What to Do?

[Parents! Get help here!]

Good morning everyone   

Here I am again... .  

So much has happened over the last month, I'm not sure where to even begin   

My BPD dd35 is on a rampage since March 10th.  She sent me a text saying she just wanted me to know that she was "molested, beaten, emotionally abused, and eventually raped" by men I brought into our lives.  She said she doesn't want anything to do with me (NC) and I will never see her children.  She said the only person she has ever told is her ex - and he was going to "out her" to me and her father.  I have visted with my T and we feel she did this in desperation (tell me what she told him) to justify her behavior.  She refuses to tell me any details and I believe that this is because it is lies and she knows that it wouldn't make sense to me given timelines, people in our lives at specific times, etc.  So NC is better than having me realize its all lies.

Long story short - she has now texted my sister, her sister's best friend, called them, called an ex step brother, texted her own sister over 150 times in one day (250 in a week)... .  and gone off the deep end.  She is saying she is homeless, and she is obviously in a desperate situation.  My sister went to the T - actually the same one I see so that made it easier to understand the situation.  Anyway, last night my sister and I were concerned over her and I broke the NC with her by calling and saying that S (my sister) feels like she (my dd) needs me out there... .  she lives out of state.  She put me off by saying she was with a friend and she will call me tomorrow.

So as I wait for her call, I am very nervous about what to say.  Everyone is on edge about the possibility of her doing something - like suicidal.  So I know I need to tread lightly, but still be strong enough to try to have a boundary about her raging at me.  This all is just killing me, and now she is bringing in all these other people to "align" against me, according to my T.  If anyone has any suggestions about how to move forward with this mess... .  I would greatly appreciate some input           ... .  I'm a nervous wreck!

[suchsadness]

Good morning everyone   

Here I am again... .  

So much has happened over the last month, I'm not sure where to even begin   

My BPD dd35 is on a rampage since March 10th.  She sent me a text saying she just wanted me to know that she was "molested, beaten, emotionally abused, and eventually raped" by men I brought into our lives.  She said she doesn't want anything to do with me (NC) and I will never see her children.  She said the only person she has ever told is her ex - and he was going to "out her" to me and her father.  I have visted with my T and we feel she did this in desperation (tell me what she told him) to justify her behavior.  She refuses to tell me any details and I believe that this is because it is lies and she knows that it wouldn't make sense to me given timelines, people in our lives at specific times, etc.  So NC is better than having me realize its all lies.

Long story short - she has now texted my sister, her sister's best friend, called them, called an ex step brother, texted her own sister over 150 times in one day (250 in a week)... .  and gone off the deep end.  She is saying she is homeless, and she is obviously in a desperate situation.  My sister went to the T - actually the same one I see so that made it easier to understand the situation.  Anyway, last night my sister and I were concerned over her and I broke the NC with her by calling and saying that S (my sister) feels like she (my dd) needs me out there... .  she lives out of state.  She put me off by saying she was with a friend and she will call me tomorrow.

So as I wait for her call, I am very nervous about what to say.  Everyone is on edge about the possibility of her doing something - like suicidal.  So I know I need to tread lightly, but still be strong enough to try to have a boundary about her raging at me.  This all is just killing me, and now she is bringing in all these other people to "align" against me, according to my T.  If anyone has any suggestions about how to move forward with this mess... .  I would greatly appreciate some input           ... .  I'm a nervous wreck!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

suchsaddness

oh how I wish I knew what to tell you. My dd is young and I have different issues.

Do you think if you told her you were sorry she was molested etc... .  that she would come around? Maybe if you told her you want to prosecute these men and needed more detail? Would that kind of put the issue to rest? She either accepts your apology and gives you the names and date or she will have to put it behind her because it is not based on the truth.

Sometimes I can find the smallest piece of truth in my dd15 stories... .  is this what your dd is doing?

I do think the more she tries to push you away the more I think she actually really wants you in her life. She is just trying to hurt you. ARe you sure you want to go and see her? She sounds like she is really off balance right now? What are you hoping to do for her that she can't do for hereself?

I wish I was more help to you... .  my dd says she was raped in 8th grade by a friends brother... .  I really am not sure it happened because of all the lies she tells but when she brings it up I tell her how sorry I am that this has happened to her, Maybe your daughter just wants someone to acknowledge her pain... .  big hug to you... .  

[suchsadness]

Thanks jellibeans... .  some very good things to think about.

I have in the past told her I'm sorry for the choices I made in my life that caused you pain.  She had never said she was molested to me before - and yes maybe that is what I need to say is that I'm sorry for all the things you have been through.  I'm just VERY leary of the sorry word because she takes that as verification that everything is my fault.  Then she can use this against me forever - which she is doing anyway.

All her claims go back 30 years, so I'm pretty sure there would be no reality in prosecution.  Also, her ex-step father had an accident and is brain injured at this point... .  so memory is an issue there too.  But even if she would give me details, it would help me understand what she is accusing people of.  Her stories are SOO bizzare, like my ex duct taped her sister to a pole and made her watch my ex rape her!  Her sister has absolutely NO recall of anything so awful happening - and so my dd35 says that is because she repressed it.  And just like your dd - there are bits of truth sprinkled into these bizzare stories that make me run through the past with a fine tooth comb!  She also said that one of the "sleezeballs" I dated made her take pictures of herself naked and put them between her mattress and bedframe and he would pick them up later... .  of course no name is mentioned because I can honestly say that there was NEVER a man left alone with her at our house during this timeframe.  It is so out-there bizzare that I can't even wrap my mind around all this... .  

[suchsadness]

Oh and jellibeans... .  I'm not even sure what I think I could do by going out there!  I think I actually fell back into the trap because my sister is feeling like this "MAY" be true and she is desperate - at a low where she could do self harm.  She kept saying in her text to my sister that "a good mother would pick up the phone or go out there in person if they heard such awful news about what happened to their child!"   So late last night I "picked up the phone"... .  feels today like a trap.  Do you think there is anything that I could do?  I know my other dd37 is in the same city along with her ex, and they are both very concerned about her at this point as well.  Her ex asked my dd37 if there is anyone back home who could do anything to help her.  I don't know... .  sigh... .  sigh... .     :'(

[jellibeans]

suchsadden

It is a tough problem for sure but I think trying to prove or disprove it might be a waste of energy... .  then it is a pwoer struggle of sorts... .  who is right who is wrong... .  who cares! I think lbj posted something really good the other day about focusing on the present and future rather than the past... .  here it is... .  it really hit home for me

I made a deliberate and conscious choice to let go of the past in order to create a future that looked different.  I asked myself this question:

Is holding on to the past and the pain going to get me the results I long for?  

The answer was simply "no".  

The next question:

What do I need to do to create free space (no fear, no resentment, no anger) so that myself and my daughter can go forward?

The answer is "forgiveness".

When I forgave all the wrongs, all the hurt she caused me, all the mistakes I made in not knowing how to respond to her in the most helpful way I freed us from the past.  The road ahead, the skills needed for us both would be hard to learn, practice and make our own.  The task of making the past right would only stop forward progress.

So I ask you ______, what is more important the past or the present and future?

Which one do you want to invest your time, energy, emotions in?

This really is something I have been think about alot... .  so many times we are living in the past... .  reliving these bad experiences... .  how can you get your dd to move on... .  and you too... .  think about that because I thnk it is the key to happiness... .  hugs to you... .  I know it is easier said than done especially when she is accusing you of not being a good mother etc... .  

[suchsadness]

Thanks - and yes I agree that the past needs to be forgiven and moving on is the target.  My dd35 is the one hanging on to it (the past) for dear life - and now letting her BPD dx cripple her.  She is researching it to death and hanging on to the childhood trauma cause as if it is her lifline.  It is so sad.  She just texted me that she is living in her car and she is done (with her family) - and sent me the texts from her sister that said she forwarded her texts to her ex.  I have a response written that says "This is so heartbreaking.  Is there anything I can do?  I love you and care about you."  I'm actually sitting here with my phone in front of me contemplating on hitting the send button... .  what to do?

[jellibeans]

suchsadden... .  I think that is a good response... .  keep it short and supportive... .  makes me think she wouldn't keep telling you her plans if she didn't want help... .  

[suchsadness]

Well... .  I DID hit the send button, and got a response back in 5 seconds... .  "No".   Not sure what to do with that except accept it.   

[jellibeans]

Let her cool off... .  keep some distance than... .  you have offered help... .  if no is the only thing she can say than no it is... .  is she is therapy? meds? anything?

[suchsadness]

She said she had been getting free sessions through the college, as a volunteer type patient for interns... .  great!  They ended up giving her the phone numbers of local therapists because she needed more intense therapy according to them!  YA THINK.   No Ned's as far as I know.  She's broke and without insurance.

[suchsadness]

Oops... .  I meant no medication as far as I know, at least right now.  She had some for bipolar in the past.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

oh suchsadden... .  I see where you get your name from... .  it is hard not to feel sorry for her... .  does her sister have any pull with her... .  can she try to convince her to get some help?

[suchsadness]

Her and her sister are like oil and water, hot and cold to each other and neither one is supportive of the other.  They also frequently put me in the middle of their problems, you know that dysfunctional triangle!  I have gotten better about staying out of their issues between them but it is hard.  I would say tho that her sister is definitely the more considerate and has compassion.  Her sister has my grand children's best interest and welfare in her heart.

[pessim-optimist]

Suchsadness,

I just read this thread... .        

I think the "no" text is possibly a godsend, since you said that you felt earlier like going out there would be a trap... .  

Do you think it would make her feel better if you replied: "Ok, I love you honey."?

When did your dd come up with the sexual abuse accusations? Was she already in the free sessions through college?

The story about her sister being duct taped and made to watch and 'repressing' the memory reminded me of a book I read a while ago. It is called: "The Myth of Repressed Memory: False Memories and Allegations of Sexual Abuse" [Elizabeth Loftus, Katherine Ketcham]

It describes that such 'memories' can be unintentionally created during therapy if the patient is highly suggestive and/or during hypnosis... .  

Not that it would solve your problem with your dd, or help her, but it might give you some clues as to whether your feeling is justified that your dd's memories of abuse may not be based in reality... .  

Also, I don't know if/when your dd will be ready, but lbj's post about investing our energy into the future might be a good point to your dd as well one day, in case she comes to a conclusion she would like to work on herself and get better as opposed to remaining the victim... .  

[suchsadness]

I only recently heard these claims of abuse from her and it was according to her just to take the power away from her ex.  That is the first reason I have doubts because she told him this is the reason she behaves the way she does.  and then such awful things, and the other person involved has absolutely no memory.  I don't want to argue whether its true or not and try to defend myself or any of the past... .  I just want us to move forward.  I have had thoughts of offering to fly her to where we are to get help from my T, but am wondering if that would be a conflict of interest?  I have employee assistance program that covers sessions at no cost so I'm thinking maybe we could use it for our relationship situation.  I need to check this all out with my T.  If she agrees I would like to address my dd's rage toward me based on her childhood problems she is blaming me for... .  and hopefully try to move forward.  Not sure my dd would ever agree to this!

[pessim-optimist]

I see.

The reason I mentioned the book in the first place was because it talks about how certain types of therapy if done the wrong way can actually CREATE false memories in highly suggestible patients... .  (so I was wondering if that's what happened to your dd, and if it would help you put some of your doubts to rest... .  )

I do not know what would help, but I think that your idea of wanting to move forward and not arguing is a good one. I personally would probably try to wait and see if it was just a temporary issue or something that your dd will focus on a lot. Hope your T can help with some wise suggestions... .  

[suchsadness]

 

Thanks pessim-optimist! There was something in your post that lit the light for me.  I think it was putting it to rest, and see if it's a temporary thing.  I really want to work on moving on... .  and I think the only way is to deal with it once and for all.  So, I am thinking about writing her a sorry type letter, and I know the dangers of that have already been discussed here on this board.  I know that she may use it to throw in my face in the future, but I will talk to my T about it before sending.  I am wondering if people would read this and give me some feedback as well.  I know I don't want to hash over everything she wrote to my sister (which was 7 pages) about what went wrong in her childhood, so I am going to lump it into a couple of categories. Now remember that I think that what she wrote is either false or distorted.  Here goes:

":)d, S (my sister) let me read your texts about your childhood.  My heart broke as I read about those horrible things.  I am sorry that I was not aware that anything like this could be happening to you and W (her sister).  I am also sorry that I hurt you with the things I said and did.  I pray that you can find it in your heart to forgive me and others who have hurt you in the past.  I love you and you are so important in my life, your boy's life, and many other people who love and care about you.  If there is anything I can do in your healing process, I am here for you."

Please let me know your thought... .  thanks everyone.   

[jellibeans]

suchsadden

I think tis is good... .  I think it really isn't important if the event happened or not... .  your dd feels like she has been wronged and rather than wasting energy trying to prove or disprove I think it is good to simply say what you have said... .  an important theme I keepin my head is "if they could do better they would" same goes for us as parents... .  we can only do the best we can with what knowledge and understanding we have... .  we are not prefect people and we don't expect prefection from them either... .  I relly hope this letter touches your dd... .  I wrote a letter to my dd recently and I really think it made an impact on her... .  when they can't hear us some times a letter can get through to them... .  

I am sending a hug your way... .  wishing good things for you and your dd... .    

[suchsadness]

Thanks jellibeans.  I am hanging on to the letter for my next T visit.  My sister and I are going to see if the T will see us together, but I have a feeling it could be a while before we can even get in.

Interesting couple of days too.  My dd35 told me (via text) that her therapists, counselor  and friends are all telling her to reach out to her Mom.  She said that she confided in my sister because she is the only one that she felt safe secure and loved with.  She basically said she was not going to go tell me anything about any of the things she told my sister and that my sister knew everything.  I said I was sorry for her pain I love her and I hang onto the hope that we will have a healthy relationship someday.  That was a few days ago.  Today I get a text from her asking me what I thought I could do if I came out there she was just curious.  I said that my sister told me she thought my dd35 needed to talk to me and since she had told me she wanted to have no contact with me it might be a way to open the door for some communication.  She wrote back and said that my coming out there for a few days would not accomplish anything and in fact it might make it worse.  She also said that what she needs is a decent place to live and intensive therapy neither of which she has right now.  And then she said that basically trying to work on our relationship is not a priority for her or on her need need to take care of list so save my money and vacation time.  I wrote back and said I understand, and I have faith that she will find a way to move forward with the things she needs.  Her response was "yeah, u hang on to that faith!"

Soo... .  I am pretty sure that she was hoping I would make an offer to help her financially meet the need of a decent place to live and intensive therapy.  And I am sure that in her eyes I have let her down yet another time.  What fun, what fun!

[pessim-optimist]

Thanks jellibeans.  I am hanging on to the letter for my next T visit.  My sister and I are going to see if the T will see us together, but I have a feeling it could be a while before we can even get in.

I think that's a good plan.

Soo... .  I am pretty sure that she was hoping I would make an offer to help her financially meet the need of a decent place to live and intensive therapy.  And I am sure that in her eyes I have let her down yet another time.  What fun, what fun!

I know, no fun... .  

I think you upheld your boundary there without having to state it. 

Do you think that you will be able to practice 'detachment with love' in this situation?

[lbjnltx]

Coming in late here with a question suchsadness.

Did the accusations from your dd coincide with her exploration of her dx of BPD/attending therapy w/interns?

Many "pros" still base the presence of the diagnoses of BPD as synonymous with ongoing sexual abuse.  Much of the information published (older stuff) also mentions ongoing abuse/sexual abuse.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[suchsadness]

Well I am sure trying the detachment with love approach and was proud of myself that I used some things I've heard on the site, with stating I have faith that you can solve your own problem.  It helps when it is texting verses live conversations. I have even gone so far as to write it out before I text it.  Practice practice!

I am feeling a little bad for my sister who is beside herself about the abuse claims my dd told her about... .  and now that seems to have passed with my dd. This really makes me think even more that it was to let everyone in on the same stories she told her ex when she was justifying her behaviors. My sister is a very caring and compassionate person, and she has not had much exposure to my dd's BPD behaviors.      So she is thinking she needs to make things better for her.  It will be good if we can visit the T together to help her understand BPD.

[suchsadness]

In answer to your question lbjnltx, yes this is the first I have heard of any of these accusations and she told her sister that she has been getting these free sessions for 9 weeks.  She also said that she has done a ton of research about BPD and she now knows more than most counselors.  She said there is only one psychologist in here area (a city of at least 2 million people) that could work with her and she is 100 percent sure they could make a difference in her life.  I think all this research and working with interns has made her much worse than ever!