have you forced your SO to get into treatment or waited until they hit bottom?

[wdone]

it's been suggested to me several times over the years, but especially lately, that i "force" my bf to get help, through putting a court ordered hold on him or putting my foot down and saying he must go to a psychiatrist. 

in my case, i feel like he'd never forgive me--but of course, that won't matter as much if he does hurt himself and follow through with the suicide threats.

and, i did tell him on friday night, that he must see a dr. but i did not have any kind of follow through or boundary with it. he did agree, but who knows what will happen?

he has dysregulated again, and is pulling the silent treatment again. 

i am tempted to not do a thing--

when i was on vacation, he told me he got kicked out of a store. the details of why are unclear, but he says he may have been yelling into his phone, and he lost track of time when they had told him they were closing.  anyway, he said he knew he was "insane" and needed help.  he said maybe he "needs meds."

i've been taught in alanon to focus on myself, let go of results and expectations, not try to control others, trust god... .  

i try to apply all the principles here with my SO, but it seems like a different case that my interactions with others... .  

i'm just curious how others have dealt with so much illness/suicidal talk/dysregulation and what ultimately happened, if recovery came about... .  

was it forced? was it your SO's awareness and choice? was it a conversation/decision between the two of you?

thanks

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[wdone]

got a text this morning

"i feel so much better now that i'm not in a relationship"

i was like, huh?

it made me smile.  which is a big change in my reaction to his other texts that come out of the blue like this in the past.  and when i called my friend to talk about it, she started laughing, and then i did, too! which was a big relief and i was able to see the craziness, and know it is not me. i can see the pattern.  it's/i'm still very sad, though.

i texted back that i am get he feels this way today, but that he did not feel this way last week and will not feel this way next week, if history repeats itself, that this seems like symptom that he goes through with everyone in his life, of a larger problem  within himself, and that i am sorry he has been struggling for so long, and that i love him, and asked if he made an appt yet.

what do you think about that text back... .  ? i tried to be validating while not playing into it. 

i'm bracing myself for his angry, mean texts like he's done in the past, but i am going to run errands and go for a run.  trying to focus on my day, and let go of his being dyregulated. 

i would appreciate feedback, though... .  did i handle it ok?

[patientandclear]

Have you read "I'm Not Sick ... .  " by F. Amador? I think it would be really useful reading.

 

[wdone]

thanks for reminding me! i borrowed that book from a class i took at NAMI for partners, and forgot i had!  i had hidden it so he wouldn't see it, but i just found it. i will read it today

do you think i was wrong? :/ i respect your advice

[MockingbirdHL]

wdone,

My dBPDh has had a FEW, and I stress, FEW, sessions with a psychiatrist which seemed to help.  He went voluntarily, he thought of the idea, he made the appointments and he went.  Of course after a while he decided to stop.

Our latest break, which I believe we may actually be still in the middle of, at least according to him, I stressed the importance of both he and I (together and/or separately) getting professional help to deal with this.  He, like yours, agreed.  He said he would call his P.  A couple of days later he volunteered to me that he had called but had to leave a voicemail.

That night I asked him about it and he said he hadn't heard back, but would call again the next day.

The next night I asked about it again and he said he forgot, but would call the next day.

The next day, I asked about it again in a very casual manner.  Result?  Silent treatment.

I wish he would go, I KNOW it will help.

[bruceli]

BPDw goes once a month religiously... .  HOWEVER... .  not to discuss issues with relationship, family, life... .  but that she is anxious and can't sleep.  She basically goes to get her Ambien refilled.  Not a mention of her behavior at home, etc... .  Hell... .  her Psych has'nt even mis-diagnosed her as Bi-polar.  She says he says she is... .  and get this... .  KINDA depressed so he gives her Ambien so she can sleep... .  

[wdone]

my bf's T has told him there is nothing wrong with him.  when i asked if he tells her what's going on for him, he says no. last time he saw his T, she told him to take "Insotol" ! UGH.

he agreed (last week) that he would tell the Dr. everything that's going on with him, and that he'd be honest.

now, i don't even know if he'll go.

 :'(

[bruceli]

my bf's T has told him there is nothing wrong with him.  when i asked if he tells her what's going on for him, he says no. last time he saw his T, she told him to take "Insotol" ! UGH.

he agreed (last week) that he would tell the Dr. everything that's going on with him, and that he'd be honest.

now, i don't even know if he'll go.

 :'(

Maybe an invitation to the T to spend some time with you all may help with the T's perception a little?  There was another post in the many on this board where one of the members said that their pwBPD's T said they did'nt have anything wrong with them to which the memeber said... .  come and spend a week in my house... .  Brought on a great feeling and smile to my face... .  

[wdone]

i actually gave him a list of things that might help for him to bring up the last time he went to his T, and we had an argument over that.  he did say he wanted to see it, and then he did bring it, and he said he shared it all with her and they talked about everything on the list.  he then jokingly said "yeah, maybe next time, you can come and sit with me so you can monitor the whole thing."  we laughed and i was just happy he took the list in. didn't help, though, as she suggested he take some herbal supplements.

he would never allow me to go with him... .  

but, when we were going to couples counseling, that was extremely helpful.

[byasliver]

my uBPDh is seeing three different therapists and attending a weekly support group - all at my (and the therapists' insistence and his protesting that he was fine. However, he is being treated through the VA as if he has PTSD. The symptoms they are seeing/treating are the same so I really don't care what they call it. BUT, those T's are very used to patients who are in denial about their symptoms and they can see through many of the smoke screens mentally ill people can throw up to try to hide their symptoms even from themselves. So, I think our situation is unique. With regular civilian therapists, I think my uBPDh could easily fool them into thinking he was fine and that, as he first believed, the problem was really me. They also weren't put off by his denial and actually just saw it as further indication of his issues.

It has been several months since he first saw a therapist and even with frequent appointments I am only just now starting to see some effects. It is a loong road. I think even if you could force him into treatment, unless you managed to find just the right therapist, it wouldn't do any good, and, in fact, could potentially make things worse.

Research the options in your area before you really consider making a decision.

[MockingbirdHL]

So after the silent treatment yesterday; which then resulted him in leaving AGAIN boiled over into him coming to the house, gathering most of his clothes and personal effects and withdrawing half the funds from our bank account and disappearing again. He told me he is opening his own account. I know he already did about two weeks ago. Now he thinks he's gotten away with that too.

I went to see his Psychiatrist / Therapist myself today to get some advice on how to handle this situation. She said she hadn't heard from him even though he said he'd called her. She said she would call him herself.

She did. I don't know if he made an appointment to see her or not. I hope so.

She said all I can do is be supportive. Be here when he needs me (if he needs me again). I've told him that. I've told him I'm here for him, that I love him, that I will stand by him.

Now I wait and see if he accepts that.

[patientandclear]

do you think i was wrong? :/ i respect your advice

WD -- sorry, we cross-posted; i hadn't seen yours about his text & your response when I posted about the Amador book.  Well ... . I am certain you did one thing right: burst out laughing when you saw his text!  That's the spirit.  Seriously, I'm really proud of you for having the presence of mind to see that that has nothing to do with you (and there is nothing you can do to prevent it).  And also -- that he is in a relationship.  And also -- that he will feel differently next week.

I think you've handled the past few weeks incredibly well, for what it's worth.  He's swinging around so wildly despite that you have been patient, validating, steady, calm, detached, affirming.  Please don't worry that his reactions are due to you somehow not managing the situation well.

I don't think you did anything wrong in your response, but I think it may prompt further dysregulation.  You spoke directly to his defense mechanisms and exposed the operation of the disorder.  That can be intolerable, in my experience (and from what I've heard from others).  As I think you've read here, when I did some similar warm and loving truth-telling with my exbf, he stopped communicating with me & I haven't heard from him in a couple of months now.  Was it bad?  No.  But was it something he could readily assimilated and deal with?  Apparently not.

But what you wrote your bf here may be something important he can reach back to and hold onto in the coming days.  So even if he isn't able to immediately process it in a positive way, I don't think it was bad to say "I'm sorry you're feeling this way, this is how it goes with you, you felt differently last week, you'll probably feel differently next week, and are you going to do something about it?"  That's a completely healthy response, and a reasonable question from a partner.  What he makes of it is unknowable.  You have to be content that what you did was fine, and you acted with love and integrity, and if he's away for a bit, he will come back, as you've experienced a million times by now.

Has he responded?

Back to your original question ... .  if I recall, a few times in the past your bf has actually asked you for ideas and help.  If he does again, I think it's great to actually have some helpful ideas.  I don't know that offering them when he is not asking is at all likely to result in any productive steps.

About how his T thinks there is nothing wrong ... .  is your only source on that, his reporting?  If so, I wouldn't put much stock in it.  But if it is true, it's just a reminder that BPD is a disorder of intimacy and can be so well-concealed in other contexts.

[almost789]

Just wanted to respond to your text response back from him. I think telling him you understand he feels this way and that you love him and showing concern about his appointment was all great and validating. Kudos. But, I would be carefull saying things like, "you won't feel this way next week" Maybe you know this to be true based on your history with him. But probably should rephrase that else he may feel he's not valid. Maybe you could say, do you think you will feel the same next week after you spend sometime by yourself? or something like that rather than telling him what he will feel.

[wdone]

thanks, good point... . i thought of this yesterday--that i should have phrased it as a question.

[wdone]

do you think i was wrong? :/ i respect your advice

WD -- sorry, we cross-posted; i hadn't seen yours about his text & your response when I posted about the Amador book.  Well ... . I am certain you did one thing right: burst out laughing when you saw his text!  That's the spirit.  Seriously, I'm really proud of you for having the presence of mind to see that that has nothing to do with you (and there is nothing you can do to prevent it).  And also -- that he is in a relationship.  And also -- that he will feel differently next week.

I think you've handled the past few weeks incredibly well, for what it's worth.  He's swinging around so wildly despite that you have been patient, validating, steady, calm, detached, affirming.  Please don't worry that his reactions are due to you somehow not managing the situation well.

I don't think you did anything wrong in your response, but I think it may prompt further dysregulation.  You spoke directly to his defense mechanisms and exposed the operation of the disorder.  That can be intolerable, in my experience (and from what I've heard from others).  As I think you've read here, when I did some similar warm and loving truth-telling with my exbf, he stopped communicating with me & I haven't heard from him in a couple of months now.  Was it bad?  No.  But was it something he could readily assimilated and deal with?  Apparently not.

But what you wrote your bf here may be something important he can reach back to and hold onto in the coming days.  So even if he isn't able to immediately process it in a positive way, I don't think it was bad to say "I'm sorry you're feeling this way, this is how it goes with you, you felt differently last week, you'll probably feel differently next week, and are you going to do something about it?"  That's a completely healthy response, and a reasonable question from a partner.  What he makes of it is unknowable.  You have to be content that what you did was fine, and you acted with love and integrity, and if he's away for a bit, he will come back, as you've experienced a million times by now.

Has he responded?

Back to your original question ... .  if I recall, a few times in the past your bf has actually asked you for ideas and help.  If he does again, I think it's great to actually have some helpful ideas.  I don't know that offering them when he is not asking is at all likely to result in any productive steps.

About how his T thinks there is nothing wrong ... .  is your only source on that, his reporting?  If so, I wouldn't put much stock in it.  But if it is true, it's just a reminder that BPD is a disorder of intimacy and can be so well-concealed in other contexts.

thanks so much... .

he has not responded.  and i always go through the doubt and the anxiety. to be honest, this time, i am having severe anxiety and insomnia.  i had been pretty calm and detached (and even able to laugh) but now i am feeling really, really concerned and afraid and doubtful.

i am having thoughts (as i have had before, but before they were fleeting) of "does he really not want to be with me? is it me? does he really not want to be in a relationship? has he really been "trying to get away from me" for 6 years?, is he really wanting to move HOME and would that be good for him?

round and round and THEN, thinking "we had such a beautiful time together and we laughed hystercially and he treated me like a princess on my birthday and he brought up moving back in again and he said he gets that it's all his trust and trauma issues and that it's not me, and that he thinks his dad may be bi-polar, and he agreed wholeheartedly to see a Dr. and that he might need meds, and he said how much he loves me and how comfortable he is with me, and i think about the last almost 6 years and how this IS the pattern. also, i think of how he has been aware how detrimental it would be if he moved back in with his parents who are abusive.

i was ok when i wasn't trying to figure out what it means. i was just telling myself this is the mental illness and i can't make sense of it. 

but, now, like i said, i am having such doubt. trying to tell myself it is just the crazy making that results from his disorder and the mixed messages... .

but, the last two nights, i have been up almost all night, waking up from horrible dreams (i remember hearing that when we are in relationship with someone with BPD, that we develop ptsd, that it's reoccurring trauma. not being a victim here, but just really FEELING that.)

it is much harder for me to detach, at least for today. thanks for the kind words about what a good job i've been doing. it helps.

i am at a loss at to what to do, what he really means, and i notice it is harder to smile, and get out of bed... .  (athough i am, and i am doing a lot to take care of me)... .  

i left him a voice mail last night, telling him i am at a loss again, as to how to respond to him when this comes up, and that i want to respect him, that i love him and miss him and wondered how he was feeling today... .  

i am really, really sad that he has gone again. i miss him so much.

need support. 

[patientandclear]

Of course you feel all those things.  It's completely normal.  And yes, no doubt, you have a genuine trauma reaction to the continued withdrawal of love and companionship that seems grounded in feelings that would mean it would not be withdrawn.  It becomes really hard to keep a grip on what is real when you are continuously living in both realities.

Your wise mind is right about this. It is not about you, it is not that he "really" has been trying to get away from you for 6 years any more than it is true that all is peaches and cream and his feelings are stable and unqualifiedly positive.

He both loves you and wants to be with you, and has a hard time continuously trusting you, and has powerful defense mechanisms that interrupt his attempts to be close.  It is all true.  And it is all going to continue to be true.

I hope it is reassuring to know that from this distance, there is no question that he will be back, this is not the time he is going to permanently move to his parents' any more than it was a few months back or a few years back.  The other ideas he has about how to feel better don't work either, you see -- he isn't going to stay gone any more than he is going to be able to stay with you without pushing away & disappearing.

You are doing great.  He isn't gone for good.  He mistrusts you but he wants to trust you.  Without some very specific skills, this as successful a r/s as he is going to be able to have.  He is very lucky to have you.

[wdone]

Of course you feel all those things.  It's completely normal.  And yes, no doubt, you have a genuine trauma reaction to the continued withdrawal of love and companionship that seems grounded in feelings that would mean it would not be withdrawn.  It becomes really hard to keep a grip on what is real when you are continuously living in both realities.

Your wise mind is right about this. It is not about you, it is not that he "really" has been trying to get away from you for 6 years any more than it is true that all is peaches and cream and his feelings are stable and unqualifiedly positive.

He both loves you and wants to be with you, and has a hard time continuously trusting you, and has powerful defense mechanisms that interrupt his attempts to be close.  It is all true.  And it is all going to continue to be true.

I hope it is reassuring to know that from this distance, there is no question that he will be back, this is not the time he is going to permanently move to his parents' any more than it was a few months back or a few years back.  The other ideas he has about how to feel better don't work either, you see -- he isn't going to stay gone any more than he is going to be able to stay with you without pushing away & disappearing.

You are doing great.  He isn't gone for good.  He mistrusts you but he wants to trust you.  Without some very specific skills, this as successful a r/s as he is going to be able to have.  He is very lucky to have you.

thank you. 

[wdone]

i'm not sure what to do. i'm having some intense anxiety.  i couldn't sleep again last night.  i think i have having some trauma come up  (from this relationship and from the past).  but, i still think my concerns are valid based on my bf's recent behavior and things he has said.

i did text my bf last night, and asked him if he was able, to please send me a text or give me a call just to let me know he's ok.  i told him i am focusing on myself and working on my side of the street, but that i am still affected by his distancing and would appreciate knowing he's ok as i can't help but caring and worrying.

no response.

normally he does respond to a text like this when i ask him to let me know he's safe.

this time feels more serious, and the more i try to relax and detach and ignore the fact that he's disappeared again, the less peaceful i feel.

he has talked about suicide several times recently and i am seriously worried. 

i am definitely being triggered by memories of my ex who died, when i "let go" and didn't respond to him reaching out to me (as i was trying to practice self care and he was drinking and cheating)... .  

i am considering either calling or texting my bf to let him know i am thinking about calling a friend of his as i am worried, or just calling a friend of his to see if they have seen him or talked to him... .  

i also thought about calling the crisis line to ask their opinion... .

i am worried about my bf getting angry, but i am almost more worried about him being dead or hurting himself than him being mad at me.

what do you think?

[almost789]

I think your having abandoment anxiety! Been there! Think about it, last he told you "he felt so much better not being in a relationship" Have you had any indications he is going to commit suicide, other then your own terror in your own mind. He's probably just fine. Feelings are not facts. Look at the facts. Unless you have some fact or indication he's going to do this you cannot just make that assumption and panic. Leave him be. Chasing after him will not bring him back to you. Sometimes BPD people do feel better when not in a relationship, just as suddenly to turn the table and "need" you its part of the push/pull dynamic. They can't find comfort either way.

[wdone]

I think your having abandoment anxiety! Been there! Think about it, last he told you "he felt so much better not being in a relationship" Have you had any indications he is going to commit suicide, other then your own terror in your own mind. He's probably just fine. Feelings are not facts. Look at the facts. Unless you have some fact or indication he's going to do this you cannot just make that assumption and panic. Leave him be. Chasing after him will not bring him back to you. Sometimes BPD people do feel better when not in a relationship, just as suddenly to turn the table and "need" you its part of the push/pull dynamic. They can't find comfort either way.

i agree with you that i am having anxiety and abandonment issues are up from my ex killing himself. 

yes, i have had a lot of indications he may kill himself.  he told me he wrote a suicide note. he has threatened to do it more recently, he is isolating (another symptom). having been a counselor, i know that it gets more serious if someone has a note, a plan, gives things away, etc. 

[almost789]

He wrote a suicide note?

[almost789]

If thats the case then please contact a local suicide hotline... .  

[wdone]

he wrote a suicide note about 3 weeks ago, and he was really out of it.

--he came to my house and stayed with me for a while. (5 or 6 days) and said he felt much better.

after that,  when i went to leave for the airport for a trip, he said he may not be here when i got back as he may kill himself.  when i texted him from my trip, and asked him if he was ok and told him i was worried he may hurt himself, he texted and did call me, and although he was anxious, he sounded more aware of his process.

when i got back, he picked me up from the airport, and we had a good few days together... .   he dysregulated on sun, got very anxious and dropped me off and said he had to take a drive, and then texted me 2 hours later that he "was better now."  asked me to meet him, and i did and he got the deer in the headlights look.

we went to get something to eat,  and he did say at that time (after lots of panic and talk that didn't make a lot of sense)

"i guess i will have to call a doctor. that's the only thing i haven't tried"

then he immediately got all agitated and stood up (we were in public eating) and started to raise his voice, saying "i don't want to do this. i can't do this. i can't do any of this. i don't know what's going on or who to trust. i don't know what to do." and took off across the parking lot--that was the last time i saw him.


then, i got the text, saying he "felt better now that he wasn't in a relationship."

writing it out does help me to see that because his issues were brought to light and we/he was talking about a solution (dr), he got triggered into reality and it was too much for him, and i represent reality (he has said this), and i think he may have shoved it back down and went into denial. i was just reading about how they do this when people with a mental illness can't bear to accept that they have a mental illness.

hopefully, he is in "denial" and not hurting himself or planning to, but on the other hand, he has told me he has gotten mad at me before when i have tried to get him to get help, but then he has listened and gone to get help anyway i.e. when he got into therapy a while ago.

so, i have no idea if he is still spinning out, or if he called the dr., or if he went into denial.

i am not in a great place.  thanks for responses.

[wdone]

have you (anyone) ever called one of your SO's friends when you have been worried your SO would hurt him or herself?  have you called for a welfare check? have you had him or her put on a court ordered hold? what was your SO's response?

[patientandclear]

WD, from where I sit, there's no need to be especially concerned about him.  Earlier this year when he disappeared for 6+ weeks (right?) he told you to get rid of his stuff, that he wouldn't need it anymore, etc.  Also, he talked about suicide when you were going on the trip but you still went and he was able to self-soothe and talk himself down to the point where he could come get you as planned.  He sounds a little more functional than has been the case at times in the past, actually.

I know it's not as you'd like it to be but it seems to me you've done all you can do.  I think it's fine to ask a mutual friend if he's OK.  Beyond that -- I don't think this sounds more worrisome than many other times.  I'm sorry you are feeling so very anxious.  I think the accumulation of the peaks and valleys is probably taking its toll on you in a very PTSD-ish way.

P&C

[wdone]

thank you... .  yes, i think the ptsd from the ups and downs is catching up with me, and having lost others recently and in the past... .  very difficult right now. i also think, because we have been so close and things have seemed to be going so well, and such progress, that this threw me off more than in the past.

i have to let go.  i keep telling myself that if he did or does kill himself, i am powerless.  (then, i immediately go into thinking i could have or should call for a welfare check).  then, i go back to breathing and reading and trying to nap and drinking tea. 

i talked to a good friend who met him once, and she is very concerned now as well.

at her advice, i did text him to let him know that *i* was feeling scared due to the past, and wasn't sure what to do because he has not responded. 

my friend thinks i should call for a check if he doesn't respond in an hour or two. 

i have a big work thing to show up for tomorrow, and i am getting so frustrated with myself. i really need to nap, and relax and be in a good space tomorrow.  doing my best considering the situation.

thanks again... .  

[patientandclear]

Re-read my post and I'm concerned it sounded a bit dismissive of your concerns.  I totally get WHY you are concerned ... .  if I were you I too would be concerned ... .  and I think your PTSD-ish reactions to the wild swings in intimacy and distance are completely normal and I would be right where you are.

I'm just trying to say that from the different perspective that one can have when not personally involved, this doesn't sound worse than or even as bad as some other instances when he's vanished after implying he might kill himself, or never see you again, or move away.  I also realize all we know is what you've shared here, and your reaction may come from some subtle cues and information we just don't have.  But for what it's worth, from what you've shared, it doesn't seem more dire than other instances you've weathered.

[wdone]

Re-read my post and I'm concerned it sounded a bit dismissive of your concerns.  I totally get WHY you are concerned ... .  if I were you I too would be concerned ... .  and I think your PTSD-ish reactions to the wild swings in intimacy and distance are completely normal and I would be right where you are.

I'm just trying to say that from the different perspective that one can have when not personally involved, this doesn't sound worse than or even as bad as some other instances when he's vanished after implying he might kill himself, or never see you again, or move away.  I also realize all we know is what you've shared here, and your reaction may come from some subtle cues and information we just don't have.  But for what it's worth, from what you've shared, it doesn't seem more dire than other instances you've weathered.

oh, thank you, no--i didn't take your post as dismissive.

i think i am more concerned this time as he wrote a suicide note. that is the big difference from all the other times. unless i am forgetting and he has written one before, which is very possible. bad memory. 

your post helped in some ways... . to make me feel like this is no different and that maybe he's fine.

but i am still concerned because of my psych background and the note... .  

[wdone]

also, someone i am close to lost her brother to suicide and was recently telling me all about it, and telling me i really need to make him get help before it's too late,  and then a few nights ago, i shared at a 12 step group my concerns, and 2 people shared how they had lost people to suicide. it just feels real right now, i guess... .  

[almost789]

I really know how you feel because when my person with BPD goes silent for a long time I really have no idea whats going on, he moved away as well. Not voluntarily, he was forced to for work but since he moved it's not like I can "check" on him or anything. At this point I realize that there is NOTHING I can do and so I don't allow myself to panic because that can be a never ending battle. He has NEVER made any statements of the like so that helps, but I wonder when the silence lasts so long sometimes it pops into my head. I personally can not stand people who threaten suicide, I just can't stand it. One because I am powerless over that if they chose to do this and two I see it as pathetically week and it disgusts me. (although I guess I can understand the pain some people are in that they feel the need to do that) My mother tried to commit suicide IN FRONT OF ME when she was drunk and  I had to stop her. So, that's why it bothers me so much and I see it as pathetically week. Because shes was pathetically week and constantly threatened suicide I believe now for attention. But it would terrify me and that is why I honestly can't stand it. If someone says they are going to kill themselves now I almost say to myself GO AHEAD, don't threaten me with that hit! Its a form of control, someone who always threatens that and never does it, they are playing with your emotions.