Anyone working on it with young children?

[momtara]

Just curious if you are doing it and how that's going.  I don't know if it's healthy to work on it while children are in the house or not.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[zaqsert]

Hi momtara,

Just checking... .  by "working on it" I assume you mean working on our relationship with our pwBPD, right?

I have a D2 at home.  I've chosen to stay, at least for now, so that I can be sure to be around during my daughter's first years.  Not only do I want to be in her life but also my T pointed out that the first 3-5 years can play a significant role in whether the child will develop BPD themselves.  If we ever were to divorce, I would want as much custody as I can possibly get, but I worry about not knowing the outcome.

Before I knew about BPD, I did what I could to work on our relationship, most of it with a marital T.  I felt it would be best for us and for our daughter.  Now that I know quite a bit more about BPD, I feel that the tools can help create a better environment for all of us, especially for my daughter, and can start setting a good example for my daughter.  Several people here have offered excellent advice on how to go about this.  Also, knowing about BPD and how a BPD environment can contribute to BPD in children as they grow up, it makes it even more important for me to work on it.  Besides, some of the emotional abuse that my wife had started with our daughter really pissed me off.  I think this is what pushed me over the edge.

So I feel that it is healthier to work on it as early as possible.

[momtara]

Thanks.  In my case, my husband has BPD and we're going through a divorce but every once in a while I wonder if it's possible to work on it.  We have two very young kids.  The problem is, he already is showing signs that he might alienate them, and worse.   I wonder from time to time if it could work out.  I am just curious if it is going ok for some.  Good luck in your situation. 

I think if you're a dad it may be worth it to stay so you can be around your daughter as much as possible. 

[iluminati]

I'm staying with my D3 for now.  Working on it... .  eh, I'd rather not go into detail about my finances.  The good news is that things are looking up for me.  In terms of my daughter, I focus my energies on her, and let my BPDw do what she does.  As long as my daughter is safe and loved, it's all good.  It sucks that my BPDw can't do more, but I've mourned that loss and moved on.

[zaqsert]

In my case, my husband has BPD and we're going through a divorce but every once in a while I wonder if it's possible to work on it.

I almost feel like my case is the exact opposite in that I am staying, but when my uBPDw dysregulates then sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to divorce.

Good luck in your situation. 

Thanks!  Good luck to you too!

The good news is that things are looking up for me.  In terms of my daughter, I focus my energies on her, and let my BPDw do what she does.  As long as my daughter is safe and loved, it's all good.  It sucks that my BPDw can't do more, but I've mourned that loss and moved on.

That's great to hear for your and your daughter!  I'm still working on mourning that loss.

[Blazing Star]

Yes I am working on it with a D4 and a D8months. It is hard! And he is in T, and doing his own work, but we are up and down, seem to cycle from 'really good and happy and what BPD?' to 'oh yes, that BPD, here we go again'.

He hasn't been physically aggressive in 2 years now, and is getting better at regulating the verbal and emotional aggression. However when the BPD stuff comes back I do wonder what life without him would be like.

For now I am committed to staying. The kids are young, it is important for me to be with them full time (I only work parttime), and financially it would be incredibly hard without him (not eligible for govt assistance where I live as I am not a citizen). So I am working on myself, and on being the best for my girls, and doing what I can to maintain the relationship.

It is hard though. I think for some of us, where we are not at an extreme end of the BPD scale we might always wonder about the grass on the other side, staying or leaving... .  

Love Blazing Star

[shammick]

Hi,

Thanks for the thread, momtara. This is something near and dear to me. I have two sons 5 and 1.5. Have been with my uBPDw for over a decade. Things got much more difficult after the children were born, as now they are invovled in the emotional manipulation and abuse and are not able to draw boundaries/protect themselves. When this would happen this triggered me into protective mode for them (my eldest especially) which often exacerbated the conflicts because she felt I was trying to take him away from her or drive a wedge between them. I was so torn, how can I protect my children while at the same time love my wife? She would pit him against me so many times, tell him lies about me when she was upset with me, keep me away from him, not give me access to him by being away from home and not telling me where they were on my days off work or when I had time to spend with them. It was so heartbreaking. During one of her rages, my son was 3 then, he decided that he wanted Daddy to drive him to  preschool that day because he was genuinely scared of mommy's raging, and she said to him, "You're not my son, I don't love you. Go with your daddy then. Don't ever come to me again." I saw his face at those comments, he was so crushed by them. He started to cry, and when I was alone with him I had to try and console him by telling him mommy didn't mean to say those things. And so I've done this kind of thing for my son countless times over the last few years.

I seriously considered divorce a few years ago because of my children. I thought, perhaps if were are apart, then at least when he is with me, he will get time when there is complete peace and he can re-normalize and I can help him deal with things and piece his life back together. In the end I decided to stay, because I wanted it to be able to work with my wife, and also thought that the best chance for my children would be for them to have a mother who is healed from such things, as well as a father who is present and cares for them. If I had gone the divorce route, who knows how much influence I would have been permitted to have with them.

This has been the right decision I think. It has been hard, so heartbreakingly hard sometimes. And I know that my eldest son will grow up with baggage. He is quite insecure and has a low self-esteem, for instance, even though naturally he is quite outgoing. Our conflicts must have contributed to this. But I don't think there could have been an easier way. Working on it when they are in the house, is better than not working on it at all, and perhaps better than not being there for the children when they are alone with the pwBPD, ie letting them work on it themselves without being there to support.

[Rainyren]

Thank you for your question as i am driving myself crazy trying to figure out  a way to stay in the relationship! My BPD boyfriend is out of control right now. The fit has been going on for almost 1 month.  I am afraid that if i stay my son will grow up like him or thinking its ok to say hurtful things. But if i leave and he is alone with him, will our son because the target? How do you guys see and handle this with kids?

My son is only 11 months... .     

I did kick him out tho, once his EI comes in. (he got laid off) but i dont think he took it seriously. or he did and thats why he is so out of control .

Help!

[momtara]

I think it is harder for those of you, especially dads, who know that you would not get the majority of custody.  Thus, it's sometimes better (for now) to stay in the home and protect your kids.

In my case, my husband was raging and when I stood up to it, he called the police and claimed I had hit our son.  Luckily CPS wasn't called, but what about next time?  He is very manipulative.

But now he is begging to come back home.  A very small part of me thinks maybe I could make a bunch of demands on him and let him back in. Yet, the other part of me knows that once I let him back in, I'm in danger of being in a vulnerable position again where he has equal parenting rights and can pretty much do or make up anything regarding the kids.  I would be living life always afraid and walking on eggshells.

For those dreaming about the grass being greener - no, it's hard going through a divorce.  It's hard not having another adult who puts you first (or at least, is supposed to).  Still, I love being with my babies and taking care of them without someone dragging me down... .    And I didn't realize how much I looked over my shoulder until hubby was out of the house.  I will have to give him at least a little custody, and yes, that is hard.

SO I wanted to hear opinons on people working on it with young kids in the house and whether it is possible to do it.  Most of the replies are from men, which is a different situation than if your husband is the one causing the problems, I think.  There are similarities, but BPD men and BPD women seem to have different sets of issues and challenges.  But I want to hear from anyone.

Anyone else working on it with small kids (or giving up on it), I want to hear your story!

[allibaba]

I have a 14 month old son and I am working on it in the house.  My husband would never call the police and tell them that I did something that I didn't do.  That is awful.  I can't imagine dealing with something like that.

So I am not so good at boundaries and my husband is the way he is today because I have let him get there.  Always making excuses for his behavior as he got worse and worse and worse.  One thing that I am learning is that if you let them cross boundaries they will just keep pushing that boundary until they hit a wall.  I worry that if I don't get my better with boundaries than my husband could hurt me one day.  I don't believe that he would mean to... .  but he has a hell of a temper.

I have stayed because I believe that my son is better off with his father than me trying to raise him alone.  Financially I support us... .  I have the freedom at least.  Despite my husbands negatives, he is a good man and one hell of a good father.  My complaint is how he treats me... .  terribly.  I worry about the impact that it will have on my son. 

[momtara]

Yeah, I always said that I would say if the verbal abuse was just against me.  But the situation was affecting the kids.

I think your hubby might stop if you threatened to leave - unfortunately, many of us don't want to go that far.  I sure didn't.  It took something major happening (him calling the police, etc... .  ) otherwise I might still be putting up with it today.  His rages would last a few days and then we'd get a few weeks of peace, although I was ALWAYS tiptoeing around, worrying what he thought about every word I said. 

You don't want your son to grow up believing it's ok to treat you the way your husband does, so at some point, maybe you will have to write him an email demanding changes, or something else.  But I know how you feel... .  leaving is extreme, and yet, by staying, it's hard to stop the behavior. Leaving also would mean giving up some of the custody of your son, and that's a scary prospect too. 

[momtara]

Oh, I had a thought.  if you work a lot and your husband is home with your boy, then he might have a better chance of getting custody than you do, if you ever got divorced.  So keep that in mind if things ever get bad.  Courts care if the verbal abuse is against your son, not so much if it's just against you. 

[allibaba]

Momtara

Thanks for all your thoughts.  My husband wouldn't take custody of my son and I would never withhold our son from him.  I guess every BPD is different and this is one thing that I know.  Parenting is the one thing that we rarely fight about.  My husband and I are almost completely on the same page regarding how our son should be raised.  My husband says all the time that I allow him to be a good dad because I provide stability when my husband loses it.  He thinks that I am a really good mother (weird since he criticizes everything else).

I do need to change things at my house.  Things have gotten really extreme for me and its bad for all of us.  I don't plan on threatening to leave but I do need to establish firm boundaries and make my husband stick to them.  I believe that I don't have to be a victim in this situation.  The other thing is that in my heart of hearts I trust my husband.  I know that both of us (me and our son) are the most important things in the world to him.  He knows that he has issues and he is hurting very badly inside and he knows that he needs to get into therapy.  I've identified a good therapist who specializes in BPD and my husband has agreed to go to him... .  its just a matter of getting him there.

We don't get a few weeks of peace.  My husband melts down about once a week.  Its really, really hard. 

[Rainyren]

Yeah i've threaten to leave. Horrible idea! Now i understand why. He tries harder to break me so he can control me and get to stay. Does that make sense?  Anyways anything and everything sets him off .


Last night we texting me all the same stuff, i make everything up He never insults me i twist words etc etc. So I told him, I have the insults on text! wanna see them? At that point he said knock your self out! I really think he believed I wouldn't find any. But of course I found a bunch and he could no longer deny it. Victory! small lived tho. He said oh that well yeah ive insulted you today you say like its all the time, Anyways you don't make sense f**k this leave me alone.  I really felt like a champion! I thanked him for admitting to it, and told him i hoped it will help him understand me a bit more.  Then he just stopped texting me and asked " please stop i cant handle this " Now i feel horrible for playing on his emotions like he did to me so many times. sigh.

When i got home from work this morning he was still in a bad mood, mutering to himself so Here i am walking on egg shells ignoring him and just hanging out with my son. Pointing out to him aww look baby did this so cute. etc etc. I think it really help for some reason. Because When i went to bed , he walked in the room 3 times to ask me stuff like what to do for supper etc etc. but he was really soft and nice and gentle. I think he was trying to reach out to me and even tho i work nights and really need my sleep, I welcomed this and spoke very nice and gentle to him. Now he is A1 !

Of course now I miss him and remember all the good things and leaving him seems so mean. 

Wow im rambling all this for a questions:  are you afraid to take away custody from spouse? Im afraid that it will be to much for him to handle. It happened to him before and I always told him from the start I would never keep his son away from him. (before i knew how he was)

And also, what kind of boundaries you guys use? a while back I told him that when he feels like rage is building up i would tell him to go for a smoke. and he agreed. He trusted my judgement.  But it never worked when the time came. Now im the one who go for a smoke and tell him to leave me alone until he calms down. Does not always work... .

PS. so happy i found this site! xoxo

[yeeter]

I think children need a calm and safe environment to live in.  First and foremost.  Which also means no conflict between mom and dad (verbal or physical or psychological even).

So if 'working on it' isn't done in a way that clears the conflict, you are better off separating.  Yes you will have different views of the world, and the kids will get different stories from each. And alienation is real.

But at least there won't be constant conflict and stress.

If you can figure out how to stay without conflict, then I believe it's in the chlidrens best interest to do so.  IF

This is a similar view from the CPS people I talked to.

[allibaba]

I had an incident at home last night.  We had my husband's father who all of us are close to staying with us for two weeks.  My husband got home from work and start complaining about his day and blaming me.  His father basically told him that he needed to grow up and take responsibility for his life and blaming everyone and everything.  My husband threw his dinner and stormed out.

He sent me a message saying:

"I'll get a place for a while."

I responded "If that is what you need to do - then ok.  Its obviously not want I want."

He sent me the following this morning "Its best for all involved.  That way maybe I can learn how to live again.  Doing the same thing getting the same results is only harmful to our son and everyone else.  I have had enough of living and feeling like this as I am sure you are. Will come home later and I will sort something out asap.  And by the way, I wasn't seeking your approval."

I responded that "Living this way isn't good.  Its taking its toll on us."

He seems sensible at the moment.  Wonder how long it will take before he turns on me.  I took his dad to the airport this morning and he said that he doesn't want anything to do with his son until he agrees to therapy.  So after all that I said yesterday... .  I may be raising my son on my own

[Not normal]

Thank you for this post. Reading it brings comfort. I wonder finances and custody aside, is divorce the only way out ?

Husband wuBPD , s3

[waverider]

If you do separate, even if time with BPD parent is dysfunctional they will also spent time with a functional parent so they will see it for what it is. If you stay they will know nothing but dysfunctional parenting and so are unlikely to learn any better.

It is possible to manage a RS so that even though it may be "odd" it is not totally unhealthy for the kids. It is not easy and not guaranteed, but worth trying first.

[allibaba]

For the first time I have told my husband that if he doesn't get help then we need to separate... .    he told me to GO AWAY and stop sending him messages.  If nothing ever changes, things don't only stay the same... .  they get worse.  I am now in for a wild ride... .  but my husband needs consequences and boundaries and we have gotten to the point where he is quite bad. 

[momtara]

It is possible to have a separation without divorce.  I'll respond to some of these messages later - have to work on my divorce more right now.    As much as I hate it.

Question for many of you:  If your spouse had done what my hubby did (took our son to the hosp, falsely claiming I hit him)... .  would you ever trust him again?

He has since (after lots of counseling and my filing for divorce) said he imagined it.  If we ever got back together, I'd make him write something and sign it, saying what happened.  But still, I don't know if this would protect me some day in the future.

The problem is, I think some of these things really are beyond their control, even if it starts out as a lie or something meant to get revenge during an argument.  As some have said, the BPD person's mind convinces them that their lie is true.  At least for a while.

It's so sad.

[allibaba]

I couldn't trust him again.  He has brought in outside authorities and claimed something bad happened that did not.  For me, my boundary is that I can handle getting called names, being embarrassed, and lied to, but when something threatens us from the outside... .  all bets are off. 

Everyone is different though.

[allibaba]

And momtara... .  normally when my husband gets mad he YELLS that he wants a divorce. 

This time is different.  He says that he thinks that he needs to move out FOR A WHILE and that maybe he can learn how to live again.  I welcome that!  I think that that is what he needs!  I think that is what we need!  Just waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I've been through this dance too many times.

[waverider]

It is possible to have a separation without divorce.  I'll respond to some of these messages later - have to work on my divorce more right now.    As much as I hate it.

Question for many of you:  If your spouse had done what my hubby did (took our son to the hosp, falsely claiming I hit him)... .  would you ever trust him again?

He has since (after lots of counseling and my filing for divorce) said he imagined it.  If we ever got back together, I'd make him write something and sign it, saying what happened.  But still, I don't know if this would protect me some day in the future.

The problem is, I think some of these things really are beyond their control, even if it starts out as a lie or something meant to get revenge during an argument.  As some have said, the BPD person's mind convinces them that their lie is true.  At least for a while.

It's so sad.

Often the initial issue is just a lash out impulsiveness, the more you fight against it, the more they need to back it up and it escalates to the point they have become entrenched in their point of view.

I can never truly trust my partner when it clashes with her neediness, or when under pressure, this is something I have come to accept.

How much you can accept is up to you, many of the things you learn here are about protecting you and teaching you to accommodate more, rather than fix the problem

[LilMe]

All our situations are different.  I wish there were easy answers for us all!  I am a woman and feel I must stay for the sake of my 4 and 5 year olds.  He has promised/threatened that he will take them from me if I try to leave and he will.  He is smart and has money.  I already went to court against my ex who had money and UBPD and it was horrible.  He had a team of lawyers against my $1500 lawyer who just sat there and didn't really do anything.  Best I can do is try to keep the peace and give the children the best life I can.  Yes, there are problems.  But this is just how it has to be.  Now if I can just survive!  It sure is hard.  Thanks all of you for being here.

[waverider]

All our situations are different.  I wish there were easy answers for us all!  I am a woman and feel I must stay for the sake of my 4 and 5 year olds.  He has promised/threatened that he will take them from me if I try to leave and he will.  He is smart and has money.  I already went to court against my ex who had money and UBPD and it was horrible.  He had a team of lawyers against my $1500 lawyer who just sat there and didn't really do anything.  Best I can do is try to keep the peace and give the children the best life I can.  Yes, there are problems.  But this is just how it has to be.  Now if I can just survive!  It sure is hard.  Thanks all of you for being here.

If you are committed to staying then this board and all its resources is a lifeline to your sanity. It is easier to work through these issues if you are committed for whatever reason, as it is not easy. if you are undecided then often the level of determination is not high enough to be effective

Good luck, use this resource.

[momtara]

Sorry to hear that, Lilme.  My kids are close in age too.  I could put up with verbal abuse, even manipulation (and I have)... .  but lying about the kids was the straw that broke the camel's back.  He also escalates if I don't let him get his way, and threatens our stability by saying the kids should switch caregivers, and stuff.  I am just tired of it.  He is finally committed to change, but now that he's out of the house, I am in a good position regarding custody and it's hard to give that up.

[momtara]

I think someone asked me how I got my husb out of the house, but I don't know which thread it was on.  I got a restraining order because he was raging at me all night and would not let me sleep, followed me around for hours, etc.  In my state there doesn't have to be physical contact.  But I felt bad about it and had to follow up with lawyers.  It was the right thing to do at the time - stuff was escalating way too much and something had to happen.  But I still go back and forth on the divorce.  It's just that I feel so much better with him out of the house.  Then again, what about when he's not in my life at all?  I am wondering if I'll be lonely.  At least now, we still talk.  I think I am being a wimp.

[sleeplost]

Hi,

Yes, I am working on it (for now) with three small children (5, 3, 1.5) and little family support due to distance. My husband is uBPD - his mental health team have tossed the the term about and more I read the more I suspect that BPD is part of it. He has been high functioning for most of his life - successful in career and our marriage has been okay until things changed a little over a year ago. He bit our 4 month old daughter on the leg and CPS was involved (rightly so). As a result he had to go to counseling - he was terrified about exposing what he sees as his rotten core. Fast forward to now - he is not working, self-harming, fantasizing about suicide, and interacting very little with the kids. He sees my leaving him as inevitable. Yesterday he was kicked out of his CBT group (he attended only once) because his contributions were too disturbing. I have reached out to family counseling and found a therapist who will talk to me and to my oldest child. Looking back now I realize that I have been very careful around him for a long time as he often loses his temper and is seldom emotionally present otherwise. Now he is not angry (meds?), but he does have severe episodes of distress that result in self-harm. He tells me his is not suicidal but that he wants to kill himself for a short while. I have frequent conversations with his therapist about suicide risk (my greatest fear at this stage). I am holding it together so far and the kids are okay - but all of my extended family who are currently living with us go back home in three weeks and I will be faced with dealing with him on my own again and caring for my children. I have been contemplating taking the kids back to our hometown on the other side of the country for a few months where we will have more support. I cannot decide whether it is more harmful to see their Daddy like this or to see him not at all but have the love and support from extended family.

[momtara]

Hi Sleeplost.  I am so sorry this is happening to you.  It sounds like you both held it together for a long time and there were things stirring beneath the surface.  I wonder what he said at his CBT group that was so disturbing.  It is worthwhile to try to work on it, but if you get to a point when it's bigger than you, there is only so much you can do.  I still go back and forth on my divorce, so it's not a perfect solution.  People have been helped by medication and therapy, including someone high functioning like your husband, but it takes time.  The suicide threats are emotional blackmail, but of course you still have to take them seriously.  Hang in there.  Please keep me updated.  My husband is high-functioning too so I understand how you feel... .  

[smiley gladhands]

i am trying my best, we have a 2 (almost 3) year old and a 9 month old (both girls).

Every once in a while we'll have some time of peace, but i know that a rage is just a moment away. I worry about the example my uPBD wife sets for my children... .  daycare has told me our child is extremely bright, but she struggles in controlling her emotions. I'm staying in this because so many times dad gets the short end of the stick, and i need to ensure my kids don't grow up to be like her. I'd be miserable only seeing them on a limited basis.

I try hard to keep the peace as much as possible... .  sometimes in my weaker moments i just cant take the nonsense and snap back at her. I've already "turned the page" with respect to seeking love and friendship from her. I've accepted that nothing i ever do will be good enough, so i dont beat myself up over never-ending criticism anymore. If I can keep the peace, and raise happy/healthy kids, that will be good enough for me. Once my kids are grown, i will no longer stay with her, that much I know. I've also been keeping a journal of activities I do with my kids, and when i know a rage is coming, i start recording the audio on my iphone too. I'd highly recommend that anyone who is going to be living long term with one of these people do steps to protect yourself in the event they try to pull things. They are liars and have no shame in making things up.