Back in contact -- what now?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all

Well the update is as follows---- since her bday we have had limited text contact

no phone or in person just some light texting... .  on mom's day i texted her " happy mother's day. you are a great mom. hope you have a nice day."

She immediately responds" Oh God. Bawling now for many reasons. Thank you.

Miss how much you supported and cared for me."

I said simply " Still do."

She said,  "I know. I still feel it".

And, that's it. a couple light texts yesterday initiated by her. And quiet today.

So, what now?

Wish i knew. it's SO hard and heartwrenching. Still. Ugh.

Chuck

[chuckstrong]

Hi all

Well the update is as follows---- since her bday we have had limited text contact

no phone or in person just some light texting... .  on mom's day i texted her " happy mother's day. you are a great mom. hope you have a nice day."

She immediately responds" Oh God. Bawling now for many reasons. Thank you.

Miss how much you supported and cared for me."

I said simply " Still do."

She said,  "I know. I still feel it".

And, that's it. a couple light texts yesterday initiated by her. And quiet today.

So, what now?

Wish i knew. it's SO hard and heartwrenching. Still. Ugh.

Chuck

[Phoenix.Rising]

So, what now?

What do You want?

I've read some of  your earlier posts and you seem like an intelligent, caring guy.  If you keep talking to her, will it cause you (and her) more pain?  Is she capable of giving you what you want in an intimate relationship?  Or will the push/pull keep happening indefinitely?  If she does have BPD, then the push/pull is the likely scenario.

Do you want to just be her friend?  If so, are you capable of doing this without letting your deeper love for her get in the way of that?  I tried this, and it became torturous.  I was still in love with her.

We change when the pain becomes almost unbearable.  Have you had enough pain? 

[Newton]

chuckstrong... .  I don't mean to rain on your parade... .  truly.

Look at what her txt actually meant... .  she is refering to what you did for her... .  not who you ARE... .  

Can you see the distinction?... .  

[chuckstrong]

Phoenix --- I'm beginning to think I have . I can't

sustain a friendship with her it's not enough. I do

still love her and it would have to be all or nothing

at this point. But, considering she has BPD and will

never recover I really have no choice but to walk away.

I am intelligent ( and caring ) like you said but my heart

has not let my brain make the right decision for me

so far. And, yes after 8.5 tortureous months I am starting

to think I've just about had enough pain. The LC we have

now is better than her " please don't contact me again "

mandate of four weeks ago but certainly is not enough. We

exchanged 1 or 2 cutsey texts about ice cream today but she

doesnt even know anything about whats really going on in my

life right now. I need someone that cares about me as much

as I care about them.

And yes Newton I see exactly what you are saying.

Sadly in retrospect it was all about her back in

the halcyon days when things were " good" so yes I

get that even our current day to day banter is for her

to boost her narcissistic ego and sooth her feelings and

make her feel better. Just like always.

So, I've said it before lord knows here on these boards

many times it's time for Chuck to take care of Chuck because

she's gonna be just fine with me or without me. And, clearly

I am in a NO win situation here .

BPD wins ---like it always does. Lets face it.


Chuck

[bewildered2]

with a borderline, it is all about them.

always.

you are just meat. you are there to make them happy. and if you fail, then you are worthless to them.

and so you leave. they carry on, trying to find happiness through some other means. they fail. because trhey can never be happy.

and then you pop up again. offering yourself up on a plate. and so she takes a bite, to see how it tastes. and if it tastes alright, but not great, she puts it down. and then you sprinkle a little more sugar on top, and then maybe she'll take another bite.

and it goes on, and will go on like this until you decide to spend yourself in other ways, or on another person.

should it be painful like this? you love someone, and think she loves you. but it is painful. is that a good sign?

if you expect her to be a different person this time, then you will be disappointed. things get progressively worse with a borderline. after every break-up and reconciliation, the next break-up will be worse.

8.5 months in... .  the writing is on the wall... .  you know what she is like.

and so you ask, what now?

that is entirely up to you. she is a dingbat, and she will hurt you, if you let her.

that's the here and now.

am with you my friend,

b2 

[bewildered2]

chuck,

just another couple of comments for you... .  

you say she will be fine with with you or without you. not true. she has a very severe mental disorder. she has a horrible life, and always will.

as for the BPD always winning... .  i would put it another way. you will never beat a borderline. she isnt winning. but you will never beat her.

the only way for chuck to win in this situation is to walk away and stay away. you can do it. i did. so you can too.

hang in there. it gets better.

the truth is that if you can get away and stay away, then you have had a very lucky escape from living hell.

b2

[chuckstrong]

Thank you Bewildered for the post and the

advice. It's SO hard as I m sure you know. It's

been 8.5 months since the last breakup. The 11

months before we're generally great as we were

In the idealization/ honeymoon period and the

devaluation and discarding was just beginning

end of last summer. I met her early Oct 2011 so

it's been 19.5 months total this whirlwind crazy

dance with BPD.

How long have you been out? Total NC?

How did you finally do it. Please advise.

In the 19.5 months 13 days is still my NC

record. Gotta find a way. This hurts TOO much.

Chuck

[Phoenix.Rising]

You do it one day at a time, very similar to breaking a drug addiction.  I loved her, yes, but I also became addicted to her.  One definition of codependency is addiction to a person.  It is a strange, horrible conundrum. 

Time and space do make it a bit easier.  But I also know, from my own experience, if I don't address the most important problem, ME, I will keep repeating the same pattern ad infinitum.  How do I do that?  Honest reflection, acceptance, therapy, willingness to change, recovery... . I very much understand what you are going through.  I don't feel completely out of the woods myself and we have been NC for 4 months, the longest period for me in over 2 1/2 years.

[bewildered2]

chuck,

i have been nc for years.

the way to go nc is to cease all contact. just dont respond. and don't initiate any contact.

it is hard. just like breaking any addiction.

you will be tempted to have contact. and that is when you must remembver all the hitty things she did and said. write them down on a piece of paper. carry the paper in your wallet. when you miss her, pull it out and read the paper.

and then get busy with other things.

it works.

you just have to be strong.

lots of people are going thru the same thing right now, so you are not alone.

hang in there,

b2

[Validation78]

Hey Chuck

You have come to the same realization that many of us have. BPD is a mental illness, and having a relationship with a pwBPD is not what we think it should be. With this knowledge comes the responsibility of taking our lives in our own hands, and walking away from what doesn't work for us, what isn't healthy. You've done that, and the further away you get from it, the easier it will be.

Think of your feelings as compassion for a person who will never get better and is destined to repeat the same mistakes over and over. You have an opportunity to learn from this, and not repeat the same mistakes over and over. If you must think of this as a win lose thing, I think you win!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[chuckstrong]

Thanks Val Phoenix and B2 ... .  I keep reading your advice

and comments again and again to remind me that the ONLY

choice here for MY well being, healing, and sanity is to walk

away totally. It's hard and it will have to be a process. I'll admit

that it will take some work. I will not make any grand NC

proclamations to you all here today or to her because ( as those

that have followed me the past 8 months) I've done that before

to no avail. After some NC ( the record 13 days) a few weeks ago

I was immediately sucked right back in again.

it) by a cute pic of us kissing and hugging she sent me out of the blue

because I think she felt me slipping away. That led to lots of text and

email contact ( no phone or in person) the past couple weeks with me

reaching out nicely on her bday and Mom's day. It's been very light

and intermittent but enough to feed my addiction and her narcissism I

guess. So, it continues.

Yesterday my oldest son graduated from college so I texted

her a pic from the ceremony and that started a string of texts

with pics from both sides ( she was with family at a bar-b-que

restaurant) . This went on till 10pm last night. But, despite the

texting I haven't spoken to her via phone in 6 weeks or seen her

in person in 4 months. She told me a few weeks ago in an email

please don't contact me again move on I'm seeing someone. Then

when I started too she sends me the pic. That I look at just about

everyday. So, the problems here are many. I feel empty the next day

or even hours later after these cutsey text exchanges mostly about

the kids and such and it's getting me nowhere in the end. Like it has

for months and months it prolongs the eventually agony. But like a drug

addict I keep longing for just one more little hit from the crack pipe. And

like a drug dealer she keeps giving me just enough to keep me hooked.

I know I need to do what many have suggested here. Forget the amazing

sex and incredible closeness I thought we had and focus instead on all the

things she's done to hurt me and the list is long. I've put it on paper. Wow

she's put me thru h***. So, why oh why like so many of us here do I stick

around and ask for more? I ask myself that every single day.

Please keep reminding me those that have made it thru that

it is possible. I can and will get past her. I can get back my power

and pride and be Chuck again. Chuckstrong again.

Thank you all.

[patientandclear]

Hey Chuck:

These are important insights:

TIt's been very light

and intermittent but enough to feed my addiction and her narcissism I

guess.

But like a drug

addict I keep longing for just one more little hit from the crack pipe. And

like a drug dealer she keeps giving me just enough to keep me hooked.

You can see what you're doing, and you can see what she's doing.  Knowing and accepting this, try to stop telling yourself any false tales about the importance of this and what it might lead to.  That may help with detaching and according her, and the communication, less importance even if you don't use NC.

What's going on with you now is a kind of "closeness" pwBPD are pretty good at: intermittent flashes combined with long droughts.  No accountability because the terms of the r/s don't require any consistency or obligation.  If you can genuinely be OK with this level of r/s, there's nothing wrong with it per se.  As you know, it's the sort of thing I did with my ex for months.  I thought it was the best he could do and I approached it with a very different frame of mind than yours because I'd had 10 months of NC and in my own head I was accepting that we could only be friends.

The danger comes if you get confused about what you're doing and where it might lead.  If she is uBPD she likely just doesn't have the skills to take a relationship with someone who knows her well to the next level of reality and intimacy.  Too many fears and risks.  It's preferable to start over with someone else, or more precisely, to be able to do so (whether she is actually doing that or not).  The better you understand her and the more you show her that, the more you are a big potential threat if she ever really let you in again.  Why should she take that chance when you're right here affirming her at arm's length all the time?  So -- don't think that there's some natural progression from this to something more substantial.

Do you feel better or worse now than you felt during your almost two weeks of NC, after your strong responses to her setting your own boundaries and defending the significance of the r/s to you?

[eniale]

Would recommend NC.  You will just prolong your misery.  She needs and welcomes attention, but can she be in a mutual relationship where BOTH parties can find security, love, intimacy?  I consider myself to have been just another meal on my ex's food chain.  Some people are just bottomless pits and no matter how much you love and give, they will break your heart.  I have maintained NC for over 3 months.  Now whenever I finding myself "clinging to the words I loved to hear" I realize those words meant nothing as his actions were the total opposite, e.g. "I want us to belong to each other and spend the rest of our lives together" morphed to "Things changed, I thought what we had was enough" etc.  Such people want devotion for themselves but are incapable of giving it in return.  It is all about THEM.  Do yourself a big favor and stick with NC.  THE WOUND WILL BLEED BUT THEN IT WILL START TO HEAL.  (Just stop ripping the scab off by maintaining any kind of contact.)

[PaintedBird]

you will be tempted to have contact. and that is when you must remembver all the  please read               |ty things she did and said. write them down on a piece of paper. carry the paper in your wallet. when you miss her, pull it out and read the paper.

That's a really, really great idea... .  I'm going to do this.

[fromheeltoheal]

My BPD ex invited me on her family vacation last year, a cruise.  She invited me months in advance, when things were 'good', but by the time the cruise arrived, she was in full blown devaluation mode, and I was in denial still and giving 110% trying to 'fix' it.  I know you guys know.

So the days leading up to the cruise were a living hell.  I have to give her points for creativity, since every single thing out of her mouth was a criticism, a negative judgement, a devaluation, or humor at my expense, in front of her kids, and she could keep it up for hours.  And then the cherry on top was for her to decide that she was going to share the cabin with the big bed with her daughter, and I got banished to the cabin with the two tiny beds, and had her son as a roommate.  Last straw people, you DO NOT do that to a man.  So I spent most of the week making new friends on the cruise and completely avoiding her.

So my point?  It was all painful enough to push me over the edge.  When we got off the boat I made a beeline for the airport, got home, got rid of her on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn, deleted all the emails and texts, deleted all the pictures, threw away anything she'd given me, and I'm proud to report I haven't visited her Facebook or Twitter pages or her website, she's called a few times and I ignored it, sent me an email, I deleted it.  Sure, the first few months were very tough, but I was determined and committed to never let that fcking btch screw with my life again, even though I felt the pull like a crack addict.

So there you go, war story with a successful outcome.  Do that.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I feel empty the next day or even hours later after these cutsey text exchanges mostly about the kids and such and it's getting me nowhere in the end. Like it has for months and months it prolongs the eventually agony. But like a drug addict I keep longing for just one more little hit from the crack pipe. And like a drug dealer she keeps giving me just enough to keep me hooked.

I felt the same emptiness after many 'renewed hopes', which were repeatedly dashed like ocean waves crashing into the rocks.  It felt like my heart was ripped out of my chest and laid on the shore to bleed.  It is still bleeding.