Emergency advice guys - He is texting me now (after 9 days)

[connect]

I was brave enough to read the text. So after all that wishing for him to contact me when he does the following happens to me: I read the first line of the text only and shut the phone and throw it down. Hands start sweating and shaking. Body starts shaking. Feel instantly freezing cold. Bearing in mind THIS reaction is after talking half a valium! Took me 15 mins to pluck up the courage to read the rest of it.

He said he would let me know he has got my clothes and things at his house. He asked me if I'd been to any gigs last week. (no not really too busy crying and popping pills)

I said he was too big to wear my dresses. Asked him a question back about the cinema.

He said he watched a film last night

So looks like we are talking again. In what capacity I don't know. Will see what happens. Any advice on how to handle this? Don't know how to do this initial contact.

Let me know as am freaking out  xx

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[benny2]

Well in my past experience, it could be the beginning of a recycle. Casual conversation at first, then leading to a more personal level and before you know it, your back in the game. Its all up to you. I for one am still playing the game, hoping for change, but deep down I know we will be right back in the bull pit. Guess I'm just enjoying the attention right now, for what ever reason may be behind it, but having no great expectations.

[123Phoebe]

You have a lot of control over the 'capacity' that you want to be involved with him.   

((deep breaths))

[connect]

Thanks guys. Have been looking at your posts benny2 so know your circumstances too – yeah expectations are out the window here too. Phoebe – yep… breathe….

I feel a bit weird. We went back and forth with him asking questions – all light hearted. The last text was sent by me and included a question and was not answered. As usual I am over analysing and am going to write my thoughts. They may be useful for someone else on the board someday as well as for me to write them down. Random thoughts are;

* The huge reaction I had from getting his message (still waiting for the other shoe to drop)

* I am pleased with him contacting me and am proud I posted here instead of contacting him (thanks guys)

* Not knowing if his intention is to try to re-engage as I would like it to be. I am now going all negative and thinking he just wants my stuff out of his house.

* I am also musing on the possibility his cinema trip last night could have been with a replacement.

* He could be trying to just be amicable now he has broken up so he doesn’t feel guilty and look like the bad guy.

* He could be keeping me on the back burner

* He could be trying to re-engage – very unsure about this.

* There was no apology or mention of what happened last time we saw each other (I am due one although I know he is dissociated atm)

* And I keep coming back to him telling me I have stuff at his house which I take a bit negatively now. He didn’t ask me to collect it though and he could have just left it at the side of my house if he wanted to.

* I don’t feel so desperate for my “fix” now. I suppose that’s because I got it…

* I didn’t try to steer the conversation into a way of seeing him which I am proud of and a bit surprised about actually (esp after my meltdowns recently)

* My old friend anger has dropped by. I feel angry at him for his social life when I have been so upset.

* I feel wary of him and guarded

* I feel (clarified now that he has contacted me strangely) that I don’t want to be treated like I have been

* I feel that I am worth more respect

So all sorts of things going on in my head. I am very glad he contacted me. It wasn’t the great texts I wanted but they weren’t awful either. Mid way. I don’t want to be a fool and get drawn into having any hopes here – he isn’t giving much away so I don’t know if he wants me and my stuff gone or if it means an excuse for contact. I feel  slightly differently towards him but its hard to put my finger on.  I also know how much easier it is for me to talk tougher after having my “fix” ……mmmmmm………

The doctor I spoke to today has worked with many borderlines in her psychiatric work alongside her normal role. She said they have tendancies to be challenging and manipulative. It was great to speak to a professional about this stuff for the first time. It made me feel validated and took away some of my self blame which was really good for me today. Any of your thoughts welcome as ever! You guys are the greatest – you really are

[sm15000]

Hands start sweating and shaking. Body starts shaking. Feel instantly freezing cold. Bearing in mind THIS reaction is after talking half a valium! Took me 15 mins to pluck up the courage to read the rest of it.

Well to some extent I recognise this but I must say not quite as bad    

For me, it was a sign I was completely out of control. . .and he had all of it  

Any advice on how to handle this?

I think the only way is to try and let reality in - he's shown you who he is in the last few weeks (went back over your posts) - that won't change. . .you'll have to  

[patientandclear]

Three things:

You can do what you want -- you didn't announce NC or anything, it's OK to talk to the guy.

It is not surprising that he wants to be in touch, hang onto some connection.  My ex wanted to stay in close touch after breaking up w/me. It turned out that did not mean he wanted to have or was capable of having a renewed romantic partnership.

Finally -- I have learned the hard way that it means something, something important, if we have a physical aversion & fear reaction to seeing an email or text from our pwBPD.  Your body is telling you you are under threat, in danger.  He is not going to create conditions of safety for you. You have to make yourself safe by expecting only whaat you know he will do.

[connect]

SM and P&C. Yes my "fear" reaction was quite a shock. I don't know how much of that is to do with me being strung out for the last 9 days or because I was scared that the text would be a final goodbye by reading the first part only which was when the fear reaction kicked in as I didn't see the word "sorry". But yes - it wasn't an excited reaction which shows how little I rely on him for safety.

I want him back but I suppose I have to sleep on this.

[benny2]

You stated that you would like his recent contact to be a re-engagement. So many times I went through this, and so many times fell right back into it. I know how you feel. I am so depressed and lonely when we are not communicating and when we start again, I feel all happy inside. It is a sign that you are not ready to let go. I know I am not ready, don't know how many times I have to be beaten down before it happens, but I will say, it seems the more times you re-engage, the harder it becomes. So prepare yourself in case this does happen. No one understands why I stay in this relationship, and that includes myself. I was never co-dependent on anyone else and was always able to walk away with little remorse. Why I cannot with him is a mystery to me. Maybe its the need to get from him what he cannot give me. I just don't know. They are like an addiction and I believe the more they recycle us, the more addicting it becomes.

[MaybeSo]

Are you seeing your own therapist?

Well, he is not safe in the sense he is not a stable person who does consistent stable attachment.

His attachment issues are triggering your own attachment issues. About 3 years into this I had garden variety PTSD responses.

Start digging into your own stuff. Why is this such a hook for you?

For me, it mirrored my on again off again relationship with my father growing up. We worshipped him. He had an affair with another woman and left when I was about five. When

he would show up my sister and I were beside ourselves, elated, jumping up and down, he

was like a visiting rock star and Santa claus all in one. Then he would go away, and

sometimes be gone for months. And we'd just live in suspense of the next appearance. That

was love.

Any wonder why meeting a man with the same unstable attachment patterns triggered me

like no other?  My body remembers on a cellular level, that kind of love and longing. I am

both bewitched and tormented all at once, just like as a child, with dear old dad. Will he

show up again?

Love, longing, abandonment, suspended animation, betrayal, reunification, repeated over

and over and over and over.

Your reactions are being triggered by his behavior. But, I doubt this is your first time at this

particular rodeo. In the middle of it, I couldn't see my reactions  had anything at all to do

with my past and my own stuff. But it most certainly did.

[Grey Kitty]

   Keep breathing!

And keep updating us on what is going on.

One thought for you: If/when he is ready to bounce back into your life and resume the relationship... . Do you want to make any changes this time around?

 GK

[Chosen]

connect,

I don't know that much about the psychology or psychiatry behind BPD, but based on my personal experience, sometimes he re-engages because he wants to see you all over him.  It's not about you- it's about them, and how the pwBPDs in our lives need to feel good about themselves.

So my advice is, first of all, take deep breaths.  Repeat until you are feeling calmer.

Then ask yourself what is it that you want.

I don't think it matters whether you re-engage with him, or not, or anything else, as long as you are sure that this is what you want, and you're not being led by him (or his emotions) passively.

[sm15000]

Just some thoughts on your thoughts  

* The huge reaction I had from getting his message (still waiting for the other shoe to drop)

Those reactions mean something. . .after a year of NC, a couple of months ago I had a request to connect with my ex online - I still - not to your extent - had a reaction of anxiety to seeing a bloody E-Mail  

* I am pleased with him contacting me and am proud I posted here instead of contacting him (thanks guys)

Yes, it was down to him to make the first move but I wouldn't read too much into this

* Not knowing if his intention is to try to re-engage as I would like it to be. I am now going all negative and thinking he just wants my stuff out of his house.

He may want to re-engage/he may not - but it will be on his terms, and I doubt if that's exactly how you want it to be

* I am also musing on the possibility his cinema trip last night could have been with a replacement.

This is very hard and I understand it but if he is going to do this, he will. . .and this is more likely to not happen if you can 'let go' a little - easier said than done I know

* He could be trying to just be amicable now he has broken up so he doesn’t feel guilty and look like the bad guy.

Very possible but that is the nature of the beast

* He could be keeping me on the back burner

Very possible again but you don't have to allow yourself to be put there

* He could be trying to re-engage – very unsure about this.

Yep, again possible - do you want to re-engage KNOWING it may not be the r/s you wanted?

* There was no apology or mention of what happened last time we saw each other (I am due one although I know he is dissociated atm)

There won't be, if you push for one you will go around in circles again

* And I keep coming back to him telling me I have stuff at his house which I take a bit negatively now. He didn’t ask me to collect it though and he could have just left it at the side of my house if he wanted to.

He's testing the waters. . .he wants to see what you will accept

* I don’t feel so desperate for my “fix” now. I suppose that’s because I got it…

That's right   for the moment you feel relieved but you need to attend to this - it's no way to live

* I didn’t try to steer the conversation into a way of seeing him which I am proud of and a bit surprised about actually (esp after my meltdowns recently)

I should imagine this is linked to your physical reaction. . .you want him but you know somewhere deep down that he has the ability to hurt you - self preservation

* My old friend anger has dropped by. I feel angry at him for his social life when I have been so upset.

That's natural. . .but as hurtful as it is, he won't have any awareness of this

* I feel wary of him and guarded

Again, as above - you know he can hurt you

* I feel (clarified now that he has contacted me strangely) that I don’t want to be treated like I have been

OK, what can you do about this?

* I feel that I am worth more respect

You are. . .but you have to get this from YOU - not expect him to do it

There's only a couple of things I would say:

1) Don't let him rush you into meetings - if he suggests it and your body reacts like the E-Mail, it means you're not ready - tell him short and sweet, you don't have to justify or defend that

2) Don't be afraid to state what you want (but don't say anything you know you can't follow through on) and find out what he wants - I didn't do this because my fears got in the way - I didn't combine emotional maturity and honesty with firm boundaries

3) Don't go in wanting apologies, explanations etc etc at the moment - his emotions may be as much all over the place as yours are - it really will just kick it all off again

Good Luck  

[connect]

Thanks so much as ever. Don’t know what I would do without all of you on these boards and all the reading of other people’s experience.

Sm – your delving into my random thoughts was great! It all helps so much. I don’t think some of my friends know as much about the inner workings of my mind as you guys sometimes!

Maybeso –I am sorry about your FOO issues – I can see your link as clear as day. Easier to see this in others isn’t it?  I have been to 10 therapy sessions since February. They helped and I would still be going now but I cant afford them now . She also suggested I looked into my childhood to see what is causing me to react like this to this man. I go to codependant meetings now too (3 so far)

My family was highly dysfunctional. My mother came here from another country and didn’t know the language and didn’t learn it too well. I had to translate what she said to people in shops who would treat her disdainfully or as though there was something wrong with her. I always felt I had to look after her, I felt sorry for her and would try to protect her/stick up for her. She was completely dependant on my father but underneath she did have a tough character.

He was ok when I was below 7 and then became abusive, controlling, used silent treatment in sulks, unstable, thought the world was unfair to him  and was periodically violent to all of us. This would be interspaced with good periods where he would take us for great day trips and talk to me for hours about things he was interested in and wanted me to learn about. I was the family peacemaker. He was ill for a few years and nearly died when I was about 11 so my mother had to raise us alone while he was ill/in hospital. I would have conflicting feelings of hating his behaviour and being terrified he would die. I knew the situation was bad at home and I had no choice but to stay so I had escape mechanisms (top of my year student in school, excelling in sport/music, overachieving, keeping my own secrets so I had things they couldn’t reach in me etc) Eventually I rebelled. My father threw all of us children out of the family home as soon as we each reached 18. He said he had done his duty – this was not what my mother wanted and she would come and visit us and try to help us. Both of my parents died when I was in my thirties.

I have had therapy around this childhood stuff before. Could my father have had BPD?

My b/f’s family dynamic was almost identical.

I have previously noticed the similarities between my b/f and my father in the push/pull and controlling (possibly rages too although am not sure). Not the violence though. I found myself occasionally reacting as I did as a child around my b/f in that I would listen to him for ages talking about “his stuff” which didn’t really interest me. I would sometimes find the eggshells feeling familiar too. Thank you maybeso for making me word this feeling. I have not really examined it before, just felt it vaguely. It has not come up in any of my past healthy r/s’s.

So there could be a link there. My question was to my therapist if I am dealing with childhood stuff as a result of my b/f and this relationship then how do I resolve anything? I have had therapy before about this  -  these things happened and cant be changed. I have forgiven myself for being in that family dynamic. It was quite hard writing this stuff.

I cant help feeling that I am not in the right place to take on the FOO stuff again while I am feeling this vulnerable. I can think about it in relation to whats going on now however... . Maybeso – how did knowing this FOO link help you ref the r/s?

Today I feel negative about my b/f’s contact. Another friend (who knows nothing about BPD) has said that they think he just wants me to get my stuff out of his house. This has depressed me. I feel scared that he is being nice and happy as he has moved on in 9 days and is indifferent to me. A close friend on here has said there is more to this then him just getting my stuff out of his house.  I feel like I want to know one way or the other but to push for that now would result in the r/s ending for good. I know this. I want him back under different terms – meds, therapy, a different structure. The over riding feeling is that I want him back but I am still stuck with not knowing how he feels his end and not being able to push for what I want due to me being a trigger atm. And being disregulated I doubt he knows what he feels either. If he wants me I am there but I don’t have this information yet and cant gauge from the light hearted contact we have had. I would love some encouragement  - success stories – that sort of thing  but its hard. I may write him a letter today (not to send) to clarify things somehow. Am all confused! Do you think I have now got PTSD from this r/s turmoil?

[patientandclear]

I absolutely think it is possible that you are experiencing this as a trauma.  He comes close, tells you how important you are, then really hurts you (vacation with the other woman).  He comes close, tells you how important you are, tells you he is committed to not hurting you again, and then hurts you again, deeply (this breakup).  I assume there was more before I started reading your story, or you wouldn't be on this board

As mentioned, your physical reaction is a strong clue that your body knows he is dangerous to you.  After my ex broke up with me out of the blue, we spent two months in light, warm, friendly contact, and then had a discussion about trying again.  He said he wanted to.  I said I did too, but my condition was that he figure out what caused him to leave so abruptly before, and try to figure out how it wouldn't happen again (I didn't know about BPD then, this was just a basic "wow, you gave us no chance, and I'm pretty sure you're going to feel bad about something again in the future -- I need to know you'll stick around and try with me, not just abandon me again" position.  Seems so reasonable when I type it out here!)  Then I went away for three days.  When I got back, I could tell instantly from texts that everything was different (I said warm loving things about how I couldn't wait to be with him; he was distant and didn't use the word love, for example).  We were scheduled to see each other the next day.  I literally could not sleep a single minute that night.  My body was on complete, high alert for an attack.  I was rigid and shaking.  It knew that I was not safe.  Your body knows that you are not safe.

MaybeSo is right -- the "not safe" feeling is only if what you want is a normal, stable r/s.  He might be "safe" for an advanced BPD r/s like some people on this board have -- you accept he will come & go, you give a ton of space, you have no expectations.  So far that doesn't appear to be where you want to be with him.  So it makes sense you are feeling terribly anxious.  He's not safe.  Whatever he wants right now, 10 days ago he walked out completely.  There is no way whatever was going on there has gone away or resolved itself, right?

I feel like you are in danger of confusing the question "does he still want me?" (to which the answer is almost surely yes, at some level), with "can he sustain a viable r/s with me?" to which the answer is almost surely no, not at this point, not if  you define that r/s as an exclusive one where he doesn't continually leave.

I'm sure his contact with you is not about getting rid of your things.  pwBPD seem to have a preternatural understanding of how to use "your stuff is still at my place" as a pretext for reconnection.  (When my ex revealed he sort of wanted to get back together, he acted like he hadn't known how to convey that, and said "I didn't even have any of your things to give back!"  I think this probably has been a tactic he's used in the past to see women he's left and re-start things.)  I don't think there is much question that this was about him wanting contact.

But there is a world of difference between him wanting contact and him wanting or being able to do a r/s.  My ex really wanted to hold onto some contact with me, and with him, it was a lot -- a close, deep friendship was optimal for him.  He didn't not want me.  He just couldn't quite figure out what to do with me, because he couldn't manage what, at some level, we both wanted -- a real r/s.  So -- don't over-read.  He wants to be connected to you, but that doesn't mean he knows what to do with this.

[MaybeSo]

Agh! My more detailed post was lost.

Some of us have concluded that these painful relationships are gifts that point to wounds that have existed for a long time but have not really been healed.

This was true for me. What I needed was to grieve my losses. I was so in my head and so understanding driven (talk and study ad nauseum) that my childhood trauma was like a book I read, but couldn't feel and so I couldn't  grieve the loss.

The relationship with my ex tapped into that old trauma in a bodily way; there was no more just being in my head. I was clearly having trauma responses and with the pain of the relationship and finally letting go... . I finally grieved my losses for the first time. This is the

gift of theses kinds of painful relationships. Take your time, go at your own pace, but keep

open to the idea that there is more going on here than just a drama-filled romance. And

while grieving loss scares us, keep open to the idea that it can also be healing. Your bf is

just an arrow touching an old wound.

Btw, your bf has his own trauma responses, as you can plainly see, and they have nothing really to do with you or your worth. You are just an arrow, too.

[Grey Kitty]

First,    I'm sorry to see you still so torn up. Your father (maybe) having BPD is a whole 'nuther thing to think about, as if you didn't have enough. But it sure could explain some things, and does sound plausible.

I want him back under different terms – meds, therapy, a different structure.

I'm not sure if this was in answer to my question or not... . but I asked a somewhat different question. What would you do differently if he came back?

I totally understand that you want him to be working on getting better... . but getting him to do it is tough, and may not stick. Is there anything you would change on your side of things?

[connect]

Hello x lovely to read your thoughts, very very kind of you all.

Don't have long so will keep it quick

First,    I'm sorry to see you still so torn up. Your father (maybe) having BPD is a whole 'nuther thing to think about, as if you didn't have enough. But it sure could explain some things, and does sound plausible.

I want him back under different terms – meds, therapy, a different structure.

I'm not sure if this was in answer to my question or not... . but I asked a somewhat different question. What would you do differently if he came back?

I totally understand that you want him to be working on getting better... . but getting him to do it is tough, and may not stick. Is there anything you would change on your side of things?

Greykitty - what would I do differently? I would be less attached. I would lower my expectations. I would not put all my eggs in his basket. I would take space for me not just for him. I would see my friends more. I would un-mesh myself. I would be more interested in me then him. That's what I would do... .

I have a BIG question tonight... .

When he broke up with me he was so crazy and on the edge that I never told him I didn't want to break up. I accepted it to keep him calm as he was in such a mess and I was worried about him. I only realised this today.

I want to tell him this. I would like to see him to tell him. Should I do this when he is dissociated? He seemed better by his texts but I know this could massively backfire. I feel like I need to tell him sooner rather than later. I want to do it over the next few days.

What should I do and how should I approach this? Thanks x

[Grey Kitty]

Don't try to tell him anything challenging (e.g. anything about your relationship!) when he is dissociated.

Has it ever worked well before?

I'd be ready to bring it up when you start seeing him face-to-face again, depending on how he seems.