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Author Topic: Why are so many of us devastated by our breakup with a BPDso.  (Read 841 times)
Hurtbad
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« on: May 28, 2013, 01:20:36 AM »

Okay, I am still a newbie, but somethings are so common in our experiences that I need someone to answer some things for me:  A look at our screen names show heart ache and devastation.  My own is an example of that.  Also, the posts are filled with broken hearts, crying and mood changes.  I have broken up with normal people, I was sad and it took time; but  I was not brought to my knees like this.  What is it about BPD and/or us, that results in such devastation? 

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Mr Bean

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 01:33:52 AM »

Those are BPD are not normal. They are so different. When they love you, you feel like you are everything to them. They make you fall in love easily. They pay too much attention and you feel like you have found your soulmate. But they can change in a matter of second and you keep wondering if everything was real. If it was a dream or something. They could just turn from loving you in one day and painted yoy black in the next day. They can just turn off their feelings like there is an on off button because they are lack of empathy. Normal people don't do like that. But BPD, all they think about is themselves. How would they make themselves happy. Its always about me me me and me. That's why in the end you feel like you re feeling now. Keep wondering, what the hell happeened? And you keep asking yourself, what have I done wrong? Why can't she be happy? Luckily you found this site, if not you might its all about you.  We are all in the same boat man
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VeryFree
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 01:39:23 AM »

We were together with our BPDSO for a reason.

I think the NONS can be devided into two groups:

- The group that was dumped or got out of the r/s within the first year.

- The group that was in the r/s for longer.

The first group is devistated, because the most of the r/s was the 'pink-cloud-period'. Both were in love, things were great, mostly because of the mirroring. This group shouldn't worry to much about their own issues.

The second group is devistated, because they were a long time in an abuse r/s. They were in there, not only because they are nice people. I think healthy people won't stay in this kind r/s for a longer time.

Like me, people that were for a longer time in this kind of r/s, should look why they were in it.

So: being abused and having some issues why a person is in this r/s, are why the long-term-NONS are devistated IMHO.
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Mr Bean

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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 01:58:50 AM »

Yeah, that's so true. I was in long distance relationship for 3.5 years. I always took the personal abuse and kept waiting for her to go back to idealization stage. I was even scared to her cos if I said something it might upset her. In the end I just stayed for the sake of her till she dumped me for another guy
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 10:08:22 PM »

Excerpt
I think the NONS can be devided into two groups:

- The group that was dumped or got out of the r/s within the first year.

- The group that was in the r/s for longer.

The first group is devistated, because the most of the r/s was the 'pink-cloud-period'. Both were in love, things were great, mostly because of the mirroring.



Well put, VeryScared.  As someone who fits into the first group, I can tell you that it's like getting everything you ever wanted for a very short period of time (mine was 8 months), being told that the person giving it to you will never take it away, believing that they are yours forever (because they said you were their soulmate) and then having them snatch it away, paint you black, and hate your guts.

It leaves you wondering what you did wrong.  In my case, I feel as if all the color drained out of my world.  Overnight my world went from technicolor to grey.  Because when they love you, you really are over the rainbow.  Then when they suddenly break it off and can't even tolerate your presence long enough to tell you why, you crash back down to earth.
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NonBPDSpouse

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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 03:24:05 AM »

We were together with our BPDSO for a reason.

I think the NONS can be devided into two groups:

- The group that was dumped or got out of the r/s within the first year.

- The group that was in the r/s for longer.

The first group is devistated, because the most of the r/s was the 'pink-cloud-period'. Both were in love, things were great, mostly because of the mirroring. This group shouldn't worry to much about their own issues.

The second group is devistated, because they were a long time in an abuse r/s. They were in there, not only because they are nice people. I think healthy people won't stay in this kind r/s for a longer time.

Like me, people that were for a longer time in this kind of r/s, should look why they were in it.

So: being abused and having some issues why a person is in this r/s, are why the long-term-NONS are devistated IMHO.

Maybe for you,  but I always knew things weren't normal... .

Like the first group I was sucked in by being mirrored... . Then we got pregnant and the hook was set.

I cant speak for you, but my "issue" was that I was not going to leave my child alone in a situation that I myself refused to be in... .

Courts don't usually hand over the kids to Daddy because Mommy has BPD... .

There are more than 2 categories... .
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NonBPDSpouse

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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 03:33:13 AM »

As a matter of fact... .  

I think the first group are the ones with issues of their own... .

They are here, so clearly they see the problem, so deal with it and move on.

As long as the hook isn't set, they should clearly see the need to "cut and run"

The are not involved with the person long enough to diagnose anyone with BPD.

I could just be a compatibility issue which is perfectly OK. Its called Life.

It takes more than a year or so to make a proper determination of a personality disorder and I sometimes laugh at these people that are in terrible relationships for 3 months with no children, and they are crying their eyes out and accusing their mate of BPD... .

Maybe she "just wasn't that into you"... . LOL... .

Every woman doesn't have BPD just because she doesn't love you ... .

If you are in a bad relationship short term without kids, get over it and find a new girlfriend.

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VeryFree
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 04:20:50 AM »

For me it was indeed. Those are just my 2 cents. I can and will not talk for others.

I was in my r/s for ten years. We had no kids, so no big reasons to stay in this abusive r/s. Yet I did. Now I now why and believe me: allthough it’s not fun to know, it makes me feel better.

You seem to have known things were wrong from the beginning. Too bad you were tricked in having kids that soon in the r/s. I guess if you had a few more years before that, you would have been out of there. That would have been the healthy thing to do I think. Just like I should have walked out of my r/s after six months.

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Whichwayisup
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 08:49:25 AM »

My 2 cents also,

As the similarities in  behaviour of pwBPD tend to follow the same traits, does it logically follow that ours as nons are just as complementary to their issues? Is there a narrow margin from which our issues also stem? I was ripe for the picking being at Uni and no real lasting girlfriend experience per se… she would always refer to the numerous I had had, but that was only company rather than anything serious…

I'm still in a bit of FOG to be honest but know looking back that my willingness after only a few months to move in with her felt good/natural to me - she had a very young son when we met (2.5 yr old)  and of course they had been treated so badly and abandoned by his biological dad (no idea what truth this has anymore). 

But then I was kicked out on a whim after 18 months as she "didn't know what she wanted" - my rescuing tendency kicked in as my resolve to be with her strengthened, we were soul-mates who agreed to always weather the hard times; this is when in hindsight I should have run for the hills (if not some early rage evident) but alas, I thought I could make a difference - 9 months after makeup joy later, our first daughter was born.

I dreamed to have a family so much and to be the good dad (which I am) that it was almost pre-baked and I could slot into place.  Then came her desire to move house, so I obliged by taking on all the burden as she had previous poor credit (of course from previous relationship).  We married among the highs (and there were lots to be fair) and the lows with me actually stipulating that she had to remain in a consistent mood for 6 months for me to consider it... . she did and soon after our second daughter was born.  I know what part I played in this - like a losing gambler always throwing to recoup losses, it felt natural that I had to try. 

I'm trying to reverse my current devastation by remembering advice I used to offer her and doing them for myself - remembering to relax shoulders, deep breathing, reading anti depression literature etc. Maybe  we always knew the answers but wanted to make it happen so much we chose not to look at the truth – I know that even after realising about BPD I was still wanting to make it work knowing that I would never truly find responding intimacy – now I feel that I have been set free to at least have that possibility – the devastation seems less when I think this way. 

Whichwayisup

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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 10:31:38 AM »

Hurtbad,

First of all... . welcome 

I think it hurts so much because the pain we feel from this particular breakup speaks to our original emotional wound most likely inflicted by our family of origin.  We're replaying a scenario hoping for a different ending this time, unfortunately, our ex's were doing the exact same thing. You cannot possibly receive anything from another you are incapable of giving to yourself.

I don't think your ex caused your original pain but they did rip the scab off a deep wound and caused it to bleed.  One difference between your emotional sorrow and those suffering BPD is the level of damage and the extent of therapy required to heal.

It is entirely possible for you to reach the level of self-awareness you need to identify, treat and heal the emotional scars you carry.  The journey begins with you.

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waitaminute
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 11:29:22 AM »

Hurtbad,

Was thinking about this very thing the other day. After - lost track but about 8 months, and some reconciliation with my normal ex-wife, I'm still amazed at the pull the BPD had on me. Even though I am absolutely certain the BPD would have destroyed my life (and did a good job getting close to it), I feel as though I was under a spell. I hate the implication of an evil intent because I do believe the whole dysfunction was a psychological event... . Not some witches brew. But I *feel* (as opposed to *think*) as though I was saved from some especially heinous death at the hands of an evil witch.

So whatever the psychological equivalent of a "spell" is... . It is the cause of the magnetic attraction and the resultant feeling of loss when we separate from them. As for what I *think*... . I think that these people activated part of our subconscious selves. And in so doing, they gave life to a part of us. The loss is like a death for that inner character. Therapy can help. Because if you can identify what that inner character really is, then you can give it life yourself and have some conscious control over how it should be integrated into your own conscious character.
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2013, 10:45:48 PM »

Okay, I am still a newbie, but somethings are so common in our experiences that I need someone to answer some things for me:  A look at our screen names show heart ache and devastation.  My own is an example of that.  Also, the posts are filled with broken hearts, crying and mood changes.  I have broken up with normal people, I was sad and it took time; but  I was not brought to my knees like this.  What is it about BPD and/or us, that results in such devastation? 

From my perspective it's because we've been convinced to bare our souls to our BPDs.  We give them everything and in the process of mirroring us, we fall into the venus flytrap of fairy-tale romance.   When the dream fades and you start to realize that this person that you've given all you possibly could give, isn't really who you thought they were, you are left broken and discarded.  Especially if they had spent time "love bombing" you in the beginning and turning around and "love bombing" someone new before they've even left your relationship. 

They aren't normal.  It may be cruel, but they are like emotional "vampires" that suck out your love and once they've had their fill of you, they move to another and repeat it.  You must get to the point of acceptance where you know in your heart of hearts that there was nothing you did that could have altered the course of the relationship.  It was doomed to fail from the very beginning if they were not seeking help for their issues. 
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dogpirate
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 04:22:58 AM »

Okay, I am still a newbie, but somethings are so common in our experiences that I need someone to answer some things for me:  A look at our screen names show heart ache and devastation.  My own is an example of that.  Also, the posts are filled with broken hearts, crying and mood changes.  I have broken up with normal people, I was sad and it took time; but  I was not brought to my knees like this.  What is it about BPD and/or us, that results in such devastation? 

From my perspective it's because we've been convinced to bare our souls to our BPDs.  We give them everything and in the process of mirroring us, we fall into the venus flytrap of fairy-tale romance.   When the dream fades and you start to realize that this person that you've given all you possibly could give, isn't really who you thought they were, you are left broken and discarded.  Especially if they had spent time "love bombing" you in the beginning and turning around and "love bombing" someone new before they've even left your relationship. 

They aren't normal.  It may be cruel, but they are like emotional "vampires" that suck out your love and once they've had their fill of you, they move to another and repeat it.  You must get to the point of acceptance where you know in your heart of hearts that there was nothing you did that could have altered the course of the relationship.  It was doomed to fail from the very beginning if they were not seeking help for their issues. 

Very well said.
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laelle
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 04:57:13 AM »

In my opinion its because we failed at completing our FOO script.

Being Co Dependant we have a need to please or save others.  It makes us feel good about ourselves.  Someone with BPD can not sustain moods or emotions.

As good as you try to be, as hard as you try to save them, they will project their emotional garbage on to you and you will become "bad" to them.  You cant be good enough.

You will forever be chasing your tail trying to get your "good, saving" fix, because they cant give it.  You cant fix them, they have to fix themselves.

In the end you feel you have failed.  You gave your all to save them, and still they arent saved.

So, do you go back and try to save again knowing the outcome, or do you move on and work out why you accepted half a relationship for yourself when you deserved a whole one?

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crystalclear
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 06:53:15 AM »

In my opinion its because we failed at completing our FOO script.

Being Co Dependant we have a need to please or save others.  It makes us feel good about ourselves.  Someone with BPD can not sustain moods or emotions.

As good as you try to be, as hard as you try to save them, they will project their emotional garbage on to you and you will become "bad" to them.  You cant be good enough.

You will forever be chasing your tail trying to get your "good, saving" fix, because they cant give it.  You cant fix them, they have to fix themselves.

In the end you feel you have failed.  You gave your all to save them, and still they arent saved.

So, do you go back and try to save again knowing the outcome, or do you move on and work out why you accepted half a relationship for yourself when you deserved a whole one?

Very well put laelle!
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Healing4Ever
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 07:16:28 AM »

I have also wondered and noticed the same thing. 

For me, as someone who stayed in r/s for 7 years, when I really should have left after 3 months, I know it was lack of self-confidence that kept me going, stemming from just being blindsided by my first husband having an affair and leaving for "her", and growing up with a BPD mother.  I was wanting to be saved, and the magical land that happened when he idolized felt like someone finally could see me as a decent person.  I'm starting to identify now how many ways I self-sabotage myself with negative thinking - the same thinking that I believed I was using to help myself become a better person.  Stuff like "What have I done wrong"  "He'll come around and realize his behavior was inappropriate" (which he rarely did in a long-lasting way) "If this r/s fails then something is very wrong with me".   I contributed to our cycle by believing all these things, instead of just trusting that the behavior was wrong and being willing to set out on my own and feel the loneliness and self-recrimination that I'm having to deal with now.  I realize that I'm not very nice to myself in my own head.  And I was hoping that by being with someone who could see me as good, even from time to time, I wouldn't have to figure out how to be nice to myself.  I could just rely on their positive feedback to keep me going.  The bad times really just reflected how I felt about myself anyways, to some degree, so there was familiarity.  It's funny - how many times have I read about negative self-talk etc., and just glossed over it?

And the journey begins... .
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leftbehind
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 09:01:01 AM »

Healing4ever, I too have a hard time differentiating between taking responsibility for my actions, and thinking that everything's all my fault.  I'm just at the point with my T where we'll begin to start addressing this.  But it does keep you in relationships a whole lot longer when you're taking 100% responsibility for fixing the problems.  This is so my nature that I don't even realize I'm doing it, especially because I'm in a helping profession.

Good luck to you, I hope we both can stop blaming ourselves and see our own value.
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2013, 08:53:39 PM »

leftbehind - thanks for summarizing so succinctly.  It's great that your T is helping you to address this!  I am still busy identifying what is going on so that I can get myself out.  I am focusing on switching my mindset so that as soon as I start into "woe is me, I suck" I change it to "I now have the opportunity to grow and heal and deepen my r/s with God (this has become important to me lately) so that I can learn to love completely".

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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2013, 10:45:17 PM »

healing4ever, you sound like you're on a good path
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Billa
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 11:40:16 AM »

Especially if they had spent time "love bombing" you in the beginning and turning around and "love bombing" someone new before they've even left your relationship. 

so true... .
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Chazz
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 03:05:30 PM »

From my perspective it's because we've been convinced to bare our souls to our BPDs.  We give them everything and in the process of mirroring us, we fall into the venus flytrap of fairy-tale romance.   When the dream fades and you start to realize that this person that you've given all you possibly could give, isn't really who you thought they were, you are left broken and discarded.  Especially if they had spent time "love bombing" you in the beginning and turning around and "love bombing" someone new before they've even left your relationship. 

They aren't normal.  It may be cruel, but they are like emotional "vampires" that suck out your love and once they've had their fill of you, they move to another and repeat it.  You must get to the point of acceptance where you know in your heart of hearts that there was nothing you did that could have altered the course of the relationship.  It was doomed to fail from the very beginning if they were not seeking help for their issues. 

LostSunshine, I completely agree... . I don't subscribe to the "they don't know what they're doing, the poor disordered dears" school of thought. In fact, I believe that concept often keeps us NONs in an endless loop of: "Maybe it was me, if only I had known, I woulda, shoulda, and coulda done things differently". That's it's on kind of mine trap.

My recent Ex screamed the following at me the last time I saw her:  "Chazz, it was all a fantasy, none of it was real ! ! ! !" She also said: "I'm moving on to someone who is more upwardly mobile than you. I'm being practical."  That's a gal who knows exactly what she's doing and what she wants. (She had met someone on a dating site and, though she had never met her, was already "love bombing" her new host. I had become a hindrance as the new host wanted me gone, so my Ex "goned" me... . )

Are they disturbed, absolutely. Do they know what they're doing, absolutely YES! They mostly, or entirely don't care. Getting their narcissistic supply matters infinitely more than us NONs. They may have moments of guilt and remorse, but not enough to modify their behavior or seek professional help. Besides, once they split us blacker than black, it's all our fault anyway. 

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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 03:23:23 PM »

Because pwBPD have a great radar for tenderhearted people who gain self worth by helping and rescuing others.  It feels like a match made in heaven for both partners initially, and is a loaded bond: core trauma meets core trauma.  And when a BPD starts projecting their own poor opinion of themselves on us, it feels completely familiar on a core, maybe subconscious level, because that was our experience growing up.  These relationships hurt more than others because the dynamic pours salt in the woulds of our core trauma, wounds us to the core, so to speak.

For me it's been a great opportunity, since I thought I'd done a boatload of work on myself over the decades, but there was the core issue I clearly hadn't dealt with staring me in the face.  It was so painful it was unavoidable and obvious, I thank my BPD ex for illuminating it so brilliantly, and my path forward to complete health is clear.  Maybe everything happens for a reason, and it serves us?
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 04:02:30 PM »

I dont believe for a second that they dont know what they are doing, but they are doing it for their own emotional survival.  They dont comprehend that they have other options in handling their relationships and emotions.  Poor executive and impulse control along with lack of empathy.

So now that we know why they do it, why did we stay?  In the long run its not about them.  They will leave our lives with a mark.  Good and Bad memories, but what did we learn?  They will continue on handling their lives as they always have, how will we change ours?

Not at all saying thank you for the abuse, but because of my relationship with my ex, I am now better equipped to deal with others.  I hear their needs, but I dont bend over backwards to try and fix a situation.  I can say no and mean it.

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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 04:10:53 PM »

LostSunshine, I completely agree... . I don't subscribe to the "they don't know what they're doing, the poor disordered dears" school of thought. In fact, I believe that concept often keeps us NONs in an endless loop of: "Maybe it was me, if only I had known, I woulda, shoulda, and coulda done things differently". That's it's on kind of mine trap.

My recent Ex screamed the following at me the last time I saw her:  "Chazz, it was all a fantasy, none of it was real ! ! ! !" She also said: "I'm moving on to someone who is more upwardly mobile than you. I'm being practical."  That's a gal who knows exactly what she's doing and what she wants. (She had met someone on a dating site and, though she had never met her, was already "love bombing" her new host. I had become a hindrance as the new host wanted me gone, so my Ex "goned" me... . )

Are they disturbed, absolutely. Do they know what they're doing, absolutely YES! They mostly, or entirely don't care. Getting their narcissistic supply matters infinitely more than us NONs. They may have moments of guilt and remorse, but not enough to modify their behavior or seek professional help. Besides, once they split us blacker than black, it's all our fault anyway. 

I agree with you that they are aware of what they are doing... . In that they know that they are hurting people, and some even know that they are in an endless cycle.  I don't think it makes them bad people though.  There is a very distinct line for me between doing something that hurts others because you know no other way and doing something that hurts others when you know a way to do so without.  It is the intent.  My dBPDex cheated on me throughout our ENTIRE 9 month relationship with multiple different people.  :)id she know what she was doing? Absolutely.  :)oes she hate herself for it? You bet.  Maybe my BPDex was further on the path to recovery as she had undergone neurofeedback therapy and was in DBT, but she was consciously aware that her actions were wrong and hurting me.  She just still didn't know any other way to survive.

And you are right, in a way I did stay and put up with it for so long because I had the "maybe I can help her, this time will be different" mentality throughout... . That was me refusing to give up. A lot of it had to do with her being my first ever relationship and first ever love.  I loved her unconditionally.  I had too.  All of my friends, and all of the other people around me saw what was happening and constantly asked me why I was still with her or putting up with her crap... . In many ways I didnt see NOT doing it as an option.  I was an emotional prisoner.  I have always wanted one person I could utterly rely on, one person I could trust to always be there for me and to have my back, whose loyalty was unquestioned... . And because I was so naive and I wanted that person so badly, I made her fit the role in my mind.  And when reality disagreed with the illusion I had in my mind, I ignored it and refused to accept it.  I agree with laelle- I am not happy for all the pain and suffering I went through dating her, but the best one can do at this stage is look back and take something positive from the experience. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 04:30:56 PM »

I feel that the only relationship where unconditional love can be applied is in a parent/child relationship.

All of the other relationships in our life have conditions and boundaries... . as it should be.  Its healthy.  If your friend was always putting you down or your uncle Ernie hit you on your behind when you walked by, would you continue to stay friends with your friend or continue to walk by uncle Ernie?

Why did we overlook that while in the relationship with our BPD partner?
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 04:35:50 PM »

Why did we overlook that while in the relationship with our BPD partner?

In my case it was bait and switch, and when met with devaluation I was shocked, bewildered, in denial, and embarrassed how many red flags I ignored.  Guess I needed to feel the pain to learn the lessons.

The right relationship for me may not be unconditional, but it will have very few conditions.  Another area of unconditional love is with my dogs, both ways: "I'm trying to be the type of person my dogs think I am."
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 04:51:41 PM »

I believe I did not walk away because I was getting what I needed on a "core" level.  I was however allowing myself to be devalued, criticized and verbally abused in order to get my core level fix.

I allowed him to devalue, criticize, and verbally abuse me and in return he gave me what I needed.  What was it that I needed so badly that I would make that kind of deal?

Its much easier to work on those core issues with a T and cut the people out of your life who are hurting you. Its not an easy road, but a healthier one.

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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2013, 04:56:32 PM »

Self-knowledge is fine and good, but I'm dubious about the concept of putting oneself in harms way to achieve self-knowledge. That feels like an after the fact rationale to me - i.e. saying I didn't really need or want that horse after the barn door was left open. Besides, some of us NONs really didn't know we were putting ourselves in harm's way. Not all NONs are co-dependent or adult survivors of family dysfunction.  

Exposing oneself to an infectious disease is one way of studying microbiology. People do not consciously and knowingly volunteer to be a part of such research when they have immune system deficiencies unless they are self-destructive. I'm not self-destructive... .  It's unethical, and usually illegal, to seduce, manipulate, "love bomb" unwitting individuals into volunteering for treatments that are harmful to them. That is precisely what my EXBPD partner did. She always had a private agenda cranking away in her head.

We spend a great deal of time at this site looking at BPD from a psychological point of view. That's fine and interesting. I get it. But there is another component to this that rarely gets discussed or acknowledged. That is the absence of moral imperatives and conscience in many BPD individuals. There was in my partner.

I'm not a religious person, so it's not about that kind of morality for me. But, I am a kind and and ethical person - at least I strive to be. It's been the complete absence of ethical/moral imperatives on the part of my EX that have been the most troubling to me. At times, I was literally looking "evil" in the eye when she went into one of her deregulated rants. I cannot imagine saying or doing the cruel, contempt-laden things to my worst enemy (if I had any), that she has said and done to me.  

I work with the issue of conscience a lot. There are those who learn "good behavior" by rote - simplistic consequential thinking. Others, actually develop a conscience. The ones who develop a conscience fair much better in the long run. Until, and if, that happens, the people closest to them are well advised not to fall into the trap of reading the "bad behaviors" as strictly a mental health problems. That can be a built in pass for the absence of conscience. I know that my EX's soul was deeply damaged through no fault of her own. I will never understand why that didn't matter to her. And yes, I believe in their heart of hearts, individuals with BPD know this about themselves. They make the choice to move on to the next "host" rather than do the "work" to put their souls to "right". That is a moral, as well as a psychological, issue.        
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2013, 05:04:05 PM »

I have never known any individual that did NON have some kind of "core issue". It's part of the human condition. Assuming it's even possible NOT to have one, a NON certainly has a "core issue" at the end of a relationship with a BPD/PD partner.

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« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2013, 05:06:30 PM »

Looking evil in the eye is something that I have also thought myself in the past.  I never said anything to him about it as it was fleeting moments which I later understood were dysregulated ones.

He was forever and continuously telling me "I'm not such a bad guy"  "I'm not a monster"  (I never once told him this, and until the last day of our time together, I never did)

I dont know whether my ex had an actual conscience or if it was learned but not felt if you know what I mean.  I think he is who he is with morally, until he cant hold them up to the light anymore, and then becomes nothing until he finds someone else to hold up to the light.  The nothing cant survive for long.

Thats my take on it anyway.  I do believe my ex should be held accountable for his actions as I am not a doormat.  There is nothing I can do for someone who cant respect me, and I cant be with someone who cant.
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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2013, 05:21:22 PM »

I believe I did not walk away because I was getting what I needed on a "core" level.  I was however allowing myself to be devalued, criticized and verbally abused in order to get my core level fix.

I allowed him to devalue, criticize, and verbally abuse me and in return he gave me what I needed.  What was it that I needed so badly that I would make that kind of deal?

I say it wasn't what we needed but what we were used to; we put up with it because it felt familiar.  What we needed and wanted was love, and either got it in our youth, found ways around the imposed conditions to get it, got something posing as 'love' which was actually abuse, or whatever, and the dynamic of our relationship with our BPD echoed that.  We either get love functionally or dysfunctionally, and now we have a choice.

There is nothing I can do for someone who cant respect me, and I cant be with someone who cant.

Hallelujah!
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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2013, 06:09:10 PM »

I come from a, relatively speaking, great FOO.  Parents never divorced, no abuse one way or another, and very good morals concerning honesty, integrity, and honor instilled in me. 

Thinking about all of this... . I am ashamed.  I am ashamed that I stayed with her and put up and suffered it as long as I did.  I was in denial.  I saw this person who was always sweet and loving and playful, who I spent all my time with, who I loved with all my heart, and who was supposedly cheating on me.  And even when I caught her red handed, I found a way to reason through it (NOT in a good way) and move forward with her.  I tortured myself by staying with her.  My family knew it, my friends knew it, they all tried to come to my aid, and I pushed them all away.  I honestly feel sick about it.  I know the guy she is with now (this is all the past month), he is a good guy from my experience with him.  I have given people advice on here about the whole issue of "feeling like I am all sad and down while they are happy as can be" and "I must've not been good enough she is off with someone else already, and it started while we were together even", but I suffer from those exact same doubts as well.  I think beyond anything, it is knowing she has SOMEONE while I do not.  And I know that I am just trying to fill the gap that she left, and trying to do it hastily isn't going to work out well or be healthy, but god it hurts.

I think it has been mentioned, but I think I got so close to her because she was the first person I ever TRULY opened up to.  I hide a lot of myself behind an exterior which doesn't really accurately reflect who I am at heart, and she is the only one to have seen the real deal.
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2013, 06:24:11 PM »

I come from a, relatively speaking, great FOO.  Parents never divorced, no abuse one way or another, and very good morals concerning honesty, integrity, and honor instilled in me.  

Thinking about all of this... . I am ashamed.  I am ashamed that I stayed with her and put up and suffered it as long as I did.  I was in denial.  I saw this person who was always sweet and loving and playful, who I spent all my time with, who I loved with all my heart, and who was supposedly cheating on me.  And even when I caught her red handed, I found a way to reason through it (NOT in a good way) and move forward with her.  I tortured myself by staying with her.  My family knew it, my friends knew it, they all tried to come to my aid, and I pushed them all away.  I honestly feel sick about it.  I know the guy she is with now (this is all the past month), he is a good guy from my experience with him.  I have given people advice on here about the whole issue of "feeling like I am all sad and down while they are happy as can be" and "I must've not been good enough she is off with someone else already, and it started while we were together even", but I suffer from those exact same doubts as well.  I think beyond anything, it is knowing she has SOMEONE while I do not.  And I know that I am just trying to fill the gap that she left, and trying to do it hastily isn't going to work out well or be healthy, but god it hurts.

I think it has been mentioned, but I think I got so close to her because she was the first person I ever TRULY opened up to.  I hide a lot of myself behind an exterior which doesn't really accurately reflect who I am at heart, and she is the only one to have seen the real deal.

You're opening up to us and showing us the real deal, so kudos for that, and it's growth maybe?

Remind yourself that a pwBPD is never, and I mean never, truly happy and content, not for more than fleeting moments anyway, and the new guy will get cycled through the disorder and spit out the other side just like you did.  And it's not her fault she has the disorder, but it's called disordered for a reason, and your family and friends all saw it too.

You didn't ask me for advice, but the best thing you can do is learn as much as you can about yourself right now, it would be a waste of pain otherwise, and in time you won't think about her, be over the loss, and be more equipped to enter a healthy relationship.  Maybe everything that happens to us actually happens for us?
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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2013, 07:24:55 PM »

I think it has been mentioned, but I think I got so close to her because she was the first person I ever TRULY opened up to.  I hide a lot of myself behind an exterior which doesn't really accurately reflect who I am at heart, and she is the only one to have seen the real deal.

Why do you think you chose this one, incredibly hurt (sick) person who is clearly not trustworthy to open up to? 

I also did some major opening up like never before with my BPDex and am searching for answers as to why of all people I chose him. Mirroring? He opened up to me, and I to him... . But I'm not satisfied with this as an answer.  In general, I'm afraid of trusting people and opening up to them.  I hadn't let anyone get close to me in 4 years due to a really bad breakup and a bit of a life crisis.  I thought I had healed, and was a healthier person, but never felt a convincingly strong connection to someone until I met my BPDex.  My head was spinning.  I did put the breaks on pretty quickly and he moved on, but I am now looking for answers as to why, if I am so protective and guarded, I had such an intense connection with someone like him.  He told me he had BPD.  If he hadn't I may not have read all the horror stories about it and could have gotten caught up in the game.  It was so hard for me to pull back... . Or am I really just normal... . and they can connect deeply with pretty much anyone/thing on this planet?
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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2013, 07:44:13 PM »

Excerpt
I am now looking for answers as to why, if I am so protective and guarded, I had such an intense connection with someone like him. 

me too.  then when he left I was devastated.
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« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2013, 07:58:30 PM »

Why do you think you chose this one, incredibly hurt (sick) person who is clearly not trustworthy to open up to?  

I also did some major opening up like never before with my BPDex and am searching for answers as to why of all people I chose him. Mirroring? He opened up to me, and I to him... . But I'm not satisfied with this as an answer.  In general, I'm afraid of trusting people and opening up to them.  I hadn't let anyone get close to me in 4 years due to a really bad breakup and a bit of a life crisis.  I thought I had healed, and was a healthier person, but never felt a convincingly strong connection to someone until I met my BPDex.  My head was spinning.  I did put the breaks on pretty quickly and he moved on, but I am now looking for answers as to why, if I am so protective and guarded, I had such an intense connection with someone like him.  He told me he had BPD.  If he hadn't I may not have read all the horror stories about it and could have gotten caught up in the game.  It was so hard for me to pull back... . Or am I really just normal... . and they can connect deeply with pretty much anyone/thing on this planet?

Remember that BPD is an attachment disorder; they MUST attach to someone to feel whole, and depending on the severity, they can cease to exist entirely in their own head if they don't connect to someone.  It's a matter of life or death, so they get very good at it.  And since their goal is to attach to someone to make themselves whole, like a baby is connected to its mother, which was the genesis of the disorder, by definition there are no boundaries.  That's one of the tasks for us moving forward, creating and reinforcing healthy boundaries, since I at least completely let them down way too early and in the face of many red flags with my BPD ex.  Live and learn, with emphasis on the learn.
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« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2013, 08:48:31 PM »

Remember that BPD is an attachment disorder; they MUST attach to someone to feel whole, and depending on the severity, they can cease to exist entirely in their own head if they don't connect to someone.  It's a matter of life or death, so they get very good at it.  And since their goal is to attach to someone to make themselves whole, like a baby is connected to its mother, which was the genesis of the disorder, by definition there are no boundaries.  That's one of the tasks for us moving forward, creating and reinforcing healthy boundaries, since I at least completely let them down way too early and in the face of many red flags with my BPD ex.  Live and learn, with emphasis on the learn.

I did not know that about their ceasing to exist. That's a good reminder.

Also, does it mean that ANYONE (healthy, emotionally strong people included) is susceptible to being sucked in, ie: "love bombed" and have that same head spinning intimacy/connection, however not everyone is susceptible to stay once the devaluation starts?  Being with someone with BPD and then reading all about it made me realize that (as I had long suspected but never openly admitted to myself) my mother had been verbally abusive when I was growing up, and my past relationships had been unhealthy as I had not established healthy boundaries.  However, since my BPDex told me he had BPD essentially during the idealization phase, I put the brakes on (established boundaries) and never really saw the devaluation phase. If devaluation ever happened, I wasn't around to see it as he had moved on to someone else, and I was left questioning whether I was right to have established those boundaries.
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« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »

Also, does it mean that ANYONE (healthy, emotionally strong people included) is susceptible to being sucked in, ie: "love bombed" and have that same head spinning intimacy/connection, however not everyone is susceptible to stay once the devaluation starts?  Being with someone with BPD and then reading all about it made me realize that (as I had long suspected but never openly admitted to myself) my mother had been verbally abusive when I was growing up, and my past relationships had been unhealthy as I had not established healthy boundaries.  However, since my BPDex told me he had BPD essentially during the idealization phase, I put the brakes on (established boundaries) and never really saw the devaluation phase. If devaluation ever happened, I wasn't around to see it as he had moved on to someone else, and I was left questioning whether I was right to have established those boundaries.

Good for you, for getting out when you did; consider it healthy.  Less healthy people like me ignored a boatload of red flags, and emotionally healthy people would never do that.  BPD's have good radar for tenderhearted rescuers and such, and wouldn't get very far wirh emotionally strong people.  Again, consider your actions healthy.

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« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2013, 10:57:19 PM »

However, since my BPDex told me he had BPD essentially during the idealization phase, I put the brakes on (established boundaries) and never really saw the devaluation phase. If devaluation ever happened, I wasn't around to see it as he had moved on to someone else, and I was left questioning whether I was right to have established those boundaries.

Unhooking: Setting of healthy boundaries with my uBPDex was what I wasn't willing to do because some part of me knew that he would leave.  I stayed around for 7 years, because of my own insecurities and the hook of BPD idealizing, and the r/s ended when I finally set the boundaries I needed to.  This is when he left.  And he will stay gone unless I relent and tell him I love him and let's just move on and forget everything that happened.  It's been a hellish ride - and I can only imagine I would have saved myself a huge pile of grief if I had just set those boundaries earlier.  I knew within just a couple of months that something wasn't right.  It's true - without your boundary, your ex may have hung around longer, but at what cost to you?  I admire your boundary-setting - I'm still learning!

H4E
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« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2013, 01:50:02 AM »

Exposing oneself to an infectious disease is one way of studying microbiology. People do not consciously and knowingly volunteer to be a part of such research when they have immune system deficiencies unless they are self-destructive. I'm not self-destructive... . It's unethical, and usually illegal, to seduce, manipulate, "love bomb" unwitting individuals into volunteering for treatments that are harmful to them. That is precisely what my EXBPD partner did. She always had a private agenda cranking away in her head.

We spend a great deal of time at this site looking at BPD from a psychological point of view. That's fine and interesting. I get it; I work in that field. But there is another component to this that rarely gets discussed or acknowledged. That is the absence of moral imperatives and conscience in many BPD individuals. There was in my partner.

I'm not a religious person, so it's not about that kind of morality for me. But, I am a kind and and ethical person - at least I strive to be. It's been the complete absence of ethical/moral imperatives on the part of my EX that have been the most troubling to me. At times, I was literally looking "evil" in the eye when she went into one of her deregulated rants. I cannot imagine saying or doing the cruel, contempt-laden things to my worst enemy (if I had any), that she has said and done to me. 

I work with the issue of conscience a lot with my clients. There are those who learn "good behavior" by rote - simplistic consequential thinking. Others, actually develop a conscience. The ones who develop a conscience fair much better in the long run. Until, and if, that happens, the people closest to them are well advised not to fall into the trap of reading the "bad behaviors" as strictly a mental health problems. That can be a built in pass for the absence of conscience. I know that my EX's soul was deeply damaged through no fault of her own. I will never understand why that didn't matter to her. And yes, I believe in their heart of hearts, individuals with BPD know this about themselves. They make the choice to move on to the next "host" rather than do the "work" to put their souls to "right". That is a moral, as well as a psychological, issue.         

You have encapsulated much of what I too struggle to grasp. I partially accept that people suffering BPD are mentally hindered (and I also accept that I have "Co-Dependent" issues which assisted the relationship) but I also feel that I spotted an overriding of moral boundaries which were accepted by the woman in my BPD relationship. She was susceptible to the allure of power and was wary of challenging those with it. I feel she could recognise what might be in her best interests, and she would act accordingly. Such examples as I noted were in fields far from her emotional life and often concerned with career or self advancement. I also witnessed (in my ignorance of BPD at the time) what I believe were genuine fears of abandonment which obviously stemmed from her mental processes. I think the whole area is fascinating and would love to hear of others experiences and feelings if only to find something further and more positive from my experience.
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« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2013, 06:57:43 AM »

Check this out : https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200618.0

However rationally explained... . , it still hurts. The good thing about this is that we are processing. We are in touch with our feelings and emotions and we are actively healing. That's something a Borderliner is desperately trying to avoid. Allow the pain! Be sad, devastated, hurt... . , etc. It's necessary for healing. However, don't neglect your personal well-being. I found it helpful to slowly re-attach to friends. Talk, write and seek help when it gets too much. We're all in the same boat. Posting here and reading about others helps put things into perspective.

Things will get better. Life is good if you allow it to be 

mrclear
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« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2013, 07:20:18 AM »

Excerpt
I am now looking for answers as to why, if I am so protective and guarded, I had such an intense connection with someone like him. 

me too.  then when he left I was devastated.

that's the same for me. And I'm still devastated. I can't accept what has happened, not yet.
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