So much more pain revealed last night

[Rockylove]

I'll apologize in advance for the length of this post.

I know how difficult it is for him to genuinely express feelings.  They are illusive and he doesn't trust anything intangible.  So... .   when he's experiencing a truly intense feeling and tries to explain it and can't, he will withdraw or rage shortly thereafter.  The times when he can let go and talk about feelings are when he's had way too much to drink and it typically isn't productive to have a conversation when alcohol is involved, but I'm finding that he gives me so much more information about his life when he's drunk that it's difficult not to.  

I had assumed that we weren't going to have the discussion I'd told him earlier in the day that I wanted to have as he did everything possible to avoid it, but alas... .  

We came home from the brewery where we were for several hours listening to friends play music and yes... .   beer was consumed.  I'm not a beer drinker so I was designated driver... .   he had several and he drinks dark beer w/ high alcohol content.  

At some point during the evening, his brother called so when we got back to the house, he returned the call.  I'm not sure exactly what happened as I was inside, he was outside talking on the phone, but from what I gather it didn't go well.  His brother is a strong Catholic and in his own well meaning way tries to get my bf to have some faith in something.  I can only surmise that the conversation somehow involved faith from the things I could hear from the bedroom window as he was damning everything from every faith (God, Buddha, Jesus, Sun, Earth... .   you name it, he damned it).  He came in and grabbed another beer (he'd had several more while talking to his brother) and I was passing through the room to head to bed and I asked him if he was staying in as two of the dogs were still outside and he said "no, I'm going back out to cuss some more and try to get over hating my brother."  We joked about that a moment and then he kissed me and I went to bed, but his raging continued... .   and got louder... .   and he came into the house... .   and then his anger was directed at me and he said "you wanted to TALK... .   let's talk!" I finally got up out of bed (this was about 2am) and came into the living room.  I told him that it wasn't a good idea to talk now that we were both tired and I'd like to talk in the morning... .   but he wasn't having any of that!  He said that I promised to listen and I'd best do what I promised to do.  I said that I promised to listen and have the conversation when we were both calm.  He calmed for a bit, but it didn't last... .   but I feel that it was worth hearing him out.

Much of what he raged about had to do with me lying to him about something 2 years ago which he will forever hold against me even though I didn't lie.  Then came the interesting information about his childhood.  I had (several months ago) had a conversation of sorts w/ his grandmother (yes, she is dead and don't bother asking me about this... .   it just happens) but she said to me that she loved my bf very much and felt it was unfair that "they" always sat him in a corner and ignored him.  He never said much about this when I originally told him other than that sounded like something his grandmother would say.  Last night he expanded on that which gave me a good idea of why me telling him to be nice or go elsewhere when our friends were coming over struck such a nerve with him.  He said he was indeed set off in a corner and left to himself and he got used to being set aside (mostly by his mother~~he said he never felt she loved him that he was an obligation that she was filling) and that his grandmother would come sit with him and tell him he was a good person.  Many other things came from this, but the main theme was that he was emotionally neglected and he came to accept that.  He said something about that being what twisted his perception of life (or something of that nature), but he got used to it.  

But... .   there's more!  He had always said that he loved his grandmother and that she was really his 1st mother, his Aunt 2nd and his mother was 3rd... .   he loved his Aunt even though she kept trying to get him to have sex with her, but he didn't... .   however other women in the family did this to him as well (cousins) and he succumbed... .   and he hated it and felt horrible about it~~but said "no big deal... .   it is what it is.  They all lied to me... .   they didn't really love me... .   I suppose that's why I have a tainted view of women... .   they all want, want, want... .   "    

He volleyed between anger and sadness and my heart was breaking for him.  I remained calm throughout and told him that my love was unconditional and I don't need anything in return.  I told him that I was sad that the women he should have been able to trust to care for him took advantage of him and that I understood why it was trust and one's word was so important to him.  It took until 6:30 am for him to calm down enough and we went to bed and held each other... .   he said "you really do understand" and then we slept.  

He's still sleeping... .   I've no doubt he's absolutely emotionally exhausted.  I got about 4 hours of sleep and woke with so much on my mind that I had to get up and write.  I don't know how to proceed from here.  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[byasliver]

  I'm sure you are exhausted, too, RL! You've told me more than once to take care of me - you do the same! Hang in there!

[Mono No Aware]

Wow Rocky, congrats on being so tuned into him and gaining so much trust that he opened up to you!

You found a goldmine of information there. Dark, poisonous gold that is.

My SO has similiar neglect issues. She had a self-help book that resonated with her (but didn't really help) which laid out the various stereotypical roles played in many dysfunctional families - and as the youngest growing up in an already derailed and train-wrecking family she fit the role of "The Lost Child" who was ignored.

Knowing what we know now of BPD, it's not too far of stretch to make the connection that the Lost Child never develops the emotional maturity to deal with abandonment fears and there's DSM-IV-TR criteria #1 for BPD.

[Rockylove]

You found a goldmine of information there. Dark, poisonous gold that is.

Knowing what we know now of BPD, it's not too far of stretch to make the connection that the Lost Child never develops the emotional maturity to deal with abandonment fears and there's DSM-IV-TR criteria #1 for BPD.

He's had it all, Mono!  I think I may have mentioned it before, but his father walked out of their lives when he was 3 or 4 years old.  There were a few letters from him early on, but his mother put a stop to it and he was never heard from again.  There are several theories of what became of him, but no one knows for sure... .   and his mother won't discuss it.  All of this new information definitely confirms my suspicions though... .   fear of abandonment, mistrust of women... .   even the way he talks to his mother (it's almost syrupy sweet and definitely NOT the way he normally talks to people).  The whole thing makes me very sad.  He also said something about every family has that in it.  What a way to view the world.

[Rockylove]

 I'm sure you are exhausted, too, RL! You've told me more than once to take care of me - you do the same! Hang in there!

Thank you, byasliver... .   I needed that hug and the reminder.  I don't know why I'm still awake... .   I'm sure I'll be in bed by 9 tonight though!

[byasliver]

You and me both! I think I got about 2 hours sleep and I've been running all day! Hope we both have a peaceful and restful night!

[Rockylove]

You and me both! I think I got about 2 hours sleep and I've been running all day! Hope we both have a peaceful and restful night!

Indeed, my friend... .   indeed! 

[patientandclear]

RL -- yes -- no wonder he has challenges with trust and intimacy.  That's so much to fight against.  Sounds like you were a wonderful partner to him and for this moment, he knows that and is able to express it.

Just wanted to flag that from what I can see, pwBPD can't stay in that space of trust and appreciation for long, and it can be panicking for someone else (you) to see him that deeply and know him that well.  Lots of times he has to conceal all this from himself and it is quite inconvenient that you know about it.  In my r/s at least, the very fact that I knew these things was part of the problem for my bf.  It meant I couldn't go along with his surface level explanations for things and on many days, he really wanted to surface level to go unchallenged.  Just saying the very fact that you can do this and have done this for him, probably also makes you very dangerous to him.  And the more he tries to or wants to trust you, the more his defense mechanisms may be triggered.

xxoo

[LetItBe]

RL, you were amazing in how you handled his revelation to you!  That's some really tough stuff to digest for most people.  I know I shed a tear when I read it.  How awful for him and all of those on his path that he was so victimized and can't trust anyone now.  Take it easy on yourself while you process all of the feelings that come up for you around this.

P&C offered some very wise insight:

Just wanted to flag that from what I can see, pwBPD can't stay in that space of trust and appreciation for long, and it can be panicking for someone else (you) to see him that deeply and know him that well.  Lots of times he has to conceal all this from himself and it is quite inconvenient that you know about it.  In my r/s at least, the very fact that I knew these things was part of the problem for my bf.  It meant I couldn't go along with his surface level explanations for things and on many days, he really wanted to surface level to go unchallenged.  Just saying the very fact that you can do this and have done this for him, probably also makes you very dangerous to him.  And the more he tries to or wants to trust you, the more his defense mechanisms may be triggered.

Not long ago, my uBPDxbf processed some very difficult things with me, like he was afraid he was losing control of his mind.  He seemed tormented.  I comforted him.  He thanked me.  He started pushing me away shortly after that, saying he felt like I was "trying to trick him," along with more PA behaviors.  He was mostly pushing me away, although we did still manage to have some times of closeness.  However, a couple of weeks ago, when I asked if he'd share what happened for him after the last time we were close (and he disappeared for a couple of days), he wrote a long, very patronizing, condescending email to me, and in it, plainly stated that there must be some confusion, that he had a nice time w/me and that he felt more peace in the past few weeks than he did for a long time.  So, I was once again on the outside of his ever-growing wall.  As P&C said, the fact that I could "see" him was very difficult for him. He'd even said those words from time to time when we were together. 

Take good care of yourself, RM.

[byasliver]

Rockylove, I've read so many of your posts and I think you and I are kindred spirits. You seem like a very caring, giving and empathetic person - someone always happy to care for others before yourself because you know you are strong. And you are frustrated by your inability to help your pwBPD. I am very much the same way but have had some serious "aha" moments this morning. I posted about them on another thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=194050.new#new. It's an old thread but I found it while looking for help with an issue I was dealing with then posted my feelings. I think it may help you, too. Your pwBPD opened up to you and that was draining to you because you are such an empathetic person and you can't "fix" that hurt for him. But you don't have to. You don't have any responsibility for it. I know you are worried because it's hard when such openness is infrequent but that is part of his mental illness. You can only do what you can about YOU. You can be there for him to listen and express what care and trust and concern that you can but ultimately HE will decide if/when he will open up again, how much he will trust you, and what he will do about his past hurts. I hope this makes sense.  Even if it doesn't, here's aother  for you 

[LetItBe]

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[Rockylove]

I'm so very grateful for all the words of wisdom here.  I'm really feeling good today.  It's a beautiful and sunny day.  I've been cleaning inside and getting the junk cleaned up outside (construction debris that needs to go to the dump) as well.  I've felt alive and productive.

My bf slept in, but I expected that.   When he woke, he spent the better part of 2 hours complaining of not feeling well and was staggering around the house moaning.  He went back to bed several times.  I told him that I was going to take him to the emergency room.  I even called them because they used to have an urgent care separate from the ER which would have been a better choice.  Shortly after that he got up and was fine.  I know this is all part of the way his BPD manifests itself.  He had a rough couple of days and he's coming around emotionally, but I know that these things wipe him out.  He managed to get the grass cut and actually cleaned up his messy desk area a bit! 

Part of this sudden "illness" could be from all the talk about getting a job, etc.  I know he has no desire to get one and I really don't care if he does or not.  The house is paid for and he's got a small income from the buyout of his previous job.  He's also got investments, so I think it will be ok if he doesn't get one.  I just think that he's making sure I don't encourage it because of his health.  That's just me reading him, mind you... .   but I seem to be doing that pretty well these days!  LOL