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Author Topic: Vexxing Question: Was she a sadist?  (Read 593 times)
nolisan
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« on: May 29, 2013, 09:25:16 AM »

I have been healing up for almost 8 months. Doing pretty darn good but a recent date took me back to the ending - it really boggles my mind. The thing that keeps rattling around was did she plan this hurt and betrayal? Was she really evil?

The r/s had been getting really dysfunction. I was rescuing her, she was losing her house and she was trying to manipulate me into buying her house and selling mine with the promise that we would live happily ever after. I was seriously considering her idea but then some inner voice kicked in and I balked - fundamentally I did not trust her and knew buying her house would not "cure" the problems.

So finally she gave up - decided to let her house go and move in with me (and live happily ever after). It lasted a week.

This is a snap shot of the week. All was well. She told me what a great man I was. We slept together but the sex had stopped. She was telling me what a wonderful lover I was and how patient and understanding I was with her sexual anorexia (she was a recovering sex and love addict now "acting in". She told me how she was feeling she was ready to reengage in love making again. We cuddled and I reassured her.

She talked about growing old together. Would I still love her when she had wrinkles?

She told me a story of her grandmother that really grabbed my heart and confirmed her commitment. Her GM had made a choice to marry one man instead of another. The man she truly loved had TB but told her to marry the other interested man who was healthy. She did and her choice turned out bad. He was a terrible man - an abusive gambler and drinker. The moral of the story was to "go with love" despite health concerns.

I have some serious chronic ailments. She said these were not important - she was going to stick with me despite my problems, She was going to follow her GM.s advice. I can not tell you how deeply this effected me: a woman over looking my problems in the name of love.

Day 6 - she told me that she wanted to make love the next night. Wow I thought ... . I was melting and so full of gratitude and joy ... . my greatest dreams were coming true.

Day 7: We were watching a movie that I chose, an interesting happy movie about a man struggles and success. Half way through she stood up and said "this is a creepy movie ... . I am leaving". She went home to her house with no electricity or heat. I was in free fall but thought she'll be back.

She did come back the next day ... . to move all her stuff out. I sat paralyzed with confusion, pain and fear. The next week she ran away, back to her husband (abusive and an active sex and substance addict).

Here is the question that is vexing me: Was this week all a set up? Was she building up my love and hope so that her abandonment and betrayal would inflict MAXIMUM hurt on me?  She really could not have done a better job at hurting me. Was she a sadist? This was just the final in a series of escalating infliction of pain. Did inflicting pain on me relieve her anger at the pain she felt from sexual abuse as a child?

(I saw her one more time after that but that's another story. I retaliated and inflicted a hard emotional blow to her. I almost hate to say ... . it felt really good.)

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

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waitaminute
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 10:12:45 AM »

I doubt if she planned it. In my case, also 8 months out, some clarity reminds me of a look in her eye when she is angry. I believe she could even have killed me cold blooded or leave me when I needed her the most. Once painted black, we would be the cause for a self-justified gleam in their destructive eye. But I think it's a feeling of the moment and not a sadistic plan.

My opinion
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nolisan
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 10:18:19 AM »

Yikes ... . I just had a disturbing thought. Am I a sadist? I did and still do take pleasure in my final retribution. And it was planned.

Or am I just "human", finally snapped and my shadow side came out?

I have always thought of myself as a "nice guy" but I wasn't that day.
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waitaminute
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 10:29:59 AM »

Yikes ... . I just had a disturbing thought. Am I a sadist? I did and still do take pleasure in my final retribution. And it was planned.

Or am I just "human", finally snapped and my shadow side came out?

I have always thought of myself as a "nice guy" but I wasn't that day.

After 3 years of almost never an angry word, I did unleash on her after she went in and on about my lies, mental illness, cheating, etc... . all of which was projection. I only did it for 2 days, but I met her on a battlefield of words and gave her an ass whoopin. Next day she said she liked it and wanted to make love with me when I was doing it. But I'm not interested.

I have occasionally thought of really mean things to do. But Irreally know that I just need to put her in my past. So I do.
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slimmiller
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 10:35:12 AM »

You mentioned getting old together, a glaring memory from my exBPD, was the day I was sick as a dog with the flu (I rarely get sick mind you) and I realized that she was completely unconcerned about how I feel and made absolutely no effert in nursing me back to health. I remember thinking if I was on my death bed she would probably go shopping... .  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)

Anyways, back to your question, I dont think they really are 'sadistic' even though from a logical perspective what else is it in all seriousness? Its just how the are 'wired'. Some folks are 'programmed' wrong (experiences made them) but others are just plain 'wired' wrong. I think BPDs fall in the latter category
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bpdspell
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 11:22:46 AM »

She's not a sadist. She's a mentally ill woman with a tortured soul who's disorder is triggered by intimacy and vulnerability.

BPD's do not plan HOW to hurt, and destroy. They don't rub their hands together scheming on how to get over on the next victim.  They are shame filled people who have a sordid, busted up history that happened way before we stepped into the picture. Their actions are the truth of who they are; not their words. Whenever their shame or demons are triggered all hell breaks loose. None of her behavior is about you but all of their behavior is about escape and survival. They are on a constant treadmill of trying to run away from their shame, emptiness, brokenness, misery, guilt but wherever they go BPD is.

It doesn't mean that their betrayal doesn't hurt or leave us scratching our heads but that's why it's called a mental illness. They're logic is pretzel. It will take time on your end to accept that they aren't fully cooked.

Was she intent on hurting you? From what you describe it seems doubtful. You trusted a woman who's untrustworthy because he disorder is boss. She violated your boundaries because her disorder dictates that her needs are all she can handle.
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schwing
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 01:00:33 PM »

Hi Nolisan,

Was she a sadist?  I don't know, probably not.  But the reason why she did what she did is because she suffers from borderline personality disorder (BPD).  I'll elaborate:

This is a snap shot of the week. All was well. She told me what a great man I was. We slept together but the sex had stopped. She was telling me what a wonderful lover I was and how patient and understanding I was with her sexual anorexia (she was a recovering sex and love addict now "acting in". She told me how she was feeling she was ready to reengage in love making again. We cuddled and I reassured her.

She talked about growing old together. Would I still love her when she had wrinkles?

My understanding of BPD is that people with BPD (pwBPD) are ruled by their fear of abandonment to the point where they will see it even if that abandonment is unlikely or impossible.  Moreover, as I see it, this disordered fear of abandonment they experience, seems to be particularly triggered by feelings of intimacy and familiarity.

The closer your BPD loved one felt towards you, the more she became overwhelmed by her (imagined and disordered) fear of abandonment.

She told me a story of her grandmother that really grabbed my heart and confirmed her commitment. Her GM had made a choice to marry one man instead of another. The man she truly loved had TB but told her to marry the other interested man who was healthy. She did and her choice turned out bad. He was a terrible man - an abusive gambler and drinker. The moral of the story was to "go with love" despite health concerns.

I have some serious chronic ailments. She said these were not important - she was going to stick with me despite my problems, She was going to follow her GM.s advice. I can not tell you how deeply this effected me: a woman over looking my problems in the name of love.

I can see why she told you this story because it suggested that she would choose to stay with the person she loves in spite of his ailments.  But to me, I can see why this story appeals to her because the moral of this story is to follow your heart or more specifically your feelings.  And what is hard for non-disorder people to accept is that for pwBPD, their feelings change mercurially.  To me, this story is her license to be an untethered kite in the thick of a windstorm.

While she was feeling her attachment towards you, while she was idealizing you, she wanted to be with you.  But even then she was dealing with her disordered fear of abandonment.  Why else would she insist on fortifying your attachment to her?  Insisting that you move in together, merge households, etc?  She was growing insecure and she thought these measures would mitigate her insecurity, her fear of abandonment.

Day 6 - she told me that she wanted to make love the next night. Wow I thought ... . I was melting and so full of gratitude and joy ... . my greatest dreams were coming true.

Day 7: We were watching a movie that I chose, an interesting happy movie about a man struggles and success. Half way through she stood up and said "this is a creepy movie ... . I am leaving". She went home to her house with no electricity or heat. I was in free fall but thought she'll be back.

But by moving in with you, she actually intensified her feelings of intimacy and familiarity towards you, which subsequently also intensified her disordered fear of abandonment.  And when you are afraid of being abandoned and you feel that abandonment imminently approaching, what do you do?  You leave first.  If you become the abandoner, you can avoid being the abandoned.

She did come back the next day ... . to move all her stuff out. I sat paralyzed with confusion, pain and fear. The next week she ran away, back to her husband (abusive and an active sex and substance addict).

So she followed her capricious heart, and she left you.

Here is the question that is vexing me: Was this week all a set up? Was she building up my love and hope so that her abandonment and betrayal would inflict MAXIMUM hurt on me?  She really could not have done a better job at hurting me. Was she a sadist? This was just the final in a series of escalating infliction of pain. Did inflicting pain on me relieve her anger at the pain she felt from sexual abuse as a child?

This was a set-up, only in the sense that this is the exact same pattern that all unrecovered pwBPD go through in their efforts to find an attachment partner.  They want to find a "family" for themselves, but the very way in which they experience "family" is poisoned by past traumas they choose to run away from.

They are afraid of abandonment because of an abandonment trauma they refuse to face, and subsequently inflict abandonment traumas upon those who deign to be their dance partners.

Her inflicting pain upon you might have relieved some of her anger.  But I think it is more accurate to say, she inflicted pain upon you because she was *reliving* her past trauma as a child with you only as the surrogate parent/authority figure.

Best wishes, Schwing
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schwing
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 01:05:55 PM »

Yikes ... . I just had a disturbing thought. Am I a sadist? I did and still do take pleasure in my final retribution. And it was planned.

Or am I just "human", finally snapped and my shadow side came out?

... . If you prick us, do we not bleed?

If you tickle us, do we not laugh?  If you poison

us, do we not die?  And if you wrong us, shall we not

revenge?


I think your inclination is a human characteristic.
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KellyO
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 03:55:33 PM »

Thank you schwing, again you made me see what happened to me too. I was in the similar situation, and it really broke me. After rocky times (are they always?), we decided to move together, and I found us an aparment both of us really wanted. Or so I thought. He started to be oddly resentful towards me, but he did not say he will not follow our plans. But behold when the day came that we got the keys, signed contract and we had only 2 days to paint the apartment before I had to move from my old apartment. He got nuts. He flipped totally. From scratch he decided (and I really say he decided) to make a Vietnam war, and I remember sitting in our future apartmen crying my heart out because he had decided to dump me from reasons a, b, c, and all the alphabets that follow. I felt like living in a nightmare and all I wanted is to wake up. But because he still couldn't get me to beg him to stay ( I never did, I'm an adult woman who does not beg), he threw some suicide-threats and whatnots in the fray. At that point I managed somehow to talk him to his senses, and it was followed by worst 2 months of my life, before he finally dumped me for good (and we recycled of course). He has never showed slightest remorse. I really thought he is sadistic person.

Now I can see he was re-living his abandoment. He was taken in state custody from alcoholistic parents at age 3. His mother was violent.

So @nolisan, I feel for you. Something like that you never forget. But it was never about us, it is them. We did not make them do it.
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nolisan
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 04:25:41 PM »

Thanks for the wisdom and compassion. I slipped briefly into "What the heck Land" but I'm back on the healing wagon. What took me in and kept me in the insanity.

I see it all in my codependent and adult child traits - I can work my stuff - that's where my solution is.
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waitaminute
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 04:57:58 PM »

Nolisan,

Yes, you can work in those things. Five plus months of therapy, talking about all kinds of things, we finally found a big factor that led me to be so in need of being the "white knight". Sure enough, my parents had problems and I somehow developed the need to be (but was unable to be) the one to comfort my mother. I lived unknowingly with that sense of inadequacy until I met the BPD. She allowed me to be the savior. Of course... . All the BPD bs followed too and I barely survived. Rebuilding now from ashes.
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