It's possible my daughter suffers from this also

[benny2]

I have been envolved with a man that I believe suffers from BPD and have done much research on this. I am now questioning the fact that possible my daughter suffers from this also. I know that childhood trauma tends to lead to this disorder, but does anyone know if a medical conditon could also lead to this? My daughter was diagosed with severe chrons disease at the age of 12. The doctors said she was at least 2 years behind in growth and development from this. After aggressive treatment she shot up in height but her maturity level never seemed to progress where it should be. She is now 20 and still depending on everyone else. She is afraid of being alone. She won't even stay alone for one night. She is able to work, but uses her money very unwisely. She cannot handle any form of responsibility. She is very immature acting. She pouts if she can't get her way, even over little things. It is actually embarassing for me have my friends witness this behavior. I know BPD is a part of the brain that runs the emotions that stopped developing at some point. I am wondering if possibly that is what happened to her from her illness. Has anyone ever known this to happen? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Benny

I really have not heard of this but it could be possible. Your daughters Chrons disease was caused by what? and does she still have it? Some GI problems are due to a neurological disorder and I have two daughters one with BPD and one without. My dd without has many neurological problems. I feel there might be some kind of carry over but I am not sure. Certainly my younger daughter has AHDH... . my older daughter feel she also has some problems in this area but she has never been medicated for it.

Have you thought about taking her to the doctor for an evaluation? so you can get a DX? I think this is the place to start.

[benny2]

Her crohns is uncurable. She will have it the rest of her life. It is an autoimmune disease that affects the digestive system.  There is no known reason for cause. It is thought to be a heiretary gene with a combination of other things. I guess yes it would be wise to consult a specialist on this. I doubt that i will get her cooperation though which is going to make it pretty pointless.

[jellibeans]

my older dd has POTS which is also an autoimmune disorder... . she also has EDS... . joint hyper-mobility... . it is a genetic disorder which causes GI problems.

IS your dd defiant?

[vivekananda]

Hi Benny,

It interesting you should ask this. In one of my IL families there exists both Crohn's and BPD. But I don't think the conditions are related though. It would definitely not be that one causes the other.

Nevertheless a stressful situation can add so much distress to a person prone to BPD, that I feel it is possible it could exacerbate the BPD situation.

The childhood trauma that they refer to usually means a psychological trauma I believe, eg physical or sexual abuse. Most of our children here, I believe have not experienced physical or sexual abuse, but have felt the pain of living in an invalidating environment. It is not a feature of our culture to be validating, most people are able to cope very well enough with this, but if you are prone to BPD, your emotions rub raw and need the soothing of validation.

Those teen years are important for our children to learn how to soothe themselves and change their thinking and behaviours. Social immaturity is a common feature of our kids. My dd is 32, competent in the eyes of the world (who don't really see), but she struggles with accepting responsibility for her behaviours. I have always worried about her social maturity.

I know BPD is a part of the brain that runs the emotions that stopped developing at some point.

I don't think it is quite like that. BPD is a disorder of behaviour that is the result of limited neural pathways connecting parts of the brain I believe. Why this happens is probably genetic, early childhood trauma and possibly other stuff. It is possible to change this way of thinking and behaving. Just as it is possible for us to change our way of thinking and behaving - if we put our mind to it.

Is your dd in treatment?

Vivek    

[benny2]

She is refusing treatment. She sees nothing wrong with the way she acts. I can't help but think the fact that she matured so slowly due to the crohns, it has slowed her emotionally. She has been living with her sister with the intention to go to school where she lives. 2 years and no school. My daughter is tired of her being dependent on them. I can understand. She totally takes advantage of everyone. She told me today, she is coming back here. That is fine, I would never refuse her, but I am not going to let her come here and take control of my life which is what she does. Tells me I have to be home every night because she is afraid to be alone. Tells me who I can associate with. Keeps tabs and harasses me wherever I go. She does not get in trouble or do drugs of any kind, except her prescriptions, but she is completely irresponsible. Her behavior is that of a 12 year old. So much of her behavior reminds me of the man I was envolved with. Although, she is not in any relationships, god forbid, I do not yet know what the outcome of that will be. She has the fear of being alone, the moods swings, the silent treatments, the paranoia, the controling attitude, very insecure. I brought her in for therapy when she was about 15 and the therapist said it was pointless because she would not talk. I did coddle her when she became sick and took control of all her needs. Possibly I made her codependent? There was no abuse of any kind to her so I just don't know.

[qcarolr]

benny2

It is really hard when our distressed kids do not accept their psychological problems. So common to project them on another - usually a mom that has a deep well of love. When you add medical illness to the mix, it hooks us even closer. Regardless of whether there is formal dx, the path to managing your relationship with your DD can become better. And you can learn ways to lessen the impacts of her immature and manipulative behaviors.

The causes of BPD vary and can be complex. It is easy to get caught up in searching for the cause and miss the opportunities to make our lives better. We have to find ways to accept our kids are who they are, and we are powerless to change them. We can only change ourselves - get stronger with self-care actions, get clear on what is important to use (core values), develop solid boundaries to protect these values, and learn to make action plans to be consistent in enforcing our boundaries. The intent of these boudaries is to take care of ourselves, not to change our kids behaviors.

My DD is turning 27 on Monday. She is currently homeless, though she and bf are staying in apartment with friends. Sleeping on the floor and having bathroom and kitchen is better than living in the park. She has been too aggressive in pushing the boundaries to stay in our home. Hard choice for dh and I - took help from a new T for me to get strong enough to stick to our boundaries. And re-reading lots of articles and workshops here. My DD never participated in therapy, though she has been in several since age 5. She signed herself off at 16. She sometimes takes meds for depression and anxiety - the dx she is willing to accept.

She also has a documented, serious learning disabilty. This led to lots of failures as a child, and attachment problems with dh and I. We have been in strong denial for many years about this attachment stuff. These two things really impacted her development at crucial stages -- brain development. There is a lot of new studies compiling last 10 years of brain research on interpersonal r/s. THis has hlepd me understand better what may be happening in DD and why it is so hard for her to accept treatment.

If you let us know what areas you want to focus on in your healing path, we can put some links here for you to read. Keep coming back and let us know how things are going. We care.

qcr  

[KsMum]

I understand that Crohns disease is quite common in people with Asperger's Syndrome, which is much more difficult to diagnose in girls. Is there any possibility she is Asperger's?

[benny2]

Thank you so much for your responses. I will look into the aspergers. Sometimes this all this seems to be to much. Dealing with a man with this disorder and then my daughters problems. It is causing issues with me and her sister,( my oldest daughter) also. I keep telling her we all have to stop enabling her in order for her to grow up, but she keeps throwing the responsibility on me and making me look like I don't care. That is not the case, I love my children dearly and gave them my complete attention while they were growing up. My marriage was not a good one, so I revolved my life around them, now I want my life and they just don't undertand that.

[benny2]

I looked into the asperger's symptoms and that does not seem to fit her. She is very social, although is most definately a follower when it comes to her friends. She will dress like them, act like them but if one of her friends gets into things like drugs or something, she is not afraid to tell them they need to stop which is about the only sign of maturity I have seen in her.

[KsMum]

The thing with aspergers is that it appears to be different in boys & girls , one of the things is that girls are inherrently (scuse spelling) more empathic & social than boys ordinarily.

My son is asperger's and although he struggled with the social skills to keep friends he made when younger, he now has a large genuine friendship group. He was taught social understanding at his last school which *really* made a difference.

Our daughter thinks she has BPD and definately not asperger's, but this could be because she has always been jelous of the attention our son got. I'm now looking at the differences between aspie girls & boys & comparing ASD with BPD because, in our case, I'm still wondering, but I do tend to side with BPD.

When I read your post I though "ok, fair enough" but then I saw you put "she's not afraid to tell them they need to stop". If she were asperger's it wouldn't be that she isn't afraid to tell them, it would be that it's not logical that they take something that she considers to be stupid to take and doesn't have any recognition of the social norm of being diplomatic, so she tells them. It's all very logical.

I used to worry about my son when he was younger because he wouldn't see anything wrong in going up to yobs in the street to tell tham they shouldn't have just thrown their rubbish on the ground and that they should take it home & throw it in the bin. I used to think he's bound to get beaten up one day for that. Luckily, now, he's learnt why that's not a good idea LOL.

Life is such a strain eh? , but we carry on, doing the best we can with the tools we have. Whatever happens, you'll know that you couldn't have done any more than you *have* done & that's what I cling on to.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

I have a son with Aspergers, and a son with BPD they are like the sun and the moon. I see no behaviors that cross over. My Aspy was awkward and odd at school and had very few friends, my BPD son was charismatic charming and had many friends. My Aspy cannot tell a lie, My BPD cannot tell the truth.

Chalk and cheese

[mamachelle]

She is refusing treatment. She sees nothing wrong with the way she acts. I can't help but think the fact that she matured so slowly due to the crohns, it has slowed her emotionally. She has been living with her sister with the intention to go to school where she lives. 2 years and no school. My daughter is tired of her being dependent on them. I can understand. She totally takes advantage of everyone. She told me today, she is coming back here. That is fine, I would never refuse her, but I am not going to let her come here and take control of my life which is what she does. Tells me I have to be home every night because she is afraid to be alone. Tells me who I can associate with. Keeps tabs and harasses me wherever I go. She does not get in trouble or do drugs of any kind, except her prescriptions, but she is completely irresponsible. Her behavior is that of a 12 year old. So much of her behavior reminds me of the man I was envolved with. Although, she is not in any relationships, god forbid, I do not yet know what the outcome of that will be. She has the fear of being alone, the moods swings, the silent treatments, the paranoia, the controling attitude, very insecure. I brought her in for therapy when she was about 15 and the therapist said it was pointless because she would not talk. I did coddle her when she became sick and took control of all her needs. Possibly I made her codependent? There was no abuse of any kind to her so I just don't know.

Hi benny2,

It is possible that your DD has comorbid disorders going on. She could have xyz with BPD traits.

I have a SS10 just diagnosed with PDD-NOS (Pervasive Development Disorder- Not Otherwise Specified) which is a sort of catch all for anything on the autism spectrum -- soon to be replaced with the DSM V with just Autism I guess. His mom has BPD and he has many of her traits. He is also seeming more immature as he grows older and is fairly social but struggles with friends. I read somewhere that there are literally hundreds of ways to be diagnosed on the autism spectrum. He lies all the time and also has the b/w thinking.

I also have another SS15 who is really a nice kid and does not lie.  Both kids now dx with autism PDD-NOS and both completely different personalities.

What matters more is not what caused this, but how you plan to manage your life with her as she continues into adulthood and perhaps moves in with you again.

There are definitely resources here to help-- here are 2 that can get you started. You may have seen these dealing with your break up... . but they can definitely help with your DD too.

I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better - Gary Lundberg and Joy Lundberg

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

  mamachelle

[benny2]

Thank you mamachelle, I had a long talk with my oldest daughter today which is whom my daughter lives with. She is not accepting the fact that there is a problem. She thinks this is normal  behavior for her age and that she is just immature. Although, she preceeded to tell me how she lies all the time, she manipulates to get her way and she uses people. I told her, this is NOT normal behavior for a 20 year old. She will not work with me at all on this idea of convincing her to get help. She even told me her therapist said this is normal behavior for her age. I am completely being black balled on this.

[vivekananda]

benny2 you sound frustrated, and that is understandable. Most of us here have children who refuse treatment. Most of us here have family who cannot understand the reality of the situation, the need for treatment. Many of us find it hard when other family supports our children without having a clear understanding of the situation.

Is there any chance that you could suggest that if they think there is no need, but you are still worried, that your dd could be assessed and you would accept the findings of that assessment? You, of course, would foot the assessment bill to have your worries allayed. Page 48 & 49 talks about diagnostic tools to assess BPD in the Clinical Guidelines for the Management of BPD (Aust), you can download the pdf for free, see below:

National Clinical Guidelines for the Management of BPD (Aust)

You may need to stop trying to push for change however. At 20 she is legally an adult and there is nothing much to be gained to force the situation. When those of us with adult children with BPD are in this situation, our focus becomes working on what we can do to improve our relationship with our children. This starts with acknowledging that we need to change the way we do things (you I think have started on this journey). We then proceed to learn as much as we can about BPD, and the tools we use: values based boundary setting and validation. This board is great for us to discuss our journeys and gain support from each other.

Let us know what you think, ok?

Vivek