Can extinction bursts be self-spurred by a pwBPD before getting help?

[nomoremommyfood]

I'm sorry for posting on here all the time, lately. Luckily, this isn't the same woe-is-me whining but a genuine question. I'm wondering if pwBPD ever self-exert an extinction burst upon themselves? For example, exhibit one last "go" at their former, dsyregulated selves before deciding to change their behavior?

I've noticed my dBPDbf making steps toward becoming a better person. For example, he'd begun apologizing instead of denying culpability and expressing remorse when hurting someone. I've been urging him to return to treatment and he's gone from avidly refusing to giving me his social security number to find his disability insurance plan and make an appointment "to consider." I thought I was imagining this change until his friend called, saying he'd also noticed positive behavior, and we should both encourage my bf to seek treatment. Notably, my boyfriend has been on a losing streak at the racetrack and claiming that - if he doesn't start winning by the end of the summer - he'll quit gambling... . a 25 year addiction.

However, things seem to have suddenly turned for the worse. He seems to be pushing away anything and anyone not associated with gambling - ignoring or fighting with me, blowing off band rehearsals, and turning down opportunities to play music or read his poetry. His attitude toward myself and his friend has also gotten crueler.

It seems obvious that he's throwing himself into an addiction to avoid having to live up to his words. But I'm also wondering if, taking positive changes into account, he's exhibiting a burst of bad behavior knowing his soothing tactic - gambling - may soon be removed?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

First, your posts haven't been whiny and they are not too numerous!  We all go through periods in which rapid frequent consulting and checking in is very helpful.  No worries on that score.

About this post -- it's an interesting idea.  Where I'd question it is the part about "before deciding to change their behavior."  I think that imagines a natural progression that cannot be assumed.  Can there be periods of hyper dysregulation following periods of improvement and greater clarity?  I would say clearly yes.  :)oes that mean behavioral change will follow?  I would say there is little reason to assume that.

In my case, all fall & spring, my pwBPD showed some interest in developing a more robust, resilient r/s with me -- and committing to a particular career path, and just generally maturing and not being so cataclysmically reactive and impulsive.  He engaged in some repair work with me several times when we hit snags in our r/s, he made important gestures toward being less rigid, more accommodating, seeing that I was a separate person & acknowledging our separateness in a way that valued who I am.  He even had a conversation with a friend of mine about how she shouldn't move for the sake of moving, because sometimes, you need to stay where you are and dig in and see what you can discover by doing that.  It was a big deal.

Then in a flash he decided to sell his place and leave town, and within a few weeks of leaving town, announced he was moving to a new city where he knows no one and where there is no particular reason for him to start up (he has since changed that plan too and so far as I know is back on the road, which he said "feels like coming home".

I think playing around with the idea of stabilizing and making some long-term commitments and choices did really cause him to dysregulate.  The closer he got to that the scarier it became -- these people and projects he was choosing might disappoint, inevitably will disappoint actually, and he'd be foreclosing whatever the other possibilities are that are out there, just around the corner.

But I don't think that means he is necessarily going to resolve this by realizing that it really is better to commit and settle down and build something.  I think he may just keep going.  There is no sign that he is acquiring insight into what is happening, and in fact, he seems to be pulling around him like protective armor a values system that says freedom from constraint is all important, that attachment (to people, places, things) is the enemy of truth and enlightenment, and so on.  So though I do think this spectacular spasm of pushing away is about him having done some serious work which led him to the brink of making real commitments, he clearly backed away from that and I see no sign that he is going to reconsider.  He will probably continue to change and try different arrangements to see if they feel better, back and forth between staying somewhere and leaving everywhere, embracing "the road" versus turning longingly back toward "home," but I don't see this resolving.

Your guy sounds like he has had some movement toward healing, but now is pushing that away.  Where he goes from here could be constructive -- or not.  I will say I haven't seen much evidence on this board of fundamental behavioral change by pwBPD.  I have seen evidence of fundamental behavioral change by their partners, partly in giving up on the hope of fundamental behavioral change by pwBPD

[nomoremommyfood]

Patientandclear, I'm always happy to see your posts - though I'm appreciative of all the help I receive on these boards, I find you replies to be among the most insightful and relatable.

Where I'd question it is the part about "before deciding to change their behavior."  I think that imagines a natural progression that cannot be assumed.  Can there be periods of hyper dysregulation following periods of improvement and greater clarity?  I would say clearly yes.  Does that mean behavioral change will follow?  I would say there is little reason to assume that.

This is totally astute. And I think you make a strong point that - while we see progression followed by regression, or pull/push, it may not be so linear to them. Things might not follow such a clear path and, to them, these moments of clarity may just happen to be lumped together... . not indicative of actual progress. About a week and a half ago, my bf and I were discussing how we could avoid his moodiness leading to unnecessary fighting. When he proffered, "I've got an idea" I expected, "we just don't hang out at all." But it was an actual suggestion - "when I'm in a bad mood, ask me to rate my mood on a scale of one to ten. If it's over a six, I'm likely to be too volatile to hang out." I was stunned by this tiny move toward finding solutions instead of just ending things. But what I saw as progress could have totally been an anomaly. And there's our own confirmation biases hanging around, too.

You also mention that your pwBPD showed a pretty overt interest in a better relationship and way of life, then suddenly reverted toward the opposite. I'm wondering - do you see the shift as a push-back or just the reemergence of BPD behavior?

The "feels like coming home" reminded me of a Nirvana lyric, "I miss the comfort in being sad." Perhaps their disordered ways are - in a way - safer to them, with "normalcy" being a foreign concept that doesn't feel "right"?

I do see that there's not much good in holding hope over another person's behavior - something you inherently don't control. I do see hope in changing my own behavior to be better equipped in dealing with him.

[patientandclear]

The "feels like coming home" reminded me of a Nirvana lyric, "I miss the comfort in being sad." Perhaps their disordered ways are - in a way - safer to them, with "normalcy" being a foreign concept that doesn't feel "right"?

Yes, that Nirvana quote nails it.  I think for at least some pwBPD this is a huge issue.  When they entertain the possibility that they have found safety and stability, the stakes go way way up.  Suddenly the risk of loss is enormous, & the suspicions that you (or whoever) will disappoint them, that it's all too good to be true, that it cannot possibly be safe, become overwhelming.

And this is why it is so hard for things to get "better."  Sadness and change and impulsivity and starting over and disappointment are the norm and yes, they know how to deal with that.  Settling in to a good feeling feels incredibly dangerous to them.  I can see so clearly that that is what happens with the guy I care about.

Clearly it is very hard for them to just feel their way along with this stuff.  But even with professional help, the basic relationship patterns seem rarely to change.  The only thing that seems very susceptible to change is our reactions.

 

[nomoremommyfood]

And this is why it is so hard for things to get "better."  Sadness and change and impulsivity and starting over and disappointment are the norm and yes, they know how to deal with that.  Settling in to a good feeling feels incredibly dangerous to them.  I can see so clearly that that is what happens with the guy I care about.

This makes perfect sense. And it seems even more apt that, along with general improvement, his blow-up and gambling spree was directly preceded by an exceptionally mature conversation followed by sexual intercourse, followed by plans for a date with a wedding that weekend. The actions of a "normal" couple... . not an "evil scumbag" like him. His view of himself is remarkably distorted. The guy's astoundingly smart, funny, and one of the best musicians in the city, yet he believes himself worthless. It's heartbreaking.

Are there any examples of a pwBPD "getting worse before they get better"? Hitting rock bottom before self-realization? Just curious (and blindly hoping).

Clearly it is very hard for them to just feel their way along with this stuff.  But even with professional help, the basic relationship patterns seem rarely to change.  The only thing that seems very susceptible to change is our reactions.

Though he improved with previously individual and group DBT, I'm not expecting miracles and hoping only for baby steps to improve his quality of life. However, can you elaborate on "the only thing very susceptible to change is our reactions"? Would this mean detachment or a more mindful mode of communication?

[waverider]

Dysfunction can be their comfort "fog" in which they hide from the real world and responsibilities. This does not mean they enjoy living in this fog, so they try to break out every now and then.

Sometimes an outburst, gives them that rock bottom feeling that sickens them into trying to emerge from the fog to better their lives as they often know that is what they would really like, ie. to be "normal". Eventually they find they cant cope once again, and retreat back into the fog of dysfunctionality like a comfort blanket.

The cycle starts again

[waverider]

This why at times they can seem incredibly insightful, but not having the tools to follow "the ideals" if you like, leads to failure and a greater sense of hopelessness, which is covered with denial. Back into the fog for comfort.

[arabella]

Are there any examples of a pwBPD "getting worse before they get better"? Hitting rock bottom before self-realization? Just curious (and blindly hoping).

I'm sure there are, but the current members online here are a bit of a self-selecting group - for the most part anyone with a partner who had BPD and got better is off living their life and being all happy about it. So most of us here are with pwBPD who aren't better. But maybe search through the sticky thread at the top of this board, dedicated to success stories - you might find something there!

Though he improved with previously individual and group DBT, I'm not expecting miracles and hoping only for baby steps to improve his quality of life. However, can you elaborate on "the only thing very susceptible to change is our reactions"? Would this mean detachment or a more mindful mode of communication?

I think both detachment and more mindful methods of communicating are essential. They go hand in hand too. It's very hard to communicate effectively without detaching sometimes. Also, reinforcing desirable behaviour and setting up boundaries to protect ourselves (although these could just be sub-categories of detaching and communication).

[waverider]

Though he improved with previously individual and group DBT, I'm not expecting miracles and hoping only for baby steps to improve his quality of life. However, can you elaborate on "the only thing very susceptible to change is our reactions"? Would this mean detachment or a more mindful mode of communication?

I think both detachment and more mindful methods of communicating are essential. They go hand in hand too. It's very hard to communicate effectively without detaching sometimes. Also, reinforcing desirable behaviour and setting up boundaries to protect ourselves (although these could just be sub-categories of detaching and communication). [/quote]
I think we also learn to be realistic about what can be done and what cannot. Realization that a happy life does not mean converting everything back to what is usually accepted as normal. Dysfunction doesn't always have to be hard, it can be just different.

A lot of "normal" people have horrendous relationships.

A rewarding life is the goal not "normality"