Is success possible?

[Depression = 72% of members]

 

Just because you ask yourself these questions doesn't necessarily mean the relationship 'is doomed' or anything like that.

What I do think, though, is that a re-examination of what you need, want, and desire out of yourself, him, and the relationship may not be a bad thing - a 'reality check' of sorts and to make sure YOUR needs are being met, too (you're important!) - in light of his sudden packing up and upping and leaving and other related actions.

I HAVE had a relationship with someone who was BPD and though we had some bad times for sure, it was also a successful relationship during the time it was going on which is why I DO believe that these relationships can work out... .  but with a lot of work and understanding and accepting.

Regardless of what happens, we just want you to be healthy and happy in your choices and YES, it is possible to 'stay'.

EDIT:  A marriage is a stronger and tighter committment than just 'being steady' or something similar.  To us, reasonably, it would be expected that we would try harder.

But people with BPD can be triggered by commitment issues because they can stir up old unresolved trauma related to the origins of their attachment disorder and the consequential emotional dysregulation that happens accordingly.

The closer the relationship is, the 'worse' the symptoms of BPD can be because BPD's origins are in the realm of attachment disorders and dysfunctions.

Some people may PULL - cling and shower you with communication every thirty minutes to reassure themselves that you won't leave (I'm not joking; this is what my former friend did)... .  but others may PUSH - push you away or simply leave because if they leave first, they aren't the ones who have the potential of 'being abandoned' and it also allows them to retreat back into a state of not having to confront their BPD-related issues.

It may not make sense to us, but BPD IS about disorderly thought and dysregulated emotions so a BPD person's reactions and actions may not make 'logical/reasonable' sense to people whose thought patterns and emotional stability are more... .  well... .  stable.

[Iced]

 

Just because you ask yourself these questions doesn't necessarily mean the relationship 'is doomed' or anything like that.

What I do think, though, is that a re-examination of what you need, want, and desire out of yourself, him, and the relationship may not be a bad thing - a 'reality check' of sorts and to make sure YOUR needs are being met, too (you're important!) - in light of his sudden packing up and upping and leaving and other related actions.

I HAVE had a relationship with someone who was BPD and though we had some bad times for sure, it was also a successful relationship during the time it was going on which is why I DO believe that these relationships can work out... .  but with a lot of work and understanding and accepting.

Regardless of what happens, we just want you to be healthy and happy in your choices and YES, it is possible to 'stay'.

EDIT:  A marriage is a stronger and tighter committment than just 'being steady' or something similar.  To us, reasonably, it would be expected that we would try harder.

But people with BPD can be triggered by commitment issues because they can stir up old unresolved trauma related to the origins of their attachment disorder and the consequential emotional dysregulation that happens accordingly.

The closer the relationship is, the 'worse' the symptoms of BPD can be because BPD's origins are in the realm of attachment disorders and dysfunctions.

Some people may PULL - cling and shower you with communication every thirty minutes to reassure themselves that you won't leave (I'm not joking; this is what my former friend did)... .  but others may PUSH - push you away or simply leave because if they leave first, they aren't the ones who have the potential of 'being abandoned' and it also allows them to retreat back into a state of not having to confront their BPD-related issues.

It may not make sense to us, but BPD IS about disorderly thought and dysregulated emotions so a BPD person's reactions and actions may not make 'logical/reasonable' sense to people whose thought patterns and emotional stability are more... .  well... .  stable.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MockingbirdHL]

Iced and Phoebe - thanks for your replies. I'm having a hard time today.

I believe I know what I have to do, what I have to work on if he returns.

If he's back to being rational, he will understand his part too.

I haven't spoken to the T again since yesterday. She did tell me she spoke to him on the phone and he was considering letting her meet his D13.

I did tell her when I saw her if maybe he returned to me too early in his cycle. I've seen that before, he went from anger to depression back to anger. Last time it took about six weeks for the anger to surface again. This time it took 24 hours.

His cycles are usually either very short (hour to hour) or very long (weeks/weeks). This one has been different. Weeks of anger, a few days of depression, sudden shift back to anger.  Going backwards instead of forwards.

Unfortunately my entire family is on the other side of the world with a 15 hour time difference.  My friends have been great; but I know they're so tired of hearing this same old story from me. But they're supportive. I just hate to burden them. And they don't quite get it like the people on here.

[waverider]

Im always afraid that if I am not there to remind him of our commitment, he will easily forget it, or convince himself he is better off without it.

The thing is this is our our problem and our issue, we are projecting our fears onto them. This can lead to the very "controlling" actions that they are already sensitive tp. We cannot control the 'what ifs" in their lives

[MockingbirdHL]

Im always afraid that if I am not there to remind him of our commitment, he will easily forget it, or convince himself he is better off without it.

The thing is this is our our problem and our issue, we are projecting our fears onto them. This can lead to the very "controlling" actions that they are already sensitive tp. We cannot control the 'what ifs" in their lives

Wave rider, you're so right. This is what I would want him to do if the situation were reversed. I would want him to reassure me that's he's still there and committed. That would make me feel better.

Just like we but gifts WE would like for people we don't really know, but we buy gifts for our best friend that we might hate to receive but we know they would love. I'm drawn to doing what I know will work for me, because I'm not confident anymore in what works for him.

Three weeks ago it was don't call me. I didn't. He was glad I didn't.

The next week it seemed he was disappointed that I hadn't texted him to tell him something about a family event (my family; overseas). I said but you told me not to call or contact you remember?  He said no I didn't. But he did.

It's just that he was ANGRY the first week and DEPRESSED the second. Now he's back to angry again so maybe it's better for me to keep my mouth shut.

[arabella]

 

I've been right in the awful spot you're in now. It sucks. Big time. I spent days crying and posting on these boards and hyperventilating and crying some more. Wretched. So I understand and I'm so sorry that you're going through this!

I'm married too. It didn't stop him from leaving. It DID stop him from running out on financial commitments and gave me reassurance that he couldn't simply walk away with everything or leave me without having to spend some time and energy untangling our affairs. So basically it bought me time and some financial security. Really it's the same with any r/s - marriage is only as binding as each person in it and either of them can walk away any time. The key for me was the time thing - I know that he dissociates, and I know he'll come back, but there needs to be enough time for that to happen. The waiting is the hardest part.

I chose to remain on the "staying" board because I felt that it represented where I was at. Why rush to make a decision about what his leaving means? He's a mess. He probably doesn't even know what he wants. Cut yourself some slack. If at some point you realize that you have to move on, then so be it. No point in forcing the issue - you'll just feel worse. Do what you want to do right now, don't try to predict the future.

[waverider]

Why rush to make a decision about what his leaving means? He's a mess. He probably doesn't even know what he wants. Cut yourself some slack. If at some point you realize that you have to move on, then so be it. No point in forcing the issue - you'll just feel worse. Do what you want to do right now, don't try to predict the future.

This is important, everything to do with BPD is slow and ponderous, with much ebb and flow and little consistency. I have found that letting things play out is usually the best way to go. Often things dont work out as serious as the initial drama might suggest. Jumping to conclusions or trying to pro actively steer things only causes more turbulence and confuses the issue.

Living in limbo like that is very difficult though, and is when you need to be able to block "their stuff" and draw on your inner self to keep focused on "your stuff". I guess its all to do with codependency and enmeshment issues.

Luckily I am past that stage and if my partner were to go off on a self absorbed navel gazing break, I would probably take it as a chance to gain some respite, recenter and pull my stuff back to where it should be. wasn't always like that though, so I do know where you are coming from.

My partner is currently also battling with advanced breast cancer on top of everything else, so the stark reality of her not being here in the future is something that I have to seriously contemplate. I have to survive, be prepared and stay stable no matter what the future brings.

[MockingbirdHL]

Arabella,  if its not too much information, I'd be curious how you handled your H moving out?  Did he say I'm leaving!  Or did he say I need to get away, I'll be back ... .  Or was it something in between?

Here's where I am on the whole situation right now:

1. I am hurt, terribly, severely hurt

2. I am trying to stay positive and tell myself this is the illness, the disorder, it's not really about me. Trying to keep believing that deep down he still loves me and wants to be with me.

3. If he shows up to move stuff out of our house, I guess there is nothing I can go to stop it. I doubt he has the guts to do that in my presence though. Probably while I am at work.

4. If he tells me he wants a divorce (again) I will not grant him one. Why?  First and foremost I do not want a divorce, I won't give up on this marriage without trying! And secondly, he is not in his right mind right now. I have to be the sensible one right now.

I want to believe MORE THAN ANYTHING that he will come back around to me. God I wish there was someone who could put my mind at rest about that. It's the not knowing that's killing me.

[arabella]

Arabella,  if its not too much information, I'd be curious how you handled your H moving out?  Did he say I'm leaving!  Or did he say I need to get away, I'll be back ... .  Or was it something in between?

Here's where I am on the whole situation right now:

1. I am hurt, terribly, severely hurt

2. I am trying to stay positive and tell myself this is the illness, the disorder, it's not really about me. Trying to keep believing that deep down he still loves me and wants to be with me.

3. If he shows up to move stuff out of our house, I guess there is nothing I can go to stop it. I doubt he has the guts to do that in my presence though. Probably while I am at work.

4. If he tells me he wants a divorce (again) I will not grant him one. Why?  First and foremost I do not want a divorce, I won't give up on this marriage without trying! And secondly, he is not in his right mind right now. I have to be the sensible one right now.

I want to believe MORE THAN ANYTHING that he will come back around to me. God I wish there was someone who could put my mind at rest about that. It's the not knowing that's killing me.

I think I ranted and raved about all of this on the boards already - so definitely not too much to ask for more info!

He said he was leaving. It would never work out. We needed to get a divorce. He loved me but wasn't "in love" with me anymore. I should move on. It was hopeless. We'd been in a downward spiral for at least 2 years (that was news to me). It was too late to get marriage counselling. He couldn't stand being around me any longer, etc. It was pretty extreme.

1. Yes. Me too.

2. Yes. Me too.

3. I was there when he moved his stuff out. But he was actually starting to come back around by the time the actual moving part came to be.

4. I figured if he wanted a divorce so badly he could go file the paperwork, hire a lawyer, etc. and then serve me. Why should I do the work? Besides, all of that would take time and he'd probably change his mind by then anyway. Or, if he went through with it, at least I wouldn't feel like I was the one who gave up.

Agreed - the not knowing is the worst! I'm so sorry.

[MockingbirdHL]

Arabella, thanks for replying. Two weeks ago my H said he thinks he wants a divorce. He was second-guessing that decision within hours after we talked. Last week he didn't. He hasn't told me he does again; I guess I'm taking the leaving, the withdrawing half our bank accounts and the changing his address on everything as it.

He has been saying:

I don't know what to do anymore

I can't put myself and you and the girls through this anymore

I don't know (think?) our love is enough to get us through this

Etc

And now nothing.

I did ping him last night. He read the text but did not respond. I didn't expect a response. I was hoping, but not expecting.

[arabella]

Ugh. It all sounds so horribly familiar! You probably don't want to hear this but, without medication, it seems (in my limited experience) to take my H about 7 months to go through a full dissociative cycle (with ups/downs throughout). It's a bit shorter for me because I don't notice it right away, so the first two months or so go by with my just thinking he's a little 'off' or cranky or depressed. The next 4-5 are pure hell. A very short taper to normalcy toward the end. Then I get to try to put it all back together again while he tries to grapple with his emotions in the aftermath.

I'd take no response as a positive. He didn't tell you to stop texting - that's pretty good (sadly)!

[MockingbirdHL]

If you'd asked me three weeks ago how long this cycle was, I would have said three weeks.

But my H mentioned several times when we were actually talking that he had been putting himself through hell for five/six months. We had an explosion in December. Another at the end of January/start of February and then this one which started late April.  I used to see them as separate events - because everything was (seemed) good in between!  Now I need to realize it may be one long drawn out cycle. 

Looking back, the other REALLY bad one was late January/ start February through June.  Again at the time I thought it was several in that time period, but perhaps not.

I did take the fact that he read the text and didn't respond negatively as a positive ... .  At least the best positive I can hope for right now.  Although his fingers still work, wish he would have texted back ... .  

Haven't had any contact since I sent that text. Pretty sure he spent the day with his D13 who he hasn't seen in about three or four weeks.  I wouldn't have denied him that; just wish he was in a place to include me as his perception of my relationship with her is his BIGGEST issue.

[MockingbirdHL]

Small glimmer of hope:

Just received this text from dBPDh: when I spoke to Dr. T she told me I was reacting strictly on emotion. I believe that she was right and I'm coming off that emotional rush now. Just wanted to let you know.

I replied: thats good to hear. I'm here whenever you're ready to talk.

He replied: thanks.

This makes me feel relieved. I'm not going to push. He has to go out of town tomorrow through Tuesday so that will give him a few more days to clear his mind. 

[arabella]

  Really great that he has a T he listens to. Just hang in there (I know it's hard)!

Interesting that both his really bad cycles, assuming you lump them into longer periods rather than the shorter bursts, both started the same time of year too. The two I've gone through with my H both started in December, became very apparent to me around February, and then lasted the first time until July, this time until May (but this time he got medication). My H has SAD (usually mild), but I think it's enough to push him over the edge when other factors build up - perhaps it could be similar for yours? We're thinking one of those special therapy lights might help in the future, is that something your husband could maybe utilize?

[waverider]

re object consistency. Often if you give them a physical object that will obviously remind them and you. They can hold it and reconnect if they feel the need.

[MockingbirdHL]

Arabella - yes, there is definitely a pattern there. I think it's holidays / important dates that remind him that his brother and mother are still gone. Christmas is always a nightmare. His birthday is the first week of February. His brother committed suicide in March.  Now we have out wedding anniversary in April. Followed by Mothers Day in May and his brothers birthday in June.   

I can pretty much count on any big day, for him or me or my D10, being compromised or completely ruined.

WaveRider - I like that idea. Reminds me of when my D10 was little and used to go to visit relatives out of state ... .  She'd take a tshirt of mine to sleep in.   

[MaybeSo]

Just wanted to say I see the same exact patterns with ex.

He always feels differently later and seeks me out.

We are not married, but were engaged and lived together; now I have my own place.

One wrinkle in my situation; when he flips out and feels bad, in his mind, it's cause I'm not the right partner afterall, and if I'm not the right one, then someone else is. He can't be alone, and so the fantasy of the perfect love that's out there somewhere, takes center stage.

He is in that head space right now.

If the six year pattern continues, he may date, eventually feel differently, and want nothing

more than to come back to me and us.

If he just did his own thing until he felt better, it would still be hard... .  but do-able... .  but if it

means involving others every single time he panics, that makes things a bit more untenable.

In the Past I would break ties with him, completely... .  when he would do this pull away. This

probably contributed to abandonment panic and his need to date and act on finding another

Ms.right quickly. I'm not cutting off all ties with him this time; so, I'm curious to see if he

still acts out his need to actually find Ms. Right or if he can just be away until he feels better

again.

In the past, when he feels better, he can see the folly of his pattern, but when in it he

doesn't see it that way,  or views me as the problem or our relationship as the problem.

I'm not emotionally attached to either outcome right now (thank god)... .  But it's the first time I've handled this differently, and I'm curious how it will turn out.

[MockingbirdHL]

Maybe so - I wish I wasn't emotionally attached to the outcome, but I am, DEEPLY DEEPLY DERPLY attached.

As far as I know there's never been someone else when we've broken up in the past. I don't think there is now. I hope not. I couldn't stand that thought.

It's just so tiring being the one giving giving giving and getting nothing in return. But I know that's the way it's always going to be when he's dysregulated. I feel like I do get something in return when he's not, but now I need to learn to trust it (if I get the chance).

[MaybeSo]

My ex has been in therapy for about 8 years.

The push pull so far seems to be the same.

I don't give give give with nothing in return.

That is a recipe for resentment; I make sure my life is full, irrespective of his comings and goings. But it took 6 years to gain that level of... .  acceptance.

He does nothing to prevent me from seeking my own happiness; other than to be someone who doesn't stay put.

He offers a lot, is generous,  and is good company.

I was just watching the movie Out of Africa today. Robert Redfords character comes and goes, and refuses to marry or embark on a traditional relationship. Meryl Streeps character is always jockeying for some sense of security from him, and hates his comings and goings.  And she eventually ends the romance because he won't comply with her requests.  Its an all too familiar story.

I'm glad your husband is seeing a therapist, that's a good thing.

[patientandclear]

MaybeSo, I've thought of Out of Africa so MANY times in recent months, about the Redford character and his departures and returns.  I just couldn't recall how she dealt with it & how it all turned out.  Bummer.  I think what makes BPD even harder though is that RR never told Meryl he was all about them staying together, that them staying together was the most important thing in his life, nothing had ever been so important.  (At least I'm thinking he didn't.)  It's the RR act combined with the residual disbelief that the person who pulls you so close and gets panicky that you are leaving, actually can also need so much space.  Right?  It's the continual mixed messages that make acceptance even more challenging than with your ordinary free spirit adventurer rake. 

[MaybeSo]

Hi P&c,

I love Out Of Africa, gorgeous music and cimemtography. Good story, too.

They don't show the RR character making a lot of false or unrealistic (grandiose) proclamations. My ex has stopped doing that, too. In that respect I think he is maturing.

The RR character does however sweep in with a huge presence, they obviously enjoy eachother physically, intellectually, spiritually.

In a scene where Meryle Streep pushes the marriage issue... .  he responds... .  "I'd mate for life, one day at a time."

She also asserts that when he goes away, it's not always for Safari, it's just that he needs to be away (from her). He is honest and says yes, it's true. It's not meant to hurt her... .  

I have watched the movie and totally resonated with the Streep character, and I also get his point of view, too.

It's a really good movie.