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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Are BPD Persons Passive Aggressive?  (Read 796 times)
leftbehind
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« on: May 14, 2013, 11:35:04 PM »

I'm wondering if passive aggressive behavior is typical for BPD.  My ex was very sweet.  We had a great relationship for 8 months, then he broke up with me and cut me out of his life very abruptly and with no emotion.  In the belittling thread, I wrote about some of his comments:  he thought my snoring was "cute", he thought my being hard of hearing was "endearing", he thought the way I chew really loudly was "so interesting!", he liked how my eyebrows didn't match up symmetrically. 

At the time, it was all said so innocently, but it would make me feel insecure.  Then there was always what I considered flirting with any young cute cashier or salesgirl.  It would upset me and I would overreact, but when we talked he always denied that it was flirting, saying he's just a goofy guy that loves to make people laugh. 

Then there were the times that he was physically with me, but I felt him being detached and miles away.  He would always say to just let him be "out there" and he would eventually come back.  It felt like he was dissociating, and that he was pulling away from me emotionally, mentally and energetically.  But at the same time he was right there, only he was interacting with me on a superficial level.

And then he would alternate between being sexual and asexual, enjoying physical affection and being completely ambivalent about it. 

He always wanted to go into our mutual place of work (I've since left post breakup) when we were enjoying our weekend together.  This became a bone of contention because to me it was a place of employment, and to him it was a hang out where he would see his friends.  It caused a couple of fights, until I asked him if we could agree not to make going into this establishment part of our weekend together.  He agreed, and then the next weekend said he felt that "Spirit" wanted him to go there.  I kept saying, "But we made an agreement last week!"

I never knew if there were things he was unhappy with because he always presented as if he was in a good mood.  So it was more me getting upset:  over the flirting, over his comments that made me insecure, over him laughing when some stupid bad thing would happen to me (like spilling oil on my brand new pants, when I barely had any money for new clothes), over him initiating sex less and less. 

Because he never picked a fight, never was abusive, and I was the one who tended to overreact when issues would keep coming up without resolution, I've been blaming myself.  I always used to tell him that he was the sweetest guy I've ever known.  But how he ended it by email, showed no emotion when I confronted him, and threw out every remnant of our time together (gifts, mementos, pictures, cards, even paintings he made when we were dating) within one hour of sending me the break up email points to a different person.  When he unfriended me on facebook a week later and I went to his house to confront him and he threatened to call the police, he even looked like a completely different person.

I am torn because to any outsider, it would seem as if at times I was a rag of a girlfriend.  The rest of the time I was a truly loving partner.  He was always happy go lucky and never upset. 

This experience has left me blaming myself.  The turnaround from him telling me he was incredibly in love with me to initiating a break up was 4 days.  Except for one email 6 weeks ago saying, "I hope you're doing good!" which I never responded to, he has gone completely NC.  He promised me that he would call and we would talk, but that never happened.  I am left feeling like I was led to believe he loved me, flaws and all, and then he disappeared when I started to relax more in the relationship.  Because he is such a "nice guy", I'm also left feeling like the bad guy.

Does anyone else have any experience with an exBPD who isn't abusive, but rather passive aggressive?  And did it cause you to blame yourself for the breakup?

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BlushAndBashful
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 12:05:25 AM »

I hate to fuel the fire of any "are all pwBPD this way" type questions, but my ex was extremely, hard-core, 100% passive aggressive. I honestly didn't know what PA was or meant until I caught him doing something that we had JUST discussed a few days earlier, and he said "I do tend to be a bit PA" (understatement of the year). I had to google it.

He would do things behind my back constantly. He would do things specifically to spite me (his words). He would manipulate situations - true pre-meditated, calculated manipulation, not the usual "it feels like I'm being manipulated" stuff. We rarely (if ever) had disagreements, which lead me to believe we were perfect for each other because we agreed on everything. It turns out it was only because he was extremely conflict-avoidant and would parrot "yes, Dear" to anything I said- only to be internally pissed off at me and do something to retaliate.

He also rarely painted me black to my face- he lived a double life (Heck, he lived about 6 different lives, depending on which audience he had). I didn't know he was spreading his own version of reality to all his friends and family. The smear campaigns started from day 1 behind my back and never abated.

I think this behavior is what was so devastating to me. He was HF so didn't have all these glaring red flags we were supposed to notice. Everything was very subtle and covert. I just thought I was bad at communicating, or I remembered things differently, or I imagined conversations, or I just was going crazy.   
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Iced
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 01:30:46 AM »

In all honesty, given how his reactions were to your breakup (he seemed like he was perfectly fine with breaking up and with most pwBPD, there's something known as an Extinction Burst), it seems like he never actually really was committed to getting back into a relationship with you in the first place.

Not that he didn't care for you anymore, but just... .  not really interested in renewing the relationship or committing to a fully renewed relationship.

If that's the case, and if he never consistently exhibited disordered-thought processing (really illogical thought processing, like 2 + 2 = 7) and dysregulated emotions (overreacting to tiny things) which are two HUGE characteristics in a person with BPD, then his 'passive aggressiveness' could just be the byproduct of a literal lack of interest rather than BPD itself.

Though I started reading some of your posts, I haven't had a chance to finish reading them all so can I ask if he ever got the official diagnosis for it (or anything else before)?

Have you had a chance to see a therapist yourself to get a reality check on the situation?  Therapists are awfully useful as a 3rd party who is totally uninvolved to bounce thoughts and feelings off of and get feedback.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 05:48:53 AM »

Iced ... .  FWIW I've read LeftBehind's story and it is chapter and verse like a million on these boards.  I have zero doubt about her guy and BPD.

While I think LB does have a T who suggested her ex may be BPD, I'm not sure that's an appropriate reaction to her story here, and I find reactions like "oh, maybe he just wasn't that into you" incredibly invalidating here.  This was one of those classic BPD betrayals/abandonments that do serious, serious damage, and we don't need to compound it by suggesting that maybe there was nothing disordered about this behavior and maybe WE need to see a T if we think there was.
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 06:43:06 AM »

My ex was EXTREMELY passive aggressive.  He always seemed okay with whatever I suggested (movie, restaurant, television program, etc. etc.) but then threw them back in my face at the end.  "We always did what YOU wanted to do... .  " etc.  When he was devaluing me at the end, he admitted tat he always told me what I wanted to hear.  It was like a punch in the stomach, because it was then I knew that I could never trust him and that our entire relationship had been a lie.  Looking back, he did that so often; he told me people what they wanted to hear and then would belittle them behind their backs. 

I think everyone has a little passive-aggressiveness in them.  Now, I catch myself doing it sometimes and remember how frustrated his PA made me.  Live and learn. 
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Cardinals in Flight
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 06:52:42 AM »

LB, I'm sorry you are hurting. I can so relate!

With a few minor changes detail wise, my break up went very much like yours.

Passive aggressiveness was and is a trait in my pwBPD/Xgf. 

Silent treatment being one her biggest resources for dealing with any difference of opinion or my expressing myself differently from her.

I'm no saint, and I realize that lately I probably deserved some of her ire, mostly because I decided I wasn't taking her crap anymore, disordered or not.

Hang in there, try hard to focus on you.  I know everybody says that, and it can seem hollow reading it while you are hurting so much, but it is true.

I'm in your same boat, trying to move forward and get over this broken r/s.

Hugs to you.

CiF
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leftbehind
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 07:34:35 AM »

Hi Iced, thanks for your feedback.  I went back to seeing my T right after my ex broke up with me, and she swears he is a classic BPD.  (He also had left the two women before me's lives in ruins after promising them the moon, stars and the sun, but that's another story). 

I know you may not be familiar with all my posts, but what felt like BPD behavior was my ex's insistence that I was the one, that we were soulmates, that I was the only woman on the planet for him, etc... .  and on and on.  I do believe there is something mentally ill about telling a person for months that you are incredibly in love with them, and then initiating a breakup and no contact 4 days later.  There were other behaviors and signs as well that I've written about in other posts.

So the BPD part is, when he was into me (white), he was INTO me.  And then almost the very next day, (black) I was treated like the dirt on his shoe. 

There's more, but I'll leave it at that.
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 07:47:05 AM »

I don't know if all BPD are passive aggressive but my BPD was, in the extreme.  She admitted, in writing, thankfully, (so i won't forget) that she lied to me just to tell me what I wanted to hear.  Her lies included things like "I love you" when, she was telling her friends that she despised me.  There was an entire emotional world that she inhabited in her portrayal of me to her friends that I can't even recognize,  I think the most damaging part was that, if she had just said those things to my face, the relationship would have ended quickly and instead I wasted seven years trying to fix an unfixable thing.

The comment about your charming mis-matched eyebrows made me laugh out loud, because I got the same line.  If it is buried in a compliment it isn't a dig, right?  There were an endless litany of critiques buried in compliments, and I became so mistrustful that I couldn't receive her actions that were possibly real kindness.  Gas lighting, the silent treatment, withholding, and passive-aggressive methods can leave a lasting injury.  It will be a long time and will take much therapy before I ever trust anyone else the way I trusted her (my "soulmate".

Anyway, this was just my experience... .  and no, I do not think it is true of all borderlines.  Just the ones with co-morbid passive-aggressive personality disorder or traits.  
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 08:02:11 AM »

Grace58, there were many comments like that, "Veiled Insults," that at the time I chose to ignore, because I couldn't believe that this man that professed to be so in love with me would mean it in a hurtful way. 

I'm sure in the end that he found those same things repulsive about me when he split me black.
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 08:49:48 AM »

Yup, I think that was the thing that got me - I could not believe that someone who loved me would treat me like that.  That is what I am working on in therapy - believe it, hear what people are saying with those digs.  Tis true, everything she found so charming about me soon became the same things she hated about me. 
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 09:09:08 AM »

Leftbehind, I've read just about all your posts and can very much relate to the turmoil and confusion. My BPD ex was very spiritual in a self-professed way (I tend to go for nature-loving free spirit "hippie" types, and she certainly came across as one... . ). She often told me about what wonderful vibes she gets from me and what a deep metaphysical connection we had.

She was utterly insidious with her passive aggressiveness. She'd use the same sweet, innocent tone to tell me how much she loved me and wanted to marry me, and also to tell me how we were just friends and not in a real relationship. We could be having a seemingly great day, full of much affection, and she would just let out with a passive aggressive dig at our relationship or me without as much as skipping a beat. It would leave a giant pit in my stomach - but I would rationalize these things six ways to Sunday.

Like Grace58 said, I couldn't reconcile how somebody that acted so in love with me could possibly say and do these things. It didn't add up. There was zero consistency.





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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 09:16:51 AM »

Passive aggressive? Yes, yes and yes. My ex 's piece de resistance was to say something really nasty or tell me something shocking and then say 'I was only joking- I'd never say/do something like that!' Then he would criticise me for believing him or being upset by what he said.

It is actually abusive and it totally messes with your head. It's impossible to argue with and it's horrible. I'm very glad that I'm not having to deal with that sort of mindf*** any more. It really make one start to doubt one's sanity.

As painful as this is for you right now you are out.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) There are people who don't act like that. There is a whole world of normal which we forget exists or have never even encountered properly because our make up is such we have been immersed in dysfunction all our lives.
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 09:52:21 AM »

She was utterly insidious with her passive aggressiveness. She'd use the same sweet, innocent tone to tell me how much she loved me and wanted to marry me, and also to tell me how we were just friends and not in a real relationship. We could be having a seemingly great day, full of much affection, and she would just let out with a passive aggressive dig at our relationship or me without as much as skipping a beat. It would leave a giant pit in my stomach - but I would rationalize these things six ways to Sunday.

This was my scenario exactly.  That and the silent treatment.  Silent Treatment is classic PA.  I would say that most are PA but do they realize it?  My ex was very quick to label others, including myself, as such. 
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 10:03:22 AM »

Bananas:

Yes! The silent treatment was ever-pervasive in our relationship. Likewise, my ex was very quick to label others, and myself, as being PA. Projection much? She once said, in that same sweet voice, "I think you subtly put me down" - prior to giving me silent treatment for the next few hours - I was floored and confused. Of course, in true CD fashion, I quickly repressed and what had happened as soon as she started talking and acting affectionate again.
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 11:57:18 AM »

lhd981, one of the passive aggressive things my ex would do was when there was conflict between us he would tell me early in the day that he changed his mind about sleeping over that night, even though he was willing to spend the rest of the day with me. 

He didn't want to leave right then, and he wanted the freedom to change his mind if he suddenly decided to stay, but I feel he was also trying to punish me by threatening to leave.  It would trigger my abandonment issues, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the rest of the day because I knew he was disconnecting from me.  I also have a big thing about people keeping their word, so if you say you're going to be sleeping over I get upset if you suddenly change that plan. 

In retrospect, I see that it was a subtle attempt to control my actions.  ("If you're going to bring up this subject that I don't want to talk about, then I'm sleeping at my own place tonight."  This wasn't stated, but was the subtext.  I would rather have had him state that directly, but it was always presented in some psuedo-spiritual way, "I feel the need to be alone tonight.  I'm going through an energy shift", etc.  Who could get mad or argue about that?

Yes, to take ownership, it would bring out the little kid in me, "But you promised!"  But I also knew it was controlling/withholding/punishing behavior on his part that I didn't think the situation warranted.

That's why I started this thread.  Because my T keeps telling me that my ex is not only BPD, but passive aggressive as well, and I've been telling her that I don't see that in him.  But as I start to examine things more closely, and as I hear from others their experience, I'm beginning to think she's right.  Not trying to shift blame, just trying to stop blaming myself for EVERYTHING.
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 12:04:23 PM »

He didn't want to leave right then, and he wanted the freedom to change his mind if he suddenly decided to stay, but I feel he was also trying to punish me by threatening to leave.  It would trigger my abandonment issues, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the rest of the day because I knew he was disconnecting from me.  I also have a big thing about people keeping their word, so if you say you're going to be sleeping over I get upset if you suddenly change that plan.  

Yes, to take ownership, it would bring out the little kid in me, "But you promised!"  But I also knew it was controlling/withholding/punishing behavior on his part that I didn't think the situation warranted.

That's why I started this thread.  Because my T keeps telling me that my ex is not only BPD, but passive aggressive as well, and I've been telling her that I don't see that in him.  But as I start to examine things more closely, and as I hear from others their experience, I'm beginning to think she's right.  Not trying to shift blame, just trying to stop blaming myself for EVERYTHING.

LB, your ex sounds SO much like my ex that I wonder if we dated the same man!

So, our ex's sound almost exactly the same, and my ex has all 9 BPD traits, was hospitalized as a teen, and has mentioned having "disorders," but he would never mention what disorders.  My T also identified him as having BPD after hearing all about him and also meeting him for a couple's session with me.  So, yes, while only a qualified therapist can actually diagnose BPD, I think my hunch about my ex having BPD and your hunch about yours having BPD are both backed up by lots of evidence of BPD.
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 12:15:05 PM »

Thank you NonGF, PatientandClear, LHD981, and everyone one else on this thread for validating my experience.  Really, I can't express enough how all of you are saving my sanity right now  
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 12:22:59 PM »

Yup, I think that was the thing that got me - I could not believe that someone who loved me would treat me like that.  That is what I am working on in therapy - believe it, hear what people are saying with those digs.  Tis true, everything she found so charming about me soon became the same things she hated about me. 

AMEN... .  

Whether it was passive-aggressiveness, snide remarks, unbridled rage, or the silent treatment, it always left me in emotional shock. Those kinds of behaviors just did not compute for me, they're not in my repertoire. They always left me stunned and immobilized.
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 12:55:12 PM »

I'm sitting here in my office nodding like a madman while reading your last post Smiling (click to insert in post)

I may be young, but I like to think I know how to be a good partner! His "changing his mind" about sleeping over, to me, is a childishly controlling response. It's an elementary form of punishment, and yes, very passive aggressive. Of course, him dressing these sentiments up in the guise of spirituality doesn't make them any less hurtful, and is yet another form of childish control - it's a cheap attempt at avoiding criticism and responsibility for one's actions. It's a way for him to have his cake and eat it too.

My ex essentially wanted me to constantly show her that I wanted to spend time with her, but she wanted the choice of being able to change her mind depending on her schedule and stress level. Despite her calling me a control freak at least once (which still elicits a chuckle), she was in full control of when we got to see each other, as everything essentially worked around her schedule (and stress level). I used to think this was healthy and normal (!), as I'm very much a "to each his own" type person, and accept the fact that not everybody thinks like me. But at the same time, it's not unreasonable to expect healthy dialogue and compromise. Yes, plans will sometimes inevitably fall through, but if your partner is copping out or, in my case, raging at you, there's something clearly wrong.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to expect certain things from each other in a relationship, within reason, of course. It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that your partner keep his word/promise, especially if he's aware that you have issues with abandonment.

Before I realized that my ex was BPD, she had spoken of her own issues with abandonment. I swore to her that while I had a hectic life between running my business, trying to start another, battling a lawsuit, and some family health issues, I would always be there for her no matter what - even if plans did change and it was beyond my control, I would always apologize, explain the situation, and re-plan as soon as possible - all while keeping in regular communication with her, to show her that I am not abandoning her in the least bit. Yes, I have some CD traits, but I think this is just common decency.

A conflict or a bruised ego does not give you the right to hurt somebody.

 
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Cardinals in Flight
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 03:00:24 PM »

Passive aggressive? Yes, yes and yes. My ex 's piece de resistance was to say something really nasty or tell me something shocking and then say 'I was only joking- I'd never say/do something like that!' Then he would criticise me for believing him or being upset by what he said.

Edit for brevity

As painful as this is for you right now you are out.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) There are people who don't act like that. There is a whole world of normal which we forget exists or have never even encountered properly because our make up is such we have been immersed in dysfunction all our lives.

I'm counting on there being "normal" out there Maria!  The veiled compliments with my pwBPD were a major part of the r/s.  EVRYTHING used to be follwed by "I'm only joking!"  Also the controlling, "I've changed my mind" thing. 


When you read here about all of the similarities it just boggles my mind... .  

CiF
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 03:52:37 PM »

All of your responses have helped me see all the different shapes passive aggressive behavior can take.  I have a hard time seeing it because I tend to blame myself, and label myself as "too sensitive".  Hearing all of your experiences helped to validate what I went through, so I truly thank every one of you
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 09:48:19 PM »

lhd981, one of the passive aggressive things my ex would do was when there was conflict between us he would tell me early in the day that he changed his mind about sleeping over that night, even though he was willing to spend the rest of the day with me.  

He didn't want to leave right then, and he wanted the freedom to change his mind if he suddenly decided to stay, but I feel he was also trying to punish me by threatening to leave.  It would trigger my abandonment issues, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the rest of the day because I knew he was disconnecting from me.  I also have a big thing about people keeping their word, so if you say you're going to be sleeping over I get upset if you suddenly change that plan.  

My ex was passive-aggressive through and through.  He wouldn't ever communicate verbally that he was angry or upset with me, but he would just find other ways to punish me.

Once, after we'd been dating about 9 months, and we had an established pattern of spending weekend nights together, he got ready to leave after a very romantic dinner out at the restaurant where we had our first date.  We were very close, very affectionate, and after we'd been kissing awhile back at my place, he pulled back and announced he was going home to get some rest.  This was a total surprise to me, not our normal routine at all.  I was sad and hurt -- why would he want to leave now?  He wouldn't admit to anything being wrong, and he got upset with me for being upset (imagine!).  I asked him a few days later if he could let me know at the beginning of our weekend evenings together if he planned on leaving if he didn't want to spend the night.  I explained that I'd feel more comfortable if I knew what our plan was and wouldn't feel blindsided by him leaving suddenly when we'd been spending our weekend evenings together up until that point.  Well, a few days after that, it was the weekend again.  We had an amazing, romantic dinner again with lots of affection, etc.  We even talked about his push/pull tendencies, he acknowledged it was hard on me, and he said I hadn't seen the best of him yet.  We got back to my place and made love -- it was fabulous!  Then, as we were laying there cuddling, while I was still floating in my oxytocin cloud and still sweating, he announced that he would show me where he was having pain from a running injury -- before he headed home to get some sleep.  So, he decided not only to ignore my request to please let me know in advance that he's going to leave, but he had sex with me first -- and I have some vulnerabilities around sex (due to an abusive childhood) that he is very aware of.  He knew his behavior was hurtful.  I started to think maybe I was asking for too much, but I don't have any female friends I've talked to who wouldn't be hurt by that behavior.

There are many, SO MANY other examples of his PA behavior.  I could go on and on.  I think it is a way of being for him.  He has an enormous amount of suppressed anger he's carrying around and won't talk about it, so it is expressed in his actions.  He's very clever about it, too, being the perfectionist he is.  He did things in such a way that if I got upset, it certainly wasn't because of something he did.  

My T said it so well:  "You get close, then he punishes you."
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2013, 11:05:22 PM »

Does anyone else have any experience with an exBPD who isn't abusive, but rather passive aggressive?  And did it cause you to blame yourself for the breakup?

PA is abusive.

PA is not typical for those with BPD – its is typical for folks who have poor coping skills, poor regulation and lack emotional maturity to voice their concerns but rather avoid and act in to punish another person.

It is not the PA that caused me to blame myself – I was taught from a very young age that even being a “good girl” came with punishment. Do some inner exploring leftbehind – the answer is inside you not her.

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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2013, 11:48:26 PM »

Good point, Clearmind.  I never even considered that PA was a form of abuse.  Makes me think. 

Does anyone else have any experience with an exBPD who isn't abusive, but rather passive aggressive?  And did it cause you to blame yourself for the breakup?

Do some inner exploring leftbehind – the answer is inside you not her.

My ex is a he, but yes I've definitely been looking at my childhood throughout all of this, and also seeing a T to help me figure out what are my patterns around relationships.
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 07:32:52 AM »

It is not the PA that caused me to blame myself – I was taught from a very young age that even being a “good girl” came with punishment. Do some inner exploring leftbehind – the answer is inside you not her.

I was taught from a very young age that the abuse inflicted upon me was my fault, and I see the tendency I've had even as an adult to place a lot of blame on myself.  It's one of the reasons I recycled with my ex.
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Chazz
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2013, 11:51:52 AM »

Clearmind... .  I totally hear you about "the abuse inflicted upon me was my fault". I have the same habit of thinking. That is a huge set-up for all kinds of disaster.

I sometimes feel like one of those police suspects who confesses to crimes they didn't commit.   

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eniale
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »

It is possible for a person to have a "cluster" of personality disorders.  I learned this today from my therapist.  So I assume a personal with BPD could also be passive-aggressive.  In my case, the person is my life shows definite symptoms of BPD (difficulty in personal relationships, wide mood swings, fear of abandonment) but also symptoms of ND -- very critical of me, constantly finding fault with me, yet always sensitive to any "slights" or criticisms he imagines others have of him.  In addition, he is commitment-phobic (Excellent book:  Men Who Can't Love and a later version of this book includes women:  She's Scared, He's Scared.)  Commitment-phobics will sabotage, destroy or run away from a relationship if they see there is a possibility of a solid, committed relationship.  They only run when the relationship is good, not when it is bad.  Imagine combining that with BPD and its fear of abandonment... .  the result is a horribly conflicted person.  So yes, I think it is possible for 2 or even several disorders to co-exist; I think besides "clusters" it is also called co-morbidity. 
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