Unable to accept radically.

[Jeansok]

I knew something was off before when we were dating, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I have NEVER been treated the way he treats me and never saw that side of him until after we were married. We both have excellent families of parents who are both still together and I certainly wasn't raised that way and from what I can tell he wasn't either. He has some good friends that he's known forever and has been through previous marriages ( I know red flag there, 2 previous) but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I've read BPD can stem from things from the childhood and from what I can see he didn't have a bad childhood... .

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[waverider]

While the process of the relationship is much as is being discussed here, I don't think that it is as deliberate as you make it sound.

A lack of real sense of self means they have few deep seated opinions and interests. They also feel as though they have little worth. So when you first meet they want to feel worth something and be of use. So they appease you, they take on your interests and moods, in short mirror you.

As mirroring is only superficial those common adopted interests and needs wear thin and cant be sustained. As you are now entrenched in a RS the waning desire to follow those interests falls, conversely there is an increasing sense of security which lessons abandonment fears. So the mask slips. neither of you receives the validation you need, and as invalidation is a core trigger for BPD, conflict ensues.

At this stage you know nothing about BPD and so try to deal with conflict using logic, which is invalidation trigger no 2. Everything escalates from here. You fear the conflict, so back off and compromise, they don't compromise. The goal posts move. So it goes until you are shocked just how far it has gone, and wonder how it got there

You think you are dealing with a series of unrelated dramas. Finally you find out about BPD, and realize not only are the dramas from a single source, but there are background ripples that have spread throughout your life affecting everything. You have become dysfunctional yourself, isolated, loss of self confidence, your life circle has shrunk. Resentment sets in.

This is why it is a long haul back to at least some level of normality as you have slipped a long way, and you are dealing with someone who does not do compromise and lives in a mental state of conflict and denial. For acceptance of any responsibility means acceptance of all responsibility which to them says they are a complete looser and always will be. So it becomes an uncompromising fight to avoid responsibility at all costs

This process is not planned manipulation, it is a result of short term impulsive behavior which invariable back fires as there is little substance behind it. A Veneer, or facade, will always fail under consistent use. If a veneer is all you have it will fail repeatedly, which eventually reinforces abandonment fears and defensiveness.

A predictable sequence of cause and effect

[waverider]

I've read BPD can stem from things from the childhood and from what I can see he didn't have a bad childhood... .

BPD is like a cancer of the mind, there are many conditions, some genetic, some situational, these can all increase the odds of developing the disorder, but non can be singled out to guarantee it. You could have all the risks, but be fine. You could have one and develop it.

Once the disorder has taken hold though it can be self fulfilling as it increasing creates situational conditions which start to reinforce it, especially if no one around you understands how to interact with it.

[Wishful thinking]

You have become dysfunctional yourself, isolated, loss of self confidence, your life circle has shrunk. Resentment sets in.

You are right wave rider. This explains in total as to what im going through. Is it okay for me to say that i now see the source of all the above. And this is why i feel the resentment and then lastly feeling incapable of fully accepting all.  

In the meantime my H sees me as a failure who cant deal with him. But in actual fact BPD on its own is enough for him to feel of little worth.  

[musicfan42]

Waverider, I'm sure that a borderline would have a different interpretation on what he/she does however I really have to view it from my own perspective.

I agree that BPD doesn't always come from a bad childhood... . clinicians still don't really know what causes it. They have a theory that it's a combination of emotional vulnerability plus an invalidating environment. I don't know if it's self-fulfilling so much as an individual's personality starts to really develop around adolescence and the teenage years. BPD is usually not diagnosed in under 18's however there can often be symptoms very early in the person's life.

[waverider]

Waverider, I'm sure that a borderline would have a different interpretation on what he/she does however I really have to view it from my own perspective.

I agree that BPD doesn't always come from a bad childhood... . clinicians still don't really know what causes it. They have a theory that it's a combination of emotional vulnerability plus an invalidating environment. I don't know if it's self-fulfilling so much as an individual's personality starts to really develop around adolescence and the teenage years. BPD is usually not diagnosed in under 18's however there can often be symptoms very early in the person's life.

pwBPD interpretation on what they do usually is different to ours. Often they do not know why, but black and white thinking dictates they need answers, so often they can make their own skewed interpretations. Some are actually quite insightful, yet still cant help it, much like an addict.

Self fulfilling in a sense that once "odd" and antisocial behavior starts to appear the sufferer starts to be shunned, ridiculed even bullied. Constantly told they are being stupid and need to get their act together, often even by their parents. The sense of failure sets in, they start to hide their behaviors, lying, denying becomes normal behavior. Self harming kicks in. They can start RS with easily triggered aggressive people, as that feeds their need to project anger. In otherwise they often end up in an environment where there is no "normal", So regular folks do abandon them.

They are all different though so you cant say one case fits all, just that the risk of heading down an unhealthy path increases.

Traditionally it was not diagnosed until later years as the long term dysfunctionality is one of the things that defines it from other disorders and regular teenage rebellious behavior. Discussing this with the DBT Ts in my support group meetings indicates that there is a trend to try to diagnose it earlier, even as early as 15, or at least flag it as a possibility, in order to head off this potential entrenched behavior and also its impact on teenage suicide.

You are right though regardless of why they do what they do, all we can do is work out the best way to deal with how it affects us, and what we can do to make our lives more tolerable. Lessening the temptation to think that it is some long term plot against us, and ultimately against themselves,, helps us get over that resentment block. Which is essential to even think it is worth the effort at all.

[waverider]

You have become dysfunctional yourself, isolated, loss of self confidence, your life circle has shrunk. Resentment sets in.

You are right wave rider. This explains in total as to what im going through. Is it okay for me to say that i now see the source of all the above. And this is why i feel the resentment and then lastly feeling incapable of fully accepting all.  

In the meantime my H sees me as a failure who cant deal with him. But in actual fact BPD on its own is enough for him to feel of little worth.  

Yes you go through a lot of stages as you learn about this. First you are lost with no idea what the lay of the land is. You get a map, you feel better, then you realize you are lost in a huge mountain range with no obvious path or way out. That is when you go through the anger and resentment stage, as you know it is not your fault. The map allows you to avoid the worst of the peaks, but you still can't find you way out as the mountains stretch to all sides of the page.


Acceptance is NOT about saying ah well they cant help it I just have to cop it. Acceptance is about working out what is important and what is not TO YOU. Initially we draw up a list of what we would like to change, get on a roll and end up with an impossibly huge list that is overwhelming.

Acceptance is about realizing they have a disorder and we cant shoehorn them into being "normal'. There is a lot we can change about the RS, especially once we realizing that we trigger them unnecessarily, we can avoid and defuse a lot of the conflict, we can create a calmer environment. Mainly by establishing firm boundaries around those things that deeply wound us and just allowing a lot of the other minor stuff to just flow around us without having the impact it does if we hold resentment.

Acceptance is only part of the equation, on its own it will end up in the eggshells scenario

When they act like the sun shines out of your backside, they believe it.

When they think you are a slimeball who crawled out of the pits of hell, they believe it

This lack of consistency is one of the reasons they struggle to maintain a long term plan or agenda.

My partner cant stick to a plan she made an hour ago, let alone play out a long term conspiracy to trash our RS she may have planned on our first meeting. Impulsive and reactionary thinking sabotages any long term strategic planning, especially when it has no long term benefit.

It is amazing though how all these individuals who all live in the impulsive "now' thinking, all end up developing similar stories as though they are following a BPD RS manual.

The only thing we can change is our reactions, that is the only way to break the circle, on the basis of of every predictable action provokes a predictable reaction, thus creating a predictable process.

[musicfan42]

waverider, I appreciate your input. I agree with some of the points you've raised. Yes, borderlines struggle to maintain long term plans. I agree that being invalidated as a child probably does play some role in the development of BPD. I agree that early intervention into BPD is needed because it will just get worse over time if left untreated. However, there are other points you raise which I wouldn't agree with. That's perfectly fine-I think it's good that everyone gets the opportunity to share their opinions here. It's good to hear a mix of voices and opinions on this issue as it can sometimes broaden your own perspective.

[waverider]

waverider, I appreciate your input. I agree with some of the points you've raised. Yes, borderlines struggle to maintain long term plans. I agree that being invalidated as a child probably does play some role in the development of BPD. I agree that early intervention into BPD is needed because it will just get worse over time if left untreated. However, there are other points you raise which I wouldn't agree with. That's perfectly fine-I think it's good that everyone gets the opportunity to share their opinions here. It's good to hear a mix of voices and opinions on this issue as it can sometimes broaden your own perspective.

Thats the difficulty with BPD, as opposed to physical ailments, and even many other mental illness, there is a lot of theories, and maybes, and not many solid facts. All pwBPD are different for different reasons and to different degrees., many are cormorbid with other disorders. There are many treatments available utilizing different approaches. Some work for some and few work for all, and some pwBPD wont respond to any. Most wont even admit to it, or turn up to T if they do

Thats why we are all scratching our heads. The idea of this forum is not to provide be all and end all answers, but to share ideas that have worked for us, so that we can try what has worked for others and see if it works. Some things will and others wont.

Thats before we even throw NPD into the mix... . and the differences between high and low functioning

Its one of these things that seems so simple, but in application its far from it.

No wonder many Ts wont even go near pwBPD.

A working knowledge of the whys is important, but its is equally important to not get bogged down in it. What we can do to aid OUR INDIVIDUAL circumstances and get on with our lives is the main focus. I guess thats where we get back to the Radical Acceptance subject again, to try and do stuff we dont understand, because it just may work without really knowing why