Should we ever apologize?

[changingme]

I think I am in a place I am learning and accepting my faults in the relationship, I was the stable one but I too was emotionally unhealthy and therefore recycled countless times.  I handled the anger so poorly, lashed out, almost attacked him for every little thing.   I could have walked away and I gave him the power and was angry at him for that.   I am not proud one bit.

My question is (since in my case I can't be nc - have communication for our child) would it be beneficial or hurtful or pointless for me to apologize for my own behaviors over the years? I wonder if that could help me and help the communication for years to come or would that confuse him?

[oricle]

Hey changingtimes,

I was stuck in the same confusion not long ago with regards to apologising for my part... .  

I think each situation has its own circumstances and each person will react differently, in my case of my uexBPDgf no amount of apologizing has seemed to work or made much of a difference for her, she is set in this projection of resentment and betrayal and distrust she has against me and what i did and for her staying for so long and being unhappy etc. i have still made the effort but it has fallen on deaf ears.

I handled my situation poorly too, i reacted to her, lashed out, blamed other things all that sort of stuff that i know i wouldn't normally do and haven't done in any other relationships... .   i didn't understand until i found this forum and i think it partly is a natural reaction to being belittled and put down and getting frustrated... .  

In the end, i realized for myself that while me apologizing to my partner and doing those gestures, trying to make contact and discuss the issues may not have changed the situation and may not have meant anything or much to her or made the situation worse temporarily, it meant a lot to me and was important for me in my healing process, I can say that i have given it my all and i know that i have taken responsibility for things that i have done in the situation.

my thinking is that we need to do to people what we would like to have done to us, it might sound a bit selfish but we do have to look after ourselves first and foremost in all of this, while also remembering that what we feel is right and our actions might not necessarily come across the same way to them... .  

to this day, my ex has not really ever apologiesd for anything she has done or caused, or seems to understand or looks like she cares, and stands that she has given it her all... .   so another thing that I considered was that is the apology necessary? to me it was to move on, but i did have to consider all the factors once i understood the situation better... .  

do you think that it will be beneficial for your situation? how do you think he will take it/react?

will it help you to move on or get over a hurdle that is holding you back?

do you think it could make for a more pleasant experience when you are around him for your childs sake?


hope that helps a bit, this board has helped me alot, so im hoping I can help some other people on here too :D

[sunrising]

As oricle has said, every situation is different, but my personal experience (which is consistent with almost everything I've heard from others here on the leaving board), is that the best thing I can do is forgive myself and stay away from discussions of the relationship with my ex. I'm in a position where NC is feasible and that's what I'm doing but, even if I weren't, I wouldn't make a wise and rational decision to apologize to my ex; and there are things about which I'd love to apologize, for her and for me.  My experience is that her reaction to my apologies has everything to do with her emotions at the moment and almost nothing to do with the sincerity of my apology.  So it may go well, and it may go horribly.   But I don't affect that... .  

I would recommend taking the time to write an apology letter as if you're writing it to your ex.  But don't send it.  Share it here or with a friend or family, but don't send it.  This will allow you to work through your feelings and forgive yourself without risking the unpredictable response of your ex; thereby protecting you from further emotional turmoil and your ex from any grief associated with his understanding/ misunderstanding of your apology. 

[changingme]

Oricle - Thanks for the insight.  I am thinking this is more for me and my healing process.  To say the words out loud that I take responsibility for certain things, I think would help put my mind a little a ease and peace.  Otherwise I am dealing with way too many thoughts and emotions for both ends. However... .  

Sunrising - I think your idea is great.  I will write it out (don't send it), see how I feel and then go from there.  Maybe I just need to get it out and down on paper and that will be enough for me.

Thanks!

[lockedout]

You've got to forgive yourself before you can forgive others. You also want to be healed enough so that you are mentally and emotionally strong enough to handle the backlash. You have a better chance of winning the Powerball lottery than you do of her saying, "apology accepted" or "I'm sorry too [or for my part]" It'll be more like "you never seemed to be sorry when you were abusing me" or "I can't believe you've finally admitted that everything was your fault". The letter is a good idea. Bounce it around a bit and see how it feels before you send it off to her.

[changingme]

Lockedout - I may get an "apology accepted", but that could also be for that moment. We all know that can change later on as well.  I am not really looking for an acceptance though, just have the burden that I need to say it (mainly for me) I am definitely trying the writing thing. 

[Ex-Vamp-Slayer]

Interesting question. I am working through Alon-On which is a 12 step program and step 8 is making an amends to anyone where I have behaved poorly. Fortunately I am only on step 3 and I do not look forward to step 8, but the premise is that the amends is not to seek forgiveness from the other person but to acknowledge our behavior and apologize for that behavior so we don't have to carry it around with us any more. It really doesnt matter how the other person reacts as it is not really for them. It is for me to own my behavior and acknowledge that I did not behave in a way that lines up with my spiritual beliefs. I chose to be in the relationship, we both had our disfunctional issues and my bad behavior did not help her on her life's journey. Her bad behavior did nt justify my bad behavior. I need to own it so that I can change and grow.

I really like the concept, but it will be interesting when it comes time to make amends. I would rather focus on their bad behavior, but that is not going to get me to where I want to be, which is serenity and peace.

[somethingtolose]

I wrote out my side of the story in an e-mail and sent it to her, but I used an e-mail I never used and didn't contact her after that. For some reason, for me, I needed her to read it. A few years later I met up with her randomly and we sort of became casual friends for a little while. This gave me a little bit of closure that I needed. Obviously I wouldn't recommend this if you thought it would cause more problems than it would solve.

[MontyD]

Should we ever apologize?

Simple answer,  NO.

What you are trying to do is to get a 5 year old to understand an apology that involves the complexity of a normal mature intimate relationship.  To get them to understand what a normal mature person feels and what they are apologizing for.

You might as well go talk to a gum tree.

Goodness me, if we blow our tops and say and do things we regret, you can bet it was initiated by the person with BPD.  They have a great capacity to drive us nuts.

If you think you need to apologize, then write it out, keep it for 24 hours, read it again then destroy it.

Then go back and try to understand how a pwBPD brain is wired.


(God, that was a bit heavy ! ?)

Monty

[VeryFree]

My 2cts:

Apologizing is a gesture toward another to show the other person you think about yourself and your own faults/hickups and try to make things better.

In a r/s between two grown-ups this could lead to accepting the apologies and working further together to building a stronger r/s. In a BPD-r/s it’s very possible that this doesn’t happen: building is something that should be done by two persons, not just by one. To build means to learn from mistakes, means to selfreflect. Not the strongest point for a pwBPD…

When things came to an end in my r/s I tried to put a lot of the blame on me. Apologised for a lot of things to try to get conversation going and to work to solutions. She handled this with a lot of arrogance: you’re too late, you made my life miserable, you should have thought about that earlier. It looked like she felt great!

Looking back I wish I never did: for me it felt like I was on my knees begging, meanwhile giving her the weapon to finish me. Looking back I didn’t have anything to apologise about. Looking back I should apologise to myself for letting me been tortured by this woman for so many years.

[Validation78]

Hi All!

I must agree with much that Oricle says! Even though our pwBPD are mentally ill, they are not to blame for everything. They were not, and are not wrong in every instance. It's very easy to place the blame on them because their behaviors are so often extreme, however, that does not make us blame free.

An apology may not be accepted, understood or make a difference in the way he communicates with you. I do think it will make a difference in the way you communicate with him and others. When we can acknowledge and learn from our mistakes, things can only get better. It does not have to lead to conversation about the relationship and where things went wrong, or lead to a recycle etc. It can simply be an expression of your responsibility in some matter (s) and you can decide where to cut it off. How he responds is up to him. This is about you and your healing process.

Best Wishes,

Val78

[laelle]

If YOU feel you need to apologize, do it for you and your own values.  They may take it well and they may not depending on their current emotional phase, but you know you were honest about how you felt.  Do expect them to use it against you during the next rage tho.  Be prepared to reflect it.  Its not your problem how someone reacts to you being the person that you are.  You are great just the way you are.

[expos]

I haven't posted here in awhile... .  but decided to check in to see how everyone is doing.

I actually wrote a letter to my uBPD ex-wife exactly a month ago after our divorce (that I asked for) was finalized this past November.  In what was probably our very last face-to-face meeting in March, I took the opportunity to talk to her to ask how she was doing, getting closure, and just trying to end on good terms….like a reasonably stable person would try to do.  She took it as one last opportunity to act like a complete b*tch, tell me she was already seeing someone, tell me that our relationship never could have worked, tell me she never needs to see me again, and she’s moving on.    She was utterly and completely disrespectful to a me – a guy she had known for five years and loved her more than any guy ever had. 

After feeling so hurt by someone I really did love, I wrote a letter in which I didn’t apologize, didn’t ask for apology from her, didn’t ask to get back together, told her that I really did love her no matter what, and basically said goodbye.   

As you can imagine, she never wrote back, but I knew that she wouldn’t.  But it helped me get some closure.   It was fantastically powerful letter…so I’m sure it affected her in some way. 

I think if I would have gone the route of apology, I would have kicked myself for giving into her lousy behavior.  I simply will not tolerate such piss poor attitudes and I’m taking my balls back.

So my advice is to not apologize, ever, to a BPD.  Don’t apologize for who you are, since they’ll never apologize for who they are.  Two way street, people.

[wanttoknowmore]

changingtimes,

When pwBPD was dysregulated and was raging and giving silent treatment, I apologized profusely ,asked for forgiveness just one time, pleaded to her to give me a chance... .  BUT... . the result was nothing except I lost more of my self esteem and felt so weak and cowardly afterwards.

My experience is that ,out of our guilt and pain of being discarded, we try to

apologize but its not the right approach as it doesnot touch a pwBPD when she is unstable.

Best course of action is to go comlete NC asap after saying if you ever want to talk to me ... . let me know.  I could not do it in the first 3 weeks but I did it after that. I should have gone NC as soon as her raging started.

[changingme]

So my take on all of this... .  each pwBPD is different and each situation is different and were all heal differently.  This has been interesting finding reading the different suggestions everyone had, even though we all mirror each other in the same depths of pain.  I appreciate all the views and stories for this topic,  it gave me a lot to think about. 

@ex-vamp-slayer

I would rather focus on their bad behavior, but that is not going to get me to where I want to be, which is serenity and peace.

This is exactly where I was going with this.  I have recently starting making a mends, apologizing and opening communication to other people in my life for things that have weighed me down.  I don't know what it is like to be in your situation in a 12 step program, but I can tell you it feels great to let a lot of these things go.  I wish to best to you when you get to that step, that you will have the courage to do it!

@validation78

I must agree with much that Oricle says! Even though our pwBPD are mentally ill, they are not to blame for everything. They were not, and are not wrong in every instance. It's very easy to place the blame on them because their behaviors are so often extreme, however, that does not make us blame free.

An apology may not be accepted, understood or make a difference in the way he communicates with you. I do think it will make a difference in the way you communicate with him and others. When we can acknowledge and learn from our mistakes, things can only get better. It does not have to lead to conversation about the relationship and where things went wrong, or lead to a recycle etc. It can simply be an expression of your responsibility in some matter (s) and you can decide where to cut it off. How he responds is up to him. This is about you and your healing process.

Perfectly said here!

[laelle]

One day I got jealous and made a comment about a girl he was talking to.  Immediately I apologized because it was only twitter and it was someone lots of people were talking to.  It was immature of me and I caught it right off and apologized.  I was wrong and told him so.

During his next rage he brought it up as one of the "bad" things I am.  I told him that I apologized for that almost before I even said it.  He refused to believe that I ever apologized about it.  I guess it was the only bad thing he had on me and had to use it or he couldnt justify whatever it is he was justifying. 

Anyway, the important part of it was that I realized my immature behavior and apologized for it.  I realized it was MY problem.  That is huge for me.

Whatever his reality was doesnt matter, I know.

[slimmiller]

soo many times I apologozed before she triangulated and started the cheating. Many times if it was something totally not my fault I would apologize to patch things up and move on. It seemed easier then dealing with her wrath and rage. 

I now realize I have apologized enough. Doing it again only shows vulnerability and gives her the chance to once again sink her fangs into me emotionally. I wont show her my emotional wounds and say in essence 'see what you did and how you hurt me?' Normal thinking folks would give comfort and soothe you. Not BPD in my expereince. She will just gash me open even deeper. The scorpion does what the scorpion does

-John

[Hurt llama]

I used to apologise for things I regretted and I would be very good at apologies. I would be thoughtful self reflective and motivated out of what I think was normal human emotion of regret or remorse.

But now that I think about it when I read this thread, there were so few times, if any that my exBPD fiancee/gf would give me a heartfelt apology.  That I realized my apologies in general do little for me or her, other than in giving her validation and arming her with ammunition to be later used against me. The apology itself as filed away and 'referenced' as 'proof' that I did things wrong as evidenced and agreed by myself!

I started and somehow stopped a major apology two weeks ago... .  I was actually explaining some very deep reasons that I had ended the engagement and I saw myself teetering with giving her way to much extremely dangerous weapons that I would later regret... .  As I felt myself doing this, I changed the subject and mixed it up so that she didn't follow.

No more apologies.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5N2Bzr7cdM

[Hurt llama]

 

soo many times I apologozed before she triangulated and started the cheating. Many times if it was something totally not my fault I would apologize to patch things up and move on. It seemed easier then dealing with her wrath and rage.  

I now realize I have apologized enough. Doing it again only shows vulnerability and gives her the chance to once again sink her fangs into me emotionally. I wont show her my emotional wounds and say in essence 'see what you did and how you hurt me?' Normal thinking folks would give comfort and soothe you. Not BPD in my expereince. She will just gash me open even deeper. The scorpion does what the scorpion does

-John

So well stated and exactly my experience. Minus the wrath and rage, mine leaned towards passive aggressive and disappearing rather than direct statements other than extremely self serving ones.  

[laelle]

The apology itself as filed away and 'referenced' as 'proof' that I did things wrong as evidenced and agreed by myself!

I could not have said this better myself.   

[Hurt llama]

The apology itself as filed away and 'referenced' as 'proof' that I did things wrong as evidenced and agreed by myself!

I could not have said this better myself.   

that's quite a compliment from my poetic and respected friend. (and I reread what I wrote  before posting as I thought it didn't make sense... .   )

[laelle]

The apology itself as filed away and 'referenced' as 'proof' that I did things wrong as evidenced and agreed by myself!

I could not have said this better myself.   

that's quite a compliment from my poetic and respected friend. (and I reread what I wrote  before posting as I thought it didn't make sense... .   )

LOL, thank you for the compliment as well 

I have found that what your saying is absolutely true.  I remember sharing with him some of the things that I thought I had done wrong in the relationship.  Not as an argument, just as a realization that I had maybe done something that would have hurt him previously.  The next rage, what would never had crossed his mind, was now added to his serving plate of twisted truths.  He presented as if it was he telling me of my failings instead of my having shared it with him.

Like "ooh, ive got you now"   

[gettingoverit]

I am always up for apologizing when one has done something wrong and recognizes it. It's the right thing to do. Having said that however, I don't think apologizing to our BPD's will really do anything but give them more ammo or feed their righteous indignation. Learn from your mistakes in your relationship with your BPD ex and come to peace with that. I for one have apologized more times than I can count when I was with my ex. I wont ever apologize to that woman again. Did I do and say ~ty things... .  yes I did, but I acknowledged them, and hopefully will never do those things again. My ex on the other hand has not learned a darn thing but how to manipulate and lie more effectively. And now that I mention it, I can count on one hand how many times I got an honest heart felt apology for some of the selfish things she did. We do not owe our BPD's a thing. Say you are sorry to the universe and let it go.

[Hurt llama]

I am always up for apologizing when one has done something wrong and recognizes it. It's the right thing to do. Having said that however, I don't think apologizing to our BPD's will really do anything but give them more ammo or feed their righteous indignation. Learn from your mistakes in your relationship with your BPD ex and come to peace with that. I for one have apologized more times than I can count when I was with my ex. I wont ever apologize to that woman again. Did I do and say ~ty things... .  yes I did, but I acknowledged them, and hopefully will never do those things again. My ex on the other hand has not learned a darn thing but how to manipulate and lie more effectively. And now that I mention it, I can count on one hand how many times I got an honest heart felt apology for some of the selfish things she did. We do not owe our BPD's a thing. Say you are sorry to the universe and let it go.

Amen to that.

I can count on one hand how many times I got an honest heart felt apology for some of the selfish things she did.

Same experience and I even doubt my ex is capable of anything that is 'heartfelt' regarding apology and even if she is on extremely rare occasion, it doesn't 'stick'... .  truth is a variable based on present emotion. The shortest way I can explain it for myself is that my ex and probably most BPD people just are extremely immature with an emotional equivalent of a child.