrclear