Insane demands

[cska]

Hey all! 

I wanted to share my experience with you and ask for your feedback.

Here is a short backstory: The way I met my BPD gf, was through school. I was not satisfied with my career, so I came back to school to take more courses, and then apply to medical school. My BPD gf happened to be in the same boat, she also came back to school and wanted to go into medicine. Actually one of the reasons why I was attracted to her was b/c she had a strong passion for medicine, just like myself.

I did very well in my classes, whereas my gf's illness prevented her from doing well. She did very bad for two consecutive semesters.

So for the past 2 weeks, I was NC, but I couldn't take it any longer, I missed her too much, and we got back together a couple of days ago.

Now, we're not speaking again, and the reason why I'm on the leaving boards is because she made a demand that I will not fulfill.

She told me that she doesn't want me to go into medicine, because she is insecure about herself, and would feel inferior if I pursue a career in medicine. She said that the only way she will be with me is if I resume my career that I left in favor of pursuing medicine, even though she knows that I'm very enthusiastic about medicine and that I don't really like my previous career (I was an engineer).

That is extraordinarily selfish, and I've pointed that out to her, but she tells me that she can't change the way she feels. I understand the pwBPD fear abandonment, so I can understand her extreme jealousy, but what does her fear of abandonment have to do with her not wanting me to pursue a certain career. And of course she blames me for choosing "everything over her", even though that is not true.

(I should note that she does recognize that she is not right, and she is in therapy right now, but she says that she can not change how she feels, and therapy will take a long time to "kick in".)

Also, I just got an offer for a great job in a medical field that I was planning to work at until I start med school. But she told me that she didn't want me to take that job because it is related to science, and that makes her feel insecure. Basically, she doesn't want me to do anything science related, even though she knows that I'm very passionate about it. What the hell? I guess her mentality is "if I can't get it, I don't want my significant other to get it neither".

I think this is the most selfish thing I've ever heard! Its completely insane!

Is it normal for a pwBPD to make such selfish demands which have nothing to do with abandonment per se? I still can't wrap my mind about how a person can make such a demand... . I would feel embarrassed to even suggest that my significant other should change her career just because I want her to... .

[Linlu53]

I feel for you! My H would not let me get a job at a hospital because they all have affairs there. When I was through with nursing school he let me get a job at a nursing home. I guess no one he knew worked at a nursing home and had affairs! It is exasperating to say the least. Please get yourself away! You are no married and don't have children with her yet. I'm sure she feels u will find someone else in the medical field and will leave her. I have spent the last 35 years catering to my uBPDh. I'm just now starting to realize what has been going on. Can't believe I still have my sanity. Leave while u still have yours!

[seeking balance]

Is it normal for a pwBPD to make such selfish demands which have nothing to do with abandonment per se?

yes it is normal for a pwBPD, you see the abandonment is either REAL or PERCEIVED - this is mental illness, so trying to apply rational thought will only serve to drive you crazy 

cska - I have not doubt you love her, but there is a lot more to love than simply a feeling.  A relationship with a pwBPD is a big undertaking, as is med school.  I think  you see the writing on the wall with this, as such, the kindest and most loving thing you can do is stop expecting her to be something she cannot be.  If  you want rational and sane, let her go - it is the kindest thing for each of you.

Hope that wasn't too big of a reality dose for  you - I tend to appreciate straight talk.

Peace,

SB

[LosingIt2]

This is intriguing. I am going back to school as well. My xBPD, after the devaluation started, made me feel worthless and unsuccessful... . which is partly motivating me. Not to prove her wrong, but to prove myself right.

I'm sure if everything went according to plan and I was fulfilled in my career she would have had an issue with that too, eventually.

It seems they know exactly where to strike to make you vulnerable and for them to be back on top. 

When she says this is how she feels and she can't change that, she is telling you she is unwilling to change so take it or leave it. I realize it's a disorder, it's still insanely selfish and according to her you're just going to have to accept that you have to make all the sacrifices.

So after she has this "breakthrough" in therapy, years down the line... . you would have already sacrificed your life's direction and goals. So many problems with this scenario.

[feelingcrazy7832]

My ex got extremely nervous and had anxiety over me taking my current position in a hospital. It was a big opportunity for me and was a promotion. I know he felt threatened because I would be working around many doctors. He was threatened over many things but I thought it was weird he was more anxious about my job than I even was.

Don't let this girl ruin your dreams and career choices. Medicine is a great field and I can't believe someone would demand this of you. Next time, it will be a different demand that is unreasonable.

[Linlu53]

Yes, fortunately I love geriatrics so I am in the field of my choice. Plus the pay is better here than our local hospitals. The only way I am even a nurse is because I separated from him 3 years ago and enrolled in nurses training. I just needed him to change. He seemed to change. Most of the bad behavior was gone. Looking back I see we just cycled back to the idealizing phase. Now I see the devaluing coming back. If I don't agree or do something just like he thinks I should I can go from being wonderful wife to bhit or idiot in a matter of seconds! I didn't put a garbage can in the right place and he called me bhit!  I thought I would be smarter this time. This was my third time leaving and returning. He asks me almost everyday if I'm gonna leave. Do I still love him, am I his friend? I get tired of him asking. At least I am beginning to learn some real ways to deal with his crazy making. Whether I have the strength to carry them out is anothe matter altogether!

[Murbay]

cska, it seems to be perfectly normal for them to do this and there very well could be an element of abandonment involved that makes sense in their heads but that you cannot see the logic behind. Possibly she sees a medical career as something that will keep you away from the house for long hours and therefore not spending the time with her. The issue, as feelingcrazy has said is that those demands constantly change because they need you to change something to fix their need but it doesn't so the demands keep changing.

When I first moved to my exBPDw's country, I couldn't work because I didn't have a work permit and there was a 12 month delay on it coming through. I gave up an amazing job, that not only paid well but was in my area of expertise and in a position I had worked almost 10 years to accomplish. So I was in my ex's country, unemployed for the first time in 15 or so years, being criticised for not being able to help with bills (not because I didn't want to but because I wasn't allowed to), being told that if I had a job she wouldn't be so critical and angry.

She suggested I work illegally but as that would really go down well with immigration, and the fact that her brother was a police officer, I did the only thing I could do and went back to my own country for work. That created more issues since now she felt abandoned but didn't want to go with me. Eventually she gave me an ultimatum, I either stay where I am and the marriage was over or I give up the job and come back, even though the money was to help with the bills. I was fortunate because my company is a global company and they didn't want me to leave. What they did was allowed me to take my job with me, so I got to work and I got to stay with my wife. You would have thought that was enough, I actually got to work from home, spend time with her, earn a decent amount of money, contribute to bills and so on, but it wasn't.

Next came the fact that she "felt" like I was going to abandon her simply because my company was in another country and that it was a foot out the door. The job was no longer good enough because it wasn't a job in her country. She was also spending way too much money and wanted me to have a job that paid $100k - $150k a year but have all the benefits of being there to take care of her. So while I was looking for work in her country, nothing was good enough because it didn't pay enough and that maybe I should get another job on top of the one I had so we had more money.

As you can see, demands change all the time and no doubt if you quit what you were doing, I have no doubts it still won't be good enough and there will always be other demands that follow.

[cska]

Thank you for all the replies, and for being the voice of reason. When I'm in the BPD whirlpool, its so easy to lose sight of yourself. pwBPD are very skilled at presenting their utterly ridiculous demands in a package that looks very logical. If someone where to demand me to quit my job, I would most likely get angry and tell them to get lost, but my BPD gf would be very cunning about it (not on purpose, I guess its their subconscious defense mechanism).

She would tell me that its hard for, that she loves me very much and she is sorry for being like this, and it would make her feel safe... . She would also tell me that each demand will be the last one, and after that she will work on everything else in therapy. Arguments like this don't make her demands any less reasonable, but they play with my sense of empathy, and suppress any feelings of anger. I start to think that if I don't give in, I'm a heartless ass who doesn't care about her suffering.

That got me every time, and only now I'm starting to see that this is madness! As much as I Love her, and as much as I want her to feel safe, i can't be a marionette in the hands of a mentally ill person.

I feel for you! My H would not let me get a job at a hospital because they all have affairs there. When I was through with nursing school he let me get a job at a nursing home. I guess no one he knew worked at a nursing home and had affairs! It is exasperating to say the least.

Linlu53, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. But congratulations for breaking away from him and becoming a nurse.

get yourself away! You are no married and don't have children with her yet. I'm sure she feels u will I'm just now starting to realize what has been going on. Can't believe I still have my sanity. Leave while u still have yours!

Yes, indeed this whole thing is messing with my sense of sanity. Sometimes I feel like I'm in quicksand that will pull me in if I keep giving in. Thanks for the voice of reason Linlu!

The funny thing is that when I met my gf, she was so determined to go into medicine herself, and was so passionate about it, and then she just did a complete turn on me and attempted to prohibit me from going into my career of choice. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the sudden change; when the idealization phase ends, pwBPD seem to become different people alltogether.

yes it is normal for a pwBPD, you see the abandonment is either REAL or PERCEIVED - this is mental illness, so trying to apply rational thought will only serve to drive you crazy 

If  you want rational and sane, let her go - it is the kindest thing for each of you.

Hope that wasn't too big of a reality dose for  you - I tend to appreciate straight talk.

SB, thanks for the words of wisdom, I do appreciate straight talk, and at this point, its pretty clear that I'll never be able to appease her, no matter how hard I try.

When she says this is how she feels and she can't change that, she is telling you she is unwilling to change so take it or leave it. I realize it's a disorder, it's still insanely selfish and according to her you're just going to have to accept that you have to make all the sacrifices.

So after she has this "breakthrough" in therapy, years down the line... . you would have already sacrificed your life's direction and goals. So many problems with this scenario.

Thanks LosingIt, I really needed to hear that, and in fact I need to keep reminding myself of that. When I start to miss her, I start to feel like a jerk who didn't do enough for her, but I need to keep reminding myself that I shouldn't have to make all the sacrifices.

Murbay, and feelingcrazy, thanks for your feedback and advice! By now I have definitely seen that her demands never stop, but in her words, each demand is "the last one, and after that I'll be happy, I promise"... .

Thanks for solidifying my conjecture that giving in to the demands will not improve the situation!

Next came the fact that she "felt" like I was going to abandon her simply because my company was in another country and that it was a foot out the door. The job was no longer good enough because it wasn't a job in her country.

Damn, the madness never stops... . Thank you so much for sharing this. I'll keep telling myself that I can't be caught up in this whirlpool of giving in the the endless demands.

[KellyO]

Never ever believe a second if any person gives you demands like that. Remember always to protect your life! Person who cares about  you wants you to be happy, and would support you. I know I have supported my men in every relationship, and if they made changes in career and needed me to give them support in that, I was always telling them that they know best what is good for them and whatever they do, I will always be there to give help and support, what ever it meant (and maybe there will be a day that at least one man will give some support to me too, yet that day has not come).

I had my share of insane demands with my ex-bf, but they were not about career or work. I was such a wreck I did not have a career or work! But he had no problems to give me demands that made me think: damn that guy has audacity!

You have a long life ahead of you. Remember that. Whatever you choose now, will have conseguenses for YOU. It is not nice to look back after 10 years and realize  you took the wrong path because someone else gave you stupid demands. And that someone else might have dumped you for someone who will give her more whatever she wants at that moment.

I believe people should never do choises conserned career or job with anyone else but themselves in mind. Specially if you are not married and you have no children. It is just too important part of life.

What comes to giving her security by doing this and that... . well yeah, I tried that. Buahaha! Goalpost just keeps moving. And when he was standing next to that new goalpost he did not even remember what he had said to me earliear. So, you see, it is not rational, it is insane, and it will never end. It is not about you giving them security. They can't have security. They sabotage themselves. Nothing you can do to stop them. And if  you give your life to them, they just trash it and tell you it was a crap life anyway, so it was your fault!

[VeryFree]

My stbx would be totally upset if I got a new/better job. She would be upset if I got a good review. She would be upset if I got more money.

I never understood that and when I asked her, she told me it wasn't about me. It was about her: she wanted those things too.

Later on she said she never got upset over those things.

[Clearmind]

When I'm in the BPD whirlpool, its so easy to lose sight of yourself. pwBPD are very skilled at presenting their utterly ridiculous demands in a package that looks very logical.

Any ideas why that is the case? [that you didn;t see it when you were in it?]

If someone where to demand me to quit my job, I would most likely get angry and tell them to get lost, but my BPD gf would be very cunning about it (not on purpose, I guess its their subconscious defense mechanism).

Illustrates the incompatibility of your relationship - with each other.

I start to think that if I don't give in, I'm a heartless ass who doesn't care about her suffering.

This keeps you hooked - striving to be constantly seen as the good guy in her eyes rather than following your own moral code and needs. Any ideas where this comes from?

That got me every time, and only now I'm starting to see that this is madness! As much as I Love her, and as much as I want her to feel safe, i can't be a marionette in the hands of a mentally ill person.

No you can't that is certainly true. There is a reason why at the time you were a marionette - worth exploring.

She can do anything she wants, demand anything she wants - human right - you my friend have the choice to either appease or stick to your boundaries. Bending yourself to appease her demands says more about you than it does about the other person.

Yes, indeed this whole thing is messing with my sense of sanity. Sometimes I feel like I'm in quicksand that will pull me in if I keep giving in.

If someone was to ask "Who are you?" what would be your answer (values, boundaries, likes, dislikes, what you like in a friend/don't like)?

SB, thanks for the words of wisdom, I do appreciate straight talk, and at this point, its pretty clear that I'll never be able to appease her, no matter how hard I try.

If we knew ourselves well to begin with we wouldn't have got involved. In time you will see that you both incompatible for one another, apart from the fact she is BPD - you both tried to change one another. All this leads to is push/pull for you both as you vie for a position in the relationship. All that leads to is high conflict because neither of your needs to be met ----> resentment ---> more conflict and the cycle continues. Neither of you had the r/s skills to dig your way out. May sound harsh and I do apologize if it is - however many of us, me included, need to work on our r/s skills and way of relating to others. They blame, we retaliate - again food for thought!

This is not about her cska - this about you and your choice in relationship partner. We all learn our relationship skills from our parents - something to explore!

Damn, the madness never stops... .

It does if you change your perception of who she is... . and begin to turn the focus on you.

I'll keep telling myself that I can't be caught up in this whirlpool of giving in the the endless demands.

When you are reminded of something she did or didn't do ask yourself why you normalized it, why you were also boundary-less to an extent to not question it, why you lost yourself in the process of this r/s and why you stayed despite your confusion, frustration and conflict.

Be kind to you

[cska]

Clearmind,

I grew up with a rough father, who would always tell me that I'm nobody and that I'm selfish. He also hammered into me that I should never think about myself and live entirely for others. So now, by default, I think of myself as selfish, and if I'm pushed a little in that direction (which is what my BPD gf would do), I get a feeling of guilt and worthlessness.

Perhaps thats why I didn't leave despite the abuse I suffered at the hands of my BPD gf, and to be honest its still hard to move on.

I desperately need to change this flaw, but its really hard to change the way I feel about myself.

[KellyO]

It is not a flaw,nothing in you is a flaw. You were imprinted to think like that about yourself, but it does not make you flawed. I know how difficult it is NOT to follow that imprint, I have struggled with same thing and same thoughts. Even your concious mind knows what is going on, your subconcious will draw you to follow that imprinting. That is why your subconcious needs to be changed. And that is why you absolutely need to stay away from people who use your imprinting for their advantage. And yes, that is why she chose you, and so did my ex-bf. In the very end I got repulsed about him because I felt like I'm with my mother!

I would suggest you talk with a good therapeutist a few times. That imprint needs to be changed, and they can help you with that. You need to get free from it, because it controls you and makes decisions on your behalf, even if you think you are the one on the lead.

[Clearmind]

We are all shaped by our childhood and I agree you are not flawed. We do however pick up some faulty thinking/beliefs about ourselves based on childhood patterning.

cska, I encourage you to process these feelings around your family [you are over 50 posts now so are welcome to contribute to the Personal Inventory Board) - in time we come to a level of acceptance and begin to build our own belief system around how we want to live. Its about relinquishing some those beliefs that no longer suit us - they were prescribed as kids - not we are adults with adult privileges - we get to choose now.

Once we choose our own beliefs and dismiss the faulty beliefs we begin to build self worth and choose healthy partners because we innately believe that is what we deserve.