How do you handle NC w/parent when you have children.

[summerc]

My husband and I are really struggling. We are considering going NC with his parents but because we have 4 kids (4 year old twins, 8 yr old and 11 yr old) that have had a relationship with their grandparents we are so overwhelmed and don't know what to do. Sorry in advance for the lengthy post!

Last summer we hit our breaking point with them (we believe his mother is BPD, but she is undiagnosed). We finally came to the realization that she will likely never change, we will always deal with the same issues, and we needed to figure out how we can handle them as they are and how we can keep a relationship on some level despite that.

We sent them an email stating that our goal was to create a relationship with them that works for us, and that our marriage and our kids were our first priority, and we needed to set some boudries with them. We told them we will no longer engage in chaotic, stressful or tense situations, nor would we expose our children to it. We will be focusing on what is best for our family, and not what is best for them. We also told them, we would spend time with them WITH our kids and not sending the kids to their house without us present. We also told them we needed some time to process some things that had occured and we did not want to have any contact for a few weeks.

Probably needless to say, the boundry did not go over all that well, and they pushed it. After a couple of months my husband and I had an emotional conversation with my uBPD MIL, and we actually thought we may have made some progress with it. It was the most receptive to our thoughts and feelings we have ever seen her, and we acually thought we may be able to move forward and heal from some things.

That conversation was back in september, and since then we have spent time with his parents quite a few times. We actually felt like we had made some progress and over those 6 months we didn't have any major drama or issues.

Then a few weeks ago we were at their house to celebrate Easter with them and my husbands siblings and their families. My uBPD MIL said to my 4 year old twins “Grandparents day must be coming up soon! Aren't you excited? We are going to have so much fun”, or something like that. Then she looked at me and asked when it was in front of everyone.

We chose not to invite her it this year because my husband would be at work, and it meant that she would be coming to our house while he was gone, and picking up the twins,  and I was not ready to see her one on one without my husband there.

So... .   I was not expecting the question and I replied  “my mom and grandma came to the one this year, and then you guys can do the one next year”.

I should have gotten up and talked with her privately about it, but I kind of stumbled over my words and that's just what came out.

She walked away when I said it and went outside. She came back in about an hour later when we were packing up to leave. She had obviously been crying. We said goodbye to everyone and then left.

Later that night my husband received a call from his dad. He started off ready to rant and not even attempting a rational conversation. He went on about things that did not pertain to the situation from the weekend, said that the things we talked about back in the fall were all petty things, he called my own mother a btch, told my husband that my uBPD MIL had been close to suicide several times over the past year because of what we have done, and if he loved his mother, he would never do this to her.

My husband pretty much just listened, and then just responding at the end telling his dad not to call my mom a btch, and that we were clear from the beginning last summer when we took a step back from them that we would be taking some time and space from them, and that the things that have led us to this point was not “petty”.

The following day we received a string of texts from my uBPD MIL that told us we we are causing our children deep emotional pain by not allowing them to spend time with our kids. That we are treating them like child molesters by giving them “supervised visitation”, and that they will not allow us to treat them in such a demeaning behavior anymore.

She told us that our 8 year old daughter shared with her that she cries on the bus and the bus stop because she misses grandma so much. (we know this to be a lie... . our daughter did not come to her and tell her she cries on the bus or bus stop because she misses her so much).

She also told us that if things don't get worked out our kids will come to them when they are older and will find out the truth and all the things we did to keep them away from them all these years.

We did not respond to any of the texts, and took a few days to figure out where to go from there.

In the meantime, both of them were sending emails to our 11 yr old son, stating how much they love him, over and over. And saying “in case you don't know our phone numbers... .   here they are. We hope to hear from you”.

Being that he is only 11, we monitor his email, and we caught most of these before he saw them, and forwarded them to ourselves and deleted them from his account.

After a few days we tried calling to talk with them, but did not get a hold of them or get a call back so we emailed them. Basically the email stated that the current behavior from them is exactly why we set the boundries in the first place, and exactly what is unnacceptable if we are to have a relationship.

We told them that it is emotional abuse to blame us for his mom's emotional instability and her being close to suicide.  We stated we are not doing any of this to “punish” them, (as they say) but to take care of ourselves and our family.

We told them that the kids are our kids and we get to decide when and how much they see them. We told them that they are putting a responsibility on the kids shoulders to make them feel better by being emotional around the kids and going on and on to them about how they miss them and wished they could see them more.

We told them that for the time being, we don't want to talk to them. We cannot be a part of this chaos and drama and we asked them not to contact us or our children, and that we would contact them when we were ready. We told them we once again need time to process everything that has gone on in the past few weeks.

AND then we got the major blow up emails... .   the responses to our email. I can't even being to summarize them so I will just post the emails. Sorry... . they are long.

I changed names to who the people are in the family. My husbands name to (son) and mine to (daughter in law) and everyone elses as well. 

***After adding the emails... .   I realized I was past the maximum characters... .   so I will post them in a response.

[summerc]

Son,

 

I have always been proud of you (son) and what you have done with your life. And (daughter in law) I have always loved and adored you as well.

 

But You both need a good slap on the side of the head! It’s only because I love you that I’m going to be straight on honest with you!

 

You two are so afraid!

 

You are both so insecure about your ability to love and parent. It simply blows my mind.

 

There is NO possible way anyone could come between your children’s love for you and you as their parents... .   GROW UP!

 

But you can destroy their trust in you… By not listening to them. By denying their feelings…. By minimizing how they feel by blaming others for causing those feelings. 

 

As a Mother, I cannot understand feeling as insecure as a parent. Your children adore you!  But you cannot see it because you are so afraid.  You both are so hyper about every word being said and your blowing it out of proportion…  You see me as a threat… That I have somehow made the children love me more than you. That the twins will love me. I hate to see what happens when they are dating! Or worse when they get married and they want to spend time with their in-laws. What will you do then… Will you freak out because they want to be with the other family?

 

Simply if you don’t examine your insecurities this is only going to get worse and destroy your relationships with your children.

 

Yes, they are your children…  But with that comes responsibility… And that is to act in the manner of taking responsibility for your actions and make amends.

 

You both wallow in self-pity and it’s pathetic how you have spread it all over our family and then some this past year.

 

I have been  verbally assaulted by both of you over and over again and then you shut down any process that could heal those verbal assaults.

 

Then you turn right around and twist everything around that you are the VICTIMS!

 

I’m sorry about the phone call you got from your Dad the other night… Those phone calls are hard to get I got 3 of them from you last summer and in which you accused me of causing (daughter in law) emotional distress. You have never even apologized for any of it.

 

We are simply stressed out.  We have been emotional hostages from the both of you by having it hang over our heads that any moment you can just end our relationship. That is emotional abuse. To have the things said to me that the both of you have said  in the most uncaring manner…I was more than graceful to you both. Yet, you have never ever cared to hear or listen to me or anyone else for that matter. You both just make up a story line to what you think my intentions are then by God you hold onto that.

 

Part of this emotional abuse is the name calling… Drama Queen…  I came to the Kid’s birthday party… You verbally assaulted me months prior, you justified not talking to me like a 3 year old would and then you threatened to verbally assault me at their party and embarrass me in front of everyone. I was extremely depressed at the time but I showed up. I never cry but I cried a lot that day.  I tried not to but I did. And you called me a DRAMA QUEEN. How abusive is that?

 

You called me manipulative and mean, nasty and you said you were ashamed of me. You said I lied about Grandpa! And then you run away and refuse to process what you have said and done. This isn’t a strain between us… You are being emotionally abusive to me and you have done it in front of other people. And I have allowed it. Because I thought you were going through a lot and it would get better.

 

YES! I have strong emotions when I see the kids… Who wouldn’t cry, (son) We barely see them…

 

Right now, you are only taking  them to see (daughter in law)’s family. For years I’ve watched that whole dynamic develop over the years. I always told your Dad this would be coming someday.   You have kicked (daughter in law's father) out of the family how many times?  The kids have asked us many times why they can’t see him. We just kept telling them to ask you and they told us you won’t tell him anything.

 

Now it’s us. I’m the bad guy. Your Dad is the bad guy. (daughter in law's father) is the bad guy. Who next? (sister)? I can already tell you she is scared to death you will do this to her next. And I beg of you… You do not turn this on her. She loves you (son) and it would kill her. All she wants is to have this all worked out. That is all anyone wants.

 

Your kids are going into difficult years. You have set them up to be confused. You are unable to be honest with yourself about your behavior and take responsibility for your own actions. Your own insecurities.

 

You have yet to take any responsibility for anything in all of this. All you both can do is call yourselves victims.

 

You have been a bully to me… Both of you have this past year. You have done such nasty things and justified it with “It’s what works for us”. Well you can have it.

 

To purposely manipulate the kids to thinking we don’t want to be in their lives is emotional abuse.  Look at the Power and Control Wheel (son)… Right there in the abuse wheel is manipulating the children. That is what you are doing….

 

That certainly is your choice. They will be sharing or for that matter not share it with you how they feel when they are adults. More than likely they will call you up and rage at you and then refuse to talk to you. Because that is what you taught them.

 

As for your Dad’s comment about my being emotionally unstable? I didn’t even know he was talking to you.

 

And yes, last summer when you called and verbal assaulted us on the phone raged at us over and over again. Screaming at us not even allowing us to talk. Then refusing to even process this assault. I was down… I was lower than whale ~. I’m not blaming you… It was because I wanted so badly to work this out I made changes and I kept getting bashed down.

 

And there was a night (son) the day on (our 11 yr old sons)’s birthday that I begged to come and talk to you. That night your Dad had to get me help… It was embarrassing to need that kind of help. I’ve always been strong. But I’m finding I’m not. My friends came.  Pastor John was there. My Dr. has been involved.  And they have been there for me. And everyone has told me that you are being abusive to me. Both of you are. And I have let it happened.

 

To say your Dad left that at your feet is disgusting and shame on YOU! But if you couldn’t hear the pain of what he was going through, then you have somehow lost the ability to have compassion for either one of us.

 

You have taken my inventory over and over again.

 

You don’t know me! At all.

 

I do know (son) that both of you are cowards! I have had more ~ thrown at me my entire life. But I didn’t lay down throw ~ all over everyone and then feel sorry for myself.

I went into recovery for so much god dame abuse and I did therapy because I didn’t want to live like a VICTIM!

 

I had the courage to do the work. I didn’t run away from my ~… I got sober, I went to therapy and I worked my ass off. Your Dad worked his ass off in therapy…  We had dialogue with our families and we continue to do that.

 

You both were spoiled kids when you were growing up. I take the responsibility (son) for spoiling you rotten. Never making you accountable for your behavior when you were little. And it shows.

 

When you point the finger at me point it back at yourselves. About wedging? (son and daughter in law)  have done that! You have tried that with the other 4 members of our family. And you have continued to tried to  drive a wedge in between all of us. That is why you are so afraid of it happening with your kids because you have done this!

 

Deep down (son) you are afraid to do therapy…Because you don’t want to face the truth about yourselves… You would be force to take a look at your own behavior and have to take responsibility for what you and (daughter in law) have done to our family. How you have hurt everyone. If you think asking (twin 1) and (twin 2) about Grandparents day and your Dad’s phone call caused more drama. Bull ~… You caused it… Both of you did… And too bad it came out accidently in front of everyone. Why didn’t you call us that night and tell us what you had done.

 

Get a life… You have taken the fun out of every family event this past year. Both of you! Can you get it through your heads! All this ~ you through out on all of us has hurt us. Deal with it and clean it up.

 

You think you can get off easy by twisting the story about I dumped my bad feelings onto (our daughter) so she felt she had to make me feel better. That is insane! 

The minute we got outside she told me how she has been feeling. That is your fault no one else’s. Grow up and deal with it before it causes her great pain.

 

Again neither one of You don’t listen to your kids. I’ve seen you ignore them time after time about how they feel… You can’t provide any reasons to why you and (daughter in law) have done this.  You both are to blame for this mess because you can’t grow up and deal with problems and resolve them.

 

The fake email from (11 yr. Old son) the other night…  Shame on you!

 

Keeping his email from him… Shame on you!

 

My Physiatrist instructed me to make sure the kids know we love them and they can come see us anytime. That it is important that they don’t think we don’t want them here or in our lives. He shared how emotionally painful it would be for them to think we rejected them. All you can think about is whining about how it makes you look. That it makes you look bad. And you what… going to think about how your not going to be in a relationship with us that works for you…  How you are not going to talk to us and how you not going to come to family gatherings at all. Because you made a mess and can’t deal with it…

 

I can promise you both this, (daughter and her husband), and (other son and his wife) would never put their children in the middle of something like this. Because they are adults!

 

Don’t even think your going to wave your “RUINING THE BIRTH” story with  (son and his wife)  having their baby…  No one ruined any births… For Christ sakes, We didn’t look at you when we walked into the room when the twins were born. After getting so many mixed messages and orders on when and where we are to be and not be when they were born. It’s all so crazy and controlling. Just chill out! We were just trying not to upset you… We were walking on eggs. And we were thrilled to see the babies. It was amazing. But you can’t see how thrilled we were because you think we didn’t look at you… For crying out loud…  Who is the DRAMA QUEEN.

 

The family Christmas weekend. Oh my gosh (son)…  Are you that touchy… It ruined your anniversary… We simply didn’t  want to drive to (our home town)… We were both exhausted from driving. Get over yourselves and think about others. We both just got back to work and wanted some time alone. We do have the right to say no. I don’t owe either one of you anything. Just because you snapped your fingers and we didn’t jump you both got pissed and felt sorry for yourselves. The focus for us that weekend, was it was our first family gathering since (Grandmothers)’s death. Do you two get that. Your Dad was grieving, I was grieving and it was complicated as hell. I was nervous as hell getting together and we wanted to set up the townhouse for them. Did you two even stop to think about his Mom just passed away? He was hurting! The entire  Family was hurting let alone (uncle) is using drugs…  We are all worried about (aunt)’s stability... . God how could you two be so insensitive?  My Mom was just diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. She is losing her mind, her ability to function, her ability to take care of herself... . She had started her kitchen on fire that week. I was stressed out to the max worrying about her. During this entire year did you two ever stop to think that both of us had lost or losing their Mothers? Not at all. You have both put us through hell and back.

 

Neither one of you have apologized to (all the siblings and spouses) on the stress you brought to their homes when they had gatherings.

 

You brought all this crap to their home on Christmas. (other son) had worked for years wanting us all there. Strain… You’re the strain… Both of you… Get over yourselves…                                                                                                                                                                

 

I’m done running after you. I will be at family gatherings and I will be myself. And I’m going camping with everyone. I will not walk on eggs anymore and no one else is going to.

 

And you two… Can either hide out and talk to each other about how everyone else is so bad… Feel sorry for yourselves. I expect you will just cut your family off (son)…Or me or both of us. Make some kind of drama bull~ from here on out that you can’t talk to me or see me…

 

I know your dad is frantic right now trying to contact you. I’ve told him not to. He is only going to get hurt. And you both will hurt him. You made him feel responsible for calling you and crying… Yes. He said something’s he should not have said.  EVERYONE HAS! But (son)… He was sobbing…  His Dad never cared. Never even made a phone call. One time he went out there and knocked on the door and (grandpa) just walked away from the door. You cannot imagine the grief he has had having the father that betrayed him in so many ways. You cannot begin to understand how losing you is hurting him. You just flippantly slammed the door shut on him. THIS IS WHAT UNACCPECTLBLE IS (SON) .

 

We should be focused on our new grandbaby and looking forward to sharing that with you but we can’t because of all this ~. Our wedding anniversary is coming up we can’t celebrate that with you. Mother’s Day and Father’s Day is coming up so is your birthday and (other son’s). All of it is ruined because of this ~!

 

Last Year  we should have been celebrating (daughter and husband) moving back here and getting a job. But you both had to take center stage with all of your ~. (other grandchild's) birthday party should have been about him… It wasn’t.

[summerc]

 here is the rest of the email from MIL and the one from FIL

I don’t care anymore.

I’m done.

I will be sending (our 11 yr. Old son) emails. And I expect you two to respect him enough and our relationship to let him read them.

I will not contact either one of you again if there is an emergency someone will get a hold of you or you can find out on facebook like we have since this past year.

I have said I’m sorry. Several times for everything…

I will not say it again




Contact me only when you are willing to apologize for all the  you both have put me through!

AND I WILL FORGIVE YOU!

Immediately!

With no strings or anything attached because that is who I am!

By the way, our roof needs to be done this year… I expect you to man up and  be here to help.

Love your Mom!


Son,

I left you a voice mail and I’m responding to this. If you thought I wouldn’t respond you do not know me very well. I am NOT my dad and I will NOT leave you wondering whether you and your family matter to me or not. They do! Way more than I think you understand at this time.

First, I am sorry Sunday night’s call did not go as I intended – to help move us towards reconciliation. I take full responsibility that I was unable to get past my emotions and have a more productive discussion. On the other hand you could have stepped in at any time and at least attempted to make it a two-way conversation. It probably would have been difficult, but there is no doubt at all it would have been more productive than it was. And the call was triggered by way more than the grandparents day issue, but it was a contributing factor.

Also, I apologize for calling (daughter in law's mother) what I did. That should not have been part of it.

There is one and only one reason our relationship is strained: YOUR AND (DAUGHTER IN LAW)’S REFUSAL TO DISCUSS IT WITH US! Plain and simple. You have discussed it with everyone but us. I accept your opinion that past discussions between the four of us were not productive. We were not aware of that until last summer. But that is no reason to stop trying.

You obviously have a lot of unresolved issues with your mom and me. Simply staying away from us is NOT going to solve any of them. Therapy will not be easy, but there just isn’t any other way – PERIOD! Therapy is more than just talking. Many of the issues you have raised both below and what we’ve gotten second and third hand cannot be addressed without serious professional help.

I will not attempt to discuss in detail any of our issues by email or text message. They WILL BE DISCUSSED FACE-TO-FACE.

I love you so very much (son). I’ve made mistakes and I will make more, as will you. But there is nothing we cannot resolve if we try. And there is nothing that absolutely, positively guarantees failure more than not trying. Failure in this is NOT AN OPTION.

You are my son and I WILL NOT EVER simply walk away from you or allow you to walk away from us and the rest of this family without doing everything in my power to keep that from happening. I have sat by on the side lines for most of the past year. That ends here and now! Your refusal to discuss this with me and your mom ends here and now! Your request for us to not have any contact with you is DENIED! As your dad it is my responsibility to help you to avoid making serious mistakes and your current behavior is a serious mistake and is costing everyone involved way too much and is completely unacceptable.

I hope you are able to accept and understand what matters to me is that we start the process of healing this rift. I am frustrated beyond belief and I know I say and do things that make it worse at times. It is never my intention to do so. But so do you and (daughter in law). None of us is without blame in this game. Your mom and I are willing to step up to the plate and take responsibility for our mistakes. It way past time for you and (daughter in law) to do the same.

You will be hearing from me again and again and again. Like it or not.

Love,

Dad

[summerc]

ok so really sorry for SUCH a long post... .   I didn't think it was THAT long... .   but apparently it is! I just am so overwhelmed and in shock and can't even think straight after reading the email from my MIL.

So... .   we are so totally at a loss of where to go from here. How have you handled relationships with parents/in laws when there are children involved. The kids love their grandma and grandpa, and we have never spoke negatively of them to the kids. But they definitely do know there is something going on. I guess we feel guilt over going NC because that includes the kids as well, and we are worried about how to handle that with the kids.

Thanks for any input or advice!

Oh and we have an appt with a therapist in 2 weeks, and I have one with mine in a week. So hopefully that will help us too!

[XL]

"Your request for us to not have any contact with you is DENIED!"



Obviously. (Sorry. It's funny.)

Ugh. The length alone shows they are they ones who are out of touch. I keep coming back to this; when people can't take any criticism or requests for change or accommodation, it's impossible to work with them. A normal person steps on your toes and apologizes. A careless person doesn't notice, but apologizes when prompted. These people intentionally step on your toes, then blame your toes for being there.

You would be wise to set up better digital boundaries with the kids. Like a new email address.

I keep reading all these stories like this on here (I don't have kids). I am baffled that grandparents think they own their grandkids or have visitation rights. I only saw either grandparents once a year; this is just bizarre to me that some families have grandparents angling for this intrusive level of interaction.

[GeekyGirl]

That is quite an e-mail! It's tough dealing with these situations, and even more so when kids are involved. They already have a relationship with your kids.  From the looks of this e-mail, they're making many demands (from fixing their roof to changing your behavior), and this had to have been a very hard e-mail to read.

XL has a good point. Your best bet is to set some iron-clad boundaries where the kids are involved. I agree that setting some firm limits around e-mail communication is a very good idea. Monitoring your kids' e-mail is one good way to see what's going on.

Have the kids said anything to you about what's going on with your in-laws? What have you told the kids so far?

[judebug]

I feel like your post is a dialogue of my situation!

Here lies the problems that I have found with NC, if you still allow your children to keep contact with them:

1) You are no longer "united" as a family when it comes to setting boundaries.

2) It is only a matter of time before MIL tells your children her perspective (which will either be blatant lies or extremely off base)

3) Because MIL is a master of manipulation, the boundaries you and H have set, will not be respected. She will find ways to get information to you through your children. I feel like that behavior not only being done by her, but witnessed by your kids, is worse for your kids to see than NC at all. 

Remember that you are their parents, you know what is best for them. If it's not good for you, it's not good for them. It is hard enough for us, as adults, to understand BPD and to wrap our minds around the antics and games they play. Explain the situation to your children, let them know WHY you are going NC. If/when your MIL respects those boundaries and you attempt a start at another relationship with them, let your kids be a part of the healing process too. It's better they start understanding her mental illness now and with guidance from you and the H than all on their own.

I hope this helps. It is all so draining. You wonder how one person can have the ability to literally suck the life from you. I always tell my H, I know we are too close to the situation and need to take a step back, when I start feeling like I am crazy one , and it all seems to happen SO quickly. Please let me know what you decide to do and how it plays over. I am going through this right now as well... .  

[summerc]

Yes, I agree XL. My son has access to his email at school when they do certain projects, so I am checking his email every couple of hours to while he is at school because I don't know when he gets computer time, and I just don't know what they might send him. A new email address might be the next step.

We have not told the kids much, because we truly don't want them to think badly of their grandma and grandpa, and I did not want them having to worry about and deal with a problem that they shouldn't have to as kids.

But if do we go NC, then we would obviously need to give them more information about what is going on. Basically all we have told them so far is Mom and Dad are trying to work some things out with Grandma and Grandpa right now.

Judebug, I am so sorry you are going through the same thing. It is so exhausting! So are you, husband, and kids NC, or gone through periods of NC?

I completely agree with you... .  I feel like if her behavior causes so much anxiety for my husband and myself, and we don't know how to handle it, how can we expect our children to know how to handle it

I will let you know what we decide. Hopefully after we see our therapists we will have some sense of what we need to do from here.

[judebug]

We go through periods of NC. Right now we are NC, per MIL orders from the FIL. Which works fine for me... .  . Not so much for the H though. Lately, I just have to keep telling myself that, "My MIL's mental illness will not take up space in my life". It's easy to become angry or frustrated at the person causing so much havoc. I have to remind myself it's not HER, it is her mental illness. Only she can make the changes needed to help herself. There's no need for me to try and explain or talk anything out with her right now, when she isn't able to control or reason with herself and her own thoughts.

Going through your son's emails every few hours and seems time consuming and you are still allowing her to control your daily (hourly) activities. Not to mention, though I absolutely agree with monitoring your children's email, he has done nothing to deserve this much of an invasion of privacy.  Even if he doesn't know about it, it's the fact of the matter. If he does know you're doing this, it might cause some confusion on his end when trying to explain why you are going NC with grandma, when you and your H are using similar control tactics.