"I'm not mad" or "I didn't yell" or "I don't remember that"

[mrshyde]

Can someone explain why my husband says these things and how they fit with BPD? I perceive him as angry often, so do the kids ("Why is he so mean?" but he claims that is is not angry all of the time, when I accuse him of yelling he says he wasn't, and when I bring up a situation that was hurtful he says he does not remember it.

[maryy16]

I truly believe that they just don't get it... .  meaning that they just don't get how badly they act.  What we perceive as "mad" or "yelling" doesn't register as that to them.  To them it's just normal, everyday interaction. They have never learned any other way to act or to respond to problems.

I have no answers as to why, but I know my H would always feel justified in his actions, so he doesn't see them as "bad behavior". 

And my H generally has a bad memory (names, dates, times, etc.), except for when he's raging and then I am reminded of every thing I've ever done.

[mrshyde]

My husband has a terrible memory too! He cant remember dates, names, sequence of events, etc. Add to that... .  he always thinks he's right, which makes it worse.

He also has a hard time remembering the kids schedules, where he needs to be when, and when he screws up I get blamed because, "you didn't remind me"

I think the memory must be BPD related... .  like whatever part of the brain is affected deals with memory too... .  

[bruceli]

My husband has a terrible memory too! He cant remember dates, names, sequence of events, etc. Add to that... .  he always thinks he's right, which makes it worse.

He also has a hard time remembering the kids schedules, where he needs to be when, and when he screws up I get blamed because, "you didn't remind me"

I think the memory must be BPD related... .  like whatever part of the brain is affected deals with memory too... .  

My BPDw has asked ME about 20 times when HER ex is going to trial which will affect both her and her son's life, but can remember a specific date for a party her co-workers have planned a month away.  I believe their memory is HIGHLY selective.  A steel trap... .  whenit's importatnt to them.

[No Black Tie Man]

I want to believe that they just dont understand how bad their behavior is, but my wife has alluded to the fact that she thinks that her behavior is justified and that we deserve it. That leaves me to think that this is just straight up abuse, whether they want to admit it or not.

[Newton]

For pwBPD... .  feelings=facts... .  

If they feel persecuted, attacked, under fire... .  etc, in a particular moment, their language, thoughts and beliefs will originate from those feelings... .  

It's difficult for us to appreciate this as we don't process information this way.

[slimmiller]

My husband has a terrible memory too! He cant remember dates, names, sequence of events, etc. Add to that... .  he always thinks he's right, which makes it worse.

He also has a hard time remembering the kids schedules, where he needs to be when, and when he screws up I get blamed because, "you didn't remind me"

I think the memory must be BPD related... .  like whatever part of the brain is affected deals with memory too... .  

My BPDw has asked ME about 20 times when HER ex is going to trial which will affect both her and her son's life, but can remember a specific date for a party her co-workers have planned a month away.  I believe their memory is HIGHLY selective.  A steel trap... .  whenit's importatnt to them.

This rings so true. Mine, even from the start could never rememeber our anniverseries, she would forget the day we met, our first date, the day we got married etc etc. But she has no problems remembering when she 'promised' to do something for her 'friend' (in reality its her bf, not friend). Its maddening but I dont think her mind works even remotely normal in that department.

She keeps all those promises but breaks at least a dozen promises to her own children in any given week. Guess she keeps the promises to those that she cant afford to lose but those that she knows wont leave her, are safe to abuse and lie to

[benny2]

 Mine can remember everything about me, old phone numbers, things we did years ago, but when it comes to things he has told me, no memory of it. I think they tend to pick and choose what they want to remember or what comes out of their mouth at times is just plain meaningless.

[jrx]

My exBPDgf never remembers her abusiveness. She often gets into her own head during those moments of anger. It's like demonic possession. Anytime she gets into her head, she has no memory of what transpired. Yelling, screaming, throwing things.

I specifically remember one time when she screamed at me so much and so long that I doubled over into a ball on the floor. Then she stood over me and screamed louder and louder until I mercifully almost passed out. To this day when I talk about it, she has no recall of this. It kind of sucks that the worst thing that's ever happened to me is something she can't remember and doesn't have the ability to apologize for.

[Newton]

jrandom ... .  you've touched on an important point with the sentence "gets into her own head"... .  

PwBPD, or mpd etc... .  will often enter a dissociated state when they are emotionally triggered.  This acting out is very scary for us to witness... .  and from my experience of ex's who have been triggered into this it is truly draining for them... .  they may feel relief afterwards and yet also utter exhaustion for days following an episode.

Members here will often comment that their SO's eyes would significantly change in appearance, their hair might stand straight as if affected by static, they may have abnormally excessive strength way beyond their norm.

It is convenient for people who often lie or deceive to have a "selective memory" in order to cover their tracks and deflect being exposed... .  but that is rather different from someone in a dissociative state... .  

I believe that when an SO reaches this level of their disorder (as you described in your awful ordeal) there is little to no chance of us "talking them down" or them "snapping out of it"... .  it's time for boundaries.

[LetItBe]

Members here will often comment that their SO's eyes would significantly change in appearance, their hair might stand straight as if affected by static

I have seen exactly this.  YIKES. 

[VeryFree]

My stbx only remembers things that profit her and her agenda.

If the memories aren't usefull she doesn't have them or she alters them.

[jrx]

Thanks Newton, spot on, she would be down for days after the dissociated state. At the time, I didn't even know what BPD was. I came to realize after the event that male weakness triggers her abandonment issues, and sends her into an even more violent panic attack.

Years after, I'll sometimes write the boundaries out so I can refer to what we agreed to. She won't remember or care and try to push through them. I'm not great with validation when she's trying to breach the perimeter. And I'm guessing that some of my ways of protecting my boundaries are somehow invalidating to her. (Logic is one. Evidently you can't logic out how people feel.) The number one source of conflict is boundaries, my patience wears thin when they're constantly tested. I'm wondering what (hopefully graceful) techniques others do to maintain them.

I'm sorry if the second part is off-topic for this thread. It's not my intention to hijack it and I can start another thread if needed.

[tuum est61]

Can someone explain why my husband says these things and how they fit with BPD? I perceive him as angry often, so do the kids ("Why is he so mean?" but he claims that is is not angry all of the time, when I accuse him of yelling he says he wasn't, and when I bring up a situation that was hurtful he says he does not remember it.

You've received a lengthy list of responses with similar stories and explanations why a pwBPD acts this way. 

These behaviours are very distressing.  What are some coping strategies? 

[mrshyde]

I would love to hear some... .  especially the "I'm not mad"  I point out the obvious... .  the raised voice, exasperated look. I just don't think that he is aware of his emotions.

[bruceli]

dBPDw is about to use on of those strategies this evening which is to go out and have some "girl time" which translates to go out and drink to self medicate and forget instead of learning how to cope in a healthier way.

[vboy]

Not only that, but they turn it around on you! I deal with this on a regular basis.

[bruceli]

Not only that, but they turn it around on you! I deal with this on a regular basis.

Hit it dead on VBOY... .  BPDw goes out with the girls so I go out and shop and have some dinner... .  Evidetally BIG MISTAKE... .  the classic, HOW DARE YOU... .  I can do it to you but HOW DARE YOU do it to me.  When I got home she told me to get out of the house and she slept on the couch.

[vboy]

I feel you Bruceli! What are we thinking?

[schwing]

Hi Mrshyde and 

Can someone explain why my husband says these things and how they fit with BPD? I perceive him as angry often, so do the kids ("Why is he so mean?" but he claims that is is not angry all of the time, when I accuse him of yelling he says he wasn't, and when I bring up a situation that was hurtful he says he does not remember it.

People with BPD (pwBPD) have a lot of things going on internally that they cannot or choose not to come to terms with.  One of their characteristics is an inability to regulate (or temper) their emotional stages.  So that when they feel happy, it feels like the happiest they've ever felt.  And when they feel angry, they can't ever recall being more angry. 

Not only are they unable to regulate their emotions, but they also exhibit "splitting" behavior, or "black & white" thinking.  In black and white thinking, someone is either idealized (e.g., you are perfect, you are s savior, you can do no wrong) or else are devalued (e.g., you are evil, you've always undermined me, you can do no right).  I think we're well aware of when they idealize and devalue us.  What I think most people don't realize is that I think they "split" themselves.  That is, they either idealize themselves or devalue themselves.

I think they prefer to idealize themselves because when they devalue themselves, they can be very very self-punishing to the point where suicidal ideation occurs.

So in a sense, your husband will say "I'm not mad" because he cannot tolerate the idea that sometimes he gets mad.  And he says "I didn't yell" because he cannot tolerate the idea that he yells.  Because if he accepted that he did either one of these negatively perceived activities, then he would begin to devalue himself (i.e., I'm a worthless human being, I don't deserve you, I hate myself, etc... . )

So how do they get rid of this psychological hot potato? They "project" onto us.  They're not mad, becomes we're the one who is mad.  They don't yell becomes we're the one who yells.  In some instances, they will provoke us to act out in the matter that they are trying to project onto us in an effort to realize their own self-delusion. 

All of these kinds of dysfunctional behavior is a variation on dissociation: they dissociate or "disconnect" these unacceptable feelings and behaviors from themselves, which brings me to "I don't remember that"... .  because not remembering is yet another example of disconnecting the memory of something they cannot handle.

My husband has a terrible memory too! He cant remember dates, names, sequence of events, etc. Add to that... .  he always thinks he's right, which makes it worse.

I would guess that he has not just a "terrible memory" but a terribly selective memory. 

He always thinks he's right because he *needs* to think he is right.  It is a kind of delusion I would say.

He also has a hard time remembering the kids schedules, where he needs to be when, and when he screws up I get blamed because, "you didn't remind me"

He will always blame someone else, because he projects these negative thoughts and feelings onto other people.

I think the memory must be BPD related... .  like whatever part of the brain is affected deals with memory too... .  

I think you are right.  His BPD very much affects his memory.

I would love to hear some... .  especially the "I'm not mad"  I point out the obvious... .  the raised voice, exasperated look. I just don't think that he is aware of his emotions.

Lack of awareness of his emotions is but the tip of the iceberg.

As for coping strategies, what I would suggest depends upon where one wishes to draw boundaries.  One truth is that when they are upset, they do not have a very good internal mechanism for dealing with their emotions; some might turn to drugs, alcohol, other self-gratification means of self-soothing.  But often they might also try to make us the "recipient" of these unregulated emotions and I would say an important coping strategy is to stop that from happening.

For example, if they are upset and angry (for something that is going on in their mind unrelated to what is going on with us now), I would say a major strategy is to walk away.  Tell them, I can see that you are angry and upset.  I don't like to talk to you when you are angry and upset, it makes me angry and upset.  And then go somewhere they cannot follow.

I have found that pwBPD often start fights out of nowhere just as a means of venting (as I see it).  This kind of behavior is not productive and I choose not to be a party to it.

Even if emotionally they are not, physically they are an adult.  And as an adult they need to find a way to manage their own emotions that does not require me to bear the brunt of their emotions.  And even if they do not learn a productive way to manage their own emotions, they can still learn that they cannot dump all over me.

Hope this helps.  Best wishes, Schwing

[tuum est61]

Not only that, but they turn it around on you! I deal with this on a regular basis.

Hit it dead on VBOY... .  BPDw goes out with the girls so I go out and shop and have some dinner... .  Evidetally BIG MISTAKE... .  the classic, HOW DARE YOU... .  I can do it to you but HOW DARE YOU do it to me.  When I got home she told me to get out of the house and she slept on the couch.

My wife of 7 years does the same/similar.   I am always looking for new ideas on how to cope with the double standards.  It would seem that brucelli, you maintained a boundary, didn't leave, and SHE slept on the couch. I have certainly maintained a boundary about sleeping in my bed - despite her accusations of my wrongdoing... .  

[momtara]

my husband said the first and the last thing a lot.  They don't remember things they did wrong, and sometimes even normal things.  It's part of the disorder (selective amnesia).  Sometimes they actually do remember but they need to manipulate the situation or save face.  It's hard to know what they'r[e doing on purpose and what's part of the disorder sometimes.

[bruceli]

my husband said the first and the last thing a lot.  They don't remember things they did wrong, and sometimes even normal things.  It's part of the disorder (selective amnesia).  Sometimes they actually do remember but they need to manipulate the situation or save face.  It's hard to know what they'r[e doing on purpose and what's part of the disorder sometimes.

Exactly... .  she's knows it's wrong and that she is avoiding issues and self medicating... .  said so her self.  Just so very hard for her to change habbits after 50 years and I understand that.

[pale-blue-eyes]

I can relate to everything in this thread, this is in fact the hardest thing for me to deal with. My UBPDH is always blaming everything on me, and I mean everything. It is a huge trigger for me, but in his mind he isn't blaming anything on me. THis is where many of our conflicts come from. If I try to bring it up and say I feel like I'm being blamed he immediately gets very upset and yells at me that I'm conceited and think the whole world revolves around me and everything is about me, etc. and he says it in this mocking voice like he is impersonating his mother (he was raised by his UBPD single mother so she is a huge trigger/factor for many issues) which really annoys me. Just today he realized that he forgot to pay a parking ticket (which I have been bringing up everyday for 2 weeks) so now he (we) have to go to court to resolve it because they issue a warrant for tickets that have not been paid in time. Well of course it's my fault it didn't get paid because I "didn't" remind him and it's going to be my fault if he gets arrested because I haven't taken him to the court house. Apparently he is incapable of taking himself to the court house, and he literally won't do it on his own. This is where my frustration lies, I feel like I'm a single mother raising a helpless child. Everything falls on me because if I don't do it, it won't get done. I'm new to BPD and trying to implement the techniques, but there is a lot of info and it has taken me some time, I hope the boundaries will help this.

I really do try and understand that his brain works differently than mine, and I really try to "put myself in his shoes" but it does get exhausting. Most of the time I just try to let things go, no sense in arguing with someone who is incapable of seeing the situation in a true light. I had to really sit myself down and allow myself to understand that he is very ill. It took me a long time to accept that, sometimes I still have a hard time with it. I just have to take things day by day, which is hard for me because I am a very global/long term type of thinker.  Anyway, it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this situation and that my feelings can be validated somewhere. 

[vboy]

Pale Blue Eyes,

You are not alone! We suffer the same like you. Their behaviour can be very damaging emotionally and financially. They can wreck homes, shatter dreams and it doesn't seem to bother them. They will not take responsibility or work on themselves as "you" are the problem. We work hard to keep the marriage together because if not for us the marriage would have over long ago. We hang in there for the children, for the times when they are sweet, kind and appreciative. We work the tool and we become better people ourselves. This we do have them to thank for. But in the end, we will make our choices from a healthy place and if we need to move on we will.

I am "staying for now" as ForeverDad mentioned to me in a post. Working the tools in that area and other workshops here. I am feeling more confident and ready to go in any direction. I know that it can be emotionally exhausting, that you feel sometimes you can't continue, you don't know what to do. Keep working the tools here and posting, you will see improvement in your own inner peace.

What ever direction you take know you are not alone!

[KellyO]

This amnesia-thing was one of the hardest part for me too.  I have just resently started to really realise the magnitude of this problem in our relationship:

We once tried to live together. It lasted little over 2 months, it was pure hell, torture and misery, and I did something I have never done before, I got suicidal. I was THAT depressed and exhausted of the emotional pressure I was facing every day. He threatened to leave from day one! My dream really turned in to nightmare. He disrespect me so much he begin to laugh at me when I cried for two days. It all ended by he dumping me, because he just couldn't face himself. Well, that was then, I have forgiven and studied my role in that dysfunctional hell and learned my lessons. Just resently I found out what his coping mechanism was: he has decided he was perfectly happy all the time, us living together was his dream come true and he was so happy happy happy when our names were in same door and he had a spouse. And then he blaims me for not telling me I was so unhappy! He had been living in a lie! I was not happy, and I did not tell him, it was ALL MY FAULT! This was the same man who had yelled me, called me names... .  he had remade everything in his mind to cover the ugly thruth: he is an abusive man. He can't face it, so he just wipes everything he does not want to face and tadaa! Problem solved. He dispises abusive men, and now I know he is one, and I think he has always been one. He does not want to be, but he has a dilemma to face: he wants to have control over his girl friends, and only way he can get it is by being abusive and manipulative. So he just erases everything that makes him seem abusive even in his own eyes. And then he is the poor victim of me, the cruel woman who lies.

This is maddening, and I don't know what to make out of it. Does he genuinely believe our living together was the happiest time in his life? Or does he just say so to make me feel bad and quilty?

[Buzz2406]

My BPD wife has just told me about my neighbour having a baby yesterday but when I questioned why she had purchased gifts for a baby today she insisted to the point of anger that she had informed me. I find it difficult to deal with this without resorting to old behaviours I.e. Trying to support my position.

[tuum est61]

My BPD wife has just told me about my neighbour having a baby yesterday but when I questioned why she had purchased gifts for a baby today she insisted to the point of anger that she had informed me. I find it difficult to deal with this without resorting to old behaviours I.e. Trying to support my position.

Validation is what you need to do - and then leave it.

"I can see that you are upset I didn't recall you telling me about the baby."

Note it kind of says you were wrong, yet it doesn't - you know the reason you didn't recall is because she didn't in fact tell you.

I guess you have to decide which hill to fight for/die on. You already understand that she has a faulty memory.  Arguing with her won't change that. There will be times you will need to set a boundaries regarding reality, but this isn't one of them.

It takes a while for you to start feeling good about changing your responses to her misinformed opinions, but it will happen.

[Black Pearl]

I am sitting here crying, I am not alone, my pwbPDw is frequently telling me that I am mad, and yelling. The passive aggressive manipulation gets me there but I did not start there often.

There is no calendar that will help her. Dates and times are all a jumble in her life and she sometimes can not remember to breathe. I have always attributed this to her "artistic" temperament.

I have found where I need to be.

[House of Mirrors]

Has anyone encountered the behaviour of after ranting at you they go into another room or stomp upstairs continuing their ranting? Usually really awful things that you CAN actually hear... .