Perfectionism

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

My BPD exgf had some hyper perfectionistic tendencies, but only in certain situations, such as at work.

During tax season, since all employees at her firm were required to work Saturdays, everyone would take turns bringing in different brunch foods. My ex was in charge of bringing in a fruit salad once. Rather than buy a fruit salad or make a simple one, she opted to carve out a watermelon into an elaborate bowl and really go for an elaborate presentation. I remember her worrying and stressing over this; not to mention waking up very early on Saturday morning to help her put everything together so that it would be as fresh as possible. At one point, something went wrong with the cutting of fruit and I thought she was going to snap - she looked positively maniacal. Thankfully, we managed to complete everything in the literal last minute.

I heard from her later in the day that nobody was touching her fruit salad and what a disaster it was - only to finally hear that everyone in the office thought it was so wonderful in its presentation that they were afraid to touch it. You'd think she would've been relieved and happy, but she wasn't. For whatever reason, she had to be THE BEST. I never quite got that, despite my own tendencies to want to "win" at times - I was never like that.

It was one of her many "quriks"; I'm curious if this is a common occurrence with pwBPD, but also what in their development would trigger it. It's not as if she was a perfectionist with every little facet of her life, only certain things. This never fully added up to me.

[lhd981]

My BPD exgf had some hyper perfectionistic tendencies, but only in certain situations, such as at work.

During tax season, since all employees at her firm were required to work Saturdays, everyone would take turns bringing in different brunch foods. My ex was in charge of bringing in a fruit salad once. Rather than buy a fruit salad or make a simple one, she opted to carve out a watermelon into an elaborate bowl and really go for an elaborate presentation. I remember her worrying and stressing over this; not to mention waking up very early on Saturday morning to help her put everything together so that it would be as fresh as possible. At one point, something went wrong with the cutting of fruit and I thought she was going to snap - she looked positively maniacal. Thankfully, we managed to complete everything in the literal last minute.

I heard from her later in the day that nobody was touching her fruit salad and what a disaster it was - only to finally hear that everyone in the office thought it was so wonderful in its presentation that they were afraid to touch it. You'd think she would've been relieved and happy, but she wasn't. For whatever reason, she had to be THE BEST. I never quite got that, despite my own tendencies to want to "win" at times - I was never like that.

It was one of her many "quriks"; I'm curious if this is a common occurrence with pwBPD, but also what in their development would trigger it. It's not as if she was a perfectionist with every little facet of her life, only certain things. This never fully added up to me.

[VeryFree]

Mine had that too. Everything had to be perfect.

Reason: she was scared that other people didn't like her if she was less than perfect.

Thanks to her parents for that... .   

[delgato]

I wouldn't say perfectionism is a characteristic trait of BPD, per se.

Lots of different people have those tendencies.

It could be due to OC(P)D, low self-esteem, co-dependency, etc.

I've been bitten by the perfectionism bug; I'm not BPD (but certainly fall under some of the above). I'm more aware of it now, and trying to work on that.

[LetItBe]

Perhaps it has to do with a low sense of self-worth?  I don't think it's specific only to pwBPD, however, my uBPDxbf had a need to feel superior.  There were a couple of different classes he went to with me -- his first time attending a class on either activity/subject matter.  Afterward, both times, he said he wanted to become an instructor, although he didn't continue pursuing either type of class.  When going to a certain health care practitioners, he later commented that he felt like he should know everything that they'd learned in school, and he had to remind himself that he knew things about other subject matters, that while they were in school for X, he was in school for Y.  He was very, VERY hard on himself when a cake he made last year didn't turn out the way he wanted it to.  He set it aside, calling it inedible.  I tried it, and it was delicious!  He was very aware that he struggled with feelings of "not being good enough" even though he is brilliant.  We both connected on that issue of perfectionism.

[eniale]

Those with BPD often exhibit "bizarre" behavior  My expwBPD would absolutely freak out if, when I was washing dishes at his house, I accidentally got a bit of water on his counter.  He actually asked me to PROMISE I would never, ever do it again!  I told him I could not do that; that sinks have spigots, spigots have water, and it is NORMAL to sometimes unintentionally splash a little water on the counter.  He got in an absolute snit and although he had promised to make a great breakfast for us, he would not do it.  Bizarre behavior.  Also, he gave me very detailed instructions on how to put silverware in drawer; had one "grapefruit" spoon and God help me if I put it with the tablespoons rather than with the teaspoons -- and on top of all the other teaspoons.  Once I had to leave early Sun. morning due to a luncheon & he asked me when I was leaving.  Since I had never been at my friend's new home, I started counting backwards:  30 min. to get to my house, 45 minutes to get to hers, in order to determine when I would have to leave.  He freaked out and said "That is NOT what I asked you!"  He wanted instant and precise answers to any questions asked, even though I had to think this one through to come up with an exact time.  I was always walking on eggshells.  Lots of rules and regulations.  My therapist suspected BPD due to 2 things:  I told her I was "always walking on eggshells" and that he seemed to have a great fear of abandonment:  "Please don't leave me!  Just don't leave me."  She suggested I research BPD.  He also had extreme mood swings, another indicator.

[lhd981]

delgato and NonGF:

You both make excellent points. I had seen "perfectionism" listed as a possible BPD trait in some literature, but I was trying to figure out how to make the leap. I agree that it's not specific to BPD and likely linked to low self esteem. Something I'm coming more to grips as a comorbid condition to her BPD. Part of it was changing my own perception as to what low self esteem means - which led me to realize that we certainly complemented each other with our own self esteem issues (I certainly have my own). The cake incident that NonGF mentioned hit close to home; my ex loved to cook and would always be hard on her cooking. At best, she might say "eh, it's alright... . ", but much of it was met with very harsh criticism. I would try it and it would always be delicious!

eniale:

I've written ad nauseum about my ex's bizarre behavior! It fascinated (and scared) me to no end, as I had never experienced anything quite like these bizarre behaviors in my life before. Feel free to look up my previous posts - especially my post on 'red flags' What you described is a more extreme version of how my ex would act, albeit in the same vein. She had a tiny starter apartment in an old multi-family house, along with three cats. She was fanatical about cleaning it and would often "create stress" (I put it in quotes because that's how I perceived it, though I'm sure she didn't mean to do this) for herself by excessive cleaning of the apartment and such. She had a very specific order to things - especially her laundry - and it needed to be done to her EXACT specifications. The slightest deviations in her errands/plans would send her into an absolute fit. When she had to work late nights (often past midnight) at the office, I'd drive up to her apartment and vacuum, put clothes away, clean up after the cats, light scented candles, etc - just to try to reduce her stress. This was rarely met with a thanks so much as criticism for not doing things right.

I shared an infamous story here once about how I once offered to come up one evening to take her sick cat to the vet (as with her full time job and grad school, she didn't have the time, and it was stressing her out), but instead of politely declining, she completely lashed out at me. Saying that she "did things her own way for a reason" and that she "didn't need an assistant". Still no idea what THAT was all about. I was just trying to help!

The kicker? During one of our breakups, she accused ME of being a control freak. The irony is that I'm as CD/people pleaser as they come!

[eniale]

1Hd981 --

Very interesting about your ex-girlfriend.  My ex was extremely critical of me.  He was a perfectionist -- but he could not be perfect about everything -- example:  his kitchen closets were perfect:  canned goods lined up in military fashion, same for refrigerator.  His house was mostly neat and tidy.  I used the guest bath, and once went into his bathroom as I needed to borrow his hairbrush and was appalled -- his toilet was filthy, and I mean filthy.  He simply spent too much time on certain things and did not have enough hours in the day to keep everything perfect, so simply just let things go.  Same thing for his yard.  He spent a lot of money having stonework done on his side yard, a nice fence, plantings, weeding, etc., but his back yard was a total mess -- it was not that big a back yard and he had plenty of money -- I would have just had the whole thing torn up and put in sod -- that is how bad the "grass" (weeds) were.  His perfectionism was very uneven.  He seemed totally unaware of this.  He once complained that a towel in my powder room in my house should be changed -- all I could think of was his filthy toilet bowel but kept my mouth shut (walking on eggshells as you always do with a person with BPD.)  Will try to locate your former posts.  Here's to a new life!

[chuckstrong]

My BPDxgf told me on more than one occassion " you are so so close to perfect but not perfect enough for me"

Wow. Must be nice to be perfect.

Chuck

[apple]

Perfectionism stems from shame, blame and judgement avoidance. My experience is that my exw was perfectionistic with everything on the exterior yet inside a different story. A good "mask" you could say.

Here is a good video that touches on perfectionism

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YeulUgWNp8

[Buzz77]

My ex had what I call demands of impossible, unrealistic perfection:

1) I could only kiss her "noiselessly" (she eventually banned me from kissing her; only she could kiss me... .  ).

2) I had to chew noiselessly.

3) Every joke I had to tell had to be funny (she would grade my jokes).

4) hated when I repeated sayings, such as "I'll take what I can get."

5) being sexual was always on her terms and I had to be ready and primed to perform (even if I wasn't in the mood; mostly she wanted me to be erect to prove that she was sexy and beautiful)

6) had to look at her in "the right way"

7) I could never look at a woman she deemed attractive, even if she was walking down the street.

8)petting her hair had to be at a specific speed and force (as did massaging and rubbing her down).

9) I couldn't call her "baby," "honey," or "sweetheart" (only "kid" or "my girl" was temporarily allowed). 

[Iced]

BPD is oftentimes:

- AVOIDANT: The pwBPD does NOT want to confront the issues going on related to either the BPD itself or the 'origins' of the BPD

- ATTENTION-GETTING: The pwBPD wants so much to be liked and loved... .  

because they are:

- FULL OF FEAR: The pwBPD is terrified of people 'abandoning' them - even if it's a simple 'no thank you'.

Avoidant (not wanting to confront trouble or confront a situation that may lead to trouble), attention-getting (wanting people to love, like, and care and show affection etc), and being full of fear (terrified of abandonment either real or perceived, either small/non-consequential or big) all blend together for the recipe being described in this thread.

If something is 'perfect' then it is 'beyond criticism' - criticism which, to a pwBPD, could be the equivalent of the end of the world.

That said, detail-oriented behaviors could characterize anyone and it isn't limited to BPD.

I know people who have OCD and who display very detail-oriented behaviors and who have meltdowns (on a bad day) because XYZ wasn't arranged or taken care of just so and it's a mental thing for them where it's almost like their brain goes into spaz "Now what I am supposed to do with this mess?" mode.  They're more likely to flail about and dive into 'fixing' whatever it is that wasn't done just so, and less likely to throw insults and blame.

And to me, that's sort of the differentiation between detail-oriented behaviors stemming from things like a literal 'compulsion' or 'obsession' over ideas in the mind vs detail-oriented behaviors stemming from a desire to get attention and avoid negative reactions out of an intense fear... .  or a desire to control someone else.

[lhd981]

Iced:

It's funny as I have a fair bit of OCD myself, especially in my professional life, where I have a huge incentive to be "the best". I certainly have my personal OCD quirks as well, such as keeping my house and cars in immaculate condition, but I do these things for myself (and, to a lesser extent, because I feel a certain level of childhood guilt and have a compulsion to take care of my things). Her obsession with perfection seemed to be a combination of attention-getting and fear of rejection/abandonment (she admitted her fear of abandonment several times).

Buzz:

Your list is practically a verbatim account of the expectations that my first BPD exgf had - enough so that I feel a chill whenever I read it. In addition to every single item you posted, mine also expected me to shower with the door open (lest I should be "pleasuring myself" in the shower, which she viewed as me being unfaithful - she actually forbade that altogether), to let her know about any possible history I may have had with my female friends, to always leave my phone facing up, and if she ever showed me something funny she found on the internet, I was always supposed to just laugh along and under no circumstances could I ever say that I had seen it before (this drove her crazy - mind you, I work in technology, so I've seen pretty much every cat picture with a caption on it that exists!). A wonder why it didn't work out, huh?

chuckstrong:

Mine HEAVILY implied the same thing. She used to talk about her ex quite a bit; I always assumed he was kind of an oaf and a jerk with the way she described him. One day, she nonchalantly told me about a conversation she had with him when he said to her "I don't get it, we're so great 98% of the time, but in that 2% that I mess up, you're vicious and unforgiving". Her response, she told me, was a flat "Yeah, but when you mess up for those 2%, you really mess up... .  ", and proceeded to tell me she wanted the full 100%.

apple:

Thank you very much for posting that! It was an interesting explanation, and one that I'd be inclined to agree with. Looking back on things, I don't think my ex could differentiate between a simple criticism or disagreement versus blatant harsh attacks and abandonment. It all seemed the same to her, I believe, so she always had her guard up (and her claws out). One of her favorite phrases was ":)on't judge me!".

[Buzz77]

Hey lhd981,

My ex has been in over a dozen serious relationships and that's only the ones I know about (she is only 33 btw); LOL if the similarities suggest we dated the same girl. Not to diagnosis too much, but I always believed my ex had OCPD traits as well as BPD traits. I also think that BPDS "feel emotions more strongly, vividly, and longer than normal" (this description was the closest I ever articulated to my ex that she may have BPD). Anyhow, with such strong hyper-emotions, I think "anxiety" was always at the forefront of causing distress for my ex. This extreme anxiety became most problematic when it manifested itself as the obsessive perfectionism I wrote about in the above post. In other words, any perceived flaw, and she felt immediate amped up anxiety, resulting in temper tantrums, silent treatments, projection aimed at me... .  

I remember getting yelled out when I would react off her silent treatment (you could literally feel angry anxiety in the air) by being nervous and quiet myself. She took this as proof that we had lost the connection we once had as best friends. My analogy: she's like someone who is afraid of flying who deals w/ the anxiety of flying by yelling at the stewardess... .