the path out of codependency

[doubleAries]

The path out of codependency is frustratingly long to me, but worth the effort.

While I do have several interpersonal examples, this one--more general--is striking to me:

I own an international wholesale business. I don't advertise, have a website, or any of the other usual methods of gaining customers. For the past 17 years, I have done 2 specific trade shows per year, and this is where all my business comes from (and the resulting mail order). It keeps me busier than I can keep up with.

For the past few years, I have found preparation for these 2 shows very stressful. I am swamped with orders and filled with anxiety about how not only am I not building my stock for the show, but depleting it rapidly on the pre-show orders. I picture myself arriving at the (very expensive) show with nothing but catalogs--maybe--if those get printed in time. I have 4 employees who always seem to disappear when the pressure is on. I have to pay very far in advance for my booth at these shows, at a time when I can't predict what will be happening at the time the show actually comes around. For the past few years, I have considered not doing the shows, reasoning that I'm already pretty busy anyway.

A couple/few weeks ago, I had one of those  2x4 to the head eureka moments: This is the EXACT opposite direction I need to go, the EXACT wrong thinking/reasoning. What I am basically saying to myself is "my employees are undependable and irresponsible, so I need to scale back my business in order to accommodate them". 

If I needed "a sign", some kind of proof that I was finally seeing the light, I had a week long wild fire academy class (volunteer fire dept) at the beginning of the month (and I have a show coming up in a few days). I lined out all my employees with what I wanted them to do while I was gone. I was explicit about what needed to be done so there were no miscommunications. I patiently answered all questions to make sure all went smoothly. Then I went to my class. Employee # 1 didn't bother to show up for work at all for 7 days--opting instead to stay home and play video games in his pajamas for an entire week. Employee # 2 doesn't play video games but also didn't show up at all the entire week.

Absolutely NOTHING got done while I was gone. Employee # 1 is a 19 year old loser. I have done more for him than anyone else ever has in his entire life--gave him a place to go when his drunken/pot head mother left him at home alone to fend for himself while she caroused all night, taught him to drive, sold him a truck for a screaming deal (so I wouldn't have to pick him up and take him home every day), helped him get his license, insurance, registration, etc, found him a free place to live at one of my friends where all he had to do was water the trees and irrigate the yard for 15 hours per month (didn't even have to cut the lawn--someone else was doing that) and gave him a full time job. His excuses for not showing up were insulting (one day he said simply that his clock had stopped. Well, duh! If your clock stops working, what else are you going to do? Obviously showing up for work is out of the question!  ) Finally after my class was over and he still hadn't shown up, I went over to the house I got for him to live in for free, and knocked on the door--at 5pm. He came to the door in his pajamas, reeking of pot, and acted very surprised to see me. Claimed he had been working hard in the sun all day and had come in for a break. He was in his pajamas for crying out loud, and I could see the video game console on in the living room. I could also see that he hadn't actually done ANY of the yard watering/irrigating for the entire month he'd lived there--the grass was dead and all the trees were wilted. He told me he was working like a dog on all the landscaping and that's why he hadn't come to work. He lied to my friend and told her that I was working him like a dog and that was why he couldn't get the watering done. I fired him. The next day, he shows up at work, crying, where I am training his replacement. Snivels that everything he says is seen as an excuse, and how that "hurts his feelings" 

I go to employee # 2's house to see why she hasn't bothered to do a single thing. She sits acting sympathetic with me about employee # 1's laziness. I point out "yeah, but you are even more unreliable than he is, and you also didn't bother to show up to work at all or do ANYTHING AT ALL while I was gone. She glares at me as if I'm personally attacking her unjustly. I'll be training HER replacement when I get back from my show.

My, how different all this looks to me right now. Not that I didn't notice these people were manipulative users (claiming to need a hand-up, but actually looking for a hand-out), but just my goofball premise that I can't change them, I can only change myself, so therefore there is nothing I can do about it, maybe I need to cut back on the shows!

Somehow, in spite of this lunacy, I have managed to build a quarter million a year in gross sales business. How, I don't know (what with this kind of backwards thinking on my part) now I am finding what I already knew--there are a lot of dependable people out there looking for jobs, who are grateful to find one.

Better late than never, I guess... .

And I see more clearly how codependency effects ALL corners of my life, not just intimate relationships.

[atcrossroads]

You rock, DoubleAries!  Reading your post was incredibly inspiring.  I was cheering for you all the way.  Way to go!   

[Cumulus]

Amazing. How did you feel letting them go? Any guilt, sadness? Or did you feel justified and happy, or everything all together?

[cult]

You are so right and it's wonderful that you had such an epiphany. I had one myself today. I went through some posts I made to another board in April 2010 and guess what... . I was saying many of the same things then that I am saying now! It was really sobering to read my own words and to recognize them for what they are, truths I was unwilling to see. My partner has had no identity of her own since she lost her job and in my codependence I tried to fix and save her. Basically, to be blunt, I tried to buy her back, literally, by paying for everything. I thought leaving my mother's home (where we lived for 6 years) and getting our own place would magically solve all of our problems. Wow, what a wake up call this is as I look back.  Moving solved nothing - in fact things are worse now than they were then.

I really don't think my spouse has BPD (though I could be wrong) but re-reading my old posts, I think I have a clearer perspective that in April 2010, she stopped mirroring me and began mirroring her FOO. Flash forward three years, she's now molded herself in the image of her FOO almost completely. There's more to it than that alone, of course, but I am coming to believe that the all-encompassing, safe, warm, protected feeling I experienced from her was more than just unconditional love, it was mirroring. Which is disordered, and not real.

Wow, just wow. Thank you Aries for your post and reminding me that the first step out of codependency is truth.

[doubleAries]

THANKS ALL!

Lazy loser employee #1 sneaked out of the house I got him in the middle of the night and moved back to his moms house (without even asking her OR telling anybody else he sneaked off) so he wouldn't have to do the incredibly difficult job of watering the lawn. He left my friend in a bind because she didn't know she needed to find someone else to do the watering (and she's only in state right now because her mom had a heart attack). And made me look like an idiot for referring him in the first place, saying what a "good kid" he is.

Employee #2 is 45 years old. Every day is a new emergency with her--her phone is getting cut off, the electric is getting cut off, the cable bill is due, her aunt's gas is getting cut off. She has no clue at all how to budget and has expected me to accommodate this (she wants to get paid every day that she bothers to work, sometimes twice a day). And I have done it. Then she decided she wanted to work at home--and wanted me to deliver her work supplies to her at her convenience. And I did it. She ignores the reality of pending bills and won't work, and then wants me to be part of her emergency. So when she does actually work, it's sporadic at best. And I've resentfully went along with it.

Employee #3 basically let himself go. He's the brother of employee #1. His girlfriend is pregnant so now he's too busy to work. Never mind that he's 5 months behind on his rent. Never mind that he has a (another) baby on the way next month. He rants and raves relentlessly about the greedy rich exploiters of the workers. He just slowed his work pace down to a crawl until eventually he hasn't bothered to show up at all for the past 6 months. But still claims to work for me. And uses me as a reference when he wants to buy crap he isn't going to pay for on credit (he shouldn't have to pay for what he wants to buy, right? That's greed on the part of the credit issuer!)

What's difficult here is that I didn't see something I never saw before. I've seen it all along. I just didn't know what to do about it. I'm given to thinking I'm being too hard on the parasites attached to my neck, bleeding me dry. Thinking my anger is unacceptable (instead of proof that maybe I care a tiny bit about myself and how I'm treated).

IT ALL COMES BACK TO BOUNDARIES. Again and again and again.

I didn't feel very bad at all letting this go. It's all part of a bigger picture of  moments for me right now. Any day now, my divorce will be final. I spent 18 years with a husband diagnosed bipolar 1 with psychotic features, ASPD and NPD. These crappy employees looked like angels compared to dealing with him. He moved into my life and usurped it. I couldn't get him to leave--I was trapped with no escape route imaginable. Or so I thought. Finally, I gave up my "forever home" (which was paid off and mine before I ever even met him, his name was never on it) because he wouldn't leave. He wasn't attached to me--he was attached to my stuff. So I left and ended up buying a home last month I never would have even dreamed of owning.

These kind of patterns aren't conscious. Consciously, I want a decent life, with decent friends, decent interactions with people. But Unconsciously, I am drawn to the abusiveness I grew up with (my mom was a horrific sadistic witch BPD, my father was a waify alcoholic groper/fondler). Just wanting better patterns isn't enough. It takes practice, vigilance, and determination to see for real what I already see but don't want to (being caught up in self doubts allows me to not take action to extract myself and start practicing new patterns of healthy interactions).

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it all yet. I wasn't allowed to have emotions as a kid--it was incredibly dangerous. I react to emotions I'm not really aware I'm having. And an inner voice I don't listen to consciously, but pay very close attention to unconsciously--a voice (that sounds suspiciously like my mothers) that says I DON'T DESERVE. I don't deserve happiness, I don't deserve love, I don't deserve anything good. I have to grovel and earn small tokens of gratitude by fixing, helping, sacrificing, accommodating.

I once told my T that I figured I must be filled with self loathing--I don't really connect with that feeling, but there is no other explanation. He said "no, I don't see that in you. You aren't important enough for self loathing." I sat there with my mouth hanging open until I understood what he was trying to say. Self apathy--not self loathing. I don't even deserve loathing.

That's changing now. Thanks to my friends here on bpdfamily.com's, thanks to my T, and thanks to my determination to pull myself up by the bootstraps. 

[KellyO]

Wonderful story! By the way, I'm double Aries too (sun and moon), add ascendant in Leo 

I red about Buddhist Nun (can't remember book or names), who was all about compassion. But, then she said there is something she called "Fools compassion", which should be avoided. Fools compassion is something where you get used by people who don't want to help themselves (too much trouble), and where you actually don't help at all. Most compassionate thing to do is to leave those people to learn to take care of themselves, because helping them does nothing good.

I've seen people actually laughing to those helping them, at my work place. Mostly men talking how easy it is to fool women to do their jobs. Murder was not far from my mind at that moment.

[doubleAries]

(sun, moon, mercury and venus in Aries, Libra rising  )

Somewhere along the way, I seem to attract really dysfunctional people into my life. I easily convince myself that these people represent "the real world" and that it is ME that doesn't fit in, and that my noticing their extreme dysfunction is actually some form of narcissism on my part--I'm obviously not compassionate, tolerant, empathetic or understanding enough. Yep, in fact, I now owe them something for thinking such selfish and narcissistic things about them. Everybody deserves a chance and I'm some kind of snob, and I struggle to overcome my snobbery. I become focused on this, and guilty, guilty, guilty. The focus on my guilt allows me to overlook/tolerate rude and abusive behavior (I deserve it anyway--after the selfish, snobby noticing of their dysfunction, I deserve to be "put in my place".

So I "help" people that never asked to be helped but come to gleefully rely on it, constantly berating myself for not being able to interact in a healthy manner (with decidedly unhealthy people--clearly MY FAULT!). It takes me a LONG time to finally notice that I'm not helping--I'm enabling. When I finally do see it, I chastise myself some more and buckle down to do a better job---meaning to become a better enabler. Because I don't really know what healthy interaction is.

When I have these realizations, I go with them--all excited--to the very people I should NOT be trusting. Who either act bored, like this is not the fabulous insight I thought it was (enter circular self doubt) or convince me I have it all wrong, I really am not being empathetic enough.

Again, it keeps coming back--over and over--to BOUNDARIES. I try hard to respect the boundaries of others, but don't have any of my own. And don't believe I deserve them, because they feel narcissistic and selfish.

Aye-Yi-Yi. I've come a long ways but clearly have a long ways to go... .

[Grey Kitty]

I gotta say I'm impressed with the definitive way you are doing things now that you have had a chance to look at the situation clearly.  

Here's an interesting observation for you: A company takes on a personality from its founder. I've had the (unfortunate!) experience of doing some work at Microsoft. That place is amazingly dysfunctional. Astoundingly so. And I think it is the kind of thing that Bill Gates managed to create and attract.

You have seen what you were creating in your company. With only four employees, two of which will be replacements for the ineffective ones... . and #3 sounds like he may be next, you have a real opportunity to change the mood and create something much better. Some companies do embody things like trust and respect. What sort of personality do you want your company to have now?

I once told my T that I figured I must be filled with self loathing--I don't really connect with that feeling, but there is no other explanation. He said "no, I don't see that in you. You aren't important enough for self loathing." I sat there with my mouth hanging open until I understood what he was trying to say. Self apathy--not self loathing. I don't even deserve loathing.

Wow. That is pretty amazing. And if you find some good resources for dealing with self apathy, please point them my way--I was blessed with a mostly functional FOO, and don't have the self-loathing either... . but I do feel like something is missing inside me, and that could be self apathy.

[cult]

Double Aries, I am right there with you. I am a Libra (Libra/Scorpio cusp actually) with Sagittarius rising, so I enjoy the astrology link!

Like you I am realizing boundaries are my biggest issue. If I could only own them - honor them - value them - then maybe I could actually enforce them... .

[doubleAries]

Here is something I found on this website, that I cut and pasted, sent to myself, and keep in my inbox. I am trying to absorb this.

Think About It... . Defending our boundaries is more than a response in times of conflict - it's a lifestyle. Learn how to get in touch with your values, define and communicate boundaries of those values, and defend against boundary busters. ~ Skip

Thanks, Grey Kitty--you make an excellent point. Employee #3 pretty much fired himself 6 months ago. I've been limping along, scrambling to keep up, telling myself I "need" these people, because they are already trained, and hoping if I am empathetic (enabling) enough, they will be inspired and step up to the plate. 

I am working weekly with my T on the self apathy issue. He keeps insisting I need to focus on re-parenting myself. I find this concept extremely corny (and maybe narcissistic? I'm always worried about being narcissistic, like my father. For years I've been worried sick about being like my mom or dad--the real problem, though, has been being like myself. A self doubting, codependent, groveling, passive/aggressive, writhing mass of protoplasm. THAT'S what I need to deal with, instead of scrutinizing myself for behavior even faintly like that of my twisted parents).

[KellyO]

Venus in Aries too. And here I have always thought I must be only person unlucky enough to get the whole chart filled with Aries and Leo and nothing to balance it. Oh yeah, I have Pisces in Midheaven, so at age 44 I still have no clue about what to do for living. I try to take this with humour... .

Re-Parenting yourself might sound corny, but it is not. I did it, by myself, all alone. I was sure I will die from all that agony, but I did not. I wish I could recommend you the book I used, but it is only available in my own language. Anyways, guy who wrote it writes about his own experiences when healing from codependency AND some BPD-traits. It was my guide, because he tells what can be expected. So, when I dissosiated for three days after finally forgiving my parents (at that point it came naturally and I just did it without any planning or anything), I was not (too much) scared and I did not call ambulance to take me to mental istitute. I knew I will make it through, because he had made it. It was mostly inner-child work and finally facing all the PAIN and emotions I had been running away for 40 years. I literally sat with pain. I was 4, I was 5, I was 15 years old. I wrote and wrote and wrote. It is all about allowing yourself to re-live those painful moments form your childhood when you had to swallow your tears and no one was there for  you. It is the only way out of that pain, I'm afraid. Re-living those moments will set them free, and you can tell yourself you did nothing wrong then, it was never your fault, and comfort yourself. For me it was very scary to give up the control I had about myself, to cry and shake and even vomit if it came to that.

You have a T, so you don't have to do this the hard way, you have someone to have your back, so to speak. Less frightening. And I will tell you, dealing with life-long pain is frightening. In the end you come out as a new person, and it is so much worth it! I got my emotions back. I literally had no emotions, I had buried them deep down. I was numb. It is wonderful to be able to feel! And yes, I'm thankful that I met my ex-bf, going through BPD-hell was one big factor in tearing me out from my numbness. I'm sure he was meant to come to my life at that point. I'm sure his job is done. I hope he will meet someone who makes him face himself too. I could not do it, and I'm sure it all went as it should.

Other expert in codependency in my country said that codependent people have trust-issues, yes, but they are also unbelievably blind to the fact that some people simply cannot be trusted. So, we don't trust others, and when we try to trust, we put our trust to people who are not worthy of any trust, people who cheat and lie and misuse any trust they get. This was something I definitely could see in myself. I have always been paranoid about people trying to use me and cheat on me, and guess what, so they did, because I always chose people who would do it!

ps. I don't say you should forgive your parents. I did, but when I came that far I realized there is nothing to forgive. I still have nothing to do with my mother, and I intend to keep it that way. I'm so much better without her in  my life.

[Murbay]

You certainly nailed it there DoubleAries in as far as it does affect all areas of your life. If you aren't assertive at home because that is your nature, then the same applies at work. Likewise, if you allow your boundaries to drop in personal experiences, you tend to find people will do that in professional life too.

I came to a similar conclusion not too long ago, that I actually have friends out there who stampede through my boundaries because I let them. I also have friends that out of respect knew the door was open in that regard but don't overstep the boundary.

I think your solution for your employees is perfect. We often get caught up on thinking about how getting rid of someone affects them and not seeing how their blatant disregard for our boundaries affects us. At the end of the day, it isn't entirely their fault, it is ours for not being assertive enough but you have definitely found the right approach for what needs to be done. It's your business and you are leading by example. The next people who come in, will know where the boundaries are and as long as you stay firm, you will have a highly productive workforce in no time 

[Grey Kitty]

doubleAries, think about how well things can go with reliable people trained in your business!

KellyO, I'm glad to hear that inner child / re-parenting work does do it for you. I've seen a few books/programs to work through it for myself, and just never felt like it was right for me. Corny? Probably part of my issue with it, I dunno. Personally I don't connect well with visualization exercises. Maybe another year it will seem right for me.

Time for me to get back to my mindfulness mediation practice. As my teacher once said, you find everything you need in the present moment. If you need to go back and cry over what happened when you were five years old badly enough, it will come up in your meditation right now.

[KellyO]

GreyKitty, I have studied mindfullness too and it never was right thing for me... . this is why I always think people should find their own path. What is good for one person is not for other, we simply are all different. It is a process.I think it is very important to validate for yourself what you can accept and work with, because you are the person working with it. My mind was already trained in visualization. But there is something in mindfullness that only makes me angry and frustrated and restless. I understand the meaning of it, but it does not work for me.

Good thing about inner-child work is that when it is done it is DONE. It will end. When you are over it you are OVER. It is not something you will do the rest of your days.

[heartandwhole]

Holy Moly!  I'd like to cut and paste this whole thread to my forehead! 

Wow, doubleAries, your post spoke so deeply to me.  I got so excited about your revelations, and I really admire what you did with them.  Fantastic.  Lots of great stuff from other posters, as well.

I think I may have the self-apathy thing, too.  I was writing on another thread that I just don't seem to pay attention to what I need emotionally, like I just ignore myself.  I also love what you wrote about boundaries.  I think they are K.E.Y.

Thanks so much for sharing, it helps more than you know 

[KellyO]

To my great surprise I found the material that was crucial for me, to be in internet in English. Someone was asking for it, and I searched, and voila!

So, if someone would want to find out more about what this wonderful person has to say, here it is:

www.healingeagle.net/

He writes anonymously, because he is just an ordinary guy and works in IT-business, I think. Or something to do with technology anyway. This all is published as a book in my country, but the English text is actually original. He started to write his journal through healing in English first.

I owe my sanity to this person, I really do.

I was very much addicted, but did not know it because I was not alcoholic, I was not sexaddict, I was not gambler. My addictions were "more acceptable" and civilized. Codepencancy is really the mother of all addictions.

[doubleAries]

I'm now immersed in my trade show, all. Please keep the conversation going! It's so helpful to hear what others have to say here too!

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all.

I haven't done so well at this lately. Have been in a funk for a week, and really dragged myself through the necessities, (work). Today I am feeling a little better, so am not going to sit at my computer all day and achieve nothing else but focusing on my ex-BP and the pain. Writing, reading and all.

This time, BP has been the one to do the NC thing, (for the first time ever, properly), has blocked my number, did not read an email I sent after last Sunday, when he dumped me yet again. Ironically, he had expected me to just go back up there and act like nothing had happened after he had assaulted me the week before. He may well even be launching a smear campaign through a VRO, given where his Mother told me he had gone on Wednesday morning, (I felt that was possibly her lying and being spiteful again).

I know, why did I even bother to ring her? It wasn't actually an intention to speak with BP, and I did not ask to, I really wanted to say Goodbye to her, as she had encouraged me to look to her for support with her BP son, and I to her the same, when it was necessary to listen to their dramas with him, or step in as a mediator between their conflicts with him.

Some of which were incredibly dramatic and dangerous, psychotic episodes have happened around every 4 months for the whole time I have known him.

I think I have teetered on the edge of codependency, not quite fully there, (as his parents are) but not quite out either.

As for self love, well, there are lots of things I have always known I needed to improve, but hey, it's a work in progress, and I feel OK in general about where I am in life right now, and what I have achieved lately, (all whilst being involved with full time BP).

Although I know I could have achieved much more, and financially, God, when I sit down and figure that out, I know I will be shocked at the amount I spent trying to keep our relationship going, (whilst he complained continually and kept applying maximum pressure).

I am glad I did not meet his last demand, that I give up my very comfortable house, with my lovely family, and go provide him and I with our own place, so he can have a roof over his head, and be with me, (where he should be). What about working and helping provide it yourself then I might be able to trust in you!

As far as love goes?

That is the real heartbreaker for me, I feel like I have just suffered three years of unrequitted love with my BP, (and in fact I have).

Three years of being dumped every week. I guess I thought that because I wasn't stifling the pain, that it may not be as bad when it was finally all over since I had been having to work through the same emotions constantly anyway.

I knew my part in my past relationships not working out, but I do not take responsibility for cheaters, or drug addicts, I tried to improve myself, and live up to my part of the bargain, the mistake I made was trying to fight for my own rights with words. Especially when I had spelt out my very clear boundaries at the start of every relationship, and just got manipulated lied to and control freaked.

So, I moved on, and tried not to get 'duped' again.

Silly me did it again.

If only I had known then, what I know now, there may well have been at least one or two that may have worked out, (but only because I had to do all the work!)

Thanks all, this is great therapy... .

[Zena321]

I am learning more and more on these threads thank you to all.

On a different note doubleAries I would love to have the astrology link you sent to our other poster

I like that stuff greatly and looking at different aspects of Astrology I'd appreciate it. If you can't post here please message it to me Thank You.