Ever notice moments of clarity in someone with BPD?

[Tordesillas]

I have recently ended a 3 year relationship with a wonderful girl who unfortunately suffers from BPD.  It was a difficult relationship and this process of breaking up has been just as difficult.  Finding a place like this with people who understand the nature of what I'm going through means a lot.  

Something I find myself thinking about often were the handful of precious moments I had with her where she seemed to have a sudden clarity.  It was usually during some deep and vulnerable conversation.  Sometimes it was in the exhausted moments after a big fight.  It was different than when she would "say what I wanted to hear" in an effort to keep me from leaving or manipulate the situation.   It was like some wall came down or the clouds parted and she could see that there was something at the root of her behaviour that wasn't quite clear and needed help in sorting through.  It was very peaceful and almost beautiful.  She would acknowledge it and even express a very sincere desire to do something about it.  I relished those moments.  I just wish they could have lasted longer.  Inevitably the wall would go back up and the clouds would return and sometimes she'd completely forget that she ever even acknowledged that she need to get some help.  

Has anyone else ever had these moments of clarity? Do you ever wonder if you could have done more to help those moments last longer?

[findingmyselfagain]

Tordesillas,

Based on my experience, it seemed as if we resolved our differences and came to a meeting of the  minds and that our relationship was growing. The arguments seemed a little strange at times, the intensity, but we always seemed to make up and come to an understanding. The weeks leading up to our wedding shower seemed to be some of the best we ever had. It was only after our wedding shower (never made it to marriage... . realize now how much of a blessing that is!) that I saw the full-on crazy-making. She did seem to have her moments of clarity but as it says in one of the articles here. It could be as much about enmeshment and fear of abandonment for them as it is any real clarity or genuine desire to change.

Why would we want a relationship with someone who only had "moments" of clarity and understanding? Why wouldn't we want to be with someone healthier? We need to look inward and move onward to grow. I felt the guilt for a long time. Now I've accepted that we could never have a mature or healthy relationship. It's sad in a way that things are often very difficult for the pwBPDs, but important for us to move on and learn to pursue healthier people... . especially as a life-long partner.

[grad]

I had known her for about 8 months and we had been dating only 2-3 weeks but yes, she experienced a moment of clarity, almost like a eureka/epiphany, once after one of her episodes where she'd fight the vulnerability and anxiety by trying to push me away/end it.  Her demeanor completely changed, she said to herself "I need to stop doing this" and that's when I brought up my suspicion of her BPD.  She asked what it was, I read her the symptoms from Wikipedia, and she said "that's me, what's the treatment" and when she found out it was therapy, she adamantly said she'd never do it alone.  It was never mentioned again by either of us until a few weeks later when she decided she wanted to see someone else and I sent her a text saying she should probably seek help for her "borderline personality."  It really offended her at the time and she said that I shouldn't tell someone that if I ever want to speak to them again.

Fast forward 4 months later (we're still on speaking terms although she's still with her new guy), she was mentioning her mother was "borderline psycho or something" but that she felt her mother hallucinates and was probably schizophrenic, then mentioned that she herself needed to see a psychiatrist.  She has a very good memory and I'm certain she hasn't forgotten what I said.  When they're not seeking professional help it's treading a very thin line.

The question I have for you is was this girl diagnosed or undiagnosed?

[KellyO]

Not moments of clarity, no, but he once said something that made me understand he does see how he acts, he just does not see any other way to cope. He said "I always have to try to get rid of people who care about me". By that he meant two people, me and his support person (he was alcoholic). When he said that I could see he was in great pain. And there are other situations like that. This made me understand that the problem is not that he does not see himself. He does. The problem is that he is adamant in his belief that there is no other way to cope in this world for him. He can't see options. It is very sad.

[MammaMia]

Tordesallis

Welcome to BPDF.  You have lots of company here.  We all love pwBPD and know what this disorder does to relationships.  

I do not know how familiar you are with BPD, but you will find so much

good information here.  While you and your BPDgf are not together any longer, this information may help you to understand more about this very frustrating illness.  Simply stated, it is caused by a malfunctioning of the wiring in the brain, and the symptoms of BPD are pretty much identical in everyone who has been diagnosed with it.  You are not crazy... . but this disorder is.

To answer your question, Yes, I have noticed periods of "rationality" with my BPD son.  Sadly, they are not frequent.  BPD causes intense mood dysregulation and

bizarre, distorted thought processes along with many other symptoms.  There are ways to interact with pwBPD to try to reduce the conflict.  

Please checkout the material we have available.  I think it will be helpful.  Thanks for joining us.  You are among friends.

[Tordesillas]

Grad:

- She did start seeing a therapist but kept the contents of those sessions private.  She never told me if she was given an official diagnosis.  But I have my suspicions that she wouldn't have told me.  I suppose I blame myself somewhat for this.  Early on in our relationship we were discussing our families (Her sister is diagnosed Histrionic and her mother and father both suffer from undiagnosed disorders)  and I mentioned that my Grandfather once told me never to marry someone with a serious mental illness and that I agreed with him.  My Grandmother had been severley bipolar and while he loved her, he had a very hard life because of it.   My girlfriend really took this to heart and once confessed that she was afraid to face what was going on with her because if she did and was diagnosed with something, I would leave her.   

[Clearmind]

Has anyone else ever had these moments of clarity? Do you ever wonder if you could have done more to help those moments last longer?

Yes my ex was a talented person in many ways and we would have good discussions. However, when it came to relationship issues our discussions were often circular.

Could I have done more? Possibly! Do I regret that I didn't do more? No! Its not my role to fix him.

[mango_flower]

Yep - after she had shouted and sworn at me once towards the end of our relationship (the actual year we were together, she treated me amazingly, no nastiness towards me at all, only other red flags which I ignored), I emailed her and said something about her behaviour.  Her response was something about how she was only trying to get me to show that I loved her, and she knew it wasn't the right way but she didn't know any other way and she knew it wasn't the right way.

I found that very honest, and it showed that she had some clarity at that moment. 

I actually find it more frustrating than anything else.  Because it shows that there WAS potential to have fixed all of this before it imploded.  Maybe if she'd had no insight, I'd not have had the false hope that we'd have been ok.

[Rocknut]

Yes, my BPD boyfriend actually said once, "I love you. I know you wont believe me tomorrow. I will be a different person because something is wrong with my brain. I think I have a chemical imbalance."

These we few and far between

[Whichwayisup]

Completely agree with this, got to the point in my RS that we nearly knew something was quite wrong but didn't know exactly... . She would say"she's crazy and can't control her moods" I would say "I can't fix this, I'm at my wits end" then she opened up on my birthday in January this year saying "what so you want me to say, that I can't stand every minute not knowing what mood I'm gonna be in? I'm afraid of being sectioned" She then backed off when I raised that conversation the following week justifying to us that it was delayed onset of post natal depression from several years ago (whilst it doesn't explain our 13yr relationship) I am deeply frustrated that it felt we had come so close only for her to run into the arms of someone she met in the pub.  I had discovered BPD and thought she had nearly got to the place of seeking help (which I was prepared to be there for).

Broke my boundary and its forever over now from me.  Knowing about BPD since January has not minimised my pain or made life easier against her irrational and confusing treatment of the kids... . I now wish for NC to last as long as possible.  I have those anxious pangs each time the text message bleep goes off... . Expected a volcano of abuse last night and got a" thankyou, that's ok"... . I think that's as much a case of her living in the moment as her moments of clarity... . Am proud that I am about to hit 2 month mark without being in the same house as her... . Just feel the need to use the fast forward button on life

Whichwayisup

[Magick]

I tend to believe there are likely many more moment of clarity and rational-thinking in pwBPD than a partner would ever know about. The shame associated with the disorder would make it very difficult for some of those thoughts to be shared - especially with a partner since the fear would be that it provides 'reason' for the partner to abandon them. Any moment of clarity that are shared as certainly very courageous acts!

To answer your question directly: Yes. My ex shared many thoughts and realizations with me and it was her who rushed into therapy out of fear "her issues would eventually ruin us" (and this occurred prior to any of those issues being visible).

The closer we became, the more difficult I think it was for her to continue sharing those things. But I also realize that there were times where I was listening to her, but not truly hearing what she was trying to say.

It's tough losing a wonderful person like that - especially when you know it happened due to a disorder and them simply being unable to deal with things in a more effective manner.

I'll ditto one of the last things she said to me: "Right person. Wrong time."

[benny2]

Yes mine pwBPD has made comments like, I feel like I am going in sane, whats wrong with me, I am a sick man, and I know I push people away. He completly isolates me (sIlent treament) whenever I express my feelings of hurt that he causes me to feel. This last time I told him he is a disburbed person and has BPD. I'm not sure I will ever hear from him again. Although, he has admited he has a problem, coming from me most likely has a completely different meaning.  Its been 4 days with no contact from him. He will not answer my messages and I have given up. Hopefully he will have another moment of reality and realize I am right. I do miss him and want to help him, I do love him but I cannot continue these games any longer. He needs to face his demons and do something about it. The last message I sent him said The sad part about this is, you have pushed away the one person that cares about you the most, and thats me.

[patientandclear]

This made me understand that the problem is not that he does not see himself. He does. The problem is that he is adamant in his belief that there is no other way to cope in this world for him. He can't see options. It is very sad.

Exactly.  In our most recent period as intimate friends, my ex would say "it seems like all of life is coming to terms with loss," and muse that sustained love is impossible and all we can aspire to is to "tell lies to ourselves and get the other person to believe them too, for a little while" (after a few awkward ventures into discussing this, I told him this was the one area I couldn't discuss with him because it would make me too sad -- I wasn't going to argue with him about whether love was possible when I was standing right there loving him like crazy while he denied it was possible).

Like you said KellyO, I can see that he sees no other option.  He thinks it's all futile and all he can do is survive the fact that no one will ever love him for himself and stay with him and not disappoint him and ... .   And he's developed some really powerful coping strategies for that reality.  And he no longer seems to expect to form a sustained intimate r/s (he's on a hermit path it appears).