Do I continue or do I break for my own well being

[margjo]

Hi, I'm new here. Although I have lurked on many sites like this for sometime. I am at the point with my 45 yr old daughter where I need to decide do I continue to try and understand this is an illness or do I break for my own well being?

I am learning a lot reading the posts. But I am also becoming discouraged. How do you get someone to seek help when they don't believe they need help. If you were to listen to her I am an over bearing, judge mental mother from hell. I recently asked her to make a list of major events good & bad that have taken place in her life. I asked her to include where I was a moving force. She refused.

I'll keep reading. I hope I can find some answers here.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

It's hard isn't it?

The thing I've learned from my T and from reading this site is that you can't change the BPD person, you can only change how you react to that person and keep your self worth and sense of self.

You deserve to be yourself. If she doesn't want to take responsibility for herself that isn't actually your problem and although she will always try to make it yours, you can choose how you react to her.

And that's a different process for all of us.

With my 21 yr old BPD son it's a slow process of pushing responsibility for himself, his decisions and his actions back onto him, it's painstakingly slow but we're gradually moving away from allowing ourselves to feel as guilty as he believes we are. We are no longer allowing him to define us. He doesn't like it and it's damn hard but we have to save ourselves first before we can help him.

[vivekananda]

hi margjo    

Of course you are discouraged, we all get there and then pull through for another try. I hope you keep on trying, because untimately, there is hope for us here.

Kate got it in a nutshell! And remember the first rule here is to look after yourself.

I would think it would be helpful for you if you continued to try to understand. Remember though that the pw BPD thinks with their emotions. To use logic isn't the wisest thing to do.

I think if you stayed with us, posting and read as much as you could, that you would be able to come to grips what we all finally realise here. That is, there is only one thing we can change... .  ourselves.

Have you read about validation? I think that would be a skill that you could find most helpful. There is a little bit of info here that might be helpful:

Validation - stop invalidating others

And then there is the book that makes the most sense to we parents: Valerie Porr's "Overcoming BPD". I highly recommend it to you.

Do you have any other children? If yes, what do they think?

Vivek     

[Eclaire5]

I agree with Vivek , the more you learn, read other stories, and interact with people who can understand what you have gone through, can be very helpful. We cannot change our BPD children, but at least we can ameliorate our pain by sharing it with others  :'(

[jellibeans]

I will second Valerie Porr's book... .  it is the one I go back to over and over again.

[margjo]

Thank you all. I will keep reading. Although things have gone from bad to worse today. It feels like we are mutually done with each other. In some ways I feel at peace. Our problem is that to see our grandson we have to go through her. She is not always giving of him.


This is one small example of a thousand. 17 months ago we drove 400 miles to visit her at Disney. If we had known she had cashed in her 401K for the trip we never would have gone. Found that out after.  We planned in advance to have our 8 yr old grandson for an overnight. We took him to visit my brother that lives 40 miles from there. She called while we visited and demanded we bring him back. She insisted that is what he wanted. We asked for 1 hour more and she refused totally. We pretty much haven't spoken since.


My husband & son ran the Boston marathon this year. She decided to go (fine) but another son that was with me said she was there and he thought we should join her. We did. Then the bombs happened. We all were very close and it was extremely frightening to my 3 young grandsons to see them go off. Heck, I was frightened as well. It was pretty horrible. We saw her the next day briefly.



I was relaxing at my sons home with my husband. My sons phone rang and when he answered she told him to put her on speaker. He did, she announced she just got engaged. My son asked, To Who? She told him the name of the guy. It was different from who my son knew she was living with just two months earlier. Then he said, am I being punked? That is how bizarre it felt.  I stayed silent and continued to.

She sent us a, save the date by email. I still stayed silent. Somehow she learned we would be away around the time of her upcoming wedding. She sent an email saying, seeing you will be home 2 days before the wedding will you be coming up? We live 1500 miles away. I still didn't answer.  I knew as soon as I opened my mouth I would be blamed for everything again. Her father wrote and told her we would not be up for the wedding. No more, no less. All hell broke lose all over again. Mom's name keeps getting thrown in as the trouble maker.

A not so funny story. He second wedding we had bought tickets for. We had a hotel booked. A week before we were told not to come because we would create bad vibes because she and boyfriend at the time felt that way. Over $1000 out the window.

That marriage lasted 5 years and since the divorce has had 4 more live in boyfriends. That makes five in a ten year olds life.


Things like this have been non stop since she was about 14-15. I don't think we have had any really good break from it ever. Alcohol is a big problem, over spending is a huge problem. A turnstile of men, Complete disrespect of us is a huge problem.


When she was being divorced from her second husband she wanted my husband and I be witnesses for her in a custody case. I said, I honestly can't say you will do a better job than your ex. Have not lived that one down.


I better stop writing and start reading.

Thanks!

[sunshineplease]

I better stop writing and start reading.

 

I hope you can find some comfort and understanding. Detaching with love is so hard, but so helpful!

Hang in there.  

[angeldust1]

Very good advice Kate4queen,  we cannot do a thing about some else that does not see they need help or want help.  We truly are the only ones that we can help,  and that is why you are here on this forum.

[parent of bpd daughter]

I am sorry for you having to be here. I think if she is 45 yo - it's time for you to spend some time on you.

I am in similar position - BPDD 33 yo now - my health is failing quickly due to stress of dealing with her,

I have chosen detachment. I will be here if she needs - she knows where I live - knows my number -

I will send "cordial" cards on her birthday with an impersonal gift of cash if I feel like it, but that's as

far as I can go anymore.

The lists of good/bad things - I've asked for also - actually you're lucky you even get to ask that -

I don't get that far - mostly just talk about the weather, and other cordial talk.

I gave birth to a person without a soul - nothing more I can do - harsh as that sounds. I have a little

bit of my life left to live and I am going to spread as much love as I can to those who are able to

receive it.

I say start "detaching" for your own health and well being.

[vivekananda]

Hi parent of a BPD daughter, it is such a hurtful place to be when you have no contact with your daughter, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder which of us is better off, those with out contact or those with... .  

I think like you that it is important to spread love and practice compassion, including self compassion. I did want to say though that I see detachment as something perhaps a bit different to you and I wonder what you think.

Detachment for me is informed by my understanding from the Eastern philosophies from whence we get the concept. Detachment is not about cutting off from someone, but is about letting go of our ego and our attachment to worldly things for example. In another way of saying it, it means that we look to ourselves to meet our own emotional needs, not to others. So we stop expecting others to do for us, to make us feel good, to show us love etc. Instead we practice radical acceptance, including of ourselves, our inadequacies and all, and stop using 'blame' and 'should' to define what we want. Detachment to me is not about what we do to someone or something, but it is what we practise in ourselves.

Is this what you mean when you say 'I have chosen detachment'?

Cheers,

Viv     

[TopsyTurvy]

Margjo, so sorry to hear what you are going through. It is extremely difficult when grandchildren are involved. When I read your post I could so relate about the revolving door of men. So many men in and out of a young boys life must be confusing for him. It is sad when you see the effects of BPD on their children. My daughter just stopped by about an hour ago to let me know she is getting married next week to a man she has been dating for 2 weeks. We just met him for the first time today. Just 2 months ago she went through a miscarriage with a different boyfriend who her son was calling daddy. It's a whirlwind and the children get swept up in it. Sometimes we can"t rescue them. All we can do is be a safe place for them. Shower them with consistency and love.

I don't think you should have to change your plans to accomodate her spur-of-the-moment decision about this upcoming wedding. Just send her your best and keep your own plans. You have a right to some peace and happiness in your life. I hope you can find a balance between taking care of yourself and being a constant in your grandson's life.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[parent of bpd daughter]

Hi all,

Apologies as I didn't mean to "hijack" this thread - was just adding my own 2 cents as I also struggle

with this "detachment" concept.

Yes - I do understand that detachment isn't about "cutting them out" but about loving them without

craving - affection, reciprocation, ego fulfillment etc etc. Yet I totally confess I am NOT the Dalai Lama or Mother Theresa

just a mere un-enlightened mother struggling like all of us. Detachment is tough when it comes to

our children - especially if we were raised in western society where the most important job a woman

has is nurture of her children - it is a dated concept for sure as being a woman should not equal being

a mother - sorry I digress.

I also must confess I believe NO CONTACT is WAY BETTER than hostile contact - for me at least. When we

had NO CONTACT at all - it was easy for me to send unconditional love to her when I mediated - metta

mediation sending her peace and love as well as to myself.

With this limited contact - I spend too much time trying to recover from

the barbs and emotional bombs she throws my way it  makes it so

so difficult to maintain compassion as I am being attacked and villanized.

Like many of us - I am alone, widowed, no family and much too complicated to discuss this with friends.

And I am working on many other things in my therapy - so only so much time to work on this.

Like many of us my own mother was similarly mentally ill and cruel - and I did learn to detach from her

successfully - albeit with ZERO contact makes it so much easier.

I maintain that at some point we must protect our own health - emotional and physical and sometimes

that can only happen with no contact -  loving them without craving for them to change.

Hope that makes sense - bless all of us here.

[parent of bpd daughter]

P.S.

Margjo - we could have the same daughter - it's uncanny. I too was called at last minute to show up

at her wedding 3 hours away - her 10th relationship since she was 17.

I think your DH was spot on by just saying "no we won't be going" I should have said same. I was

ignored at the wedding, no space for me to sit with her new in-laws at the "Cool" table and the looks I got could have

pierced right thru my heart - not to mention the horrible verbal abuse from her new "in-laws". Do

you think they really delight in seeing us attacked this way? What pleasure can come from this really?

What miserable human beings they must be - I do feel sorry for them going thru life with so much hatred,

yet I know I cannot change it.

I am so relieved you "escaped" Boston unharmed - how terribly frightening that must have been.

A reminder that Life is short isn't it? Never know what day will be our last - too short to deal with all these BPD

mind games and shenanigans for sure.

Take care and know you are a wonderful caring mother.

[margjo]

Thank you all.  It's sad to learn there are so many of us with the same troubles.

My biggest fear is will she harm herself. She has in the past. Can I live with that? I think my mother and my sisters may have had BPD or some other sort of personality disorder. All used alcohol or drugs to deal with their troubles. All 3 acted out in anger, men, gambling. If there was a problem there was no easy way to talk with them about it.

All are dead. I tried without success to get help for my sister. I had my 4 brothers join me at my counselors office to talk about helping her. Next day each one called me and told me they couldn't handle it. A year later 45 my sister OD. My Mom was 46 when she died. I think my mother killed herself. My stepfather said it was a heart attack. I never bought it. She died suddenly at home. I was told there wasn't an autopsy. They could just tell it was a heart attack.

My sons have said to me, you know this isn't going to end well. They're not making a statement about me but their sister and her way of dealing or more accurate not dealing with life.

Thanks for listening.

Margjo

[vivekananda]

margjo, p of BPD d, it is a really sad thing to be a parent of an adult d who cycles through relationships and brings trouble on their heads, who have children (our grandchildren) and we watch as they suffer. Sometimes it feels overwhelming.

I am lucky my dd has no children. She is 32 and we were n/c for about 10 mths, since Dec last year, there has been some limited contact. I feel lucky because at the moment we are feeling a little hopeful that things may improve for her... .  don't think however that means she will get better. That won't happen without the proper treatment.

p of BPD d, thank you for your reply. I am definitely no Mother Teresa either, or Dalai Lama, but I do work hard to find my pathway through the maze. I think times of n/c are a blessing in disguise. I no longer spend time worrying about my dd. Instead I use the time to read up and try to improve my own skills and understanding. I expect with gkids, it would be harder. I expect with a dd who expected me to drop everything and put my hand in my wallet consistently, it would be different. With our dd's money requests and demands upon us, when we were firm about our boundaries last year, it seemed as if we change the game plan. Dh and I more felt in control of ourselves, although it took about 6 mths to get there. It was well worth the struggle to define and implement the boundaries. Perhaps a revisit to boundaries may help you and your dh... .  

margjo I hear when you say your biggest fear is losing her permanently. Again when my dd was spiralling out of control last year, it was our fear too. She had reached rock bottom. We were thinking that she could be involved in illegal activities to get money, if not then she could be on the street, alternatively given her depression we expected a suicide. Given that suicide is a real fear, can I suggest you read the information in this link below, to help you understand the risks. This is from the recently published (just this month) Clinical Guidelines for the Management of BPD and there is a figure that shows how to understand the risk and discusses what the research suggests:

Clinical Practice Guideline for the Management of BPD (Aust)


Vivek