This is my situation. Any thoughts welcome.

[whatshappening]

Hi:

I started on here in 2009. I have been here off and on. Things with my UPDw go from tolerable to less tolerable. I have two daughters, so leaving is not an option for me.

I am thinking of starting a new Therapist, but am thinking I will send this note to give them an overview and she what they think first. Any thoughts before I do? Don't hold anything back if you do. I am looking for truth.

My wife and I have problems. She believes I have a connection issue with her.

The surrounding facts:

I feel like she has anger issues.

I have been yelled at constantly for 9+ years out of 10 being married.

I don’t like how she now yells at the kids.

She thinks a man should support his wife even when she is wrong.

She gets angry and is negative far more than I am comfortable with.

I feel she is abusive, because she will allow no dissent. Try and she talks over you and you just give up, to avoid further escalation... .

She can switch on this anger with her family in an instant, yet switch it off immediately if a friend shows up.

She said she hates me. Mainly I think because I think she feels judged by me.

She feels like I am the Principal, judging her when she does wrong.( I swear, all I ever say I don’t like is the yelling/anger)

She feels like I have not protected her in a few select moments when I thought she was going overboard anger-wise with family or the kids- and I could not feel the same anger at the situation as she. And after I have been subjected to so many damaging, hurtful, hateful diatribes and attacks that it was harder to see her viewpoint... .

She feels alone. Totally alone in this world.

I feel like I am walking on eggshells constantly.

I feel like a beautiful day can change if she gets angered at any situation, and if I don’t back her in the right way.

I meditate and have always been laid back. I don’t like negative behavior or thought, and I do my best to not have that in my life.

I have read a myriad of self help books and studied a lot.

PsychoCybernetics by Maxwell Maltz and As a Man Thinketh are among many that have influenced me.

She has read nothing.

We have gone through 4 Psychologists/LCSWs.

We have been to Steven Stosnys Love without hurt bootcamp.

We have been to a course on Logical Consequences for kids and I truly try to use that. She is still yelling which is why I suggested it in the first place.

She says, "that's just how I am"

She will not to therapy again... .

She feels I need to go and find out how to have a connection with her, though I have a connection with my mother and my children.

I begged her to consider looking into anger management but she said I need to fix myself first.

I have truly tried for weeks, the suggested actions in Stosnys clinic. It worked for a couple of weeks, but she started with the anger again and I sort of just gave up.

I know that you can’t change people and can only change yourself and I truly feel I have tried.

I truly don’t feel like she has tried.

Basically I have instituted boundaries, and don’t engage her yelling tantrums. This to her is worse than if I yelled back.

She has threatened to blow my balls off if I say I’m not sure what to do again.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[dickL]

your situation mirrors mine. uBPDw of 35yrs many same traits as your w . i have always been low key , dislike angry talk .courtship was white hot. w has claimed first 2yrs of marriage i was not a romantic guy , failed to connect with her. i was the problem and i swallowed hook,line,and sinker. she was cheating with neighbor , unknown to me for yrs . continued with lies and infidility for yrs with more men . all came out with discovery of a love letter from her . she admitted then all the rumors were true . after a tearful apology she claimed her infidelities were my fault for not being a romantic loving h . i worked 31yrs at same job , never thought of cheating , nice home , stability. foolish me thought those things were part of a long term rs. she saw T during 1990's with out my participation , not invited . i have asked her to return to T any T , she refuses . i reacted w/anger and made things worse before she secretly packed up and moved in with her " soulmate ", her first at 14. 6wks nc. 25 s and i been in T for awhile finding out how to survive her . she'll be back . with her anger and her in Tx life is more peaceful , no eggshells . i love her and wouldn't abandon her if she had a brain tumor, but proper treatment is her only hope. she knows how ill she is but denial is less painful for her.

[Rockylove]

It's not easy... .  and it's not always fun.  It seems that the good time must outweigh the bad or we wouldn't stay.  It's either that or we're just gluttons for punishment.  I choose to be with my BPD fiance and I will most likely marry him in spite of all the drama.  He's an amazing person although he doesn't believe that.  He treats me like dirt at times, but I can overlook it because that's him projecting his stuff on me.  I've got to remember who I am and what I stand for.  It's my life to live... .  and I choose to live happily ever after regardless of whether he stays in it or not.  I hope you find that you are not your wife's illness and never will be unless you allow it to be so.  Don't get the fleas.  Wishing you peace in spite of the trauma.

[arabella]

This is a T for just yourself (i.e. not a marriage T), correct? If that's the case, I'm not sure what the purpose of sending the note ahead of time is, so it's hard to give feedback. Maybe you could clarify?

[eniale]

Your wife sounds like a verbally abusive bully.  My therapist recommended a book, I think the title is The Verbally Abusive Relationship -- How to Recognize it and How to Respond -- I know you know you need therapy for yourself.  Sure, give the therapist what you wrote.  She may just place it in your file and want to just talk to you, and refer to it later.  You must protect your kids from verbal bullying just as you must protect yourself.  Note that when you set boundaries -- not responding -- she gets even angrier, because she has been baiting you and controlling you and now the ball is in your court.  I don't know how old your girls are, but you must protect them by discussing with T.  They will look back on their younger years and know you were always there for them and protected them.  In my own case, I simply stated "This is verbal abuse.  I do not verbally abuse anyone and will not tolerate (or you can say "will not respond" to verbal abuse from anyone."  Say it CALMLY even though she will no doubt freak out.  The fact that she raises her voice and "talks over you" says a lot about her.  I would just stay CALM, CALM, CALM, and just say what I stated above, though you want to talk to your therapist.  I have a hunch he/she will agree.  Good luck.

[waverider]

Quick question.

Answer as briefly as possible.

List say 3 important Boundaries you have and what your action is when these boundaries are transgressed

[eniale]

My 3 Important Boundaries:

1.  No verbal abuse.  If boundary is ignored, I calmly state:  "This is verbal abuse.  I do not verbally abuse anyone & will not accept verbal abuse from anyone."  If my partner freaks out at this, I am silent as I have stated my position.  Don't lose control and respond.  This worked well with my ex, but we had other issues.

2.  No cheating.  You asked for my fidelity and got it; you could trust me.  If you cheat on me, it means you had one set of standards for yourself, another for me.  I demand mutuality.  If you don't value or respect my trust, I am out of the relationship.

3.  I don't remain "best friends" with someone who has betrayed me.  Best friends do not betray each other.  (My ex wanted me to "remain his best friend" even after he revealed his cheating.  Guess he needed his binky.  I have NC for 3 mos.

[whatshappening]

Thanks all. Reading over this I see it it was lacking in explanation.

1. to Arabella: This was something I was considering talking to a Therapist with BPD knowledge, and the idea was to tell them this: tell them I would be OK with going 5-10 times to them by myself, but I wanted them to say they would be comfortable with bringing my wife in later(saying it was their request) for a few sessions, so they could see the dynamic, then doing some sessions alone with my wife, with the thought being I want them to confront her about at least Anger Management and insist on at least that-Maybe confronting about BPD.  I know it's sort of next to impossible to get a therapist to say they would go along with this, but I'm at the point I'd rather not waste any more time with a therapist who can go years without mentioning anything that will help.

2. To Waverider: Boundaries:

1. walk away from yelling if after saying "Can we have a calm conversation?" doesn't work.

2. To meditate daily, no matter if she gets annoyed or not

3. To go to yoga weekly even though she has found a problem with that.

The fact is, this question is good, because I'm not sure I have enough boundaries... .

3. The biggest problem is- this stuff is like a storm that comes and goes. It's almost as if any given conflict will go away and not even be remembered if I can get through it, but if I were to give into my disgust, I could be divorced, out of my house and partially out of my daughters lives in an instant.

I wrote this initially because after years of somewhat "normal" conflict  for this dysfunctional situation, its been escalating lately and I needed to hear some feedback. I thank you all for the thoughts.

[arabella]

Thanks for the clarification - that does help!

1. I think you probably do need more boundaries. You shouldn't be walking on eggshells. For example, what are your boundaries concerning your children? Your wife's tantrums must affect them too.

2. Your list is very focused on your wife's behaviour rather than goals for yourself. There isn't much a T can do about someone who isn't actually coming to see them. For that matter, there is very little (read: nothing) that can be done for someone who doesn't want help or who doesn't see the problem for themselves.

3. Any good T should let you bring your spouse along at any point if you feel it is important to you. What you are stating here sounds as though you want to control your T.

4. The T may be willing to see your wife for individual sessions, but that doesn't do you any good if your W won't go along with it or still doesn't see her own problems. You can't force your wife to get better, to get help, or to 'see' anything - a diagnosis isn't going to change that.

5. If you think that seeing a T for yourself is a waste of time then that says more about you than your wife. If you think that nothing you do for yourself can help the situation then you may need to rethink your situation and your marriage. It can't all rest with your W. The idea isn't to 'fix' your wife - it's to fix the r/s (as much as possible) and you're half of that dynamic. Even if the T gives you coping strategies, de-escalation techniques, tips for helping your kids, or help with setting boundaries, any of those are a great step forward - and it doesn't require anything from your W.

[whatshappening]

Good points.

With regard to children. I don't openly challenge her when she is unreasonable and yelling, but I do try my best to smooth it over and deflect the behavior and get her out of the way, or onto something else so I can take over... . Otherwise it would be a lot of angry fights in front of the kids. When I can, I say something, but much of the time I say nothing because it always turns into her blaming me for not connecting with her or supporting her or just being an idiot in her opinion... . And letting a crumb fall on the floor is not something they did to her, or I let them do to her just to disrespect her. Kids are kids, and crumbs fall on the ground. She won't even allow them to do many of the chores they should be because she thinks they can't do them as well or as fast as she needs it done. She calls herself the "maid" in a self-depreciating and not funny way, like the world is against her. (And I'm sure she feels that). I have just lost the sympathy for that after so long.

And I have reflected on what you've said from going to my own therapist for years. The problem I have with this standard advice is that it doesn't take into account the fact that a person with bad anger issues, potentially with BPD, can ruin what could be a perfectly normal dynamic/relationship otherwise. Her demands that I learn how to have a connection can't really help if the person telling you you don't have a connection doesn't have one or know what one looks like herself. Everything is truly all about her. I have a great connection with my kids and my mother because they are kind and loving to me. I have less of a connection with a person who yells, blames and bullies due to things they experienced in life that made them that way. Can't one person be healthy, other than stressed from living in such a stressful situation? Doing the right thing all along the way. I have read and reflected about how I must have some issues because I attracted this situation in the first place and a couple of years of therapy could not detect any major issues I had that made me attract this kind of person. In fact, having two previous relationships with people from unavailable mothers and somewhat unavailable fathers, i was trying to get away from that angry type of persona(only discovered after the initial attraction and love phase), and my wife morphed into exactly what I needed until 1 year after marriage. Good people are often attracted to BPD types who are often attractive, and who manage to convince them they are the perfect person, with no issues, yet hiding them all along. I call this deceptive behavior as opposed to something I secretly craved.

And yes, I am trying to control the T because the ones I've had so far are truly unable to have any effect. They allow us to voice issues which only exacerbate issues further.

Again, I have seen a therapist. What I need is for her to see someone who can push the envelope. I don't need her going there for another couple of years, hiding her true self and living her life as she has been.

Why can't it all rest with my w? I really want to know that. Its said all of the time and perhaps its right most of the time, but why can't an angry, emotionally immature, narcissistic, yelling, anxiety ridden, obsessive compulsive, blamer be the sole cause of problems in a family with nothing else to really worry about? Are kids with a BPD mother responsible for her behavior? Certainly they can learn coping skills from a T, but after gaining those coping skills, do they really need more therapy if they are otherwise healthy? I believe meditation can help Nons deal with this. Add in the coping skills here and you have the best way to survive this. No you can't help them, you can't make them do anything, but you can protect yourself. It would just be nice if you could go to someone who would ask questions and investigate all allegations. My dream therapist would say, Yes, you may not be connecting with your wife, but considering 9 years of abusive behavior, I can see its hard to have that connection. She really needs to confront her anger issues so she can have a healthy and happy life.

Wouldn't more families and more people in general be better off if they were confronted?

I would gladly take any criticism, and have fixed everything I know how to. I have not become the perfect husband to a person like this, where I hug her everytime she goes off on me, but I am only human also. If you're saying I need to go to therapy to become the person who can withstand the barrage, then hug and make it all better, while she stays the same then whats the point. I've even done that too, but I can't change my perspective on what is right and wrong? I cannot support attacking abusive yelling behaviors when they are precipitated by a distorted viewpoint of what abuse is. Because I never see it the negative way she does. If she thinks someone disrespects her and she wants to yell and scream at them, is that her problem or is it mine to support her no matter what?

Its like Reese Witherspoons husband saying to the cop who she is yelling at, that he "had nothing to do with this". Is he wrong for not supporting Reese while she is wasted and going off on the officers? or is it her problem to find her own happy balance in life?

Sorry for the long diatribe.

[arabella]

It could be 100% her fault. Every single thing that ever comes up as a disagreement or argument or disappointment could be her fault. It just doesn't matter. Why? Because she can't see it. Of course you would want to know if you had a problem. Of course you would want to know what you could do to fix things. You don't have BPD. It's sort of like, if a person who had delusions knew when they were delusional, it wouldn't really be a problem. Same thing with BPD. So you're kind of stuck. We aren't telling you to work on yourself because we think that's going to fix it, or that you're the problem - we're telling you because that's all there is. It sucks. Ultimately, you can't help her and you can't fix her and neither can anyone else - she can only help herself. Either you learn to deal with her or you leave her. It's kind of a no-win situation.

Your best bet it is to find a T who specializes in treating people with BPD. See that T on your own and gather what advice you can get in terms of getting her to go too. You need a specialist. If you do a search you will find all sorts of threads about marriage counselling involving pwBPD. They all say the same thing - it's mostly useless and often makes things worse. A T who doesn't know what they are doing with a pwBPD is probably going to be throwing gas on the fire. Confrontation is generally not considered the best way to treat BPD, at least not to start - again, it's the nature of the disorder, confrontation and/or blame generally only makes things worse. It takes a lot of skill to successfully treat BPD - most of those Ts also work in groups.

It would be good for your kids to see a T of their own. Someone neutral who can listen to them and help them to understand that things are not their fault. You may be able to mediate and guide yourself through a lot of it, but these are children and it is their mother - that sort of thing can leave a lifetime of damage. Perhaps check out the boards here for people trying to cope with BPD parents - they may be able to give you some tips on how to help your kids through all of this.

[eniale]

Re:  your former post about possible therapy:  when I first went to my therapist & mentioned my ex said he would come for counseling, (never got to that stage though, I got fed up with him)  she responded that out of consideration for him, she would have to have a private session with him and then we could both come to her for couple's therapy.  Perhaps that is the protocol for all therapists.

[whatshappening]

Thanks for the thoughts and letting me vent. I may or may not look into the BPD skilled therapist or something new I saw which I read in a magazine, about a Confrontational Therapist that in one -5 sessions gets you either back into the relationship or moving on. That's something I have been wondering about for years and now its seems to exist somewhere. Definitely will look into the therapist for the kids. Of course now that I put this all out there, things again seem to be calm and fine... . for a while... . Its so much easier to vent when its all crumbling down. I appreciate the responses... .