Navigating the T relationship

[Claire]

Hey all,

So this is my ~4th week of counseling. I had some very specific goals going in that I would like to accomplish this summer before starting grad school in August. Basically, I want to get my relationship with my uBPDm as functional as possible (from my side at least) so that I can focus on my school/career come fall instead of focusing as much time and energy on her.

Well the first few weeks went well. Clearly defined goal. Start giving some examples of situations with mom. It felt really good to just talk about things in a setting where I don't have to worry about overwhelming the person I'm talking to. I felt confident and articulate. I felt heard and affirmed (couldn't believe how validating it was just to hear her say things like "well you certainly have a difficult situation... .  "

And then today hit. She challenged me to create a certain boundary in a situation with my mom. To call, state my opinion, no need to explain too much. Just say "I don't want to hit_".  I started coming up with all these excuses why I couldn't do that! And I got all philosophical and we ended up spending the rest of the time discussing how I can know for sure that this is an okay action to take, or what role "obligation" plays in any family relationship.

Afterward, I realized that I was kind of stalling, and the real issue is that I really don't trust her. Which isn't surprising considering how much my parents conditioned me not to trust anyone except them.  On one hand, I wouldn't have started counseling unless I trusted the process/person, but on the other, when it comes down to it I have trouble trusting anything that goes against what my mom wants.

Not to mention, the T has shared tidbits about her own life growing up with a mentally ill mother. I know she's doing this to make me know I'm not alone, etc. But instead it makes me feel awful about myself because it seems like she has had a worse situation, and was in a better place with dealing with it at my age... .  ugh.

I should also mention that relationship skills and communication are not my strong points. So I'm feeling really confused and tentative and scared and suspicious of this counselor.  I know it's all me. She's fine, I'm not. That's why I'm in counseling!

How much of this is appropriate to share with her next week? I'm thinking I should mention having trouble trusting people in general. I just feel a lot of pressure (from myself) to not mess up this relationship otherwise I won't get the help I need.  I guess a therapy relationship is probably one of the safest, healthiest places for someone like me who has literally no clue how to be safe and healthy in a relationship... .  

Sorry this post was long and rambling. In a nutshell: Since I've grown up with unhealthy relationships and feel basically clueless about how to relate to people, and since counseling involves relationship at some level, how in the world is that supposed to work? Anyone else have an experience where the relationship seemed to get in the way of the counseling? Does it get better with time? How honest should I be with her about what I'm thinking and feeling?

[GeekyGirl]

It's so important that you feel comfortable being open with your T.

Afterward, I realized that I was kind of stalling, and the real issue is that I really don't trust her.

That's huge. I can see where you're coming from when you say that you have a hard time trusting people, but at the same time, you should feel safe in therapy. Is it the personal information she's shared with you that makes you unsure of her trustworthiness? What do you think would happen if you did open up to her?

Finding a good T can feel like dating. Sometimes you might feel more comfortable with one T than another, which doesn't mean that the one you don't click with isn't a good T--it just means that the chemistry isn't right.

How honest should I be with her about what I'm thinking and feeling?

I think honesty is appropriate, but how much you tell her is up to you. If you want to continue working with her, it might be worth sharing this with her--there might be something she can change to make you more comfortable. You could say something like, "I have a really hard time trusting and opening up to people. In fact, it's hard for me to share this with you," and hopefully she'll dive into it with you. If you think that this just isn't a good match, whether or not you open up to her is your call.

[Claire]

Thanks GeekyGirl. No I don't think there is any "data" to support her being untrustworthy. In fact, I feel very comfortable talking with her, and I want to trust her. I am just not apparently able to... .  yet.

With more thinking last night, I realized that trust is a gamble. People are so unsafe. Yet, there are safe people out there that are worthy of trust. With this T, I can't guarantee everything will be okay. I'm going to just have to try it. If it doesn't work out I can leave and find another one.  For now, I think the odds are pretty good that it will do more help than hurt.

[nomom4me]

Your T talking about her own mother, especially when you have only had a few sessions is a  to me.  I had a therapist who told me way too much about his personal life, and it took some time to get a better fit but now I have a therapist who never talks about her own family, relationships, etc.  It's possible she mentioned her own mother to gain trust or inform you that she has experience with difficult mothers, if you like her otherwise maybe re-state goals in your next session.

Therapy is a commitment, but it's also a service we (or our insurance) pays for.  I didn't initially want to switch because I had put in the footwork with the first therapist but I'm so glad I did.  If you didn't like how someone cut your hair, or had an odd interaction with a hair stylist - would you go back?  Therapy requires more training than hair styling, but it's still an optional service and as clients we have the right to see who we like and get the best results from.

[skelly_bean]

Claire,

I had a similar approach to therapy. I was basically like: OK here we go, gonna address all the major issues hit the major points, be fixed and DONE. :D

Anyways, 8 months later I kept telling my therapist that I felt like I wasn't getting up on my feet fast enough. That I should just be over my issues. She asked me why I wanted therapy to be over so quickly, and I said "so I can start my life, and be financially stable" (I am working part time and going to school part time, I would be taking more classes but I need the therapy.)

She said if stability is the issue, then the time spent in therapy is the best investment I can make. And I realized that she is right, the more time I spend grieving and learning coping mechanisms the safer I will be in the future - the more resilient I will be.

My experience has been that therapy takes time and it takes lots and lots of patience and compassion for yourself. If you don't trust your therapist yet, that's totally normal and OK. I clicked with my therapist, but I still don't fully trust her. It is scary to share your feelings with a stranger! Just because they have a degree in psychology doesn't make them implicitly trustworthy.

Your therapist should create an environment of safety, and it may take many sessions where you test the water to see if she's worthy of trust.

One of the scariest things I told my therapist was that I was afraid of women. In fact, not only am I afraid of women - I feel *creepy*. My boyfriend laughs when I say I feel creepy because I'm basically a small cute person and most people can't take me seriously, much less feel scared by me. But the truth is when I was around women - including my female therapist - I felt shameful or creepy or weird. I went through some sexual abuse so it is tied into that.

But basically, my therapist asked me if I had trouble trusting her because I find it tough to maintain eye contact. And I had to tell her that I felt like she thought I was creepy. She told me that she's never found me creepy, and even though rationally I knew it to be true before I mentioned it, that "damaged goods" emotional side in me felt reassured and I felt I could trust her more.

LONG STORY SHORT:

It has taken me a long time to feel comfortable sharing my thoughts to my therapist. Trust takes time, don't force it, allow yourself to share your thoughts and feelings at a pace that is right for you.

I would bring it up with her, because even if it feels awkward at first, she will understand you better and if she is a good therapist she will make an effort to find ways to establish trust.

LASTLY, (haha sorry this is the longest reply ever) my therapist was abused as well and when she shares stories I immediately feel that I shouldn't tell my story because it seems less bad so I definitely relate to you on this level. However, reading your fears here makes me realize that it's not a contest - your therapist will not judge the severity of your abuse against hers. She's there to listen, and to be compassionate and to help you reframe things.

K DONE. Hope you made it through all that. 

[Claire]

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience, skelly_bean. Thanks for all of it! Seriously, I really appreciate you thinking through all of that because it was one of the most helpful replies I've received on here to date  .

She said if stability is the issue, then the time spent in therapy is the best investment I can make. And I realized that she is right, the more time I spend grieving and learning coping mechanisms the safer I will be in the future - the more resilient I will be.

VERY good point... .  It's only the beginning. I need to give it some time. I think it's going to be good if I can stick it through.

LASTLY, (haha sorry this is the longest reply ever) my therapist was abused as well and when she shares stories I immediately feel that I shouldn't tell my story because it seems less bad so I definitely relate to you on this level. However, reading your fears here makes me realize that it's not a contest - your therapist will not judge the severity of your abuse against hers. She's there to listen, and to be compassionate and to help you reframe things.

I have been feeling so alone in this... .  seriously, what is up with the comparison? I've been feeling guilty lately because someone who was very supportive of me during a difficult time in my life, I just found out her life story and I'd say hers is worse than mine. So now I feel guilty for whatever she gave to me, as if I should have been supporting her (even though obviously she is in a good place emotionally to be giving to me, I'm substantially younger than her, etc.). Anyway, it's quite confusing. Why do you think we do this to ourselves? For me, I think as I've worked so hard the past few years to understand BPD and my life growing up, some of my identity has gotten wrapped up in all of this. So it's almost hard to let go and be free (and even get better at times... .  ) Also, one of my greatest longings is for sympathy (def. goes back to childhood needs for comfort). And, as I mentioned before, sometimes I feel like my life is a mess disproportionately to what I've been through.  Like people in war-torn areas of the world go through so much mental/physical/emotional anguish and have this strong spirit. And me, yeah I have stuff, but sometimes I am so crippled at life. Anyway... .  kind of off topic but quite interesting... .  

[ScarletOlive]

Hi Claire,

I can understand being untrusting. It's hard to build up trust after our trust has been shaken so deeply. Certainly talk about these feelings with your T, if you feel comfortable doing that. Finding trust and caring and listening from another person is a wonderful thing. Sometimes counselors bring up their own childhood because they think it will help us to trust them, since they can empathize with us.

Also, please don't doubt your experience. All abuse is bad. We can always find someone faster than us or better than us at chess but that doesn't change the fact that we're really fast and quite good at chess. Similarly, we can always find someone who had it worse than us, but that doesn't mean that our experience wasn't bad. I'm sorry for what you went through and hope you can find healing and peace in it. I hope you can be really proud of yourself for seeking healing. Also, have you checked out the Survivor's Guide on the sidebar? It's really helpful too.

[CBoo]

Hey Claire

You're doing great 

I entered therapy with similar intentions and years later I still go from time to time!

Totally understand your worry about comparison, but (as above) don't doubt your experience. You are ok as you are - you just need the support to make the changes you need.  Be kind to yourself - if you had a niece who felt like you do what would you say? Doubting your validity is a key part of what many of us experience I think.

My father was by turn delightful and abusive. That actually makes growing up with it (and the therapy) more difficult. If they were just horrible we'd adjust better. This in no way excuses abusive behaviour or its impact.

Therapist wise - it's difficult to comment without knowing what type of therapy you're having. It's ok to clarify the process with them though - feedback, ask questions, challenge as you wish. It's your space.

Be kind to yourself, know that you will improve and remember to enjoy your life.

My twopennyworth

[skelly_bean]

Why do you think we do this to ourselves? For me, I think as I've worked so hard the past few years to understand BPD and my life growing up, some of my identity has gotten wrapped up in all of this. So it's almost hard to let go and be free (and even get better at times... .  ) Also, one of my greatest longings is for sympathy (def. goes back to childhood needs for comfort). And, as I mentioned before, sometimes I feel like my life is a mess disproportionately to what I've been through.

Wow, I really have felt the same things. ScarletOlive is right, severity of abuse doesn't change the fact that is abuse. Comparison of abuse situations is very common I think. The trouble is that there is no 'ruler' for levels of abuse. Some abuse is more spectacular and physical, and some of it emotional and VERY hard to see if you are not directly involved in the situation. Physical abuse is something you can point a finger at and say "This was 100% wrong. They hit me here, and here and it hurt." Mental, emotional abuse is far harder to point a finger at. You can't measure it in scars, you just carry the hurt inside.

The result is that when you are abused, you have healing to do. And you deserve to heal.

I also think you may learn that downplaying our abuse is a way of invalidating our experience and denying its seriousness. It doesn't matter if your mom never yelled or hit you, or if she never called you names, abuse doesn't come in one form. The one common thing about is abuse is that when you experience it, it stays with you. It is abuse because it hampers our quality of life. We can't forget the memories because our bodies/brains remember it and keep telling us "this wasn't ok. i am not ok with this. this hurts."

It sounds like you have a lot of reason to hurt, and to be angry. And your life doesn't sound like a mess if you're headed to grad school! Give yourself some credit. You've probably fought tooth and nail for a normal life, like so many children of BPD. That is NOT easy, and takes lots of courage and strength and smarts. And not only are you doing that - you're tackling your pain head on in therapy. Challenging your fears of trusting, and sharing.

I agree with CBoo. You're doing great. 

[boppy]

It took a really, really, really, really long time in my case to trust the therapist.

It's been years of therapy.

It has helped immensely but it was a super long time before I began seeing real tangible results.

I still get mad that I'm not all better.

I still get annoyed the therapist has slight imperfections. I still wish she was totally perfect and omniscient and never said a wrong thing or misunderstood.

However, you also have to trust your gut. The therapist may not be right for you.  I would give it a bit more time though.

Eventually, you have to trust your therapist enough to tell her when she has not done things right. See how she responds. If it is very mature and strong and gives your reassurance, then that is a good sign. If not, if you see some issues she has peeking through and you know you won't progress with her, then it might be better to find another therapist.

I do family systems therapy. It's pretty great for the person who has been abused. If you do decide to seek another therapist, you could google and see if you could find someone who does this. But not that many do.

It can take many years, unfortunately!  I would not be so set on 'goals.' If you don't trust people that is a huge issue. I don't know if that can be undone quickly.

[Cordelia]

I also think you may learn that downplaying our abuse is a way of invalidating our experience and denying its seriousness. It doesn't matter if your mom never yelled or hit you, or if she never called you names, abuse doesn't come in one form. The one common thing about is abuse is that when you experience it, it stays with you. It is abuse because it hampers our quality of life. We can't forget the memories because our bodies/brains remember it and keep telling us "this wasn't ok. i am not ok with this. this hurts."

I think this is true too.  I also compared my own experience to others and invalidated my pain, especially on these boards.  It was so validating to hear about others' feelings and reactions and to see that I wasn't alone that I think some self-destructive part of me wanted to say, you don't deserve that, you didn't go through as much, and what you did go through doesn't matter, wasn't that bad, etc... .    It really doesn't help when other family members collude in this too.  My enDad always minimized what I went through when I was going through it, for his own reasons (he wanted to avoid responsibility) and even now all these years later he attacks me for the work I'm doing on my childhood, saying sarcastically, sorry your childhood was SO TERRIBLE, I'm so glad your inlaws are SO PERFECT in comparison to your horrible parents and things like that.  He always dismissed my pain, because in his opinion, only his pain matters.  Ditto for my mom.  They're just extremely unempathetic people, and to them, other people's pain just isn't very significant.  So you may have picked up on some of this lack of empathy and minimization of your feelings from your parents, and now you're doing it to yourself.  Just practice giving yourself the time and space to feel what you're feeling, to be patient and just be there for yourself, without judging yourself.  I've found meditation very helpful for this.  You focus on the breath to distract yourself from judging yourself and your thoughts and feelings and before you know it all kinds of things start showing up - joy as well as pain, physical sensations as well as thoughts - that come genuinely from you and not how you think you should feel or behave.  The more you can be awake and aware of your own true experience the less you'll judge yourself like you're a performing monkey or labor saving device rather than the miraculous complex surprising human being that you are!

[Claire]

Thanks for all the responses... .  You people constantly amaze me with your helpfulness and compassion. It's so reassuring to see that I'm not alone in my trust issues in therapy, and I really appreciate all of your encouraging words! 

It's possible she mentioned her own mother to gain trust or inform you that she has experience with difficult mothers

nomom4me - I think you're right that her motives are good. I think it's a personality thing. She has an almost grandmotherly feel, like "I know this is really hard, but we're going to get you through this." So it is probably trying to be reassuring, convince me that I'm not alone, etc.

All abuse is bad. We can always find someone faster than us or better than us at chess but that doesn't change the fact that we're really fast and quite good at chess. Similarly, we can always find someone who had it worse than us, but that doesn't mean that our experience wasn't bad.

ScarletOlive - Thanks for saying this so well. It makes a lot of sense. And yes, I've looked at the Survivor's guide. There's a lot there, but it looks very helpful to work through.

Be kind to yourself - if you had a niece who felt like you do what would you say? Doubting your validity is a key part of what many of us experience I think.

CBoo - Good point! I have a much younger sibling, and I have so much compassion for them in their current struggles due to our parents. Maybe I need to have that kind of compassion for my own self, who went through very similar things.

My father was by turn delightful and abusive. That actually makes growing up with it (and the therapy) more difficult. If they were just horrible we'd adjust better. This in no way excuses abusive behaviour or its impact.

YES. Never knowing what to expect creates a lot of confusion, fear, anger when they're abusive, and then guilt about those feelings when they're happy and nice. Very confusing as a child, and now as an adult, having no expectation of consistency from people.

The trouble is that there is no 'ruler' for levels of abuse. Some abuse is more spectacular and physical, and some of it emotional and VERY hard to see if you are not directly involved in the situation. Physical abuse is something you can point a finger at and say "This was 100% wrong. They hit me here, and here and it hurt." Mental, emotional abuse is far harder to point a finger at. You can't measure it in scars, you just carry the hurt inside.

Skelly_bean - The way you put this is really helpful. I think this is a big part of why it's so hard to talk about the things I've been through with others, since the most harmful stuff was definitely the emotional. It's like I have to cling to the physical abuse because people understand that. It seems like our culture as a whole are more "comfortable" with certain types of abuse or family dysfunction. We're less afraid/confused by the tangible rather than the intangible... .  

It took a really, really, really, really long time in my case to trust the therapist.

It's been years of therapy.

It has helped immensely but it was a super long time before I began seeing real tangible results.

I still get mad that I'm not all better.

I still get annoyed the therapist has slight imperfections. I still wish she was totally perfect and omniscient and never said a wrong thing or misunderstood.

However, you also have to trust your gut. The therapist may not be right for you.  I would give it a bit more time though.

boppy - Thanks for the affirmation that I'm not alone. I identify with so much of what you've said here. I'll especially keep in mind the thing about expecting perfection from a therapist. I sometimes find that I expect everyone outside my dysfunctional FOO to be perfect. And if they're not perfect then I can't trust them because it means they're just like my FOO, etc.

It was so validating to hear about others' feelings and reactions and to see that I wasn't alone that I think some self-destructive part of me wanted to say, you don't deserve that, you didn't go through as much, and what you did go through doesn't matter, wasn't that bad, etc... .    It really doesn't help when other family members collude in this too. 

So you may have picked up on some of this lack of empathy and minimization of your feelings from your parents, and now you're doing it to yourself.  Just practice giving yourself the time and space to feel what you're feeling, to be patient and just be there for yourself, without judging yourself.

Cordelia - Yes. It does go back to "I don't deserve validation/sympathy/whatever" And I am so sorry about your Dad's invalidating words. I think it's true for me as well that the minimization of feelings comes from paretns treatment. Thanks for the kind words!