Latest Ploy to Get Out of Child Support - Filing for Disability

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My boyfriend's (GoodDad's) BPDx was served papers to come testify as to why she had not yet paid a cent in child support for Girl. (She gets weekly, court-supervised visits with Girl and Girl's half-siblings, who are currently in foster care.)

Apparently she has hired a disability attorney to argue that her mental illness makes her disabled and she can't be expected to pay support. She's trying to get disability benefits.

She owes over $3000 at this point. She has never made an attempt to pay. In that time, she has mentioned several jobs, both above and under the table that she has had. She just got a another new pickup (her last one was impounded because she didn't bother to license and insure it).

This woman completed her Bachelor's degree and half of a Master's degree. In psychology. So she does know how to manipulate and she is capable of completing tasks.

A few months ago, she tried to disown Girl, but local law didn't allow for that. She even tried to get GoodDad to give up Girl so she could be adopted by others. 

I completely agree that she is unstable and mentally ill... . She's an unreliable worker, for sure. But I seriously doubt that she is absolutely unable to work at even a McDonald's or something. I believe she is simply unwilling and she is now using this as her latest ploy for a meal ticket/absolution from responsibility.

What can we do? 

I have screenshots of her talking about various jobs over the past year. But we can't testify or anything. It's not a lot to go on, as it is.

I am livid. She has a hearing in July to see if she gets the big prize pack or not. This is so unfair to her daughter. And just unfair in general.

[ExtraMom]

My boyfriend's (GoodDad's) BPDx was served papers to come testify as to why she had not yet paid a cent in child support for Girl. (She gets weekly, court-supervised visits with Girl and Girl's half-siblings, who are currently in foster care.)

Apparently she has hired a disability attorney to argue that her mental illness makes her disabled and she can't be expected to pay support. She's trying to get disability benefits.

She owes over $3000 at this point. She has never made an attempt to pay. In that time, she has mentioned several jobs, both above and under the table that she has had. She just got a another new pickup (her last one was impounded because she didn't bother to license and insure it).

This woman completed her Bachelor's degree and half of a Master's degree. In psychology. So she does know how to manipulate and she is capable of completing tasks.

A few months ago, she tried to disown Girl, but local law didn't allow for that. She even tried to get GoodDad to give up Girl so she could be adopted by others. 

I completely agree that she is unstable and mentally ill... . She's an unreliable worker, for sure. But I seriously doubt that she is absolutely unable to work at even a McDonald's or something. I believe she is simply unwilling and she is now using this as her latest ploy for a meal ticket/absolution from responsibility.

What can we do? 

I have screenshots of her talking about various jobs over the past year. But we can't testify or anything. It's not a lot to go on, as it is.

I am livid. She has a hearing in July to see if she gets the big prize pack or not. This is so unfair to her daughter. And just unfair in general.

[ExtraMom]

Maybe what I'm wondering is if she can really go on disability for BPD (or Bipolar Disorder, which she also has but she never agreed she had BPD before so I'm betting she's just claiming the Bipolar).

Can she really do this?

Because if you can get disability pretty much just for being selfish and lazy, then the line will get much longer... .

[marbleloser]

Check with your attorney.Disability counts as... . income So,if she's drawing disability,part of that should go to cs.

[pastthemission]

It sounds like at this point it would make more sense to take away her visitation rights than keep trying to get child support from her.  She sounds unstable and like it's not healthy for her children to be around her.  That said, I do know some people who have gone on disability for mental health issues.  Of course they were in all day treatment and thus could not have a job.  It's actually very hard to get disability for mental health issues so it sounds like she might just be wasting your time. 

[ExtraMom]

She has been going to court-ordered therapy as part of the provisions to try to regain custody of her other two children. Since then she seems to have fully embraced the "insanity defense" for everything.

Girl comes home from visits asking us to hide when we drop her off next time because, "Mom gets upset when she sees you and her therapist says she shouldn't see you because she gets too upset so you should park far away and let me walk to her place."

So we know she's talking to the kids about how she's not responsible for her own actions and placing blame on GoodDad for simply existing and taking Girl to visitation. (This after a period of BPDx screaming at us to get off "her property" as soon as we delivered Girl to the supervisor (not even ON her property - on the sidewalk or the alley in front of her apartment). She has convinced Girl that GoodDad is responsible for BPDx's tantrums and outbursts and it's not her fault because she's mentally ill. And Girl feels sorry for her mom and wants to make it better. It's disgusting.

(We don't talk to her at all during drop off/pick up. We hand Girl off to the supervisor and once we see that she's in the supervisor's care, we leave.)

Thankfully, the visits are supervised. I am most certainly going to argue against any possibility of unsupervised visits in the future.

This is not the first time she has wasted our time, so hopefully they see through her BS. She's just been so good at getting stuff in the past. I'd certainly hate for taxpayers to end up supporting her.

[marbleloser]

I love that she thinks she deserves custody because she thinks she's mentally ill.Don't think I've ever heard that one before.

What I'd do EM,if I were you,is let H drop you off down the street and take D to his X by himself.That way any outbursts can't be blamed on you in the future.Then he comes and picks you up while D is visiting her mom.

[DreamGirl]

So if you can slip on your empathetic, logical shoes on for a moment. Try and lay down your emotions when it comes to her really poor parenting. Shelve your defensiveness of the suffering of your Stepdaughter at the hands of her Mama and look at her as someone who is suffering from mental illness.

Mental illness is real. Bipolar Depression can be debilitating with the recovery being extensive and difficult. I've suffered from situational depression (most of have) and it lends me a certain compassion and understanding when trying to imagine what someone who suffers from a recurring (unexplainable) depression must go thru.

Here is a really good explanantion:  

The human brain operates, much like your automobile, on fluids called neurotransmitters. Just as your automobile has brake fluid, antifreeze, transmission fluid, and oil - your brain runs on these neurotransmitters. The brain neurotransmitter often associated with depression is called serotonin. Serotonin is the brain's "oil", a rather slow-acting neurotransmitter that is associated with sleep, appetite, energy, alertness, and mood - just to name a few.  :)uring long-term high stress, the brain burns its' oil, serotonin, at a higher rate than it can replace!  Your neurochemical level of serotonin drops and you become depressed.

In depression, your brain will then turn against you. It will reach in your memory and pull out every bad memory it can find - abuse as a child, failed relationships, etc. - anything to make you feel bad and especially guilty. You will be tortured by your own thoughts. When depressed, your brain begins running a mental "video tape" of your worst hits/experiences.

This also helps with the BPD aspect of it:

 

The Chemical Brain

The brain cells that make up the brain’s structure don’t just sit there—they communicate with each other. They do so through powerful chemicals called neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters are the chemical messengers that transmit signals from one neuron (brain cell) to another. The communication between neurons maintains all body functions, and informs us when a fly lands on our hand or when we have pain.

The brain requires a very precise balance in the level of various neurotransmitters. A mountain of research shows that when those levels aren’t exactly right, the result can wreak havoc on how we think, feel, and act.

We know of about 50 neurotransmitters. Most have at least one special job in controlling the brain and bodily functions. Some have more than one.

For instance, the neurotransmitter serotonin helps regulate body temperature and our ability to fall asleep. It also plays a role in mental health conditions such as BPD, depression, anorexia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Dr. Joe Carver (www.drjoecarver.com, another great resource) suggests we think of these neurotransmitters like the fluids in our cars: engine oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, or anti-freeze. In a car, we can measure the levels of those fluids with meters or dipsticks.

Unfortunately, the body doesn't have a built-in dipstick for neurotransmitters, says Dr. Carver. Instead, professionals evaluate neurotransmitter levels by looking for indicators in thought, behavior, mood, perception, or speech that are considered related to levels of certain neurotransmitters.

In people with BPD, Dr. Friedel says, some of those circuits just don’t work properly. Greatly simplified, the levels of certain neurotransmitters are too low, too high, or have one of many other impairments. This can happen for a multitude of reasons.

For people with BPD it’s usually the same ones: ones that control how we think, reason and process information; ones that control emotion; and ones that control impulses.

Does it excuse behavior and the neglect of the kiddos? Absolutely not.

But does she qualify for Disability based on her inabilities? I don't know that either; but what I do know is that she could based on my knowledge of mental illness and the difficulty those suffering from it can face. Many individuals living below the poverty line (or those incarcerated) are facing untreated mental illness.

It seems so simple to those of us who aren't. Get a job. Get an income. Pay for your kids.

It's not so simple though. It just isn't. It could be that she is working hard not to pay child support more then she is working hard to pay it. There is shame and guilt in this dynamic that could be pushing her actions. I can't see my kids = I'm a bad mom = BPD defensiveness = poor coping skills (rage, projection, avoidance).  

Life is scary to those who aren't equipped with coping skills and a set of tools in dealing with fear, authority, and inner-relationship skills.

I'm not excusing her or her actions. It's just looking at the situation with a set of eyes that leads to accepting her as she is instead of expecting her to be someone she is not. We are driven by protecting, providing and loving the children... . and she simply is not. So the expectation of "love your kids more then you love yourself" is what drives our anger. The problem is that she doesn't even know how to love herself properly, let alone her children.    

My long winded point is that perhaps she does deserve disability. Let her and the govermentment entities figure that out. Just keep doing what you're doing, prioritizing the kiddos and trying to balance what is best for them... . even when that includes learning to adapt to whatever it is that she is doing.

 DreamGirl

[ExtraMom]

What I'd do EM,if I were you,is let H drop you off down the street and take D to his X by himself.That way any outbursts can't be blamed on you in the future.Then he comes and picks you up while D is visiting her mom.

I should have been more clear. She freaks out on GoodDad, not me. She does not acknowledge me at all. I am a non-entity to her. It is not my presence that she objects to, but his. Although, if I or GoodDad's parents or anyone else did the drop off/pick up, it would quickly become an issue with her, as well, I am sure. But she has split him completely black and painted him as the reason for all of her problems. I just ride along to record her outbursts and be ready to dial 911 if necessary. ... . And she is the one who insisted that visits be on her property, so, we aren't changing a thing.



As for whether she "deserves" to be on disability or not, I have no doubt she is mentally ill. What I dispute is her ability to make enough money to pay her child support each month. She could if she tried. She made money to bail her husband out of jail on numerous occasions. She made money to pay her traffic fines when they arrested her. She made money to buy all her video gaming equipment and new games all the time. She can make the money. She has ranted that she doesn't want to have to pay anything to GoodDad, and frequently claims that he is using Girl as his meal ticket. It's all about her hatred of him and has nothing to do with Girl.

If she is so terribly unstable that she can't care for herself and must go on disability then she should be in an institution. She should certainly not be allowed to be around her children and manipulate them as she does.

I do not have it in my heart to feel bad for her. I have known, loved and forgiven many people with mental illness. Some who have wronged me, personally. But not this one. She has done far too much damage and felt far too little remorse. I can't try to understand as she once again seeks to avoid any kind of consequences or responsibilities.

Maybe I need to pull the "Aspie" card as MY excuse. I have difficulty dealing with irrational people, so my "disability" exempts me from caring a whit about how hard it is for her as she screws everyone over.

(DreamGirl, my anger is at her, not you. I do appreciate your response. I just... . I just can't do it.)

[ExtraMom]

My long winded point is that perhaps she does deserve disability. Let her and the govermentment entities figure that out. Just keep doing what you're doing, prioritizing the kiddos and trying to balance what is best for them... . even when that includes learning to adapt to whatever it is that she is doing.

Indeed. It is just so frustrating.

[sanemom]

My ex was bipolar, and I lived with him.  I WISH he would go on disability.  Then my girls would get at least some money.  I truly do not believe he is able to hold a job--he couldn't get out of bed one day when we were at Disneyworld because he was so depressed.  He won't get on disability bc he is either too depressed to do it or he is manic and thinks he can hold a good job.  So... . my girls get nothing.  I think I have gotten a total of $600 of CS in the 7 years we have been apart.  I don't even know how much he owes.

My husband's ex didn't pay CS for 7 years. 

It's a good thing we are able to take up the slack and work extra, but it IS frustrating. 

I can empathize with you on that, but it is hard to make a judgment call on how disabled the ex is... . a professional gets to decide that.

But I will tell you that at least with disability, the kids will get consistent CS; without it, it will likely be hit or miss.

[ExtraMom]

Knowing that it could mean that Girl can actually get child support (we never really expected BPDx to ever pay any) makes it a bit better.

It's just that right after the hearing, I bumped into a friend who had brain cancer and had nearly half his brain removed. He was on his way back from a rally at the Capitol, protesting a recent attempt to cut his disability benefits.

It infuriates me to know that she is claiming this and I don't think she deserves it. While this guy is out there volunteering with kids with cancer and stuff and he has to fight to keep what benefits he gets.

I dislike unfairness. I dislike the thought of having to support her. I am proud to support him.

But true... . they may decide that she's full of it. Who knows?

[DreamGirl]

I dislike unfairness. I dislike the thought of having to support her. I am proud to support him.

I dislike unfairness too.

It's all around me though, and we can't control what others do.

I was a teen mom. I had absolutely no business having a child at 17 - no parenting skills and no job skills, hadn't even graduated high school yet. I definitely qualified for welfare (didn't go on it because of the financial support of my parents) and with the father going AWOL, I would have gotten the full benefits (medicaid, food stamps, etc.).

Lots of people could argue that I didn't deserve it.

I'm sorry that you don't think her mental illness qualifies her, but it's just something that you can not control the outcome. By showing screen shots of jobs she's had in the past, you are trying to... . make her suffer consequences? make her get a job? make her... . not be BPD?

Why is this so important to you?

My stepkids' Mama is below poverty line. She has a job (and has kept it!) but does not have the drive (or the self confidence) to further herself. That's OK. As hard as it is to believe, she's doing the best she can with the set of skills she has.  

Yes, it's frustrating that my husband has to compensate for that but it's the reality of the situation.

ExtraMom, let her do what she needs to do. It's only unfair if you focus on her being different.

To me, to many of us, mental Illness is just as serious and debilitating as cancer is. It's, unfortunately, less treated, less properly diagnosed, less covered by insurance and more stigmatized then cancer.

And maybe, just maybe, with her ongoing requirements for therapy - being on disability will further her treatment. Which is what those suffering from BPD need most of all... . and what would be best for your SD. How great it would be for her to learn how to function better as a Mama?

-DreamGirl  

[ExtraMom]

I suppose I am wrong to be angry.

I hope she gets everything she deserves in life.

[DreamGirl]

I suppose I am wrong to be angry.

I hope she gets everything she deserves in life.

I don't think there's morality to feelings. It's not "wrong" to be angry. It's not "right" to be angry.

It just is.

We're all working thru the anger, the frustration, the injustice... . the unfairness.

I don't want to invalidate your anger. I get angry too... . my stepkids' Mama owes my husband money (for medical reimbursements) and is going on a grand vacation this next week with the girls. My knee-trigger reaction is "GRRRRRRRR". The hubs too. We then have a choice. Does the hubs call and demand the money that she owes is now payable and due and if she doesn't pay, he's gonna take her to court? Or do we accept that her priority is a vacation, not a bill (which is about status quo for her priorities) and tell the girls to have a good time? Deal with the money issues when she gets back?

A pwBPD lives their life in emotional reactions and responses. Feelings = Facts. It's easy to get caught up in it reacting to their emotions with our own emotions and running around in circles trying to apply logic where logic doesn't apply.

We have no choices in how it is we feel. We do have choices in how we react.

Ever read about Triggering, Mindfulness, and WiseMind?

[ForeverDad]

It's not "wrong" to be angry. It's not "right" to be angry.

It just is.

We're all working thru the anger, the frustration, the injustice... . the unfairness.

I don't want to invalidate your anger. I get angry too... .

We have no choices in how it is we feel. We do have choices in how we react.

This reminds me of something written nearly 2000 years ago to the Ephesians:

Be wrathful, and yet do not sin; let the sun not set with ​you​ in a provoked state... .

[newlymarried]

Even filing for disability, BPDmom should have an imputed income through the courts. There are Dads that are in jail and still have to pay support. If the court is involved, wouldn't they just take the child support out of every check she got; be it tax refund or disability?

[Free One]

ExtraMom - I think I understand what you are saying. It's irritating as hell to see my ex buy a $45,000 car, keep the nice house we bought together, travel, take son to do all kinds of fun activities and buy him toys, but he doesn't pay his CS or if he does it's late. And, he doesn't consistently have a job. He's worked 6 months out of the last 18 months. I often wonder how he does it and where the money comes from. It makes me angry and is completely unfair. I'm having a hard time letting it go and I think it's because it's not really about the money. It's about the control. In his mind, CS is not about caring for his son, it's paying ME. Since I am painted black and the root cause of all his unhappiness, then in his mind I don't "deserve" the money and he thinks he can control me by not paying. That's what irritates me - he's still trying to control me and it feels likes he's trying to punish me for whatever he thinks I did to mistreat him.

[mamachelle]

Hi ExtraMom,

There are some members here wishing for disability benefits for their adult children with BPD.

It's hard to swallow but as others have said, it may be a blessing in disguise.

I think it's time to mentally write her contribution out of your monthly budgeting. If money comes then great... .

My exBPDH owes well over $20k in child support not even including his half of child care, medical, education, etc.  in good years the government seizes his tax money.

He couldn't save a penny to save his life when we were married. I don't see how that will change.

If you've filed with the state they will keep track and collect as they can.

 mamachelle

[pastthemission]

Wait, are we talking about someone with Bipolar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder?  Either way, yes the woman is mentally ill but the two disorders are very different.  It's annoying they have the same acronym because my PCP accidentally wrote down my diagnosis as bipolar and I was like 'noope'.