What does 'Love' or 'Marriage' mean to them?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was pondering about a few things that highlight my r/s with my uNPD/BPD exbf - is that we barely knew eachother (met just once) and chatted on web for him to say "I Love you, yes I am using the L word, i wish you were here with me". It was a Long distance r/s and within 3 months he proposed marriage to me. I was surprised but he reasoned saying he believe one cannot know the other completely anyway, so knowing the 'basics' is good enough, while the remaining can be worked and shared with each other after marriage.

He always wanted to get married soon. I thought it was because a) he was getting older and never married before, b) All his friends\cousins were married and had family\children. Hence, most times he spend his weekends alone for years and wanted to get married.

On the day he broke up with me he said "I do not have conviction anymore for our r/s to work anymore, I mean it does not take me a second to give it another shot but i would be dishonest to my feelings. Like you said never be dishonest to your own feelings. I love you but Love is not the most important thing for me in a marriage".

As those who read my previous posts know, he got engaged to a girl he met 2 month after our split and it's been 5 months for the break up - he is married to her now.

What does "Love" and "Marriage" mean to them - is it all a game of possession and obsession?

[stop2think]

I was pondering about a few things that highlight my r/s with my uNPD/BPD exbf - is that we barely knew eachother (met just once) and chatted on web for him to say "I Love you, yes I am using the L word, i wish you were here with me". It was a Long distance r/s and within 3 months he proposed marriage to me. I was surprised but he reasoned saying he believe one cannot know the other completely anyway, so knowing the 'basics' is good enough, while the remaining can be worked and shared with each other after marriage.

He always wanted to get married soon. I thought it was because a) he was getting older and never married before, b) All his friends\cousins were married and had family\children. Hence, most times he spend his weekends alone for years and wanted to get married.

On the day he broke up with me he said "I do not have conviction anymore for our r/s to work anymore, I mean it does not take me a second to give it another shot but i would be dishonest to my feelings. Like you said never be dishonest to your own feelings. I love you but Love is not the most important thing for me in a marriage".

As those who read my previous posts know, he got engaged to a girl he met 2 month after our split and it's been 5 months for the break up - he is married to her now.

What does "Love" and "Marriage" mean to them - is it all a game of possession and obsession?

[Ahhhh431]

I wonder if the need to get married quickly could come from the fear that if you find him out that you won't want him anymore... .

or could be that the fact you would even want to marry him made him feel good about himself.

What he did to you definitely was not right, nor did you deserve it. If love is not the most important thing for him in a marriage than what is? Status? Looks? Sex? -- all selfish things. 

Obviously his view of love and marriage is warped and you should consider yourself lucky to not be sucked into it. 

When the right guy comes along he will marry you for the right reasons and you won't have to question his motives for marriage -- he will want you for you, he will want you because you are amazing and he loves you.  True love gives -- It says "what can I do for you" -- but his view of love is "what can you do for me"

[gonesouth]

As I understand you didn't marry him? You are very fortunate. I met my wife online and went through the most chaotic 11 years of my life. She seemed OK, I thought her problems were from an abusive former spouse, but realize he was because she could emotionally out gun him and he beat her up. I am also a "rescuer" and "caregiver". Shot myself in both feet with this wife. Now I have come to my emotional senses and filed for divorce. I am going to a therapist to discuss my problems to emotionally debrief. I'm 64, I want to just take care of myself. Don't sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.

[Rose Tiger]

"Love" means enmeshment, "marriage" means be a mommy and take care of them.  All very unhealthy.

[Zena321]

I too have pondered that question . I believe my estranged H married me because fear of loss. Yet it took him a little over a year to propose and was almost 3 years after we met got married.

When he told me of a his relationship before me supposedly almost 8 years ( I think a break somewhere there and back again)he also told me he knew he didn't love her after a year ( I know should have been a red flag but I was very uninformed on PD's until not long ago)

I told him I would not waste more than a couple years with anyone and certainly not 8 years without commitment.

Well he left suddenly after a little over 2 years married but we kept the relationship going seperated another 3 after.

He was so truthful he would hurt you with the truth . So I know he never cheated on me he would have outright told me when I asked even while apart.

But once he decided to end it for good so to speak he had someone in 2 weeks (a short r/s maybe 2 months)then met the current GF right after her never cheated on either of them even when I prop. him when I thought he was single he informed me he was seeing someone.

Well almost 5 years later he is still with her we are still married not even legally sep. she doesn't care he has a "wife". 2 years back he was doing his will and other paperwork so I asked if I should be expecting divorce papers

his answer was "no I told you I am never divorcing you as I never want to get married again" he also said didn't we agree no divorce until either of us wants to get married again?

It is true we made that agreement when first sep. so I guess she isn't the next Mrs.

So what does marriage mean to these disordered since it obviously isn't commitment to "marriage vows" and since he has a live in GF (what does love mean then). I haven't been part of that for awhile why stay "married" to someone he doesn't love or want to be with ? Originally another reason we supposedly stayed married so my kids and I could have insurance which was great since we hadn't any . Well he quit his job over 9 mo. back so he can't use that one anymore for the GF.

I don't think I would be any kind of fallback/backup as he said he never wanted to be with me again and never heard of him going back to an ex except the one before me. He said was for financial reasons and they had no r/s .

Since he was not working due to eye surgery and trusted he to be a housemate and help pay bills.Of course I know she wanted him back and hoped.

[ScotisGone74]

Marriage to them really doesn't mean a damn thing... . except, 'you get to be triangled now with a baby or get to support them for as long as they choose for you to'.  They will still cheat or do whatever they like, feel, or think is best for them at the time regardless if they are married or not.   Love just means that you are enmeshed with them for the time being... . its the lesser of two evils in the BPD dance. 

[Octoberfest]

As I understand you didn't marry him? You are very fortunate. I met my wife online and went through the most chaotic 11 years of my life. She seemed OK, I thought her problems were from an abusive former spouse, but realize he was because she could emotionally out gun him and he beat her up. I am also a "rescuer" and "caregiver". Shot myself in both feet with this wife. Now I have come to my emotional senses and filed for divorce. I am going to a therapist to discuss my problems to emotionally debrief. I'm 64, I want to just take care of myself. Don't sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.

absolutely sage advice.


Out of my lane here as I have never been married, but I have a thought on the issue.

I sort of see it as one of the stops for pwBPD in a relationship... . I've read quite a few stories on here of people whose BPDex's almost seemed like they were trying to go down some checklist and escalate things, as though it would make it better.

-meet someone

-tell them you love them, get it back

-move in together

-get engaged

-get married

-have kids

-uh oh, whats next?

How many YEARS do "normal" people take to go through the above list? The answer is usually quite a few.  But you see pwBPD breezing through it all the time, like it is a race to the finish.  I think they need something to continually look forward to; when they feel like they are at a dead end they cut and run.

My BPDex knew we were not going to be anything serious (like move in or get engaged or anything) anytime soon or if ever.  So she went shopping and cheated with lots of other people, trying to find something more "Secure" (even though, as I told her, even if we were not going to get married, I take whatever we have very seriously and do not half ass anything). 

Now with the new guy that she was cheating on me with, they have a dog together and were looking at moving in together after 1.5 months of even KNOWING each other.  They think their demons will go away if they get "established" with someone... . they don't.

[seeking balance]

What does "Love" and "Marriage" mean to them - is it all a game of possession and obsession?

Security and abandonment depending upon which end of the pendulum the mood strikes.

The nouns mean the same, it is the verb - the action - of each that is tricky for them.  However, Love and Marriage as a verb are tricky for a lot of people actually.

BPD is rooted in an extreme emotions most common is an intense fear of abandonment.  At the other end of the spectrum is fear of engulfment.  Love and marriage can serve as a band-aid or a trigger for each of these extreme emotional fears.  Keep in mind, these fears can either be from real or perceived emotions.

[thisyoungdad]

I don't know the answer to this question but I sure think about it a lot. We were together for almost 3 years and had a 9 month old when I told her I wanted more than just fiance forever status. I knew she had commitment issues because of her prior divorce (although I didn't realize the reality of the situation at the time that everything I heard was not entirely the truth about that first marriage) and so I was willing to wait but lets pick a date or something. She couldn't do it and I told her that I was going to move out then. I did just that for 3 months, and then she realized she missed me and asked me to come back. I waited another month or so before moving back in but I did spend a few nights over at the house in the month. She was also very willing to get married after that time apart and it seemed very legitimate. We had a young child and we started to plan the wedding but frankly it was overwhelming so we eloped with the sole intention of planning a wedding for the one year anniversary so that it would take some of the pressure off. Talking to lots of friends helped us believe this was a great plan.

Well after being married for 9 months she took off with the kid and the rest is history. We have now been separated longer than we were married. It was a heartbreaking experience. On the one year anniversary she told me in a card how much she was looking forward to the next year together (we had been separated only a month at that point and making great progress so we all thought in therapy) and that she never regretting marrying me. Yet now here we are, that was in October of 2012 and in June of 2013 she rarely talks to me or is even nice a lot of the time. She is making it so much more hostile than necessary.

It has taken months and months to realize that she probably did feel and mean those things she said in October but that as someone told me, her reality is driven by her emotions not the other way around. I won't ever understand, as painful as that is. I wish I did. She talked a lot about fear of abandonment even after she left but in the month prior was freaking out over what I now realize was her feeling of being engulfed by me, the family, the marriage etc and I didn't realize that was what she was saying because she never just said it. So who knows where she is at? She still talks to her friends like she misses me and is sad about the marriage but she would not ever tell me. They ask why it has to be over or if she is sure that everything was done to save it because they think I am a great guy and she avoids the questions apparently.

So I think to the degree she can love she did/does love me. It is just a very damaged, twisted form of adult love that can not be healthy. That is my perspective. She continues to show lots of people what is clearly some type of love for me, both in words and sometimes actions. I don't know if she is so ashamed she can not come back, she is so afraid I would reject her or what is going on but the reality is I wouldn't take her back at this point without serious help anyway despite the fact I do still love her to some degree.

What gives me the most serenity when I can remember to hold on to it, is that this is her journey she has to walk and no one can do it for her. All I can do is pray (she is the mother of my child) that she will find the help she needs so she can have a happy life and then let her go. It is the hardest thing in the world though. Remembering she wants to love me, and others but that she is incapable helps me to realize it is not personal. Again easier said than done.

[danley]

My ex said when he married his ex wife, that going in, he thought they wouldn't be together forever. I asked my ex if he was in love or even loved her. He had no response for a while then he said he loved her because shes the mother of his children. When he said all this, it made me think that he had No idea what marriage, commitment, or love was about. I asked him WHY did he even marry her AND stay with her for 15 years? He had No answer.

[rellis]

Octoberfest, you hit a chord with me. My ex actually had a written list-and marrying me was on it. Seriously. I thought at the time it was "cute"-he is an engineer, but it came back to haunt me.  And I had forgotten about it until I saw your post!

We dated less than a month and he moved in with me. At the time he told me he had been divorced for more than a year-I just recently (after 17 years of marriage) found out that was a lie-it was more like a month when he met me. He hopped from one marriage to another and I was the third. And of course the other two were awful and I was the perfect one.

I didnt know the warning signs then-but I felt something wasn't "right". He immediately pushed me to get married and pouted when I refused his proposal, his nearly frantic behavior and conversations that I was the only one, that I completed him, etc. etc., a little ring that showed up after 5 weeks of dating that I refused until he pouted about that and I took it, the literally instantaneous disapproval of my long time and very good friends-(the first night he met them! ) are what should have been red flags. My bad.

Honestly, I finally "gave in" after 3x of telling him no I wasn't ready to get married and we went to a JP. By then the pattern of behaviors that I know so intimately now is NPB/BPD were already firmly in place and I was hooked.

So, I am not sure what marriage means-he talked a very good game, he just couldn't follow through. He needed someone to fill that HUGE hole-he hates to be alone, but always pushed everyone away. I think marriage to them is just to fill up a bottomless pit that can never be filled or satisfied. Sad but true.