Beginning to wonder... maybe "it" was me...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am suddenly back in Post Mortem stage, re-thinking everything that did and didn't happen.

I see that I distrusted him from the start when he was telling me everything I THOUGHT I had always wanted to hear from a loving man.  But I now see that I pushed him away pretty coldly instead of owning up to him that I was simply frightened and distrustful and perhaps lacking in enough self-esteem to believe that someone like him would be interested in someone like me.

I see now that every time we attempted some sort of reconciliation, I was the one who couldn't commit, I was the one who couldn't say the word Love.

Knowing what I now understand about pwBPD, this must have been sheer torture for him and no wonder he ended up being so filled with rage.

He was confounded by the way I could be so supportive of his music but couldn't be supportive of having a r/l.  It was because he is his true authentic self in the music AND he wasn't harping on me to define our interaction when he was engaging in his art.

And just because he has BPD, doesn't mean that my standing firm about my boundaries wasn't excruciating for him.

No - I am not "going back," but I am learning how I contributed to the Ugly.

Pretty sobering stuff to dig down deep... .  

[DarkCurls54]

I am suddenly back in Post Mortem stage, re-thinking everything that did and didn't happen.

I see that I distrusted him from the start when he was telling me everything I THOUGHT I had always wanted to hear from a loving man.  But I now see that I pushed him away pretty coldly instead of owning up to him that I was simply frightened and distrustful and perhaps lacking in enough self-esteem to believe that someone like him would be interested in someone like me.

I see now that every time we attempted some sort of reconciliation, I was the one who couldn't commit, I was the one who couldn't say the word Love.

Knowing what I now understand about pwBPD, this must have been sheer torture for him and no wonder he ended up being so filled with rage.

He was confounded by the way I could be so supportive of his music but couldn't be supportive of having a r/l.  It was because he is his true authentic self in the music AND he wasn't harping on me to define our interaction when he was engaging in his art.

And just because he has BPD, doesn't mean that my standing firm about my boundaries wasn't excruciating for him.

No - I am not "going back," but I am learning how I contributed to the Ugly.

Pretty sobering stuff to dig down deep... .  

[delgato]

Dark,


Try not to dwell too much on the would've/could've/should've's. I think most if not all of us did the best we could. BPD can be really really tough for both parties when intimacy is involved, and all the love in the world can't "fix" it.


Not for nothing, but I didn't totally trust mine, either. I had seen a chunk of what she was like prior to getting involved, and saw/heard some things that didn't agree with me (yet still cautiously went ahead, anyway). I think for at least some of us, we held back a part of ourselves, as our internal alarm system was sounding & knew/felt something wasn't quite right.

I, too, pushed her away pretty coldly -- twice, in fact. I apologized both times, but really to no avail. Never in a million years would I have said those things & acted that way. But it was her BPD that did it to me in the end; a non can only handle so much.


Anyway, yeah... . it does take two to tango. I wouldn't say it's exactly 50/50, but nons do play a role in it all. We can't fix them -- but we can certainly work on ourselves.

[TippyTwo]

I was reluctant to get involved too cuz something just didn't feel right. She knew the words but didn't know how to convert them into appropriate corresponding adult behavior.

Holding back parts of myself was a survival mechanism. With each recycle, I held back more and more as the patterns of behavior became increasingly obvious.

I am actually kind of proud of myself for recognizing on some level there was a problem.

[Billa]

Hi Dark, I understand, we all get through this specific phase, but, you know, it's just a phase. No one is perfect, no one would be able to face a r/s with a pw/BPD without making mistakes. They drive you crazy, so you find yourself in a position to react. But it's their disorder, it's not you. Try and let it go, ok?

[Healing4Ever]

Wow - this is interesting.  Reflecting back, I definitely held back in my relationship with my ex-BPD as well.  In part because of my own wounded past, but in reading the posts, some of my holding back was definitely due to niggles about not feeling emotionally safe with him specifically.  I too felt more leary with each recycling, although this took me much longer than I would like to admit - for many of the initial recyclings (years worth) I just kept hoping against hope it would end.  And I would blame myself.  But still, I held back.  I didn't want to get married (I said yes but I stalled it, and then I called it off last year).  For a long time, I didn't want to move in together, and then relented because he basicly said he would leave.  I definitely didn't want to have kids with him, which is a bit weird for me, because my children are my life and I would still adopt or parent step-kids or do foster work.

Thanks for this post - very insightful for me

H4E

[nolisan]

Holding back parts of myself was a survival mechanism. With each recycle, I held back more and more as the patterns of behavior became increasingly obvious.

That really resonated with me. I can see that I did this too. Each time she would split and run part of me shut down. It must have (may have) been hard on her. I can see now that her emails became more frequent, longer and more frantic - mine became fewer and shorter. She meantion that towards the end and that I "didn't trust her". I didn't and I am glad I didn't.

[DarkCurls54]

But the flip side is... .  HAD we "given in" and exposed our Softness, the eventual outcome would not have been any different!

I see this now as the deep craving my pwBPD has - it could never have been enough.  This is why he cultivates "relationships" (all of them platonic) with young women who are first getting into the music industry - they idolize him, become infatuated with him,  and don't even recognize that his hanging out with them is kinda "unseemly" and inappropriate.  They give him unconditional admiration in the way that a woman his own age would NEVER even think of!  And, of course, they have to listen to him when he gets so upset about me... .  

OOPS!


Guess I forgot:  THIS IS IN THE PAST!


Hahahahahahaha!

[patientandclear]

If it makes you feel any better, I did not hold back.  I could not have been any more affirming & enthusiastic.  When he left me, and then got cold feet after suggesting reconciliation, he would say "I don't know why I have to turn away from the most amazing love I've ever known."  "I hope to cross paths again someday with the kindest, most loving person I've ever met."

What seems to have scared him away most recently (we have been friends in the past year) is that I affirmed my love for him when he left town & pointed out that if he never returns here he will be giving up a great deal.

Please don't beat yourself up that if you had been more pedal-to-the-metal it would have been better.  It is quite possible that your r/s lasted longer because you showed your love rather than overwhelming him with words and declarations.  pwBPD seem to do best with a balance of closeness and distance, and maybe you provided a really good balance of that.  In the end the disorder forces them to distrust you regardless of how loving you are or how much loving distance you offer.

[leftbehind]

I have to admit that even though I truly loved my ex (and still do, but I'm NC and detaching as he's broken up with me), that there was a part of me that never trusted him fully.  This was partly due to some facts I knew about how he acted in his last two relationships, and partly due to the fact that he was a big flirt. 

I blamed myself for two months - "Maybe if I only trusted him more, he'd still be with me."  But what if the reason I didn't fully trust him was that my intuition was trying to tell me something?  Trying to show me that his feelings  really didn't run as deep as he protested?  He broke up with me and walked away with no emotion, and apparently with complete detachment.  When he was done, he treated me like I should just disappear, like I didn't deserve a reason, and like I didn't have any right to be angry or upset about it.  Like I had absolutely no right to ask any questions.  In truth, I was devastated.  He didn't care a flying fig about that. 

I think sometimes we know things without having any evidence.  Reading this thread is making me realize that a lot of us had some gut level distrust of our BPDex's.  Maybe that distrust was there for a reason.  Maybe it was trying to protect us.  After all, look what happened.

[Murbay]

I think we all felt a little like that Dark. I can hold my hands up and say that something didn't feel right either and I attribute that to the fact when you are a balanced person and understand healthy boundaries, you sense when things are being knocked off course.

I have spent many sessions in the therapists office, analyzing the tiniest details and holding myself accountable only to be told I'm not responsible. My exBPDw was a master manipulator who I allowed inside my head to the point I started to believe I was. Was she correct that I was hiding something? Of course she was because I did hold back a little as something wasn't right. I didn't in the beginning but when the things you have opened up about start getting used against you, you tend to start to hold back so as not to give them more ammunition.

My therapist agreed completely that we can hold ourselves accountable for contributing to some of the factors, arguments or disagreements but that the blame is not ours to carry.

[DarkCurls54]

Thanks!  Yes - I am feeling nostalgic and perhaps trying to convince myself that I had some kind of power in the equation but "elected" not to use it... .    So much of what we have all written seems to hinge on the feeling of being dis-empowered: our own feelings of helplessness, the pwBPD's feelings of helplessness. We all "know" this isn't healthy - but perhaps it is compelling because we are trying to fight the "injustice" of it.  I guess one of the Lessons is that Letting Go is not "giving in."

And thank you all alos for reminding me what it felt like to be repeatedly Gaslighted... .    I do not miss THAT at all!

[Chazz]

I never felt that I had any "power" in the relationship – only the “power” to make her angry over some minor real or imaged issue. ... .  I remind myself of that powerlessness when I get nostalgic.

Yes, there was much "injustice"... .  I often felt I was paying the "BILL" for the harm other people had done to her throughout her life. I signed on for that against my better, intuitive judgment. I’m unpacking the whys of that on a daily basis.

Why did I sign on ? ... .  I had this crazy notion that love and intimacy could provide a healing environment for her (caretaker much, Chazz?). In some ways, it did. Even she acknowledged that on rare occasions. But her damage and hurt ran too deep. I couldn't assuage it no matter how hard I tried – and try, I surely did. However, it wasn't mine to fix.  She prefers to run from that task to another person, and then another….

Our partners have to want to be healed. They have to be willing to go to any lengths to effect that healing. It is not our task to do that for them - that's an impossibility. Would that I had recognized that sooner.

[Rocknut]

I spent the last 3 months playing "woulda, coulda, shoulda,"

After therapy, I have figured out I am a fairly controling codependent. When my partner raged, or acted emotionally unstrung, or behaved like a child, I responded with harsh criticism, threats of breakup and stone coldness. Sure, I am not to blame for his BPD. Sure, I am not to blame for his drug use(he would tell you otherwise)

However, it still plays out in my mind. If I hadn't been such a controlling, manipulative person, would he have split me? The answer is yes. It would have eventually happened. It would have just taken longer.

[Chazz]

Rocknut... .  So, okay, you have some personal issues to work on. Who among us doesn't? 

Maybe, facing our issues is the ultimate lesson in all this. Admittedly, it's a lesson learned the hard way, be there it is.

For a long time, I convinced myself I had more influence, and power and control in my relationship than I did. It's one of the things that kept me in a FOG. I'm starting to see that I could have danced a hula with a beach ball balanced on my nose and the outcome would have been the same. We NONs like to think we have more power and control over our partner's BPD and addictions than we do. That's our egocentricity at work. What would Eckhart Tolle say about that, I wonder?

[Rocknut]

Rocknut... .  So, okay, you have some personal issues to work on. Who among us doesn't? 

Maybe, facing our issues is the ultimate lesson in all this. Admittedly, it's a lesson learned the hard way, be there it is.

Yes sir, absolutely correct. For a while I lied to myself. I lied to my ex BPD partner. I was sure god had meant for us to be together. I would tell him that over and over again. It was by pure chance, and pure conincidence that we met. I remember laying in bed one night at 3am. I had purchased him a teddy bear that would say "i love you" when squeezed. It went off that night by itself and i said "see! we were meant to be together." I told him all this while trying to get him to quit smoking pot heavily. I was manipulating him.

In retrospect I learned how terrible I can be. Through therapy I am learning what my problems are. Sure, my ex with BPD acted absolutely insane at time. But the real question is, why did i keep going back for more?

[leftbehind]

Rocknut, I've come to the same conclusion in the last couple of days.  Even if I didn't have my own fears of rejection and abandonment, or issues of jealousy from people cheating on me in the past, he would have broken up with me.  It might have happened two weeks later, or two months later. 

Part of why I believe this is because I know how he acted in the two relationships he had before me.  Also because the last two months we were together he was beginning to dissociate, overindulge in alcohol (once I saw him drinking at 7:00am on a workday), and he stopped initiating sex (although he would respond sometimes if I initiated it). 

The dissociation was starting to scare me, because it became almost every other time we were together.  Maybe this too is a way of distancing from intimacy?  He would get extremely spacy and ungrounded, not be sexually connected at all, and didn't really care to be touched (although he would tolerate it).  I question whether he has a form of Dissociative Identity Disorder, because he would often talk about "the other guy" coming in.  He called this "other guy" his higher self.  I'm not so sure that's what it was.

Anyway, on my end even though I know the ways I might have been difficult  (insecurity, jealousy, fears of abandonment), I also know how hard I was working on myself to clear these things.  I was aware, working on them, taking responsibility for them, and apologizing when I would act out of them. 

What I never did (and never would have) was cheat on him, lie to him, call him names, break stuff, insult him, etc.  I feel there is a difference between having issues and not being a pleasant person on certain days, and being abusive.  People struggle.  I know how good I was to him, how supportive, affectionate, and loyal I was.  I know how generous I was, and how much I showed appreciation.  I also know that I was a nag at times, and wouldn't drop things easily.  I know how much fun we had too.  It's all me.  I think the difference between a non and someone with a PD is that the non is capable of owning their faults, not that they don't have any faults.  Just my opinion. 

[Rocknut]

What I never did (and never would have) was cheat on him, lie to him, call him names, break stuff, insult him, etc.  I feel there is a difference between having issues and not being a pleasant person on certain days, and being abusive.  People struggle.  I know how good I was to him, how supportive, affectionate, and loyal I was.  I know how generous I was, and how much I showed appreciation.  I also know that I was a nag at times, and wouldn't drop things easily.  I know how much fun we had too.  It's all me.  I think the difference between a non and someone with a PD is that the non is capable of owning their faults, not that they don't have any faults.  Just my opinion. 

I never ever cheated on my BPD boyfrend. I never broke anything. I told "white lies" a few times to him trying to get him to stop his drug use.

One day I did do something terrible however. He had an absolute manic rage one day. He called me and said, "i gave you aids hahaha." He hung up. Ok, he had been raging on me for months. He had been calling me names. Then to top it off I was scared to death he gave me aids.

Apparently he followed me to the grocery store. As I'm coming out of the store, 5 minutes after he called me, he was waiting by my car. Angry, confused, scared over the aids thing I absolutely lost it. I started screaming "drug addict drug addict! child molester child molester!" My BPD had molested a 5 year old when he was 10. I finally broke. I said horrible things.

[leftbehind]

We all have our breaking point.  I actually had an ex pretend that he gave me aids too, because he thought it was funny.  I didn't touch him, but I wanted to rip his head off his shoulders.  To tell someone you gave them aids in jest is abusive and sick.  I would forgive yourself for that one.

Forgive yourself for the white lies you might have told him to get him to stop using drugs as well.  I sense your motivation came from a good place.  Sometimes extremely unhealthy people pull the crazy out of you.  It happens to the best of us... .  

[DarkCurls54]

Thank you ALL for creating this Safe Place for us to do some self-reflection... .    Part of the horror of BPD is that the non can no longer seem to discern what is "normal" or even "normative."  I remember times when I truly believed, deep down inside, that I DESERVED to be screamed at - because it meant that we had a "deep connection."  I was smug about it, to be honest with you.  I knew I had "gotten under his skin" and this somehow was a mark of achievement to me... .    WHOA!  So - who was the person with the Illness in THAT transaction?  But yes - the huge difference is that when I reflect on the failure of the relationship, I ask myself what I could have done better, what I can LEARN.  B, on the other hand, is still thinking of what I did to hurt him.  If he "learns" anything from the experience, it is in the manner of "how can I inure myself to the pain and understand that all of this wasn't important."

I wonder... .    Did any of your pwBPD also try to find spiritual solace in the teachings of some of the Law of Attraction theories?  In the eyes of a BPD, this system can appear to encourage a type of Magical Thinking that seems to leave them in even worse condition than before.  It encourages them to concentate even more on self-empowerment and to call that self-centeredness "Love"or "Love and Light."  they miss the MOST essential teaching of New Thought: that EVERYTHING is One and part of the same divinity, that there is Something Higher than our small self. 

When I remember how B. used to use this kind of SMUGNESS as his supposed "spirituality," it makes me soo disgusted!  I am not AT ALL nostalgic about THIS!  You cannot "reason" with a fanatic!  You cannot "heal" a fanatic!  WOW!  Now all I have to do is keep this in mind and there is NO WAY I will feel compelled to blame myself any longer... .    No, I am FAR from perfect!  But - my feelings about spirituality center around Service, not around self-serving-ness. I cringe when I remember some of our converstions... .  

[TippyTwo]

DarkCurls,

Yes, I too began to wonder what was normal or normative. These types of relationships are very disorienting. And, it seems, sets up some weird dynamics within us that are not a part of our usual behavior/thinking.

As for the magical thinking... .  my ex was big into astrology and horoscopes which seemed odd given her age.

[patientandclear]

Dark Curls -- the mis-use of spirituality or personal growth to justify emotional recklessness toward others is a theme I've been thinking about.  I've read numerous stories in which someone wBPD invokes "a shift in energy" (LeftBehind's story), or not taking on board/being responsible for the emotions of others ("we are only responsible for our own feelings", or avoiding the dangers of attachment (invoking Buddhist principles, which my ex did) ... .  in order to justify plain old betrayals or mistreatment of their partners.

What we're watching there is a very robust defense mechanism at work.  Something goes wrong, they have a fight/flight response, it hurts their partner, they cannot feel themselves to be at fault, and some value system is able to explain why this is good, not bad, behavior ... .  they reach for it.  Yes, it's hard to take, because the missing piece is about accountability and responsibility to others one has asked to be in one's life and to share vulnerabilities and intimate times with.  But you can see what a relief it is for pwBPD to have a legitimizing belief system that explains that following their impulses is actually the Right Thing To Do.

[babyducks]

I have spent many sessions in the therapists office, analyzing the tiniest details and holding myself accountable only to be told I'm not responsible. My exBPDw was a master manipulator who I allowed inside my head to the point I started to believe I was.

My therapist agreed completely that we can hold ourselves accountable for contributing to some of the factors, arguments or disagreements but that the blame is not ours to carry.

This pretty much sums up where I am today.  How much of this is 'my fault'  and what would have happened if I had said or done this or that.   

I am trying to remember that I can select which of my thoughts I want to focus on.  I understand that concentrating on 'my fault' is very counter productive.  I am not having much success climbing out of the black hole of guilt today.

I had a weird epiphany the other day.   Everything she gave me, everything I gave her, she immediately wrote the date on.   And it just struck me that she was counting days.   Wow.   She was measuring success in the relationship by how long it lasted, by how long we were together.  She was so sure I was going to leave that she counted days like a prisoner in a jail cell.   And then I did leave her because I couldn't stand the crazy making any longer.   

Today, that just makes me sick to my stomach.

[FindingMe2011]

Part of the horror of BPD is that the non can no longer seem to discern what is "normal" or even "normative."

No such thing as a "non", having this POV, will most likely lead to, and possibly keep you stuck in, the us against them mentality... .  I have asked many, to tell me their definition of normal. The different reactions are interesting. Seeing the illness as a horror, will insure you dont fully understand.

I remember times when I truly believed, deep down inside, that I DESERVED to be screamed at - because it meant that we had a "deep connection."

For me, it was the passive aggressive behavior from the ex, and when I looked into my FOO, low and behold, it was the same type of behavior, I had received from my mother. So mistaking intensity for intimacy, wasnt hard for me to do, given the circumstances. Shame and guilt, I was programmed to feel, unjustly. You may not like the screaming, but you do know how to survive in it, and find some sort of comfort in this. To be able to spin it, into a deep connection, says plenty.

I was smug about it, to be honest with you.  I knew I had "gotten under his skin" and this somehow was a mark of achievement to me... .   WHOA!  So - who was the person with the Illness in THAT transaction?

Its a guarantee that both parties of a dysfunctional  r/s, are well,... .  dysfunctional in their behavior. Looking for the one upmanship position, was a staple, in a 12 1/2 yr r/s, from the both of us. Understanding why I was attracted to these types of r/s, and people, was very helpful to me. It takes 2 to dance, and i accept no more than 50%. Seeing, and understanding your role, will pay big dividends, and start the real, healing process... .  Be kind and forgiving to yourself. If you dont, then who will?

But yes - the huge difference is that when I reflect on the failure of the relationship, I ask myself what I could have done better, what I can LEARN.  B, on the other hand, is still thinking of what I did to hurt him.  If he "learns" anything from the experience, it is in the manner of "how can I inure myself to the pain and understand that all of this wasn't important."

BPD is a self persecuting illness, and he has inured himself, his whole life. Unjustly as a child, and willingly as an adult. His choice, and one you have no control over. Asking a person with a part time self, in survival mode, to learn is virtually impossible.

I wonder... .   :)id any of your pwBPD also try to find spiritual solace in the teachings of some of the Law of Attraction theories?  In the eyes of a BPD, this system can appear to encourage a type of Magical Thinking that seems to leave them in even worse condition than before.  It encourages them to concentate even more on self-empowerment and to call that self-centeredness "Love"or "Love and Light."  they miss the MOST essential teaching of New Thought: that EVERYTHING is One and part of the same divinity, that there is Something Higher than our small self.  

When I remember how B. used to use this kind of SMUGNESS as his supposed "spirituality," it makes me soo disgusted!  I am not AT ALL nostalgic about THIS!  You cannot "reason" with a fanatic!  You cannot "heal" a fanatic!  WOW!

It seems to be the same type of smugness, you described of yourself. When in Rome, do as the Romans... .  In 12 1/2 yrs, I watched the ex reinvent herself, a few times. The most drastic, after we separated, and all with a bunch of hypocrisy.

Now all I have to do is keep this in mind and there is NO WAY I will feel compelled to blame myself any longer... .   No, I am FAR from perfect!

Your willingness to take the blame, started long before this. "This" just triggered the feelings, you learned long ago... .  The quest for perfection, and its only possible outcome... .  failure.

But - my feelings about spirituality center around Service, not around self-serving-ness. I cringe when I remember some of our converstions... .  

Interested in what you mean by "service"... .  I eventually learned to look back on conversations, and events, and see them for what they truly were, and was able to allow this, to help me understand, what I didnt at the time. The good, the bad, the humor, the sadness... .  I wish you well, PEACE









 

[leftbehind]

Did any of your pwBPD also try to find spiritual solace in the teachings of some of the Law of Attraction theories?  In the eyes of a BPD, this system can appear to encourage a type of Magical Thinking that seems to leave them in even worse condition than before.  It encourages them to concentate even more on self-empowerment and to call that self-centeredness "Love"or "Love and Light."  they miss the MOST essential teaching of New Thought: that EVERYTHING is One and part of the same divinity, that there is Something Higher than our small self. 

Yes, my ex did.  I do as well, but he used it to excessively detach.  I was trying to use it to connect. 

While we were together, he actually painted a picture to bring the spiritual energy of Detachment into his life.  I got a funny feeling that that was the true beginning of the end.  Some spiritual people (mistakenly, I believe) think that attachment to things is bad, and that detachment is good.  The truth is, neither are "good" or "bad".  They are helpful and healthy in certain circumstances, and in other circumstances they are unhealthy. 

One time when I felt we needed to connect more I brought over a candle to his house for us to light together so we could reconnect our energies.  We had done similar things like this before, with meditation and chanting.  This time he didn't want to, and he gave me a weird response, "No connection without Ascension."  I was, "What?" 

Even though he couldn't really explain what he meant that well, I came to understand that he felt that me asking for us to re-connect our energies would somehow not allow him to go further in his spiritual vibration.  In my mind, isn't spirituality supposed to connect people?  I came to realize since then with some other things that happened after that, that he feels attachment to a person limits your spiritual growth.

So I had someone who on the surface believed all the same  spiritual principles as me, but used them in an entirely different way.  IMO, he used them as an excuse to not get too close to people. 

[LetItBe]

Dark Curls -- the mis-use of spirituality or personal growth to justify emotional recklessness toward others is a theme I've been thinking about.  I've read numerous stories in which someone wBPD invokes "a shift in energy" (LeftBehind's story), or not taking on board/being responsible for the emotions of others ("we are only responsible for our own feelings", or avoiding the dangers of attachment (invoking Buddhist principles, which my ex did) ... .  in order to justify plain old betrayals or mistreatment of their partners.

What we're watching there is a very robust defense mechanism at work.  Something goes wrong, they have a fight/flight response, it hurts their partner, they cannot feel themselves to be at fault, and some value system is able to explain why this is good, not bad, behavior ... .  they reach for it.  Yes, it's hard to take, because the missing piece is about accountability and responsibility to others one has asked to be in one's life and to share vulnerabilities and intimate times with.  But you can see what a relief it is for pwBPD to have a legitimizing belief system that explains that following their impulses is actually the Right Thing To Do.

My ex to a TEE!  He twists Buddhist philosophies around to justify his fears of attachment and his complete lack of empathy in the face of my hurt feelings. 

[Rocknut]

Here is where I differe from everyone else. At no point did I ever think I deserved the treatment I was getting. Before I know what BPD was, I simply thought to myself, "sheesh this guy is crazy as hell."

Then the question that got me in to therapy was, "why do you keep going back?" Oh yes, I'm a hardcore codependent with massive issues. But no, I never blamed myself or thought I deserved the treatment.

[Healing4Ever]

Wow - the twisting of spirituality really hits the nail on the head for me.  My ex-BPD did that ALL the time - he said that our feelings are our own responsibility (true), but also that he could not "cause" me to feel anything, and therefore took the stance that it wasn't his problem.   He would base this on Buddha, or Jesus, or whatever his spiritual bend was for that month/year. His message was that I was a big girl and could deal with it, and then he believed that I then had the responsibility to fix myself so that I wouldn't feel badly the next time he did it. 

For example - for the longest time in our relationship he simply would not show up on time to meet me.  Consistently, he would be 10, 15, 30 minutes late, often because he decided to run an extra errand at the last minute.  I tried all the communication techniques I could think of letting him know that at the very least, I would like him to let me know that he was going to be late. (his blackberry is practically glued to his fingertips).  And then I started getting frustrated about it - he would not acknowledge that any part of his behavior was off, and if I was upset about it, he let me know that I needed to figure that out. Why couldn't I just relax and wait for him?  He always had reasons for being late... .  so that was good enough for him. 

In the end, he was right, in that I needed to figure out why I kept staying with someone who acted like this, not just about being late, but with any issue in our relationship that might require him to take responsibility.

(Interestingly, after more than 6 years of dealing with this with him, a couple of his friends said similar things to him about his being late, and he ended up coming around and being more considerate about letting me know when he would be late.  It was weird though - his behavior change didn't come from a "compassionate" place,  but more from a "this is the right thing to do" place.  He said to me once "I get it now, it's just normal behavior to let others know if you're going to be late.  Thanks for pointing it out to me."  It was very weird.)

[LetItBe]

(Interestingly, after more than 6 years of dealing with this with him, a couple of his friends said similar things to him about his being late, and he ended up coming around and being more considerate about letting me know when he would be late.  It was weird though - his behavior change didn't come from a "compassionate" place,  but more from a "this is the right thing to do" place.  He said to me once "I get it now, it's just normal behavior to let others know if you're going to be late.  Thanks for pointing it out to me."  It was very weird.)

Interesting... .  I asked my ex (using the DEARMAN reward system) if he'd find a way to communicate with me even if only briefly the day after sexual intimacy (vs. his usual abrupt distancing), and he agreed, saying, "As long as it's not to 'make you okay, because I can't make you okay,' but I'll do it if it's something that contributes to your growth." 

I've never had a guy I'm in a r/s with just disappear for a couple of days after sex like he would do, and he did it for the most part only after sex.  Is it not normal to want your guy not to disappear after sex?  Am I the crazy one?

Anyway, when the time came for him to follow through on that agreement, he didn't.  He also pretended it didn't happen.  Imagine that. 

Yes, it's up to me to figure out why I chose to stay with someone like him.

[leftbehind]

Rocknut, I'm glad that you know you don't deserve that kind of treatment   Keep focusing on your own healing, you're doing better than you realize.

[leftbehind]

It seems like myself, Patient&Clear, NonGF, Healing4ever, and DarkCurls 54 have all dated the same guy!