A big decision

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have a pretty big decision to make. And I would love some feedback from fellow members.

This upcoming Thursday I have to go to court against my wife. Several weeks ago, I was able to file for divorce, which I have done and my wife has been served already.

Prior to filing, I contacted her and tried in vain to communicate with her. She would not communicate at all. She threatened to file paperwork with the courts if I continued to contact her. And, she was adamant that she would fight me vigorously in the courts if I filed for divorce. She feels our actual separation date was in November. In short, we have been separated for 1 year and 1 month, but she feels that we stopped working on our relationship 7 months ago. The law states, 1 year living in separate residences, and we have. So, that was why I filed.  We have an agreement, I pay certain bills for her instead of going to court and her filing spousal support. So, I agreed to that. But enough is enough. We can divorce and I want my life back and I want to stop paying her way.

But she did not want to hear from me and she filed a restraining order. I should have stopped contacting her, but I didn't and now I must choose to face the judge with her, or not go and a mandatory 1 year restraining order will be put into affect.

I have all sorts of anxiety about going to this hearing. Two main issues I have are, 1. seeing her. I don't want to see her at all. I have so much fear that this will trigger all sorts of emotions I am trying to work on. 2. what if she is with another guy? That will kill me if she shows up in court with someone else.

I don't care so much about the year restraining order, on face value, it's not as if I will contact her. BUT, what if she contacts me at some point and I respond? Or even worse, decides to just go off the rails and mess with me and call the police and I didn't even contact her, then I have to go to jail and then sort it out afterwards all on a baseless accusation.

So, my thought is to go to court and deal with my emotions as best as I can and just muddle through the ordeal as best as I can.

What would you suggest? Thanks for reading and giving feedback... . I appreciate it.

 

[spaceace]

I have a pretty big decision to make. And I would love some feedback from fellow members.

This upcoming Thursday I have to go to court against my wife. Several weeks ago, I was able to file for divorce, which I have done and my wife has been served already.

Prior to filing, I contacted her and tried in vain to communicate with her. She would not communicate at all. She threatened to file paperwork with the courts if I continued to contact her. And, she was adamant that she would fight me vigorously in the courts if I filed for divorce. She feels our actual separation date was in November. In short, we have been separated for 1 year and 1 month, but she feels that we stopped working on our relationship 7 months ago. The law states, 1 year living in separate residences, and we have. So, that was why I filed.  We have an agreement, I pay certain bills for her instead of going to court and her filing spousal support. So, I agreed to that. But enough is enough. We can divorce and I want my life back and I want to stop paying her way.

But she did not want to hear from me and she filed a restraining order. I should have stopped contacting her, but I didn't and now I must choose to face the judge with her, or not go and a mandatory 1 year restraining order will be put into affect.

I have all sorts of anxiety about going to this hearing. Two main issues I have are, 1. seeing her. I don't want to see her at all. I have so much fear that this will trigger all sorts of emotions I am trying to work on. 2. what if she is with another guy? That will kill me if she shows up in court with someone else.

I don't care so much about the year restraining order, on face value, it's not as if I will contact her. BUT, what if she contacts me at some point and I respond? Or even worse, decides to just go off the rails and mess with me and call the police and I didn't even contact her, then I have to go to jail and then sort it out afterwards all on a baseless accusation.

So, my thought is to go to court and deal with my emotions as best as I can and just muddle through the ordeal as best as I can.

What would you suggest? Thanks for reading and giving feedback... . I appreciate it.

 

[Waddams]

Go to court and fight the restraining order.  If she gets it entered, then she'll also have a big advantage in the divorce. 

[spaceace]

Why do you state that?

This is both of our second marriages.

This is also a no fault divorce state we are in. There aren't children involved and no real estate.

The are no finances to split either.

I am not sure what the advantage will be. Perhaps I should have mentioned that all at first.

[hell0kitty]

We had a false restraining order filed by BPDex almost 3 years ago now.  It was thrown out of court, but I have to tell you, just the implication of a "History of DV" has been one of the biggest pains in the booty we have had to deal with in court this whole time.  Even though NOTHING happened, no order happened, it has given her the upper hand in all court proceedings. She has been able to use her false accusation to wiggle out of mediation, dispute resolution and anything else that could be more cost effective than doing everything in front of a judge.  

If I were you I would do everything possible to make sure no order happens.  If she gets a no contact order, she gets all of the power. (in my own experience)

[hell0kitty]

She could use it to get you arrested at will.  She could bait you to speak to her, you might be tempted to respond, you slip and suddenly you are in jail.  Even if it is an "easy divorce" she can cost you more than money.  She could cost you your reputation, your job, you could suddenly become an abuser in the eyes of law even if you have never done anything.  It is basically a scarlet letter that BPDs use for power.

[spaceace]

I understand the responses, but I fail to see what power she will have? There are no children, custody or visitation issues. No money issues to split. Since this is a no fault divorce state, the next step is basically we divorce and we are going our separate ways. We have been married 4 years but have only lived together a total of 29 months. She won't get spousal support. She won't get alimony. She won't get child support since we don't have kids together.

I am trying to understand what possible issues I could face in the future. When we go to court to divorce, there is not much that will happen. If she contests it, it will only mean we have to wait a longer period of time to divorce. But what can she go after me for? There isn't anything binding us? As far as I can see... .

[spaceace]

hello kitty,

Ok, that I understand and that has been my fear. So, I am leaning towards going and dealing with whatever emotional fallout I experience... . I am a big boy and will deal with it... .

Thanks... .

[hell0kitty]

A good example of this.  I have an old friend who got into a very public shouting match with his ex wife. Someone called the cops, and he was carted off to jail.  (That is what they do here) She was mad at first and wanted to say he threatened her even though he didn't.  She later decided to tell the truth and admit they were both arguing and it was fine.  Our state did not allow her to drop charges.  He had an attorney tell him to just take a plea deal so it would be time served, and no big deal.  The cheapest fastest way to get out of it. 

WELLL

This was the worst idea ever.  He nearly got fired from his job due to his "record" and he could no longer get a gun license, which was important for the type of work he does.  It also messed with a few other things with his trying to purchase a home or something, can't totally remember.

Anyhow, he ended up spending nearly $10k in courts getting it expunged from his record just so his life could go back to normal.

[Waddams]

The order will go on your record.  Whenever someone runs a background check, say for a new job, it will come up.  It will dog you for a long time if you let it happen.  There are ramifications to your life that go way beyond the impacts to your divorce case, and they can be life long.

I have all sorts of anxiety about going to this hearing. Two main issues I have are, 1. seeing her. I don't want to see her at all. I have so much fear that this will trigger all sorts of emotions I am trying to work on. 2. what if she is with another guy? That will kill me if she shows up in court with someone else.

Question about this statement in your OP - Do think you might be suffering from a bit of FOG in relation to the quoted statement?  Are you letting your fear of her prevent you from otherwise acting in your own rational self interest?  One of the things we all need to learn coming out of relationships with disordered people is how to become in control of ourselves, take control of our emotions, and not let our emotions control us.  We all ended up with disordered people because one way or another, we let our emotions override our better, logical judgement.  I know that was true in my case, anyway.  Ultimately, for me, the only way out was a kind of "rip the bandaid off" approach and making myself do things that I was afraid of, get through it okay, and realize afterwards that "Hey... . that wasn't so bad.  I'm stronger than I gave myself credit for". 

[marbleloser]

Agree with Waddams.Once you face it head on,you'll be suprised at how well you'll handle anxiety and tense situations from there on out.

[spaceace]

Yes, there is a HUGE FOG still smothering me. And there shouldn't be. This woman who may be my wife according to a piece of paper, is not safe for me to communicate with and certainly not my friend or is looking out for my best interest and I need to accept that. She totally has the upper hand, and if that's not enough to get me head out of my you know what, then just looking at how this all played out, should be enough. She did not want me to file for divorce. She wants to suck me dry paying her bills as long as she can string me along. I get that... . and I overlooked that hoping that she would see the light and take me back. She's not taking me back... . More importantly, I know, I cannot go back. Nothing will change between us. She has left me 3 times. She will do it again. I have custody of my  daughter to think about. And I cannot keep putting my kids in this situation. There is nothing rational about what drives my wife. It is only a detriment to my mental well being dealing with her... . and I NEED to get that straight and let this marriage end and get away from her as safely as possible and just put it all behind me. Thanks for the words... . It's appreciated!

[spaceace]

You all gave me reason enough to commit to going to the hearing. I don't need anything following me around like this. I have worked for the public sector for years and still do, and I do NOT want to lose the safety and security of my employment. That in itself is enough to make sure I show up and handle this reasonably well. I have actually written a response that I will read verbatim to the court. And I am asking the court to dismiss the action and assuring the court that I will communicate ONLY through my attorney from this point forward. I hope that will help me get this dismissed. I will see... .

[hell0kitty]

I didn't realize you had children.  Even if they are not with her, with a DV conviction on your record, it could mess with your custody if you are branded an abuser.

[spaceace]

I am not worried about that very much. Although I do have custody of my 15 year old daughter, and have had custody for 8 years, my ex wife is aware and on board with what has been happening. And most importantly, my daughter has made it clearly known, she will not move in with her mother. I don't have to worry about that very much. At least I hope I don't!

[Waddams]

If you can afford it, consider hiring an experienced lawyer to defend you against the stalking order.  It will be money well spent at this point.

[ForeverDad]

There are TWO issues here.  Probably best to separate them.

First is that you would be stressed by seeing her and even more stressed if she comes with a BF in tow.  Frankly, you have to get past this.  Can you get some counseling before that appearance?  If you don't have a counselor or therapist already?  (Of course, oftentimes the peer support here is just as valuable or more so than therapy.  That's because we've walked in your shoes, we've been there and done that, we can emphasize what generally works by telling our own experiences.)

Second is the legal issue of her petition for a restraining order.  There are ramifications if you default.  If you don't even appear then the court will have no choice but to proceed with the information at hand and make a finding that her, um, story is accurate and truthful.  So you really do need to go there to defend your good name.  As already mentioned, having a restraining or protection order listed against you could hurt your current or future job prospects.  These days most employers run a background check when hiring.  If that appears, employer could likely decide to hire someone else.

Literally EVERYONE here is telling you to go to court and defend yourself.  (Just defend yourself and deny her claims, try to avoid contact with her as much as possible and of course show no aggression toward her at all while there).  Avoiding an encounter and possible confrontation by not appearing is, in effect, self-sabotage and invites a ruling in her favor automatically.  Yes, inaction is not a good choice.  It lets her be in control and you as the Whipping Boy.  This is one of the few times you don't avoid being in the same room with her - just don't engage her, you already know you can't reason with her or convince her to be reasonable, direct your comments always to the judge.

If she claims, he's harassing me, he's trying to control me, etc, then your statement to the judge can be, "I want no contact with her, that's why I have filed for divorce, here are the copies of my divorce case.  I have done nothing wrong.  I am trying to extricate myself from dealing with her."  You might even want to add, if appropriate, "Your honor, I don't deserve to be here facing her unfounded or exaggerated claims but if she is to get an order against me, then I will file for protection from her.  If there is to be protection or restraint, then it needs to be mutual and applied to both of us."

[spaceace]

I spent the weekend working on a response. I am going. I actually drove to the courthouse yesterday to find where it is located. It's in another county, I wasn't sure where it was located at.

I am not sure how this will play out. There really  is nothing threatening or abusive about a single item in the complaint. I am hopeful the judge sees that. I am also hopeful that I can read my notes and stay on task to get out what I have to say.

It is one more day in my life and I will get through it. And I will have my dignity in tact and it will be the next step in healing. I have to look at it that way... . even if I am struggling mightily right now with the fear and anxiety of seeing my wife not only in this setting and this way, but also, seeing her for the first time since she kicked me and my kids out of our home 7 months ago... . Just writing that makes my head spin!

[livednlearned]

If she claims, he's harassing me, he's trying to control me, etc, then your statement to the judge can be, "I want no contact with her, that's why I have filed for divorce, here are the copies of my divorce case.  I have done nothing wrong.  I am trying to extricate myself from dealing with her."  You might even want to add, if appropriate, "Your honor, I don't deserve to be here facing her unfounded or exaggerated claims but if she is to get an order against me, then I will file for protection from her.  If there is to be protection or restraint, then it needs to be mutual and applied to both of us."

It's always good to begin your response with, "Those allegations are false. There is no evidence that I am harassing her or controlling her. Etc."

Lots of good advice here -- definitely defend yourself. I think getting an L is an excellent idea, money well spent.

It is difficult going to court against BPD stbx spouses. No question. Is there someone you trust who can go with you? It is helpful to have some support so you can debrief after your hearing. It will seem to take forever to go before the judge, and then everything happens very quickly. Take notes if you can. Be respectful to the judge (I know you will  ), and if you don't understand something or need it repeated, say so. If you feel nervous, it's ok to say that.

Sorry you're going through this. 

[ForeverDad]

Beware of seemingly innocent responses to accusations such as "Yes but... . "  No one will listen to your explanations, all they'll hear is the "Yes".  What this means is you have to beware of being too honest and forthright.  Speak as little as possible and don't admit to anything which could be construed as an "admission" of guilt.

For example, you can say something like, "I did not say/do that.  My words/actions have been twisted in the way she/he has described them."

Hopefully it will get dismissed at the first appearance, but be prepared for the judge to let the case be continued to a later date, in hopes you will give in or she will drop it.

Do you have Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder? It's available in an electronic format too if you can't wait for physical delivery.  It's our legal/court handbook around here.  It warns us about talking too much, accepting plea deals (where some level of guilt is admitted) and other common traps and pitfalls for the inexperienced in the courtroom scenarios.

I recall when my ex responded to my divorce filing by claiming harassment (I was trying to contact my son so my unanswered telephone calls seeking to reach him were claimed to be harassing her  ).  My lawyer said she didn't have to prove her case, since just claiming to be 'fearful" might be enough.  So we did settle for a short order that admitted no guilt, made no findings and left it to family court to decide a parenting time schedule.  A concept I pushed:  It wasn't to protect her, rather, it kept her away from me as much as it kept me away from her.

[broken3]

Space,

In my state. The person who is at fault for the dissolution of the marriage is required to pay alimony and spousal support if requested.

If you do not fight this. You could be percieved as the one responsible.

Custody does not matter *(i have custody of the 3 kids) not my BPDexw.

I have a high school education and she has a BS degree.

I recieve no child support. But I do have to pay her Alimony for now.

I used to be petrified about going to court. But like anything else. The fear has passed now that I hve gone umpteen times.

[momtara]

The orders go on your permanent record (employers know about them, I believe).  I'd talk to a lawyer and go to court. 

[egribkb]

Do you have a lawyer? Is he/she familiar with high conflict divorce? Do you have a therapist? I consider both of them essential to completing a divorce with a pwBPD and staying sane.

Filing for divorce is another excuse for pwBPD to feel abandoned and they will often act out. Go get and read this book:

www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

I got it based on recommendations on this board and read it. At first I thought no way will my stbx do all this stuff, I mean she's crazy but not THAT crazy right? Fast forward almost a year later and the book could be used as a textbook point by point record of what she has done. From extreme gaslighting, to outright lies and more than one false charge with the police, it's all there. We have a mediation hearing this week at which I expect she'll walk out on and then next stop is a jury trial. Most divorces don't go to the circus of a jury trial, the ones that do are often BPD.

I repeat: get a lawyer, get a therapist.

[livednlearned]

Space,

In my state. The person who is at fault for the dissolution of the marriage is required to pay alimony and spousal support if requested.

If you do not fight this. You could be percieved as the one responsible.

Custody does not matter *(i have custody of the 3 kids) not my BPDexw.

I have a high school education and she has a BS degree.

I recieve no child support. But I do have to pay her Alimony for now.

I used to be petrified about going to court. But like anything else. The fear has passed now that I hve gone umpteen times.

I think spaceace is in a no-fault divorce state:

There are no children, custody or visitation issues. No money issues to split. Since this is a no fault divorce state, the next step is basically we divorce and we are going our separate ways.

[spaceace]

I went to court yesterday. It was not as bad as I thought it would be. I mean my level of anxiety. I thought it would be off the charts. I have not seen or spoken to my wife in 7 months. I made more up in my head about this than it was worthy to be.

I had zero emotion when I saw her. It was as if I didn't even know this person at all. Kind of strange. In a way, I don't think I did ever know her.

I spoke with her legal representation about dropping the charges. I pointed out that I know, nothing in her complaint rises to the statute to constitute threats or violence. The biggest worry for me was all the emails and texts I sent to her which she listed, that I sent during several weeks right after we separated. I was worried she would get the restraining order for harassment. Never mind the fact we sent texts back and forth. It does look excessive.

Her attorney stated she would drop the charges if we both entered into a voluntary agreement of non communication. I told her I was concerned with signing any paperwork until I discussed it with my attorney.

So, it was continued till July 18 and I am waiting on a call from my attorney to discuss the issue.

After all the kind words and thoughts, I wanted to give an update.

[marbleloser]

spaceace,I'm a bit confused.Was your atty present for this?

The reason I ask is,your atty should have been able to talk to you about this at that moment to get resolved then and there.

[ForeverDad]

As I recall you each have children, but no children together, right?

If you do a no-contact order as her lawyer wanted, how would that affect the divorce case?  Is it reasonable to expect everything to be done between attorneys (and consequent costs)?  How much in marital assets or debts is there that you two have to split?  Anything co-owned?  Any joint accounts?  Any joint debts?  Is either of you asking for financial support from the other (unlikely since it is a relatively short marriage)?

I recall when my ex responded to my divorce filing by claiming harassment (I was trying to contact my son so my unanswered telephone calls seeking to reach him were claimed to be harassing her  ).  My lawyer said she didn't have to prove her case, since just claiming to be 'fearful" might be enough.  So we did settle for a short order that admitted no guilt, made no findings and left it to family court to decide a parenting time schedule.  A concept I pushed:  It wasn't to protect her, rather, it kept her away from me as much as it kept me away from her.

As you can see, I did what my ex's lawyer requested, but I did it because I had custody issues as a complicating factor.  Also, my lawyer made sure, besides the conditions I mentioned already that no guilt was determined, that the settlement was titled as a type that could not be extended.  Once it reached the end date, it was over and that was the end of that.

One concern I have is that if either of you violated the order, the judge could treat you two differently.  What I mean is that if you violated the order, then you could be hammered.  But if she violated the order of no contact (a real possibility) then she, both as a person of the female gender  and as the one who originally filed for it, could be treated lightly.  That's why I think that if you do walk that make then make sure

You still need to get your own legal advice.  I recall how my lawyer grinned at me and told me that if my ex's lawyer was any good he would have refused to let the agreement be categorized the way my lawyer wrote it since it was a type that could never be extended.  So even if you think you got a fair deal, her lawyer could sneak in something that would give his client a subtle or not-so-subtle edge.