This weekends dramas

[Parents! Get help here!]

My undiagnosed daughter 23 has to move out in a week and I think her behavior is really ramping up. 

I was taking care of GS3 for the night and at 6.30am on Sat morning she calls.  I dread those calls as I know it will be her and she'll be distraught. Yes it was her! "Mum I've lost my phone, I can't get home, everyone is being mean to me, they've taken my phone".  She is crying and beside herself.  "L (her friend) can't drop me because he hasn't got a licence."  I say I'll pick her up but not until 7.30 because my grandson is still asleep.  "I'll start walking then!" (sure you will I think to myself).  I drive to her friends house and don't see her on the way.  I get there and find her phone outside on the ground.  One small mercy.

When I get home 40 minutes later she attacks me, yelling and crying at the same time. "Mum I couldn't get hold of you, your stupid cell phone wasn't working".  She is honestly like a 3 year old having a tantrum.  She had gotten a ride home with friend in a taxi.  No doubt hassling him to the point of feeling he had to do something.  This behavior goes on!  She is also quite mean to her friend who got her the taxi as well in my opinion.  She wants to use my car to look at flats but hasn't got a license.  When I say No I'm abused.  Later, when her friend has gone she comes and tells me how hurt she feels that I've said her behavior is affecting her son (gs3) and that it makes her feel like the worst mother in the world.  I tell her that I know she loves and cares for him and can be loving and caring but when she is like this it will be affecting him.  She tells me she just feels like going out to the garage and hanging herself.  I check the garage for ropes. 

She came home early last night (Sat) and went straight to bed - so hopefully things will be calmer after a good night sleep.  The partying drugs and alcohol seem to wreak havoc on her well-being. 

In the meantime I stand firm in my decision that she move out on the 6th May. I'm not sure how to help her prepare as she won't communicate with me about it.

[nickyg]

My undiagnosed daughter 23 has to move out in a week and I think her behavior is really ramping up. 

I was taking care of GS3 for the night and at 6.30am on Sat morning she calls.  I dread those calls as I know it will be her and she'll be distraught. Yes it was her! "Mum I've lost my phone, I can't get home, everyone is being mean to me, they've taken my phone".  She is crying and beside herself.  "L (her friend) can't drop me because he hasn't got a licence."  I say I'll pick her up but not until 7.30 because my grandson is still asleep.  "I'll start walking then!" (sure you will I think to myself).  I drive to her friends house and don't see her on the way.  I get there and find her phone outside on the ground.  One small mercy.

When I get home 40 minutes later she attacks me, yelling and crying at the same time. "Mum I couldn't get hold of you, your stupid cell phone wasn't working".  She is honestly like a 3 year old having a tantrum.  She had gotten a ride home with friend in a taxi.  No doubt hassling him to the point of feeling he had to do something.  This behavior goes on!  She is also quite mean to her friend who got her the taxi as well in my opinion.  She wants to use my car to look at flats but hasn't got a license.  When I say No I'm abused.  Later, when her friend has gone she comes and tells me how hurt she feels that I've said her behavior is affecting her son (gs3) and that it makes her feel like the worst mother in the world.  I tell her that I know she loves and cares for him and can be loving and caring but when she is like this it will be affecting him.  She tells me she just feels like going out to the garage and hanging herself.  I check the garage for ropes. 

She came home early last night (Sat) and went straight to bed - so hopefully things will be calmer after a good night sleep.  The partying drugs and alcohol seem to wreak havoc on her well-being. 

In the meantime I stand firm in my decision that she move out on the 6th May. I'm not sure how to help her prepare as she won't communicate with me about it.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

nickyg,

just want to support you in these hard days.   

You are probably right, that the pressure of moving out is making your daughter act out and more needy at the same time.

Have you checked out the book "I don't have to make everything all better" by G. Lundberg? I can see you are already using your validating skills, and this book has a lot of practical suggestions on how to become even better at it.

[qcarolr]

nickyg - I feel so much compassion for you. This is one of the hardest things I have had to do - not let my DD live in our home. And she was also 23 that first time. She had nowhere to go -- she was homeless. And though she still gets angry at me about 'doing this to her', she survived and learned she can take care of herself.

My DD did not want to go, still does not want to go as there is not anyplace to go. She has no money, has real learning issues that make working without some kind of direct support or coaching nearly impossible.Yet, we cannot tolerate the impacts of her actions on our gd7. And it is still hard to ask her to leave now -- she refuses to go. The best I get is setting firm boundaries about when and how I am available to help her. And she spends most weekends (3-4 days) out with her friends.

So what is your plan if your dd23 does not leave voluntarily? Does she have a job - a way to pay for living on her own? The skills to live on her own?

What if she refuses to discuss plans for care of her son? What if she leaves him with you and walks away - then what? Does she have any friends or other family where she can live, even temporarily? What level of long term care are you willing to give your gs? What are the laws in your area about grandparents caring for gkids? Can you ask your local social services agency? Can you consult a good family lawyer with experience with non-parents (guardianship, visitation, legal custody... .  )

The pain of my DD's belief she is a 'good mom' to her little girl when she is so often not here for her physically or emotionally. And I am trying to get it across to her that the emotional damage is just a real from the yelling, name calling, lack of consistent attention to gd's needs. I can see gd separating from her mom after the increased level of anguish that DD spreads each week in our home.  It sounds like this is a similar pattern in your home.

A couple of boundaries that helped me:

 I value being treated with respect - any yelling, bad language, name calling, etc. and I tell I am hanging up my phone for ------(you fill in the minutes/hours) so we can both cool down. Then hang up, turn it off for set time, turn it back on and WAIT FOR HER TO CALL YOU.  Often, like in this instance, she finds her own solution even as you are rushing out to rescue her.

Respect you time and the needs of yourself and your gs. These have to come first -- and this is so very hard to do so often. If DD needs a ride - tell her when you will be available and then stick to that. Remind her she is able to find a solution and she can call you back at the time you are available.  My DD does not like this, and still argues with me about it, and I still turn off my phone, and I have been doing this consistently for 4 years now. I have set this boundary to take care of myself -- DD is still DD. She refuses to get any kind of treatment or therapy to manage herself in new ways -- so she is going to keep using the same old ways.

I know how hard it is to hear and believe, but taking care of ourselves -- respecting and protecting our values -- is the start toward managing the nightmare of loving a child with BPD. Esp. one that is chronologically an adult, yet emotionally is stuck at 13-15 age. Especially when under any kind of stress.

Sorry this got so long. The books that have helped me the most:

"Overcoming BPD" by Valarie Porr

"The Essential Family Guide to BPD" Randi Kreger

"I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" by Lunberg

These all support figuring out values-based boundaries, learning to communicate using validation, and ways to take care of ourselves.

Keep posting - we care.

qcr  

[nickyg]

thanks for your replies.  I'll definitely check out those books.  I have one on order; "Walking on eggshells".  Do you know if it's good?

Amazingly we were able to speak in a civil fashion this morning and discuss her moving in with my brother.  She even listened to me when I said some of the things that seem like disasters can sometimes be blessings i.e. losing your car & license means you won't kill anyone through drunken driving. We discussed my having GS3 for 2 nights each week but havn't tackled anything like custody.  The father is also involved in the care of GS3.  It is hard to tell how capable he is of any consistent care but my GS really loves going to him and talks about him all of the time.

We have an organisation called Child Youth and Family here which are like the childrens police. I could probably apply for custody through them.  I'm thinking I will talk to them on Monday and see what they think.

The weird thing with me (and I'm probably not alone) is that as soon as she behaves a bit better I'm so grateful I soften up my boundaries and do things like let her use my car which I've done today so she can go flat hunting. This is so not a good idea!  I think it's the FOG that does this and I can so easily forget the behavior, it's like some sort of amnesia. 

She is not working but on a benefit that they give to single parents in NZ.  It is not heaps but enough to cover accomodation, power etc... .  just the basics.  She seems to spend it on things like fake tan and make up!  She also has a lot of debt.  I'm not sure how she thinks she can afford to rent her own place and pay off the debt but I'm trying to stay out of that.

Her goal starting July is to start Unitec (a foundation nursing course).  She says that everything will fall into place once she starts this.  I live in hope!  Who knows, maybe they will? She to has learning difficulties and needs to have quite a lot of support with her learning though I believe she's bright it's just the writing she finds hard.

 

[qcarolr]

Nickyg

Walking on eggshells is good learning about BPD. "The Famiiy Guide to BPD" is by the same author and has much more focus on parent/child relationships and tools for setting boundaries and care for yourself and others in family. "Overcoming BPD is the most current and incorporates the interpersonal neuroscience that is so important in understanding BPD's biological aspects. This helped my FOG so much.

I too shift into 'normal' mode so easily when things are good. Get my expectations turned on again -- then reality hits when the next stress hits for DD - rejection, inability to do the work to accomplish a goal, blaming others instead of problem solving... .  I am working on remember the cycling nature of BPD. Keeps my baseline expectations and emotional level more stable.  Have to remember that age of my BPDchild is outweighed her emotional age when she is stressed -- 13-15 mostly.

The best place for our gkids, IMHO, is with their parents with lots of contact with other caring adults. If there is neglect, then it may be needed to step in. It is great that your gs enjoys his time with his dad. And your request for 2 nights a week is really valuable for gs's continuity as his mom is going through lots of changes in her life.

The boundaries you have set around her finances, debts, and goals with work and school seem really sound. It is so important to let our kids experience and take responsibility for these grown-up choices and the results. This is where validation skills really work best for me. That is in the books "Overcoming BPD" and "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better". This second book is not about BPD and is the best guide book I have found on practical process of learning and using validation.

Hope is always there - though sometimes goes underground for me. Keep up the great job you are doing.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

Hi nickyg,

actually, did you mean "stop walking on eggshells" by Randi Kreger, otherwise also known as "SWOE", or "walking on eggshells" by Jane Isay?

(I have recently seen the book by Jane Isay, the cover is light blue and it is NOT the book we all talk about here (I haven't read it yet, but planning to check it out to find out what it is about)

Anyway, the book people talk about here is the one from Randi Kreger. It is a really good starter book to find out what BPD is all about. The Essential Family Guide to BPD that qcr is talking about is REALLY good too. Randi Kreger says that it is "everything I learned since I wrote the Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it is true, it has a lot of additional stuff in it.

If you are still waiting for the book to arrive, here is a youtube video, that might give you an idea about it:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_eYftuv0k

To the list of the three books that qcr gave, I would also add "Boundaries" by Townsend & Cloud. It is a great bookend so to speak, to the Lundberg book.

All the best!

[portion]

hi Im in NZ nice to hear stories close to home. Oh the needing a ride drama is one I know well. the best thing that happened to us was my car having mechanical probs at a time i have no spare cash to deal with it so she busses or stays over! the other night the texts went I want to stay longer so the last bus will have gone... . can you come get me later... . reminded about car she suggested a number of people I should borrow a car from to pick her up... . as i continued to refuse she said "fine i'll walk home" (2am). instead of getting hooked as usual... . its not safe. please dont, etc i just ignored that text altogether. next text was "fine I'll stay the night here" I have so often got out of bed and gone to pick her up from places because I want her to be safe and to be honest i want the peace but it sure left me feeling resentful... . I hope i have learnt this lesson

[vivekananda]

Hullo Kiwis   I'm just over the ditch   

nickyg the advice and the resources you have been given are all good. Of the books you don't have, I would seriously get into them and I would prioretise them.

For you, since you will be reading an 'eggshells' book which is about BPD in general, I would read 1. "I don't have to make everything all better" by G & J Lundsberg.  This is about validation, not about BPD. The next book I would get is 2. "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend. This is also not about BPD. You would be best off ordering them online through 'Book Depository' or something like that (google it), unless you can get an interlibrary loan. I would want to get my own copies though.

On the site here there is much you can learn about BPD and boundaries and validation. I would strongly recommend that you dedicate some serious time to this, it will bring you rewards, trust me - I'm an Aussie 

If you want a break from reading, there are UTube clips that can help. Here is one on validation - but this is not entertainment, you will need a pen and paper to takes notes if you want to get the best from it.

Understanding Validation in Families - Alan E. Fruzzetti, PhD

Nickyg, when I first joined this place here, I was a confused mess I think, for me it was a steep learning curve that I needed to go through in order to understand. I believe that understanding helps us make better choices. We are here for you, ready and willing to support you and where relevant, to offer you suggestions on how to develop a better relationship with your dd ... . and your gs.

Cheers,

Vivek