My first physical time out- please tell me I did the right thing

[Depression = 72% of members]

Yesterday, uBPDh got really angry due to a small issue.  We have to get a new phone number, he hands me a list of 3 and asked me which one I liked best.  I'm really insensitive with numbers, so I looked at them and said "I don't really have an opinion."  He then tried using other words like "see which one feels special to you", "which number speaks to you the best", but I didn't have any opinion and didn't pick anything.  He then got mad and told me just to pick anything, so I picked the first.  Then he was mad because he claimed "I have already told you so many times, don't habitually say no to me!"  I told him I honestly had no opinion, he didn't "buy" my reason, and I said it's ok whether he believes it or not. 

Then he got really mad and said either he leaves the home, or I do.  I said "then you can leave, I have no intention of leaving".  He didn't leave, and instead told me if I don't leave he will hit me (he has before, once, and afterwards he had agreed that it was incorrect to use physical violence and initiated that "if next time I want to do this I will first leave".  I still said I will stay, but then he added "if you're staying, this means you invite me to hit you and you agree to being hit."  So I turned 180 degrees, took my bags and keys, and left.   I stayed over at someone's place (my C’s family place)- in the middle of the night.

It has been 10 hours since it happened.  He called me a few times, I didn't pick up.  He texted me wanting to know where I am, calling me prideful and saying it isn’t right not to tell my husband where I was.  I just told him I was at a place where I was physically safe from harm, and I will never, ever tell him where I went because (1) he doesn’t know I have been meeting with C, she’s my lifeline, and (2) it’s none of his business.  He told me to leave (or else get hit).  I have texted him and said I am safe, and I am going to work.

Please tell me whether I was right in leaving (I’ve never done it before, and thankfully this time it was him who told me to leave, otherwise I never would have left too), and whether it is wise not to let him know even remotely where I have been (I didn’t even say I stayed at a friend’s place or what).

[Chosen]

Yesterday, uBPDh got really angry due to a small issue.  We have to get a new phone number, he hands me a list of 3 and asked me which one I liked best.  I'm really insensitive with numbers, so I looked at them and said "I don't really have an opinion."  He then tried using other words like "see which one feels special to you", "which number speaks to you the best", but I didn't have any opinion and didn't pick anything.  He then got mad and told me just to pick anything, so I picked the first.  Then he was mad because he claimed "I have already told you so many times, don't habitually say no to me!"  I told him I honestly had no opinion, he didn't "buy" my reason, and I said it's ok whether he believes it or not. 

Then he got really mad and said either he leaves the home, or I do.  I said "then you can leave, I have no intention of leaving".  He didn't leave, and instead told me if I don't leave he will hit me (he has before, once, and afterwards he had agreed that it was incorrect to use physical violence and initiated that "if next time I want to do this I will first leave".  I still said I will stay, but then he added "if you're staying, this means you invite me to hit you and you agree to being hit."  So I turned 180 degrees, took my bags and keys, and left.   I stayed over at someone's place (my C’s family place)- in the middle of the night.

It has been 10 hours since it happened.  He called me a few times, I didn't pick up.  He texted me wanting to know where I am, calling me prideful and saying it isn’t right not to tell my husband where I was.  I just told him I was at a place where I was physically safe from harm, and I will never, ever tell him where I went because (1) he doesn’t know I have been meeting with C, she’s my lifeline, and (2) it’s none of his business.  He told me to leave (or else get hit).  I have texted him and said I am safe, and I am going to work.

Please tell me whether I was right in leaving (I’ve never done it before, and thankfully this time it was him who told me to leave, otherwise I never would have left too), and whether it is wise not to let him know even remotely where I have been (I didn’t even say I stayed at a friend’s place or what).

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Mcgddss]

You were so right to leave - and I wouldn't tell him where you went.

No adult has the right to hit another adult. 

My uBPDh doesn't leave the house - ever.  So I am the one who goes out for a walk.

When he begins to "rage" I now remove myself from our children and tell him if he wants to talk I will be in a certain room and I wait.

When he dissociates his eyes widen (don't know if this if for everyone, but it is really obvious for him.)  I now know that there is no talking to him in that state.  I tell him that I need a break and I will be out for 20 minutes.  From what I read on the boards/in the books, they need to hear that you will be back. 

Things are SLOWLY getting better by following "the lessons."  I just realized something has been wrong a year ago.  I have decided to give it one year and if he is not significantly improved I will leave our marriage.  During this year I am committeed to doing the steps.

Make sure you read the "Safety First" section if you haven't yet.

Best of luck.

[Chosen]

The problem is, hours after this, he is still texting me to try and shift the blame on me.  And he even said that "the fact is: I didn't even touch you."  As if threatening to hit me is ok as long as he doesn't actually do it (no reason to believe he won't.  And if I stayed and continued the discussion he probably would have).  I texted him back to say I do not respond to threats, no matter what the discussion was, and if I feel that the environment is threatening I will leave until it is safe. 

It has been hours, he is no calmer than before and he is trying to (again) list all of the things he ever did for me and shifts the blame on me my saying I never even change for him, and completely ignores the fact that he threatened to hit me.  WHAT TO DO WHAT TO DO  :'(

[Mcgddss]

My husband is afraid of technology so I don't have the texting issue.

Don't point out his actions.

State simply that you need a break - don't give him a reason why.  He knows what he is doing. 

I have a background in zoology and counseling.  When a person/animal wants attention they will do whatever it takes to get it, even if the attention they get ends up being negative.

I think he keeps saying all these things to you because it gets him attention, even though it is in a bad way.

From what I have read, less is more.  Don't reply to what he is texting.  I would text him when you plan to return "I will be home tomorrow after work."  He is continuing to be angry because he is afraid you won't return.  Then, go back when you said you would.  If he acts up again face to face, leave again.  If he doesn't, stay.

The hardest part is that you can't talk to him about why you left.  Don't say you felt unsafe.  That is giving attention to his negative actions.  Say that you needed a break.  Say that it is not something you will talk about.

Most of the time I feel like I am talking to a young child.  When I do it correctly, he obeys.  For some reason it made me think of the simply commands you must use with a dog.  And maybe that's it.  They get easily overwhelmed (at least mine does).

The hardest part is that my uBPDh is no longer a husband.  That is why I am focused on getting him treatment and working the Lessons.  I wish I had a husband and that my children had a father, but right now that is not the case.

Don't listen to what he says in a rage.  Know that what he is saying is just a twisted version of facts.  My uBPDh has said the same things.  Before this website I thought some of it was my fault and that I needed to change.  Now, I see him as a huge vacuum that sucks all my energy then complains that I am tired.

[Chosen]

Like you, I suspected about BPD about a year ago.  To be honest, things have been better (the little things don't really bother me anymore, and a lot of times I refuse to take baits for arguments), but at turtle speed.  Still, better than being static.

I have mentioned to him that I feel unsafe, in the sense that "when I feel physicall threatened I will leave the environment", which was something I have never said to him before.  I know he's threatening to get me to stay and listen to him, I told him it will not work. 

The problem is, it's his mother's birthday today and we're supposed to all go out and celebrate.  I have no idea what to do about that now.  And also, if he's not calm, still in the ultra-blaming mode and not allowing me to not respond, then it's not safe to go back to him yet. 

[Grey Kitty]

First things first:   

Next: YES, you did the right thing to leave under those circumstances. Absolutely.

And lastly: What about the birthday party?

Can you go by yourself with your own transportation, independent of him? If you can, and feel like he won't behave badly in the "public" situation, I'd consider going.

But only if I felt like I was calm enough to deal with him... .

And I'd be prepared to depart immediately if he started to dysregulate/rage at you.

You don't need to show up for verbal or physical abuse. Staying clear is absolutely the right thing to do.

 GK

[waverider]

Well this is the basic boundary you have to enforce, and that means you taking action, leaving as you did rather then it being his choice to leave.

You did not enforce this boundary the first time, and now it has come around again, so you will have to continue to do it this way. Dont even give him the option to leave or next time he will, but not in a constructive way but merely to preemptively take away your control.

The excuses and reasons happening now are just extinction bursts to deny blame. This is disrespectful, and boundary no 2. While the projection onto you continues he will not accept his part in the original drama and the lesson will not be learned. Increasing the chance of reoccurance

What to do? Stay away until the blame game is over.

[Chosen]

Thanks all.

I think I will still go to the birthday dinner.  It has other people as well, and also I suppose prolonged periods of leaving doesn't do things any good.  He texted me repeatedly but ignored his part in everything.  I texted him that I am ready to talk about my responses (which he doesn't approve of) when he is ready to talk about his threats to my physical safety, as I believe each party has to be responsible for their own behaviour and that their own choice of actions cannot be blamed on another party.

I have heard from him since, and I have decided that I will not be dragged away from the discussion of his actions every time by him stuffing all the things I did "wrong" in my face.  At this point, we either address both issues together (if he feels it's so important to attack me) or not.

[Mcgddss]

Thanks all.

He texted me repeatedly but ignored his part in everything.  I texted him that I am ready to talk about my responses (which he doesn't approve of) when he is ready to talk about his threats to my physical safety, as I believe each party has to be responsible for their own behaviour and that their own choice of actions cannot be blamed on another party.

I have heard from him since, and I have decided that I will not be dragged away from the discussion of his actions every time by him stuffing all the things I did "wrong" in my face.  At this point, we either address both issues together (if he feels it's so important to attack me) or not.

I used to feel the same way. 

With what I have learned about BPD I know focus only on me.  Believe me, I want to hold him to task for a lot of what he is doing - but instead I validate him and leave when I need to.

I feel that by you focusing on him you are giving him what he wants.

My uBPDh has said some horrible things to me and blames me for everything wrong in our lives while taking no responsibility for his own actions on anything.  It drives me crazy.  But I take care of me now.  I still reserve hope that someday he will act more like a husband.

For me, things have gotten much better since I stopped trying to hold him responsible for what he was saying.  He actually blames me less now and rages are less frequent. 

Have you looked at the Safety First guideline?  His threats for hitting are a different thing entirely.  Get your safety plan in place and follow it.  For me, it has become similar to our house fire plan - leave the house - don't take anything and don't go back in until the fire is out.

And I see my own counselor.  I need to be validated,  Everyone who hears my story validates my experience so I don't need my husband to.  This doesn't mean I don't want him to, it just means I don't need him to.

     Keep up the good work.  Best of luck at the party.

[Chosen]

I don't think I'm expecting him to be responsible for his actions.  He will not be at this point.  I am merely pointing out that if he doesn't want to address the issue I consider important, I will not address the issue that comes with that fallout either.  If he talks just to exert blame and guilt on me, I'm not taking this. 

It is because I believe safety comes first that I left.  If it was "only" yelling then I could stay and just refuse to engage in any type of conversation without leaving.  But since he did mention if I stay I would be hit, it is obviously a clear sign that I need get out of there.  So I did.

[waverider]

I don't think I'm expecting him to be responsible for his actions.  He will not be at this point.  I am merely pointing out that if he doesn't want to address the issue I consider important, I will not address the issue that comes with that fallout either.  If he talks just to exert blame and guilt on me, I'm not taking this. 

It is because I believe safety comes first that I left.  If it was "only" yelling then I could stay and just refuse to engage in any type of conversation without leaving.  But since he did mention if I stay I would be hit, it is obviously a clear sign that I need get out of there.  So I did.

I think it is important not to directly try to get them to accept responsibility, as you we cant make them do anything. But it is important we dont allow their soothing via projecting on to us. Responsibility needs to come from their own insight as a result of us nor receiving the blame (if it comes at all) for it to have any real meaning

[Blazing Star]

 

Yay you for standing strong there and leaving! I imagine it must have been a little scary.

Let us know how it goes, it will be interesting to see how he is now. He may keep pushing against it until he sees that you won't budge on it if it happens again. Keep us posted!

Love Blazing Star

[Chosen]

Ever since I mentioned that  I will not address the issue of what I did "wrong" unless he addresses the issue of his threatening my safety, he hasn't brought up my "faults" again, however he did make one or two negative comments about me (like how I never need his approval to do anything), which I just ignored.  I think my boundary is that I am not ok with conversations in which only 1 party can voice out anything negative, and the other has to accept it all.  It is clear that he will not accept his side of responsibility at this point, which I cannot force, but hence I will not participate in any conversation on what I did wrong on that day.  Do you think it's reasonble or does it sound passive aggressive?

I went to the birthday dinner, and afterwards got a text from my mother-in-law asking me if something's wrong.  While I am touched that she cares, I can only tell her that it's just because I'm quite tired, and a little rest will help... .  

The weekend was pretty silent.  Not so much "silent treatment", but I suppose usually I'm the more chirpy one and I just don't feel like sharing anything with him, so I just talked to him about practical stuff, no joking or whatever.  And he didn't try to make me happy or involve me in anything.  Not ideal but I'd rather be in a silent (-ish) rather than angry household.

[Grey Kitty]

Chosen, that boundary sounds good to me.

Back when my wife was demonstrating BPD symptoms in our r/s, the first thing we both acknowledged was that she was being verbally abusive toward me (and starting to escalate to physical abuse).

I drew one line in the sand, and I was a complete hard-ass about it: As the one who was being abusive, it was up to her to get help/treatment/work on herself to stop it. And I wasn't going to participate in ANY conversations with her about my issues until she had worked through that. There were too many pitfalls, like her saying "Well, you didn't do 'X' like you said you would" as if it somehow excused her verbal abuse.

I did say that I wasn't refusing to work on myself, I just wasn't going to report to her or involve her while I did it.

Things are worlds better now; that's another story. I have absolutely no regrets about that hard line I drew.

Does this story help you?

[Chosen]

Grey Kitty,

Exactly!  The point is, I have gone through several years of me saying yes I will improve and work on myself, and I think it has just become an excuse for him not to acknowledge any of his faults, because "you're far from perfect yourself.  What right have you to say I am wrong?"  The point I made to him (I doubt it got through but I still had to tell him) is that he is responsible for his own actions, despite I may be doing a wrong thing.  His response is his sole responsibility and he can't blame it on me.  For years I allowed him to take that attention away from himself and onto be, so somehow even if he is wrong we're just talking about me.

Yes there are lots of things I can improve and he can voice them out.  But unless he starts addressing the incorrect ways he uses to express these opinions, I am not responding to things about me.

[waverider]

Working on me and how to improve ability to interact with others, especially pwBPD. Is MY thing, it is not something I am too quick to tell my partner that I am doing. That 10% responsibility can easily be turned into 100% responsibility, as that is what pwBPD do.

Irony is as I handle things better, my partner takes the new lower conflict levels as being a sign that she is trying harder and getting better, taking all the credit (she acknowledges she has BPD). So the harder I work the less she believes she needs too... . So typical.

At the end of the day it is getting better though, and that's what counts.

[Grey Kitty]

Irony is as I handle things better, my partner takes the new lower conflict levels as being a sign that she is trying harder and getting better, taking all the credit (she acknowledges she has BPD). So the harder I work the less she believes she needs too... . So typical.

True, so very true. But it reminds me of a story: A group of people went on a backpacking trip. All the gear for the group was put in a big pile, and everybody was directed to take their share.

On the first day, everybody took a roughly equal amount of stuff and put it in their packs. But the people were not all equally strong and fit. Some people easily hiked to their next destination and then had to wait for others to come in later, some of them struggling horribly to arrive very much later than the rest. This obviously wasn't working well, as people were waiting for gear and food to arrive to finish setting up camp and cooking.

The next day, the folks who got in last took hardly anything, and the folks who got in first took a lot more gear.

Based on people's capacity, they re-defined what a "fair share" was. That next day, the group was much closer together when they arrived at their next camp.

Emotionally that's where your marriage is--you are strong and have to do nearly all the heavy lifting, at least for now.

At the end of the day it is getting better though, and that's what counts.

And yes, this is the lesson--if you are going together, this is how you can get the farthest together.

And I also agree--it is best to do that work silently. If your partner starts to build up emotional strength, they will probably realize all the work you did months or years after the fact, and be very grateful. It may not go that way for you.

[waverider]

And I also agree--it is best to do that work silently. If your partner starts to build up emotional strength, they will probably realize all the work you did months or years after the fact, and be very grateful. It may not go that way for you.

Funny you brought that up, my partner instigated a conversation about how she is aware that I am doing nearly everything and she hardly does anything around the house, and how bad in makes her feel, and that I probably hate her. It makes her feel like useless and a failure.

So what has she done about this new insight? Nothing. It seems to fall into the category of if she cant do anything right then she cant do anything, all or nothing. Just becomes more depressed about it and reinforcing her own sense of being a failure.

Is it empty insight? Empty apology? Denial of the responsibility for inaction?

There is a touch of the "I have a Disorder that's why I cant do anything right" excuse. A cycle of blaming the disorder as though it is an outside force rather than accepting it and addressing it.

Is there such thing as internal projections? "Me", "myself" and "I" all blaming each other and non taking responsibility

[Chosen]

I don't talk about what I have done, because if we're "comparing", you know we always lose to pwBPDs because they don't fight fairly.  Like Grey Kitty said, I don't mind taking more and us both going ahead.  Whatever works for the marriage, I'm willing to give it a try.

But the problem is, I don't even think H's view of me has anything to do with how much I do.  For years I believed if I tried harder/ were gentler/ tend to his need first/ respect him more/ etc., he would at least feel like we're going ahead.  And you know what he said last week when he threatened to hit me and forced me out of our home (which really was my home if we need to count)?  He said he's the only responsible person in the family and the only one who has any love.  He said nothing will work if I don't work with him.  What utter rubbish!  Even when I do exactly what he claimed he wanted me to do, he would somehow find fault because I did it wrong/ my attitude was bad/ "if you didn't want to obey don't force yourself".  So what to do about that?

[Blazing Star]

Even when I do exactly what he claimed he wanted me to do, he would somehow find fault because I did it wrong/ my attitude was bad/ "if you didn't want to obey don't force yourself".  So what to do about that?

I might need to think about this one some more. Firstly though, it sounds like a no-win situation, that he has set up. So I guess the only way to win is to not engage.

And to know that in his eyes you will 'lose' no matter what you do. And more importantly to remember that it's what you know that counts:

You know that what he says is not true.

You know that its the BPD speaking.

You know that you must look after your own stuff before his.

He may keep pushing this as you grow more secure in your boundaries. Stay strong Chosen.

Love Blazing Star

[Grey Kitty]

You know that what he says is not true.

You know that its the BPD speaking.

You know that you must look after your own stuff before his.

He may keep pushing this as you grow more secure in your boundaries. Stay strong Chosen.

I think Blazing Star hit it right on. I'd also add that since you are starting to enforce more boundaries with him... . you may be seeing some sort of extinction burst. And if you aren't, it may come soon.

Stay strong.

[Chosen]

Thanks Blazing Star and Grey Kitty.

In my mind I know I did the right thing.  I know I didn't cause it (even if I added fuel to the fire, I didn't "deserve" being treated like this).  I guess it frustrates me how everything is always turned around, so that it seems like I'm the one who was totally responsible.

I hope it's an extinction burst.  It'd better be 

Sometimes it seems like my life is a forest fire... . it never finishes burning