how fundamental is jealousy to a person with BPD?

[Scott2000]

I am struggling with a breakup with someone who exhibits most of the defined traits of a person who suffers from BPD. we are now in NC and have been for about a month. I am still coming to terms with what the hell happened.

there are two things I keep coming up against that make me wonder if she could indeed be classified as someone who could have this diagnosis.

for one, she doesn't "rage", nor does she fit all the earmarks of what I understand is called a "BPD waif" because she is very outgoing and gregarious.

and two, she doesn't seem to be jealous – at least not in the aggressive, clinging way that I've seen jealousy described by other (ex-)partners of people with BPD. she had no trouble letting me go when the push/pull became too confusing for me and i decided to cut her loose.

are those two details enough to confirm that she doesn't have this disorder, even if her behavior satisfies most of the other requirements? like a lot of people, I feel like if I know that this is what she suffers from, I will have an easier time coming to terms with the fallout.

would love to hear any thoughts

[wanttoknowmore]

I also, wonder the same.  Is there any other mental illness besides BP where you have severe push-pull behavior?

[sunrising]

Hi Scott2000

I'm sorry you're struggling.  Break-ups of any kind can be very difficult.  Everyone here can relate.  I'm glad to see you've found your way over here to the Leaving board.  There are lots of great members and resources here to help you learn and cope with what you're going through.  I think you might find this article helpful: Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

It's easy to get caught up in trying to determine if our exs have or don't have BPD.  Only a mental health professional would be able to make that determination.  I think it's likely that many of our ex's would be diagnosed as exhibiting BPD traits rather than having a full-blown BPD diagnosis.  I know my ex didn't exhibit many BPD traits in other areas of her life (her work, friendships, etc), but most certainly exhibited them within our relationship.  Jealousy seems to be common in relationships with a pwBPD or BPD traits, but it's important to keep in mind that, just like you and I, we are talking about unique individuals with their own emotions and life experiences.  So even though there are common behaviors associated with BPD, no 2 people are the same. 

What's probably most important, rather than trying to determine if your ex has BPD (this may never happen), is deciding whether the relationship was a healthy one for you.  I'm assuming since you're here, you at least feel somewhat that it wasn't. Your ex's problems, whether related to BPD or not, are not something you can fix; and they were there long before you came along.  A lot of the things you will learn here about relationships will apply whether or not your ex suffers from BPD. 

What kind of things are you doing to take care of yourself?  Are you engaging in hobbies, etc which you enjoy?  Do you have friends and family who are supporting you during this difficult time?

sunrising

[causticdork]

Mine had some jealousy issues, but definitely lacked the token BPD rage.  She rarely raised her voice to me, but she would say really horrible things calmly and coldly.  Honestly, I would have preferred yelling.

If you were with a high-functioning BPDer then it can be confusing.  My biggest red flag was the black and white thinking and the dissociation.  Looking up those specific traits is what lead me to researching BPD in the first place.  Maybe she has it and maybe she doesn't, but either way being on this board has helped immensely. 

[Scott2000]

thanks causticdork and sunrising. both of your comments are helpful. i'm so hesitant to blindly diagnose her, but i've never been engaged in such a confusing dynamic before.

truth is, she was never truly mean to me, and she knows she has a problem. she just went back and forth between extreme love, and then complete detachment, seemingly for no reason whatsoever.

it takes all of my willpower not to fall black on blaming myself in trying to figure out what went wrong. but NC is helping me rebuild and get back to myself after all the confusion. i just wonder if i will ever hear from her again, even when she's better, if therapy helps her at all.

i guess there is no way to know. everyone is different. so i'm just trying to focus on my own life and moving on.

[sunrising]

truth is, she was never truly mean to me, and she knows she has a problem. she just went back and forth between extreme love, and then complete detachment, seemingly for no reason whatsoever.

You say she wasn't mean to you.  I can see how you feel that way if she never really raged.  But then you say she pushed and pulled you for no identifiable or justifiable reason (to you).  Do you feel you deserve to be treated that way in a respectful relationship?

it takes all of my willpower not to fall black on blaming myself in trying to figure out what went wrong. but NC is helping me rebuild and get back to myself after all the confusion.

Blaming ourselves is so common.  Most of us here have done it.  Don't feel bad.  But ask yourself: Did you try hard to make the relationship work?  Sure you may have made some mistakes, no one is in a relationship and doesn't.  But if you tried to make it work and were pushed and pulled for reasons which don't make sense to you, the relationship wasn't healthy for you. So why feel guilty?

i just wonder if i will ever hear from her again, even when she's better, if therapy helps her at all.

What would you do if you hear from her?  NC is a tool to help us detach and see things more realistically.  Have you chosen NC, has she, or have both of you?

so i'm just trying to focus on my own life and moving on.

  You can't affect your ex's condition or behavior.  Only yours... .     It's great to hear you're focusing on you!  What kind of things are you doing to take care of yourself?

sunrising

[Dave44]

Just my experiance... .  

Mine never really ragged either. She did though have an extreme jelousy issue. I could give you examples that would just blow your mind -- completely redicules and over the top. However, when it came time for her to brutally dump me she could of cared less about ANYTHING. It's like all her "love" and jelousy vanished in the blink of an eye. I never heard from her again. It simply rattles your brain trying to understand how someone can love you more than anything in the world to the point of being so over the top jealous in fear of loosing you to not giving a rats ass if you even existed... .   all in the matter of 24 hours!  

[mitchell16]

my experience was that my BPDgf who I consider high function. Would always say she wasnt jealous and wouldnt not get jealous often but when it did occur you could stand by. She would fly off the handle and rage. You could talk to her, you couldnt calm her or make any sense to her. But the jealous fits were very unreaosnable and would be something she herself did. Such as I had a HS friend that I hadnt spoke to in a number of year, we reconnected. was alway just friends. The lady texted me one time and my exBPDgf went ballsitic. This a women that has numerous mael friends that call her every day. When I pointed it out to her she said hers was diffrent. Or a female coworker and me were talking and laughing one day and she saw us. Again went ballistic. Now she talks to her male coworker all the time and sometimes after work and I would never say anything. I didnt see a problem with it but you never knew what she when it would hit. Like if any ex of mine conatcted me for some reason she could care lesss.

[Scott2000]

sunrising: all very good points. she pushed and pulled based on my showing affection for her, really. if i was adoring, she pushed me away. if i was detached, she would pull me closer. it was a game i was not interested in playing. ultimately i was the one who suggested we end our friendship and relationship, and she had no trouble taking me up on that offer. if i heard from her, at least i'd know she was affected by all this. right now i don't even think she cares.

dave and mitchell, both of your stories resonate with me. our situations are very different but perhaps similar in their confounding nature.

[sunrising]

if i heard from her, at least i'd know she was affected by all this

It's also common to want to know our ex's are hurting like we are.  With pwBPD or BPD traits, we have to accept that this often isn't the case.  A wise man (my father) told me a few weeks ago: "I sense a loneliness in you.  Just be sure you don't try to fill it with what caused it".  It's ok to feel lonely after what you've been through.  Natural and normal, in fact... .     I just have to remind myself not to allow my loneliness to change my perception of the reality of the situation.  My ex has issues, I have discovered some I need to work on, and nothing about how I may feel one day (or how she feels) would change these facts.

Do you have some friends and family supporting you during this challenging time?

if i was adoring, she pushed me away. if i was detached, she would pull me closer. it was a game i was not interested in playing.

 Who could really be interested in playing that game for any extended time?  It's immature and manipulative (whether intentional or not), at best.  With that said, so many of us here struggle with not being a partner in the dysfunctional dance, even after we recognize it's happening.    I have a lot of respect for you for recognizing this game and choosing not to play it any longer.  

sunrising

[Scott2000]

that's a great quote from your dad - thanks for sharing.

my friends and family have been great. but i sense their patience is wearing thin since i don't think they quite understand how deeply this affected me. (i'm surprised myself!)

and thanks for the kind words about my recognizing the game and getting out early. my sanity was at risk and i had no choice! the healing really only started when i severed ties.

[mtmc01]

sunrising: all very good points. she pushed and pulled based on my showing affection for her, really. if i was adoring, she pushed me away. if i was detached, she would pull me closer. it was a game i was not interested in playing. ultimately i was the one who suggested we end our friendship and relationship, and she had no trouble taking me up on that offer. if i heard from her, at least i'd know she was affected by all this. right now i don't even think she cares.

dave and mitchell, both of your stories resonate with me. our situations are very different but perhaps similar in their confounding nature.

This one really struck a chord. When I tried to be supportive, sweet, and affectionate toward my ex through her alcoholism, it seemed to only get worse and she'd need to sabotage things. Then, at the end, when I was trying to set boundaries and was more distant and less affectionate and more guarded due to what she'd put me through, it was only then that she started going to AA, stopped drinking, and as she put it "gave it everything she had". If I'd kept acting the way she wanted me to, I seriously wonder if she wouldn't have just gone on sabotaging our relationship... .  

[causticdork]

sunrising: all very good points. she pushed and pulled based on my showing affection for her, really. if i was adoring, she pushed me away. if i was detached, she would pull me closer. it was a game i was not interested in playing. ultimately i was the one who suggested we end our friendship and relationship, and she had no trouble taking me up on that offer. if i heard from her, at least i'd know she was affected by all this. right now i don't even think she cares.

dave and mitchell, both of your stories resonate with me. our situations are very different but perhaps similar in their confounding nature.

This one really struck a chord. When I tried to be supportive, sweet, and affectionate toward my ex through her alcoholism, it seemed to only get worse and she'd need to sabotage things. Then, at the end, when I was trying to set boundaries and was more distant and less affectionate and more guarded due to what she'd put me through, it was only then that she started going to AA, stopped drinking, and as she put it "gave it everything she had". If I'd kept acting the way she wanted me to, I seriously wonder if she wouldn't have just gone on sabotaging our relationship... .  

Mine did this exactly, only with opiates instead of alcohol.  She spent the better part of a year growing colder and more distant while I supported her and showed her all the affection and patience in the world.  Then when I finally gave up and told her we were through she was suddenly "all-in" and willing to do anything and get better show me how much she loved me.  I'm pretty sure that if I had said yes and started being affectionate again she would have pulled away within a week or two. 

[syz]

I think some people have very similar attributes and emotional issues like someone with BPD.  My ex gf was raised by a parent with BPD and has a sister with it (she was adopted so no genetic predisposition there) whereas her sister was biological related to their parents.  And although she clearly doesn't have BPD she reacted to things as if I she did sometimes because its what was familiar and that is the communication dynamic she grew up in.  

The person who brought me here was a friend I got involved with briefly after my relationship ended.  She does not exhibit the more dysfunctional parts of BPD (self harm, cutting, suicidal ideation, substance abuse, promiscuity, or raging though she does become unhinged) but everything else is there.  She also is left handed, dyslexic and has an autoimmune disorder as well as hypothyroidism.  Interestingly in some of my looking around researchers are finding some indication that the combination of learning disability, autoimmune and left handedness in people indicates a greater likelihood of some mental health issues (left handed people are twice as likely to be schizophrenic for instance).  

Anyway I digress.  I think there is some variance in the level of the emotional dysregulation within BPD and the only way for there to be a clear differentiation between people with BPD vs a person who is just plain dysfunctional is probably in the brain.  Especially since many of the features of BPD are things we have all felt we just learn to self soothe and regulate usually when we are younger and continue on that path refining those skills as we mature.  People with BPD can't and don't.  Which is why often we feel like we are arguing with a child.  

In many ways my friend seemed almost normal until it got intimate and then things came unraveled really fast.  I say almost because i noticed a few things before we got involved.  A lack of real friendships in her life and over reactions to things to situations between us required long hours of processing emotional things that hadn't really happened or weren't a big deal.  She imagined a lot of emotional boogymen.  And yes, not jealousy necessarily, but accusations of doing sexual things with other people.