I'm struggling... Summer plan chaos

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So most of you know, my SO doesn't have a CO in place (his L is out on medical leave... . ugh). Visitation with his D8 has been at the whim of uBPDbm. At first it was none at all. Then it was EOW. Then she agreed to every weekend and that continued for six weekends in a row (plus some scattered in week nights whenever she was busy). Now everything has gone to heck and they're at a standstill. School lets out tomorrow and she originally agreed to 50/50 with alternating weeks for the summer, but is now backing out of it and has said she wants to go back to EOW. But she refuses to make an agreement or even discuss the summer unless he pays her money (she said this explicitly). And did I mention school lets out tomorrow?

This is maddening for me. I hate that she won't even consider what SO wants and come up with a compromise. I hate that SO gets used as an atm or free babysitter and not a father. I hate that the court process is so expensive and takes so long. I hate that the one who suffers is D8. I know it's part of the BPD, but it's frustrating. Rant over.

I'm a more agressive person, and SO is passive (BPD bait, I guess). So usually I encourage him to stand up for himself and exercise his parental rights instead of "letting" BM dictate the times and conditions of him seeing his daughter. Now, what I'm struggling with is how to walk the fine line between not playing the tug of war game and SO not being walked all over. I don't want him to go to court and them say "Well, it's been EOW and this seems to be working out so let's stick with that." He wants 50/50. But at the same time this standstill isn't getting anything accomplished.

Any suggestions I can pass along? Or is he stuck in this chaos until a court order is in place?

[Thunderstruck]

So most of you know, my SO doesn't have a CO in place (his L is out on medical leave... . ugh). Visitation with his D8 has been at the whim of uBPDbm. At first it was none at all. Then it was EOW. Then she agreed to every weekend and that continued for six weekends in a row (plus some scattered in week nights whenever she was busy). Now everything has gone to heck and they're at a standstill. School lets out tomorrow and she originally agreed to 50/50 with alternating weeks for the summer, but is now backing out of it and has said she wants to go back to EOW. But she refuses to make an agreement or even discuss the summer unless he pays her money (she said this explicitly). And did I mention school lets out tomorrow?

This is maddening for me. I hate that she won't even consider what SO wants and come up with a compromise. I hate that SO gets used as an atm or free babysitter and not a father. I hate that the court process is so expensive and takes so long. I hate that the one who suffers is D8. I know it's part of the BPD, but it's frustrating. Rant over.

I'm a more agressive person, and SO is passive (BPD bait, I guess). So usually I encourage him to stand up for himself and exercise his parental rights instead of "letting" BM dictate the times and conditions of him seeing his daughter. Now, what I'm struggling with is how to walk the fine line between not playing the tug of war game and SO not being walked all over. I don't want him to go to court and them say "Well, it's been EOW and this seems to be working out so let's stick with that." He wants 50/50. But at the same time this standstill isn't getting anything accomplished.

Any suggestions I can pass along? Or is he stuck in this chaos until a court order is in place?

[mamachelle]

Hey Thunderstruck,

I'm sorry to hear about this. Even with a Custody Order in place you are still going to be dealing with this type of back and forth. I think trying to get her communicate through email so her demands for money and also the informal visitation agreements EOW or whatever (as changeable as they are) are written down-- is best for future court action. It will show a pattern.

I would talk to your local American Bar Association about this L. He should transfer the case to another attorney in his absence. This is an emergency I think.

mamachelle

[marbleloser]

With no custody order in place,he should get D8 and keep her.Do NOT let her have her back until she agrees to at least a 50/50 parenting plan,in writing.By being passive,he's not only allowing it to happen,she's establishing status quo.

Time for him to establish a little status quo of his own.

[Thunderstruck]

Marbleloser, you think the same way I do. Keep her and never give her back! But there are logistical problems with that (where would she go when Thunderstruck and SO have to work? BM would just grab her from school/daycare/etc. And SO thinks she'd call the cops and claim kidnapping). Plus she already agreed to 50/50, in writing. She just changed her mind on a whim, it doesn't mean squat to her.

We got D8 last night, and we can tell for the past few weeks BM has been hard at work with the PA. She isn't the same loving kid we dropped off two weeks ago, she seems more like the one in the beginning of the year who was thinking daddy abandoned her and Thunderstruck was evil incarnate and the cause of all the problems. Le sigh.

[marbleloser]

" BM would just grab her from school/daycare/etc. "

She could do that.I'd motion for the signed 50/50 parenting plan to be put into action by the judge.Until then,it's who gets her first and keeps her.

"And SO thinks she'd call the cops and claim kidnapping)."

So what? A parent can't kidnap their own child.The police can do NOTHING without a court order stating that mom has primary custody.They can ask him to hand her over to mom,to keep the peace(or some other bs like that),but all he has to say is,"No." He won't be breaking any law,so they can't arrest him.He can show them that D8 is fine and healthy and let that be the end of it.

PA is a sad part of this process.I see it as well.Two weeks is WAY too long between seeing her.That's why he needs to take action.If nothing else,when she's at school/daycare/etc.,, he needs to take the time to go by and see her.Go have lunch with her.Kids love when a parent comes for "lunchtime" and he'll show her that he's not abandoning her,but spending every moment he can with her.

[Matt]

I think fighting fire with fire could lead to a bad place.  Some courts aren't fair to dads;  if a mom engages in alienation, and blocks the dad's access, she may get away with it, but if the dad does the same thing he may be hurting himself longer-term.

I agree with Mamachelle about getting an attorney involved.  If your current attorney is available by phone or e-mail, maybe ask her to get another attorney involved for right now.  Or just find someone and fire the current attorney.  It's not professional for him to leave you high and dry when he's on medical leave - he should have figured out a way to make sure you are taken care of.

[ForeverDad]

It's late so I can't post much right now, but I can tell you my experience when my then-spouse and I were separated.  After a few months with temporary protection orders from the other and a temp parenting schedule as well, they were dismissed and we had no orders at all.  (The family court magistrate said he hoped we could work out the parenting but not to come back except for more permanent solutions, better than TPOs.  I took that to mean divorce.)

Well, my then-spouse started blocking all father-child access.  Police were no help, they said both parents had equal but unspecified rights to have the child.  The police refused to go with me to even see my preschooler but did confirm they'd respond immediately if I went to her door and she called the police.  So I knew I couldn't risk false allegations or even arrest.  So I started getting papers ready for divorce and changing to a divorce lawyer.  That took a month to file for divorce and custody.  Ex of course counterfiled for custody and protection claiming harassment.  (I was calling son almost daily - to her phone that I was paying the bills for - but she wouldn't answer and so that was part of her claim that I was 'harassing' her.)

Here's what I want to say about the thought of "don't give the child back until you have an agreement".  I admit it worked for my ex, she was able to block all contact for 3 months - she didn't offer any options whatsoever for getting contact restored - and when we finally had that initial divorce hearing to set orders (before the same magistrate too!) the magistrate verified I had been blocked but then just reinstated the the prior temp schedule where I had alternate weekends.  No consequences!  The magistrate didn't show any disapproval to ex for her blanket unconditional blocking.  Would it have been different if I the father had been the one blocking access, would I the father have been criticized for blocking?  Possibly, maybe even probably, but I just don't know.

Here's why she was able to do it and I didn't even try to do it to her.  I worked a regular schedule.  She, as she claimed in court, "worked from home" even though she no longer lived in our home.  So she was able to stay with our preschooler 100% of the time.  If I had gotten him, I would have had to use a sitter or daycare when I was working and since we had no orders specifying a schedule she could have come in and had the right to take him back.  Knowing that I would lose if I tried to play Musical Chairs with our child, I realized my best option was to get a court hearing ASAP to get a parenting time schedule again.

[DreamGirl]

Yeah, don't withhold the kiddo.

This interim part where you're waiting to get a court order in place really, really sucks - because you sorta do depend on the whim of an emotionally unstable person.

My husband is pretty decent at communicating with his ex-wife and even though she doesn't, he always "fights fair".  One of the boundaries that he enforces is when it comes to intertwining money and parenting time. He'll actually say "I don't want to discuss the money part right now, let's figure out this other stuff and then come back to it when we've both calmed down. I'm open to what you're proposing but let's talk about it later" - no matter how ridonkerous the proposal is (like when she owes him money and decides that she wants to change the child tax credit).  

BPD is all about roller coasters, it's our choice to board it or not. Of course she's changing her mind because that's what a person who has trouble regulating emotions kinda does. It took two years for my hubs to get his Final Orders in place and that was from 98% effort on his part and 2% on hers. It's not always fair. It's reality though. She also filed to change it two years later. There is actually some normalcy to agreeing and then rescinding later... . you don't know the outcome and if it will "work out".

You have a signed agreement. That's a good thing to have - at some point, at some time, she agreed to a 50/50 schedule in the summer. So at some point, at some time she wanted 50/50 in the summer. Sounds like money got intermingled in that at some point, at some time? What happened?

Why is she wanting the EOWE reinstated?

[ForeverDad]

Just a follow-up to my post above.  I knew that if I did manage to retrieve my child somehow, all she had to do was wait until I went to work and then search out son and get him.  And then when I got off work I couldn't cause his return.  As parent, her parental rights would trump anywhere else I would place him while I was working and then I'd be right back where I was before.

A court ordered parenting time (visitation) schedule, however poor it might be, was my only hope to limit the conflict.

I did have documentation that my ex was blocking my parental contact but the court didn't see 3 months of blocking as actionable, not even enough to give me make-up time or give me a better schedule to be more involved for my parenting time.

[Matt]

If there is an agreement in place, but it's not specific enough, there is an approach that has worked for me... .

Write an e-mail proposing the specifics, and cc: your lawyer.  Consult with your lawyer about it before sending it, and make sure he forwards it to the other lawyer.  The other lawyer should then advise his client (stbX) to respond in a sensible way.

From:  Thunderstruck

To:  stbX

cc:  Your lawyer

Re:  Schedule.

Our agreement says we should have 50/50 time with the kids this summer, but it doesn't give the specifics.  The purpose of this note is to propose how we can do that.

The kids are with me now.  I will keep them through noon Saturday June 8 and drop them off at your place then.

I'll pick them up at noon Saturday June 15, and return them to your place at noon Saturday June 22.  We can continue that pattern through August 31.

Keep it as simple as possible, and don't ask for her approval or a counter-proposal, but keep the tone open so you aren't saying "My way or the highway".  Say what you will do - pick the kids up and drop them off - don't tell her what she should do.

Then wait for her response, and take it from there.  Her lawyer should advise her to say "OK", or propose another schedule that is consistent with the agreement in place.

If she doesn't respond at all, you could re-send it in 24 hours, and then ask your lawyer to take it from there.  No threats to keep the kids, but also no commitments when you will return them if she doesn't agree to this plan or make a sensible counter-proposal.

E-mail only so there is a record.

[DreamGirl]

My husband's ex really struggled that first summer for 50/50 (week on-week off). She tried to change it, manipulating the wording in the order and saying it wasn't in the best interest of the girls... . and they just couldn't be away from her for that long.

The hubs simply offered a "dinner" on Wednesday night to break up the week for them/her. She agreed.

Then very seldom took the Wednesday night - because everyone really was OK.  

If we have just a tiny bit of compassion for the Mama in this situation - maybe she's just nervous about the long break and something simple will alleviate that for her.

I think that's why I wonder what is bringing this sudden change of mind on? Money? Fear?

[Thunderstruck]

She agreed in an e-mail to the 50/50 if SO paid for the registration fees and first week of summer camp, which he did.

SO followed up and wrote a very similar email to what you recommended, Matt, only he didn't copy the L. The response was "We can talk summer when you give me money".

Last day of school was Friday (I think I mentioned that before  ) and D8 got her grades. SO asked BM what they were and she said "We can talk grades when you give me money".

SO would be willing to work with her, but... . She's refusing to even discuss. 

Neither SO nor I want to withhold D8 for her mom (we were on the receiving end of the withholding for 3 months, it SUCKS), we just want that darn 50/50 schedule that she agreed to. Something regular would be nice, so we can plan vacations or social events or just a schedule that SO can take to work so he knows when he has to leave early to get D8. He can't just kick off early whenever BM wishes, his work is inflexible.

DreamGirl, I'd say it's somewhat money as a trigger. I think she wants the EOWE because she would get more support when they go to court. However, it seems that when she has something happening in her personal life (like dates) then she is ok to drop D8 off even if she doesn't get whatever arbitrary amount she requested (that was the case this weekend).

[Matt]

So I see a couple of keys that might help.

One is making sure the attorney is copied, and is copying her attorney.  If she doesn't have an attorney, maybe your attorney could follow up to the e-mail with a phone call or letter to her - "Ms. Struck, I saw the e-mail exchange between you and my client.  I must ask you to cooperate and work out a 50/50 schedule as you agreed to do, or I will have no choice but to advise my client to take stronger legal action, which might not be in your interest... . ".  Basically let her know that he means business.

The other thing that might help is to very carefully phrase it in terms of what you (or SO) will do.  So you're not asking her to "talk about summer", you're telling her, "This is the schedule.  If you want a different schedule, that is consistent with 50/50, you can propose it."

One more option might be to file a motion for the court to hear this issue immediately - I don't think the legal term is "emergency" but there is a procedure to ask the court to either issue an immediate ruling, based on evidence you provide (the e-mails), or have a very brief immediate hearing.  Your lawyer should know how it can be done, to get a court order in place right away.

[DreamGirl]

DreamGirl, I'd say it's somewhat money as a trigger. I think she wants the EOWE because she would get more support when they go to court. However, it seems that when she has something happening in her personal life (like dates) then she is ok to drop D8 off even if she doesn't get whatever arbitrary amount she requested (that was the case this weekend).

It's really tough - and she may just not understand yet - but money and visitation are two separate issues EVEN when she is trying to intertwine them.  

Is there a child support order in place? Does he pay it? The money she is currently asking about is for... . what?

For me (and the hubs) I try not to moralize her tactics because it robs me of the rationale that is so desperately needed in these situations. The fact is that she wants money and she's using the kid to get the money. It's a skill in getting what she wants and your SO has probably conceded in the past, which makes him just as much an important part of the dynamic. My stepkids' Mama isn't very good at money management and will send my SD's over to our house with permission slips and lost teeth in a bag.  She's trying to get Dad to pay for the necessary stuff. Most of the time he does... . so when he doesn't, she gets mad.

The issue that so often arises in regards to the touchy subject of money is that my husband is inconsistent and it creates confusion. So when he DOES say "no" to a reimbursement (like half of an over-priced dress or to a medical reimbursement when she owes him money), he knows there will be pushback in her typical over-reacting way.

I think it's a very important boundary to set early on that money be a separate issue. Almost every single divorced parent argues over money - so it's inevitable that the discussions are going to get heated. My husband still, 9 years later, will say "I'm not going to argue about money right now, lets figure out how we're going to get SD to her practice tomorrow".

The bottom line is that you need a court order and this is going to be a difficult time while you are in limbo. It sucks. It really does. I remember those days well.

I like Matt's idea of going back to the agreement and laying it out for her gently but firmly - and the added bonus of your SO doing all the transportation. Because then there is no depending on her.

~DG  

[ForeverDad]

Last day of school was Friday (I think I mentioned that before  ) and D8 got her grades. SO asked BM what they were and she said "We can talk grades when you give me money".

SO would be willing to work with her, but... . She's refusing to even discuss.

Since you can't get her to respond, respond well or respond consistently, just go to the school to get school information.  He may need to show his court order, skimpy as it is, and ask them to copy him on ALL communications such as grades, discipline, missed homework, parent-teacher conferences, concerns, etc.  The school needs to know this is one of those situations where they need to provide two copies of everything - and that any papers or duplicate copies sent home with child to mothers home will never reach you.  And you'll have to train or educate a new teacher each school year.

Same goes for the pediatrician, dentist, daycare, summer camp, counselor or therapist, etc.  Just accept that Dad will have to take the initiative and make the extra effort to get the records, forms and other information from the source and not depend on ex to share consistently.  Too many strings attached to ex's conditional sharing, too many moods, feelings and emotional baggage that get in the way.  And it gives too much power or leverage to the disordered parent.  By going to the information sources, it removes some of the ex's leverage even if the ex is still just as entitled and unreasonable.

[Matt]

I like Matt's idea of going back to the agreement and laying it out for her gently but firmly - and the added bonus of your SO doing all the transportation. Because then there is no depending on her.

Yeah, there are two big reasons I proposed this in our settlement, and I'm really glad I did.

One is exactly as DG says - it puts more control in your (or SO's) hands - SO can say, "I will pick up the kids at such-and-such a time" and "I will drop them off at such-and-such a time" - not "Please bring them at noon" - less dependent on somebody who is, I presume, not too dependable right now.

Also, it keeps the disordered party away from your home.  In my case, there had been false accusations of violence, so I didn't want her in or at my home.  By doing all the driving, I gave her no reason to even be in my neighborhood.  If I go to her home, and there is any hint that she might be losing her cool, I can make sure I'm outside her home, or even just get in the car and go - no need to try to calm her down and get her out of my house.

I take it you haven't had this issue, but many here have - the other party gets upset over something and starts making false accusations, and in some states, a man accused of DV by a woman is pretty much considered guilty til proven innocent.  A very good thing to avoid if possible, and doing all the driving helps with that.

[Thunderstruck]

I take it you haven't had this issue, but many here have - the other party gets upset over something and starts making false accusations, and in some states, a man accused of DV by a woman is pretty much considered guilty til proven innocent.  A very good thing to avoid if possible, and doing all the driving helps with that.

She cried DV last year on my birthday. Had it dismissed a few days later and SO didn't find out about it for two months (they never even contacted him). More often she made false claims of him sleeping with her while him and I were together. So he records every exchange in a public location so there will be none of this nonsense. If at all possible he tries to have pickups/dropoffs happen at school so their paths don't cross.

SO works later than BM, so she can go pick up D8 from daycare and interfere at will. She has done this several times in the past. With an order in place, I could in theory go pick up D8 on his time and everything would be peachy. However, without one I'm sure she would raise a fuss and call the police if I was alone (even for an hour) with D8. This is SO's main hesitance about doing anything this week. I feel like if he doesn't enforce the 50/50 agreement this week then it's gone for the whole summer.

Dreamgirl, no custody support order is in place. SO has been, however, consistently paying her every month and pays for most dr bills (and health insurance). She says the money is to fix something on her car (she just spent a large chunk of money last weekend on jewelry, sigh... . ). SO can't give it to her now, and he's not exactly motivated to with the way she's been trying to block him from parenting.

[Thunderstruck]

This is a fun little twist. BM asked SO to watch D8 last night. When I picked D8 up from daycare they told me BM hadn't paid for next week's and the money was due. How convenient. 

SO decided not to pay. This kind of forces BM's hand. She can switch to 50/50 with each side taking care of expenses for their week (like SO originally proposed and like he wants) or she has to figure out someone to watch D8 for all next week.

P.S. The daycare is a half hour away so SO had picked places closer to where we live for D8 to attend this summer in "his" weeks. In case this 50/50 thing happens.