The Double Standard - how do THEY get away with murder while we "validate"?

[nomoremommyfood]

This is a HUGE vent but I'm just freakin DONE WITH IT! I CAN'T TAKE THIS DISGUSTING, SELFISH, SLEAZEBAG OF A PERSON ANYMORE!

I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M BACK HERE! I'm SO sick of this and I don't think I can take it anymore! I can't take another week watching the phone, making myself sick, and LOSING MY INCOME while waiting for him to stop sulking because of my surprised and hurt reaction to something HE DID!

After TWENTY DAYS of losing weight, insomnia, and shaking anxiety, I was once again on steady ground with my soon-to-be-ex dBPDbf of going on 7 years. and was finally starting to feel normal again. We were talking about movies on the couch and - long story short - I find out via his very suspicious wording that he's been secretly working on a project for the past few months with "someone I don't know." Obviously, it's a girl and - as I pull details - it's a girl he finds attractive... . but don't worry! She'd never be into him! However, if she were into him, he'd probably reciprocate. OH. MY GOD.

I trusted him for six years and I NEVER thought he'd CONSIDER cheating on me. I'm heartbroken like never before. Though I don't think anything is going on and he was nice when he left, I was still very shaken by hearing that and had to go to a huge business meeting immediately after. Needless to say, the meeting went poorly. I called him and snapped.

I admittedly said something really mean. He screamed me out, dumped me, he'd given me "too many chances" and I "didn't deserve him." I tried to calm down and ask for empathy over the fact that he'd called me stupid, ugly, mentally retarded, etc. and I'd forgiven him but the best I could get was him agreeing to call it a bad day and talk about it later.

Now, I'M in the doghouse. WHERE'S MY CHANCE TO MAKE MISTAKES OVER SOMETHING JUSTIFIABLY HURTFUL? Yeah, he's mentally ill. You know what? SO AM I! And a lot worse than his little personality disorder! I can trump his little suicide complaints with long hospital stays and his whining to "end it all" with near overdoses! I've been in WAY WORSE places than him, recovered WITHOUT INSURANCE, and even at my lowest point NEVER LOST THE HUMANITY HE SIMPLY DOES NOT POSSESS!

Why don't I have the right to be angry, upset, hurt or even forgiven? Why am I "validating" and "soothing" someone whom - despite my mean remark - already told me in (not when dysregulated) that they'd probably cheat on me if they had the chance? Eye for an eye sucks but it's better this jaw-dropping double-standard! What should I have said, "it seems you're angry that I reacted to your wanting to have sex with some random girl behind my back. I understand how you feel... . "

I'm too worn down to do the "right" thing to end the fight. I just got over a 20 day depression FOUR DAYS AGO I need it over NOW! I can't have my work and life on hold AGAIN. I'm furious at my self for calling and insulting him (and losing the upper hand) and now I'm a humiliation to my friends, my work, and myself.

He may as well have spit in my face and I countered. When are WE allowed to be human, too?

[Chosen]

First of all, nomoremommyfood 

I know exactly what you mean, although in my case it wasn't cheating, but it was pushing other kinds of boundaries.  To be honest, I don't think we are ever allowed to be human with them.  But we have to learn that whether or not they "allow" us our feelings/ thoughts, we have them nontheless.  Ok, so every time we are unhappy/ frustrated/ disagree with them they will not like it and they will say we are in the wrong, but then again, we are never going to be right with them anyway, so why push our own boundaries for the sake of pleasing them?

Every single time I do something H doesn't like, he will say he has given me many chances, and I don't deserve all this from him (yeah, and I also don't deserve the abuse I was given, if we're counting, right?).  But that was his choice, and it doesn't give them the right to do bad things against us either.  But this argument requires the logic of a normal person... . and pwBPDs are emotional beings, not logical ones, sadly.

Personally, I'm encountering something that made me really angry too.  Due to something really insignificant that happened, H has (again) sent me an email telling me to reflect on myself and say how out of all the other members of my family I am the least caring of them all, and how I can't be bothered with them (which is not true), and because of this I have no right to criticise other people, and he should not have bothered with me.  And then of course it goes on to list all the good things he has done for me, all the support he has given me... . but of course it doesn't include the days and nights when he complained at me, raged at me, could not even shut up for a minute to let us have space, and so on... .

Sorry I don't have advice for you but I understand your frustration and anger.

[connect]

Hi nomoremummyfood  

Wow that was an impressive vent! Am sorry you feel it but good to see one like that on here as its exactly how I feel sometimes - EXACTLY!

Lots there that is bothering you I can see - the recovery from the 20 day depression and insomnia, anxiety etc (am in the same place myself now on day 12) Was this as a result of silent treatment from him etc? Mine is. You also have the comments he made. Yes, he is not doing anything but I imagine you are p'ed off that he has been doing this project with her and you didnt know. The finding her attractive bit is tactless but my bf would say the same tactless things to me. The implication that he is not doing anything with her as "she's not interested" is pants to hear and doesnt reassure you but then BPD's are not famous for their reassurance! In similar situations mine would say ":)o you think I have time for an affair?" He didnt say that he wouldnt have an affair it seemed to be due to lack of time! I think this is due to the lack of tact and the lack of empathy. He isnt doing anything but you just want some reasssurance for once! Then of course when you get upset about it you feel you are not allowed to have a responce and it all goes south... . know it well... . know it well... . then you think "can I go through this again?"

Some questions - what was your 20 day depression about?

What do you think will happen now with the pattern of your r/s?

I am so new to all this (since feb) so can offer some sympathy and say i have been there matey and it does suck I know. Are you getting some treatment for your anxiety? I am now and it is helping so so much - I would recommend it.

I have posted about similar thing before and received FABULOUS advice so you may find it helpful looking at my old posts and the answers i got when I have been tied up in knots

[connect]

Just thought I would write more... .

One of my similar scenarios was him telling me about his wonderful day at work, he was jumping around like a puppy after being off with me for days. Turned out he'd been working for a woman all day and she was really cool. Turned out she was a physcologist. Big house. When I asked it turned out she was very attractive and they got on like a house on fire. His good day seemed due to this. She even texted him the following day to say what fun it was having him doing work on her house. (Bear in mind WE also met this way!) So I needed reassurance and I didnt shout at him. I asked for reassurance but I was a bit snippy (not as snippy as I wanted to be) The result? The same as whats happening to you. Also got about 5 days silent treatment to top it off.   When we resolved it he said he was upset that i seemed to want him to be unhappy. Your one might react the same making this about the "project". Hope you are ok 

[dickL]

i share your frustration nomoremommyfood . uBPDw of35yrs lied and cheated with several men while knowingly having a std . the infidelity was blamed on me , the std was blamed on me , our S's leukemia was my fault . i tried to reasom w/ her  that her compulsion for attention ( sex ) endangered innocent people , partners of her lovers , their family. it can cause several forms of cancer. she's had 2 surgeries to remove pre-cancerous areas. monogamy or abstinence are the only way to avoid infecting others. this conversation not surprisingly infuriated her . she's been gone 3mo nc and will endanger many texans. how in the world do i validate such reckless behavior ? my T has been helpful in repairing me . she's not evil , i do love her . i won't be the whipping post for her any longer. divorce isn't recommended by lawyer so i got a lot of work for me ahead. see a T if you don't and look out for yourself . good luck your not alone .

[nomoremommyfood]

The 20-day depression was due to a silent treatment - admittedly, he had his own issues but it was knocked off by a verbal attack on me before he disappeared. He knows I get upset by talk of other women and this particular scream-out last month was thick in discussion of how he was "more in love with at least five female friends" than me. Then, he freaked out for over a month while I held my breath both that he'd return and that he wouldn't kill himself.

This is only the fourth time I've seen him since then and I'm STILL upset over the infidelity-related things he said in THAT fight that, of course, I dare not address to avoid enraging him again. I'm still trying to recover from THAT and he drops another bomb on me! Now, his daily threats to break up are tinged with "does he really want to break up with me or is he just trying to get with someone else?"

20 days in a state of doubt - with anxiety in the back of my minds during his silent treatment about finding someone else - then hit with an admission of working on a hidden art project (similar to something I'd wanted to do with him for years!) with someone they find very attractive but - don't worry! - he'd "never have a chance with her" because he's "too ugly for her" and she "always has boyfriends" so any affair - THOUGH HE WOULDN'T TURN DOWN THAT OPPORTUNITY - would be only "a fantasy" for him.

ANYONE who had been put through THAT - followed by going to a huge meeting with a high-paying client they NEEDED for their income while unprepared and unfocused - would by likely to finally snap.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MY ONE MEAN REMARK HAS TAKEN PRECEDENCE OVER THE FACT THAT HE INTENDED TO CHEAT ON ME! How DOES he have the upper hand, here? I can understand yelling and feeling immediately hurt by what I said, but why am I begging him to not dump ME on the spot in between explaining that I'm still really, really hurt and confused by what he told me? HE'S DONE WAY WORSE THINGS TO ME THOUSANDS OF TIMES - LIKE, EARLIER THAT DAY - AND I'VE BEEN MORE THAN UNDERSTANDING!

By the way, I'm fine with him having female friends, working on art projects, checking out other women, and even fantasizing about other women. If he said, "I'm working on a project with my friend _____" I wouldn't have cared. I'm upset about him hiding it from me, refusing to reveal who the person was, then admitting he wouldn't turn her down if she was interested in him. From someone I totally believed faithful, that's HEAVY.

I send him a text last night saying I was stupid for making up mean things because my feelings were hurt and that I'm sorry. I'm going to try and text him again just because I can't go through the silent treatment again... . particularly when I now think the silent treatment is him cavorting with someone else!

[SadWifeofBPD]

WHERE'S MY CHANCE TO MAKE MISTAKES

That's just it.  We're not allowed to make mistakes.  We're not allowed to have faults.  We're expected to be perfect problem solvers, calm, patient, smart, clever, forgiving, conversation managers, soothers, etc... . 24/7.

The more that you're away from your BF, the more clear this all will be.  If you need to make a permenent break, after a few weeks, you may find yourself wondering why you stayed as long as you did.  

Why don't I have the right to be angry, upset, hurt or even forgiven? Why am I "validating" and "soothing" someone whom

that's the frustrating part.  No one is nurturing us.  No one is validating us.  No one is soothing us.  It's a big one-way street.  It would be one thing if our partners were normal and then late-in-life became senile/difficult for a few years before death.  No, these folks are this way for 80+ years.  They're rarely ever rational, comforting, etc. 

I can see why my sister (a T) says that T's like to avoid these folks - because they're too exhausting - and they're only having to deal with them one hour a week!   T's only have to validate and reassure for a very short time, not 24/7.

PwBPD are the ones who don't deserve us. 

[nomoremommyfood]

Wow, I kept looking for this post in my usual "Staying" board, then realized in was in "Undecided." Where I guess it should be... . ugh.

We just got off the phone. I was pretty much dragged over the coals, trying to validate but occasionally just getting upset over the ugly comments. Choice comments include my unattractive looks (again), stupidity, incompetence in holding down a job (ironically, countered with "I don't want to hear about your new client, I told you never to discuss work or money with me), his intent to - should any other woman show interest in him - have sex with her on the spot, and his desire to be with a calm "hippie chick" (a REAL dig, as I've seen his delightful new "friend"... . and her trite photography. I guess it's now "uncool" for creative types to need paying clients instead of living off play-doh sculpture, trust funds or, in his case, state-sponsored disability).

I'm trying to balance the fact that he was in an obvious rage with genuine concern over the above. And am now confused over his claim that "all his friends" have told him to "dump me," with some of the names being people who have equally told ME how great I am for him. Um, so who's lying here?

We ended in the sell-out conclusions that:

1.) I'll "never speak of" his charming little friend's little "art project" again

2.) If he meets someone else, he has to tell me before anything happens (doubt ALL of this will happen)

3.) We keep going out and he'll keep abusing me - this I settled on, as I know he'll calm down and it won't actually happen. Though he will "hold a grudge for the rest of his life."

... . And all because I snapped at him for VERY reasonable concerns over him meeting in secret with a "beautiful woman" who holds no threat because "someone like her would never be interested in him."

GAG!

[Newton]

nomoremommyfood... . I'm truly sorry things are so tough for you right now... . I would be just as exhausted, angry and pissed (and I was many times before with my BPDex)... .

This isn't a flippant remark... . I have read the entirety of your thread... . just a different angle... .

Is it possible the "decision" to post on the undecided board (where you conceded this belongs)... . was a subconcious one?... . potentially something you may need to explore?... .

I found it interesting that you assumed you had posted on staying, yet the subject and content seems very much at home here... .

[nomoremommyfood]

nomoremommyfood

Is it possible the "decision" to post on the undecided board (where you conceded this belongs)... . was a subconcious one?... . potentially something you may need to explore?... .

I'm really not sure what happened - looking over the content, my first thought was that a moderator had moved it. Then, I wondered if I was so enraged (and drunk, to boot) that I'd done it myself. I'm really not sure.

Also,

Your one might react the same making this about the "project".

\

He did. He began by claiming I "wouldn't let him to a project with a friend" which I never said or did. Now, his stance is that he "tried to share something with me" and I can "never be forgiven" for turning it on him. Yeah, the kind of "sharing" you do when you're coerced into giving details of something you've intentionally concealed for months. Maybe they should refer to criminal interrogations as just "sharing sessions"!

We're "back on" for now but I don't know how I'm going to stand being around him. Not only is my trust nil but I don't even get to bring up my concerns to him! If I were to even act uncomfortable or avoid him, I couldn't tell him why... . and would get screamed at for "acting weird," regardless. He tore into me FOUR TIMES in under three weeks, with THREE onslaughts in the last 48 hours and those wounds will NEVER be addressed. He's free to dole out abuse because I make one mean slip-up, but my upset over HOURS UPON HOURS of nonstop low-blow insults.

And every book on the subject only tells you how to avoid arguments or make things easier FOR THEM. What are you supposed to do when they've made YOU angry? Shut up, protect your hide, and let them continue TAKING ZERO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS!

Why do the normal rules of human interaction not apply to them? ANYONE else - even those with far worse mental illness - would be held culpable for their actions. A schizophrenic friend pulled some really cruel stuff on me during an episode and she was incredibly remorseful and apologetic FOR MONTHS after it happened... . despite believing herself to be Fidel Castro's daughter at the time!

Another rant, I guess... . BUT WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO, HERE?

[danley]

Validating and comforting someone with this kind of mentality is draining. Of course you do it because you care. I don't think your vent was out of place. I'd be upset too. And my ex would probably say something similar to your guy. My ex never cheated on me at least I believe not. But he too has brought on situations that he knows if the tables were turned he himself wouldn't like. Doesn't think how it would feel to be on the receiving end of some of his comments and ideas.

I'm glad you got to vent here. You have feelings too and they ARE important.

[connect]

Nomoremummyfood - you know what - we are DEFINATELY going out with the same guy! How does he fit in both of us?

You do sound pretty angry to me and I know how that feels as mine does the EXACT same thing! I was also told (when his attractive female client give him a great day   that all he was doing was sharing his life with me and that I wanted him to be unhappy and depressed. He said I was jealous and controlling. He said that he would never discuss his work with me again. He said that he wont share things with me again if I don't want him to be happy.

Also like yours, my scenario was on the back of a massive bust up over his "female friends" which I also hadn't got anywhere near resolving in my mind. This work one triggered me even more as I felt at the time that he knew damn well he was pressing my buttons (I now think he didn't know as he doesn't get it), I also felt that he was goading me (in hindsight probably wasn’t) I also felt that he hadn’t allowed me to deal with the first big issue before unleashing this smaller one. I have observed that mine will do something that is a massive deal for me resulting in a big fall out – then straight after he will follow it up with a few smaller shots before I have recovered from the big one. It seems to be a pattern for my one. They sound similar so maybe be on guard for another one.

The positive here is that you are still communicating and he hasn’t completely shut down. That is good. I just rode out the storm even though it was so hard and I hate the "waiting" feeling I get (I also fear a potential replacement being lined up on his many silent treatments and that is why I think they are harder for me then if I just believed it was time alone for him). Kept reading on here. Am trying to practise becoming unmeshed as mine is a guy who I cannot do this with and this causes me more pain.

I am looking at ways I can let this stuff go. A lot of the time I think they are just being tactless, perhaps testing us to see if we are better and not jealous anymore, saying stuff they have no intention of acting on, reminding themselves they are not trapped, etc etc – but I think its their stuff and part of the disorder that they say these hurtful things.

Thinking of you. Go and punch a pillow and scream or send me a pm with lots of swearing in!

[nomoremommyfood]

The positive here is that you are still communicating and he hasn’t completely shut down. That is good. I just rode out the storm even though it was so hard and I hate the "waiting" feeling I get (I also fear a potential replacement being lined up on his many silent treatments and that is why I think they are harder for me then if I just believed it was time alone for him).

Actually, I AM being doled the silent treatment. Ironically, my contact with him yesterday morning was to wrap up this situation as quickly as possible to AVOID another stonewalling. He's previously stated that he disappears because he's too upset to talk, and that he's just taking my advice to take time to cool down when you're angry. I meant taking a time-out when a fight was escalating and our mutual agreement was that he would TELL ME why he couldn't speak so I don't think it's punitive. But it's ALWAYS punitive.

The words he doled out his sudden and massive tear-down a month ago on a date he invited me on, followed by three weeks of silence - incited by my new hair cut and "wrong" outfit (direct quote: "How am I supposed to stick my ______ in something that looks like that?" - still run through my head. Particularly stuff about how, now that he knows I hate the silent treatment, I can expect it all the time. That he'll be taking on whatever "mistresses" will have him and I can deal with it (but anyone I'd be with would surely pass him an STD). And that he's been going around getting advice from his and our friends on how to dump me. So he's pretty much trashed my reputation to our circle of friends... . now ON TAPE for his trashy little friend's art project! I THOUGHT I was paranoid in thinking his silences meant he was lining up my replacement - GUESS I WAS WRONG!

Oh, and by the way, this was right before backing out of a BIG DEAL wedding he's been slated to attend with me for months. Two months ago, he pulled this crap after ignoring my birthday. Now, he's pulling it after getting caught gazing lustfully at some talentless trash behind my back. His behavior - making ME the guilty party then disappearing in a huff - is the worst after his most disgusting offenses. After a while, I get so desperate for normalcy, I'll admit to anything just to end it and NOW fully believe it's a CONSCIOUS manipulative attempt to receive a "get out of

Because I'm hoping to make this a constructive thread:

JADE? Like a LOT of the advice in self-help books for partners of pwBPD, I don't fine JADE or other advice pandering and quelling the mentally ill-though-guilty party fair to EITHER person. WHY do we absolve them of their actions? How am I supposed to not justify or explain my actions? If I snapped and said something wrong, WHY don't I get the chance to explain that I snapped?

He snaps CONSTANTLY. We all know they have a hard time (or lack) empathy. If we don't give them our side of the story, how will they ever learn to see outside themselves?

[danley]

I feel in a relationship there are strengths and weaknesses to each individual. And in a healthy relationship, where you are strong in one area, you're more willing to be patient where your partner is weaker. But there is also hope that your partner will learn to grow and learn from their weaknesses with you as an example. Unfortunately the nature of many of our partners with BPD don't make it to this. After a while, validation can only go so far. Sometimes you get impatient. I think that's what most of us went or are going thru.

Hang in there and realize your limitations. Know when enough is enough. Hard to do when you care so much. I understand.

[KellyO]

First:  , and I so understand you.

And when I look back to my rs, I always remember something "2010" wrote in one of her insightful posts: "Eventually they have to do something so awful you can't overlook it anymore". It is all about abandonment. Disordered person has to make it happen. Either they abandon you, or you abandon them. But someone has to abandon someone, because it is their version of love. So it is this big abandonment-carouselle going over and over. So where does validation fit in all this? I seriously have no idea. Validation is not my thing, and so I'm on the already left-board, and occasionally lurk here because for long time I was undecided too. I tried to validate but I just felt myself fake and phoney. Validating children I can do, but one-sided constant emotional soothing of an adult man was not my thing.

[nomoremommyfood]

This is UNBEARABLE!

I have so many questions and I don't even know where to begin... . and now everything for the past 2-3 months they've been having this great "connection" together seems suspicious, but I'm GAG-ORDERED!

I have a male friend with BPD and even he was stunned, saying a lot of people would have set someone's possessions on fire if they were spoken to like that. We talked for about half an hour - from the admitted desire and lack of qualms over infidelity to my fury over the phone a few hours later to his two days of insisting, at kindest that I was unhealthy for him (I've been nursing him through a long depression when even his family disappeared) and at lowest that I was too stupid to know he'd spent the past six years finding me physically repulsive and wanting me gone to the now silent treatment I'm receiving as punishment.

Apparently, he's taking his guilt and his pain and tossing it back to me, letting me suffer so he doesn't have to face up to it. And, after I TOLD him I'd forgiven him (though I'm, of course, never forgiven), making me wait in silence until I'm so desperate for it to end, I'll let anything slide. Ever since I told him how much the silent treatment upsets me, he's used it in spades. Even worse, he KNOWS the last three week silent treatment left me underweight, physically sick, unable to work, and in need of medical care. He's already stated he'd be amused if I died and I KNOW he's getting off on putting someone's life in jeopardy!

Everything is going wrong - all my friends refuse to talk about him, and I either can't concentrate on work for my good clients or am so furiously angry at my bad clients I'm about ready to quit... . just got an email from a wealthy and insane client scolding me for working with my intern in a coffeeshop instead of my personal apartment. I almost took a sledgehammer to the walls.

I don't know what to do and this silent treatment is messing with my mind. I hate myself for screaming at him and am starting to see that maybe he didn't have any interest all that time - I take really good care of him and maybe he was just using me for that, or for hitty sex while thinking of someone else, or as a temporary girlfriend until someone better expressed interest. This whole time I've been more nuts about him by the day, maybe he's just been putting up with someone ugly because he thought that was the best he could do.

He's not really the "fear of abandonment" type, more of the "get rid of" type. Maybe he had/has no feelings for me and IS just stringing me along until someone better comes along? When is it possible for people to both have BPD and be, well, inherently BAD people?

[KellyO]

Read everything you wrote about yourself, and then ask yourself: is one man really worth all that trouble? You are not married. You have no children. This is your life you are talking about. You are trashing your precious life. Is one MAN really worth it? And if you think he is, what makes you think he is? I'm not concerned of he not giving a damn about you, I'm concerned for you not giving a damn about you. If you would, you would not try to desperately cling in one person who makes every effort to make you suffer and destroy your life.

Sorry for being harsh.

[SadWifeofBPD]

I always remember something "2010" wrote in one of her insightful posts:

"Eventually they have to do something so awful you can't overlook it anymore". It is all about abandonment. Disordered person has to make it happen. Either they abandon you, or you abandon them. But someone has to abandon someone, because it is their version of love. So it is this big abandonment-carouselle going over and over.

This makes sense.  I never realized that they "have to make it happen," but I guess that's why the often-descriptor is "a history of unstable relationships" (usually short term ones). 

So where does validation fit in all this? I seriously have no idea. Validation is not my thing, and so I'm on the already left-board, and occasionally lurk here because for long time I was undecided too. I tried to validate but I just felt myself fake and phoney. Validating children I can do, but one-sided constant emotional soothing of an adult man was not my thing.

I can understand this.  It is almost impossible to commit to a life-long challenge of validating the ridiculous.  We validate young children, but that isn't life-long, they grow up. 

I know that some people like to equate caring for a pwBPD, to caring for someone who suddenly has a serious brain injury or becomes senile.   I just don't think they're comparable.

My dad was a very normal man and father.  When he was in his late 80s, he became senile and difficult because of the Alzheimers.  However, his "difficult" behavior was NOTHING like a pwBPD's behavior... . and it was for only a short time... . a few years before he died.  We knew his behavior wasn't "him" and we knew that we all could be this way at some point.

again, dad's difficult behavior didn't require constant validation.  It didn't involve scary rages.  Yes, he'd "fight us" (figuratively) about taking his meds, eating, and getting dressed, but we found ways to happily trick him into "going along".   (yes trick him... . ... . we'd warm his clothes up in the dryer before putting them on so he'd go "ahhhhhh" when we'd dress him... . and he was happy with warm clothes.   Or we'd tell him, "if you take your pills you'll have a better nap this afternoon." And, he'd then agree to take them.)   These aren't things you can really do with a pwBPD. 

[nomoremommyfood]

Read everything you wrote about yourself, and then ask yourself: is one man really worth all that trouble? You are not married. You have no children. This is your life you are talking about. You are trashing your precious life. Is one MAN really worth it? And if you think he is, what makes you think he is? I'm not concerned of he not giving a damn about you, I'm concerned for you not giving a damn about you. If you would, you would not try to desperately cling in one person who makes every effort to make you suffer and destroy your life... . Sorry for being harsh.

I totally understand this sentiment (though I'm unmarried for political reasons and childless by choice). The consensus is and always has been "dump him now" but I pride myself on my sense of logic and don't make irreversible decisions when I'm emotionally-charged and confused. As we all know, pwBPD are like Jekyll and Hyde and, right now, I don't know what side of the coin to believe! His cruel words over the past month are countered by six years of sweet actions. On the whole, his good days outnumber the bad though the bad are admittedly very, very bad. I always thought he cared about me and it adds to my humiliation to consider he perhaps spent this long manipulating me or tricking me or using me. Can he really be that evil?

Something also occurred to me that makes me think I made a terrible mistake.

My bf has been in a depressive episode for the past three months. These occur every few years and go on for about 4 months. Myself and others have witnessed him becoming increasingly isolated (he sees and speak to almost no one), losing weight, going on increasingly risky gambling sprees, abandoning his music, and verbally attacking or entirely pushing away those closest to him and increasing his usual suicidal talk. After he verbally attacked me a month ago, he disappeared for 20 days, causing my depression as I worried for his life.

That morning, he'd asked me how to inject heroin (I'm a former addict) and said he was searching for people who would sell to him. After we fought about the other girl, there was a brief calm moment between us. He genuinely asked how it would react me if he was to die and wouldn't, in the end, I be better with him gone. He left on good terms but I quickly became upset again after he was gone. When I called and insulted him, his voice sounded happy to hear from me and he didn't expect it.

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and I can feel his pain, as well as my own. I want to be there for him, because I know how badly he's also hurting. I'm not supposed to JADE, but want him to see how stress and exhaustion from dealing with a sick person caused me to break down. How?

[connect]

Hi Nomoremummyfood,

Checking in to see how you're doing?

Let us know 

[Clearmind]

To stay takes some acceptance that your partner is BPD and working with the tools

The alternative is to leave

Either way an approach needs to be considered.

This is the raw reality of being with a person who is BPD! Sad truth maybe - but its the reality.

[babyducks]

NoMoreMommyFood,

I have been following your threads and am sorry to hear that things continue to be so difficult for you.

For me one of the misconceptions I had about JADE, was who it was suppose to benefit.  JADE was for me not for my pwBPD.

Some one here wrote this about JADE a while back and unfortunately I have forgotten who it was:

"She is attempting to get you to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain yourself.  This gives her the control of the conversation.  Its an manipulation technique to re engage you without taking responsibility for herself.  If you must answer a simple answer will do.   If you don't want to answer, realize that they are emotional children.  They cant give you what you need because they are not capable."

take care of yourself first and foremost.

babyducks

[4now]

 

Hello,

I really "enjoyed" reading your original post, I laughed out loud a few times.  Only because you have a gift with words and a few parts were very funny!  I am sorry, though, that you are dealing with what you are.  I could relate to a lot of it. I am sorry you experienced such an episode of depression. This was me too about two years ago.  I have, for the most part, come a long way away from that.  I have found that the more "enmeshed" I am with my uBPDh the more he affects me emotionally.  The push/pull really can do a number on a person. 

Your post was concerning if we ever get to be human or make mistakes.  Interestingly, I posted this same thing about two weeks ago on the staying board.  It seems as if the answer is a resounding no.  Not really.  Not with them.  But, just because they don't like our emotions or our reactions to things doesn't mean we don't get to have them.  Just don't expect them to like them. 

I don't think anyone really offered you the alternative I am about to, but I will tell you what I have noticed and what has worked for me.  I found that my h can't handle any weakness from me at all.  He can't handle me acting "jealous" or insecure whatsoever.  So I found that if I was feeling these things, it was best to keep it to myself as he would see it as a sign of weakness, even if it was just needing reassurance, and he would treat me badly I think because he saw me as  weak.  At first this was mind over matter, I kind of faked it.  But I also realized that it was pointless to look for reassurance from someone who could give none.  Like trying to get water from a dry well.  Now, honestly, the man couldn't make me feel jealous if he tried. (I shouldn't write that, it might get tested now!)  I think I am that detached.

Anyway, I am not saying it's right or the healthy thing to do, but it's best not to look for reassurance from the person who is making you feel insecure (if they have BPD).  Just saying, don't let him have that power.

[morningagain]

Hey nomoremommyfood  

I am glad you posted.  This made me recall, rather vividly, the outrage I felt while the ongoing invalidation, raging, mind-bending double standards, catch-22's, etc. were daily events.  And the subsequent outrage I felt from learning here that somehow we had to suck-it-up and take it (by not JADE-ing, for example)

So over many months, multiple horrendous grieving cycles, a brief recycle, thousands of hours venting, reading, learning, understanding, and a 1000+ mile distance and limited contact, I do not get triggered myself so easily, and when I do, far less so.  Still coping with depression, anxiety, etc.

And I have concluded that each discussion now lacks an emotional and even intellectual connection.  Now I am more attractive to her as I slowly rebuild myself and my life.  But there is the lack of any meaningful connection - for me.  And that is now resulting in my being less emotionally  entertaining for her on either the upside or the downside - which I suppose caps how much she may be attracted.

I would just caution any responses from your BPD friend - my wife can see clearly frequently others' perspectives, but not always.  When she is not personally affected.  My caution is not on the accuracy of your friend's comments, it is how you take them - in his own relationships, he may be as irrational as your bf, but where someone is not so close, especially for a long time, he may be very wise and compassionate.  Point is, it is unfair to compare or have some kind of false expectation that "he (BPD friend) can see how outrageous the behavior is, why can't my bf?"

And for me, I am slowly learning to detach with love.  But also experiencing that I do not want to live in such a lonely relationship devoid of emotional connection.  The void is there now while she is in the 'pull' phase.  sadly, the void only increases with nearer proximity.



Jason