Do people who have BPD deserve to be happy?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey Guys.

I'm just asking this from the other perspective. I got heartbroken by my BPD ex. I still love her and forgive her but I choose its best not to have her in my life. All the advice given on this board is generally cut you losses and run for your own sanity.

I'm just for once trying to look at this for once from the BPDs point of view. All the lies, the cheating and the painting black is inexcusable. But sooner or later they will hit rock bottom and need help. What happens if they have no one left to turn to? It is an illness after all yet the advice is always to leave and not stand by them. This part of the illness i guess confuses me we understand they are sick but no one will stay and help because they are so damaging. So what are they supposed to do when they need someone for real?

[snappafcw]

Hey Guys.

I'm just asking this from the other perspective. I got heartbroken by my BPD ex. I still love her and forgive her but I choose its best not to have her in my life. All the advice given on this board is generally cut you losses and run for your own sanity.

I'm just for once trying to look at this for once from the BPDs point of view. All the lies, the cheating and the painting black is inexcusable. But sooner or later they will hit rock bottom and need help. What happens if they have no one left to turn to? It is an illness after all yet the advice is always to leave and not stand by them. This part of the illness i guess confuses me we understand they are sick but no one will stay and help because they are so damaging. So what are they supposed to do when they need someone for real?

[xenia]

I consider myself a loyal friend, and in the past I'd ask the same question you posed in this thread. But we need to take care of ourselves. If having friendships/relationships with these people is detrimental to our own well-being, we are doing ourselves a disservice and putting THEIR needs before our own. As much as it hurts to see someone you love in pain, if they are an adult, they are responsible for themselves. I think everyone deserves to be happy, and it's usually the unhappiest who need it the most (their behavior is a reflection of the way they feel inside). If a pwBPD has a therapist, he or she is NOT alone! There have been times in my life where I had friends but my therapist was the only person I could really talk to, and s/he was enough. Even better because they had the tools to steer me in a better direction. A lot of us have co-dependent tendencies and take responsibility for things that we shouldn't. The pwBPD is the only one responsible for ensuring his or her happiness. Unfortunately they don't realize this, which is why they do the same things over and over again. It's tough to watch, but we can't allow them to use us and drag us down.

[stop2think]

snappafcw,

I really feel for you. I have been trying to mend my shattered heart for 5 month now, and enduring this pain has been the most difficult thing i have ever done. Especially to see my exbf to have moved on so easily and quickly. To see the dreams i nutured for an year together with him, and see someone else living them is no less than going through hell. I know for sure he will never contact me EVER, as once 'they leave you' - you are a liability to them as you have seen through them.

No matter how much i would love to hate him, for what he put me through and to have dumped me - I simply fail to hate him.

I always believed that "all deserve to be happy", however the definition of 'happiness' means different for us and people with disorders. There is no 'one feeling' we all go through and its not a universal act to 'forgive' or 'forget' who wronged us. On similar lines i don't think we one does not hope for them 'to have a great life'. I chose to simply move in search of my own happiness and peace - and avoid thinking about him at all. I think we have our walked this terrible path and experienced varied levels of pain. I don't think i can forgive or forget what he did to me - may be not yet.

[Suzn]

So what are they supposed to do when they need someone for real?

Good question snappa. You are very right this is a mental disorder. Someone with disordered thinking rarely sees they have issues they need help with so seeing there's a for real is very difficult. In fact, a non disordered person can struggle with this issue. Emotional immaturity plays a big part in both. Blaming is a big factor. We blame them, they blame us. When we point a finger at someone, three are pointing back at us.

The truth is, taking responsibility for ones own behaviors is a tough pill to swallow. A lot of individuals walk through life with blinders on. We have a better chance in general since we can introduce more logic, we can regulate our emotions more quickly. We, eventually, can stand still long enough to feel the pain of a lost relationship and get through to the other side of that pain. A pwBPD rarely stands still long because that pain is just too overwhelming. Blaming, lashing out, addictions, etc... . are all unhealthy coping strategies and signs of emotional immaturity, however, these coping strategies are not exclusive to a pwBPD.

Recovery, for us and for a pwBPD is similar, it is the un-peeling of the layers of past hurts, grieving and coming to terms with those past hurts so that one can move into a more emotionally mature and emotionally available space. Recovery, for either, can't happen when one isn't honest with themselves, looking within at our coping strategies and becoming accountable for our own behaviors isn't easy. It's doing the hard. Once past this it can be a freeing and more peaceful life going forward. Everyone deserves that however everyone is responsible for themselves reaching this point, we can't do this for them, we can only do this for ourselves. I'm sure you have heard the phrase "put the oxygen mask on you first."

Everyone, including a pwBPD, can grow their emotional maturity. Learning healthier coping skills is a first step and that isn't always easily recognized. CBT and DBT are excellent therapies. DBT is being used for many issues today, it's not just a treatment for pwBPD anymore. It's been recognized it's helpful for anyone who struggles with regulating their emotions. 

[delusionalxox]

I think that they do.

I would like to think that I could wish happiness for my ex. He wished it to me in a very patronising final email a week ago. I can't yet wish it back because he has damaged me too much (including leaving me here pregnant... . I am not keeping the baby, but it makes it all worse, and he has failed to acknowledge any of it).

I don't want for him the narcissistic happiness of moving on immediately, having a fun glamorous life etc that it seems so many BPD do all too easily. I guess I would hope one day he can address his core wounds of anger and abandonment and the need to control and denigrate what he 'loves'. Until then any happiness he feels will be fake and fleeting.

When I can really wish him happiness from afar, I know I will be over him.  Not yet.

[bpdspell]

Hey Guys.

I'm just asking this from the other perspective. I got heartbroken by my BPD ex. I still love her and forgive her but I choose its best not to have her in my life. All the advice given on this board is generally cut you losses and run for your own sanity.

I'm just for once trying to look at this for once from the BPDs point of view. All the lies, the cheating and the painting black is inexcusable. But sooner or later they will hit rock bottom and need help. What happens if they have no one left to turn to? It is an illness after all yet the advice is always to leave and not stand by them. This part of the illness i guess confuses me we understand they are sick but no one will stay and help because they are so damaging. So what are they supposed to do when they need someone for real?

Yes. Everyone deserves to be happy but we are not born to become enablers or to take personal responsibility for the lives of others or to hold ourselves accountable for other people's behaviors. In a BPD relationship we do just that on an extreme level. And it's a lopsided parasitical exchange that leaves us depleted and running on fumes.

I have deep compassion for my ex but enabling him only crippled him and further allowed him to placate blame on me when my love or the things that I tried to fix blew up in my face. He honestly believed that it was my JOB to work at making him happy because it was his dream to find a replacement parent in an intimate partner.  I was the crutch, the way maker, Mrs. Fix it, the person who kissed it and made it better... . but in the end he only resented me for doing what he on some level intuitively knows he should be doing for himself.

We are all adults and we all have choices. With those choices come consequences. And we need to let them experience the negative consequences of their unacceptable behavior because it is not our job to save them.

Happiness is a choice and it has to be earned. And yes they can earn it with a desire to heal. But if they want to get better they will have to make that choice. Unfortunately many of them will choose the easy way of blaming rather than looking in the mirror. Facing shame is quite painful for them so being happy will forever remain elusive.

[xenia]

I think that they do.

I would like to think that I could wish happiness for my ex. He wished it to me in a very patronising final email a week ago. I can't yet wish it back because he has damaged me too much (including leaving me here pregnant... . I am not keeping the baby, but it makes it all worse, and he has failed to acknowledge any of it).

I don't want for him the narcissistic happiness of moving on immediately, having a fun glamorous life etc that it seems so many BPD do all too easily. I guess I would hope one day he can address his core wounds of anger and abandonment and the need to control and denigrate what he 'loves'. Until then any happiness he feels will be fake and fleeting.

When I can really wish him happiness from afar, I know I will be over him.  Not yet.

I love your post. You're showing lots of grace in the face of difficulty. Sending positive thoughts your way and wishing you the best. 

[snappafcw]

I know you have heard it all before. But although I still feel pain I forgive her despite the lies... . cheating... . lack of respect. I do know she is no good for me and I have been dealing with my own issues so this situation has only made me stronger. But what fills my heart full of sadness is knowing that she wont get better. i tried to ask her to get help while we were still together and she said "thats whats pushing me away i know how to handle this i can just forget about it all but you keep reminding me"

No one can get help unless they want to help themselves. Ive been minding my own business but mutual friends keep trying to give me updates. I tell them id rather not know it effects my healing but what i do know is she has lost her best friend of many years and no one wants to be around her anymore. It shouldn't be my problem anymore... . it isn't I just hate that she wont get help for herself and she is a human wrecking ball. I know her and the people around her deserve better.

[delusionalxox]

Oh Xenia thanks :D

I can tell you I don't feel very gracious most of the time. More trapped in rage and hate. But I am trying to look for the way out and it will be compassion.

Just as an example I have developed a horrible compulsive texting habit this last week blurting out all my rage and pain to him. I know he knows about the abortion as the message on FB was 'read' (I've since blocked him!) but nothing. He would claim I am too crazy and too much of a psycho- although he always dealt out a huge amount of abuse himself, he could not ever acknowledge it.

unfortunately I think BPD people can lure us in with compassion. I saw this terribly sad little boy sometimes just raging at being abandoned. His mother left him when he was 5, suddenly- and he only saw her every 4 months. Longing for her, he went back to live with her at age 10 in another city, but after that his father limited contact with him to a 5 minute phone call every month 'to save money'! He must have felt so awful. Abandoned by them both at different times. He is now fiercely defensive of them both.

he doesn't seem to suffer depression but all his rage and fear at being abandoned and unimportant are so strong that they motivate much of his life in ways he just cannot see. He is narcissistic too in a deeply insecure way. Always felt I did not admire him and his academic work enough. He wanted total unconditional 'holding' and no one can give him that. none of his exes did either, they did not set boundaries like I did, but they all left him in the end.

I wanted to help him so much. He would get so upset early on when I would leave him in despair at his demands and complaints that he would dissociate. I couldn't help him and I never could have. It was also a delusion about myself.

I wish I had not been the one to meet him and get enmeshed with him, I was so vulnerable myself and the pain is so awful I have been suicidal, and probably will be again. I know he has painted me black as a total 'psycho' too and his family, friends, and new partner if he has one yet will feel terribly sorry for him for suffering me. (He called me crazy and psycho many times as I suffer from depression and mood swings).

Eh well as I said I hope one day I can wish him happiness. True and not fake happiness. I don't think on current evidence he will find it, but there is always time to change.

Weirdly (BPD projection?) this is the last thing he said to me. 'I really wish you to find serenity in your life without  me... . even in the last moment of life it is possible to change' (the enlightened priestly tone is very typical :D) I hope that is true for him and that he realises that he too needs to change. I've accepted that I do too but in the way that is truly right for me and I am not there yet.

[delusionalxox]

BPDspell I love what you have written here, it sums up where I would like to get to:

I have deep compassion for my ex but enabling him only crippled him and further allowed him to placate blame on me when my love or the things that I tried to fix blew up in my face. He honestly believed that it was my JOB to work at making him happy because it was his dream to find a replacement parent in an intimate partner.  I was the crutch, the way maker, Mrs. Fix it, the person who kissed it and made it better... . but in the end he only resented me for doing what he on some level intuitively knows he should be doing for himself.

We are all adults and we all have choices. With those choices come consequences. And we need to let them experience the negative consequences of their unacceptable behavior because it is not our job to save them.

Happiness is a choice and it has to be earned. And yes they can earn it with a desire to heal. But if they want to get better they will have to make that choice. Unfortunately many of them will choose the easy way of blaming rather than looking in the mirror. Facing shame is quite painful for them so being happy will forever remain elusive.

[Clearmind]

Do people who have BPD deserve to be happy? I once cared for this person so yes I believe he deserves to be happy. How he achieves that is up to him now.

When we detach, fully and relinquish our own shame and blame we exercise kindness and compassion towards our partners and only wish them best - we drop the need to exact revenge (in which ever form that may come).

Our ex's are no longer our responsibility - this includes for their happiness.

[slimmiller]

Do our exes deserve happiness? Yes and no. Yes because they are human and all humans deserve happiness with a 'pre-requisite' They have to earn it and feel that they deserve it. And no, not untill she makes things right by me and others, especially my children, and allows and seeks forgivness

So yes I do wish my exBPD happiness but as BPDspell pointed out, helping them is not helping them. I am firmly convinced, the only way I could ever 'help' mine is to watch her continue to spiral down into the oblivious deep empty she seems to have sentenced herself to. Anything else (which is what I did in the past) would only continue to enable her.

Its kind of like that person that feeds wild animals out of the goodness of their heart when in fact the animal is becoming depended on them instead so they are really doing them an injustice

[snappafcw]

I like that analogy Slimmiller thank you God bless to everyone as well I hope your own personal situations get better. I was definitely feeling a little weak this week after my Ex reached out after 3 months of No Contact. I didn't feed into her ego but deep down lots of emotions have come back and I have also refused to go on dates with other ladies because I still feel a little broken even though I have done a lot of healing and self discovery. I am starting to get very impatient with how long the whole healing process is taking it doesn't seem fair!

[fromheeltoheal]

Adults are responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions.  BPDs have a personality disorder that causes them to leave a trail of wreckage and hurt; the 'correct' way to handle that here on planet earth is to fix what you broke.  Sure, there are hurts in romantic relationships, but there are ways to navigate through them with integrity, which doesn't include lying, manipulation, abuse, and deception.

So does a BPD 'deserve' to be happy?  My BPD ex is happy in very infrequent spurts, with doom and gloom between, so whether she deserves it or not, she's not yet capable.  If a BPD gets treatment, starts learning to self soothe, starts communicating openly and honestly in relationships, starts fixing the wreckage of their past as best they can, and showing up with integrity, then maybe, just maybe, they can start having extended episodes of happiness and contentment.

Do they, or we, deserve to be happy?  We deserve what we work hard for and don't sabotage with a lack of integrity.

[Murbay]

I'm in complete agreement with slimmiller and heel2heal on this one but it is a very interesting question.

Personally, I would love to see my ex happy for the simple reason her moods affect the children, especially the eldest who seems to experience those moods more than anyone and can't understand why. She is only 7 though.

However, in order for it to be deserved it has to be earned and to do that, those destructive elements need to worked through. If someone steps forward and wants to work through them in order to be happy, they have definitely earned that right.

If, like my ex, they expect to sit back and someone to come along to make them happy without putting the effort in themselves, projecting all their bad behaviours and feelings on to the other person. Expecting them to do all the hard work to make them happy, then I don't think they have earned the right to deserve it.

Its tough, because it is a disorder but as heeltoheal said, they are adults and when you know something is broken, you fix it. In the case of my ex, she was fully aware she had abandonment issues but made it my responsibility to suppress those issues so she felt better. She wanted no responsibility for her own issues.

Of course I still want to see her happy, its not likely she ever will be but until she learns to accept responsibility, it is no longer my issue to carry for her.

[mcc503764]

I like that analogy Slimmiller thank you God bless to everyone as well I hope your own personal situations get better. I was definitely feeling a little weak this week after my Ex reached out after 3 months of No Contact. I didn't feed into her ego but deep down lots of emotions have come back and I have also refused to go on dates with other ladies because I still feel a little broken even though I have done a lot of healing and self discovery. I am starting to get very impatient with how long the whole healing process is taking it doesn't seem fair!

What I have learned is that this healing process takes time.  There is NO timetable.  Every individual is different.  I guess for me, I couldn't think about trying to seriously "date" another person so quickly because I wasn't in the place to do so.  Our x's on the other hand, don't care about another person's emotions, and are incapable of thinking this way.  Kinda blows my mind, but this is the pain avoidance pattern that they have done their entire life, so it's not as if they are going to change now... . why would they have to?  I guess this is the part where you see the BPD in action.  They transfer feelings to avoid anytype of pain... . same game, different players.  This is all they know.  

If I look at her patterns, this is all she has done throughout her entire life.  Pain avoidance, transfer her feelings from one to another.  Never alone for very long because the pain is too intense for them to deal with.  This is their maladaptive coping mechanism.  I guess it kinda makes sense to me.  This is where I had to learn not to take this so personal by saying "what's wrong with me?"  

When the time is right, I will truly move on.  I guess it's kinda like when the family dog dies.  Everyone is so distraught, so what do the parents do?  They go out and buy a new puppy to replace the lost loved one... . Same principle I guess... .

Thoughts?

MCC