Contact (sort of) after more than 1 year - I feel surprisingly good.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi Friends,

I never, ever thought it would happen, but it has.  I've been NC with my pwBPD since our breakup a year and 3 months ago.  Yesterday there was contact (kind of), in the form of a poem that he put in a folder that we used to share (and that I hardly ever open).

The poem is basically a declaration of love, and desire to be in some kind of relationship.  My first reaction was anger.  How dare he contact me in this way after all this time - with something not even addressed to me, without an apology or any mention of the hurt caused by his actions!  The pretty words just aren't doing it for me - I'm not a believer anymore.

Then I felt sad  :'(  because before, I DID believe the pretty words and pretty promises, which ended up causing me (and him) so much pain.  I also feel sad because I know so much more about BPD, and I realize that this is what happens, and his experience of what happened between us doesn't match mine, and probably never will.  

Then I felt strong.  I have changed and grown.  I don't want the same things anymore.  I want health and reciprocity, and nurturing relationships of all kinds.  I'm working to get to that level myself, and I like feeling that my values, needs, and wants matter.  I don't have to compromise what I want and need to be loved. Yay!  If that leaves just me loving me, then so be it.  Abandoning myself is no longer my strategy to get what I already have! (easy to say when I'm not in an intimate r/s!)

My question of all you amazing people is about responding.  At first, I had no intention of responding or acknowledging the message.  Then, maybe my co-dep    kicked in,  because I thought about how I would feel if I shared something heartfelt with him, and was completely ignored.  That would hurt a lot.  Is that me trying to take care of his feelings again? Or being empathic?  I'm probably reading too much into it.  I mean, maybe a cigar is just a cigar and a poem is just a poem, ya know?  No response needed.

I think I'm asking because the NC was really necessary for me to heal, but now, even though I definitely don't want to re-engage, I would like to feel more relaxed about possible contact from him in the future, not so skittish.  I don't want this person or relationship to have that much power over my feelings.  :)oes that make sense?  

I do appreciate that he shared his feelings with me, but I just don't quite know what to do with this information.  Anyway, for the moment, my plan is to do nothing.  I have a T appt. on Friday.  

Thanks for listening and for your thoughts.  

[heartandwhole]

Hi Friends,

I never, ever thought it would happen, but it has.  I've been NC with my pwBPD since our breakup a year and 3 months ago.  Yesterday there was contact (kind of), in the form of a poem that he put in a folder that we used to share (and that I hardly ever open).

The poem is basically a declaration of love, and desire to be in some kind of relationship.  My first reaction was anger.  How dare he contact me in this way after all this time - with something not even addressed to me, without an apology or any mention of the hurt caused by his actions!  The pretty words just aren't doing it for me - I'm not a believer anymore.

Then I felt sad  :'(  because before, I DID believe the pretty words and pretty promises, which ended up causing me (and him) so much pain.  I also feel sad because I know so much more about BPD, and I realize that this is what happens, and his experience of what happened between us doesn't match mine, and probably never will.  

Then I felt strong.  I have changed and grown.  I don't want the same things anymore.  I want health and reciprocity, and nurturing relationships of all kinds.  I'm working to get to that level myself, and I like feeling that my values, needs, and wants matter.  I don't have to compromise what I want and need to be loved. Yay!  If that leaves just me loving me, then so be it.  Abandoning myself is no longer my strategy to get what I already have! (easy to say when I'm not in an intimate r/s!)

My question of all you amazing people is about responding.  At first, I had no intention of responding or acknowledging the message.  Then, maybe my co-dep    kicked in,  because I thought about how I would feel if I shared something heartfelt with him, and was completely ignored.  That would hurt a lot.  Is that me trying to take care of his feelings again? Or being empathic?  I'm probably reading too much into it.  I mean, maybe a cigar is just a cigar and a poem is just a poem, ya know?  No response needed.

I think I'm asking because the NC was really necessary for me to heal, but now, even though I definitely don't want to re-engage, I would like to feel more relaxed about possible contact from him in the future, not so skittish.  I don't want this person or relationship to have that much power over my feelings.  :)oes that make sense?  

I do appreciate that he shared his feelings with me, but I just don't quite know what to do with this information.  Anyway, for the moment, my plan is to do nothing.  I have a T appt. on Friday.  

Thanks for listening and for your thoughts.  

[laelle]

Hey heart  

Wow, that's a tough call.  I can only speak from one of the longer break ups of my ex and I.  After two months he contacted me with a letter talking about how he had read his horoscope

and he thought about me and how I liked horoscopes.  He said the horoscope told him to try to contact someone you missed from the past (it did, because I had read it too and thought about him)

He sent a long sweet message saying all the things I wanted to hear (I still have it saved on my facebook, but I archived it so I wont run across it)  

This letter got me thinking, and within a month afterwards I contacted him.  I had no intention to get back with him, I just missed him and wanted to talk to him.

Within a few HOURS of talking, I was roped into a relationship again... . (never knew what hit me)

The thing is, all that sweet stuff he sent me... . he was talking to someone else and sending sweet stuff to her, had an 18 year old he was "helping with her issues", while still having a "failing" relationship with his ex girlfriend.

He linked me a song... . and told me it was for me. He had been talking to another woman where I saw he had linked that same song to her close to the same time.


I was only a "possibility" while he was scoping others.  I know you are strong heart, but remember you have a BIG heart and he knows this.  He wont play fair, and you have

worked so hard to heal.

If it were me, so glad its not, I would ignore it and move on.  Assume that you are one of other "possibilities" and let him move on to someone who has nothing better to do

other than to serve someone elses wants and needs.

 Laelle  

[heartandwhole]

Laelle,

YES, Thanks for reminding me!  When I first read the message, I thought to myself, "He is probably engaged to be married and got nervous."  You are right, these intense feelings on his part could be coming from a place of needing to get out of another place.  He IS with someone else, the woman he was breaking up with before we got involved - but, of course, he never really detached from her.  My bad.

Once, I approached him after a break of 3 months, just wanting to end the "wall" of NC, not expecting to even be email pals, and then we recycled within a couple of months!    So, I know what you mean.  I've learned a ton about BPD and myself since then.  On the other hand, I thought I knew what I was doing then, too!

Thanks for the support.  He's been really good about not contacting, so this may be the only attempt.

heart

[laelle]

heart,

I know its difficult.  Its difficult for me just to hear that it's happening to you.  We loved them so much, but they didnt play fair. 

He can not love you... .   He may long for you, he may want you, but as you know love is something different all together.

Love isnt puppies and rainbows, its trust and commitment.  He does not know how to have those.

I know it was only a letter, but I worry how it has affected you.  I know it would have hit me hard.


Laelle

[heartandwhole]

Thank you for your concern, laelle.   I think you are doing great, it hasn't been very long.    I didn't sleep well last night, but I am doing better than I thought.  The time, the NC, this site, therapy - they have all helped a lot.  If he were right in front of me, that might be a different matter, but this message is manageable.  A year ago I'd have been a mess.

As for the intense words, I know he means them, it's what he feels right now, and I do appreciate his sharing.  But to me, the words don't mean what I used to think they did.   And they will change tomorrow... .

Yes, of course, I can find all that love inside of me for him, I do wish him well. 

[laelle]

I'm happy your doing ok heart, and I hope sleep finds you this evening. 

[Cumulus]

Oh heart, you didn't sleep last night either? You should have phoned me! So what to do about the poem. What do you think his reason for writing it was? Maybe a true apology or to let you know that you really did matter to him in the same way he mattered to you? Is he capable of that?

What reasons  do you have for wanting to answer? Is it to prove something to yourself or because you want to be kind to him and recognize his feelings that he expressed in the poem. Do you believe they are his feelings or is it just words that he found some where that he knows when said can create an emotional pull.

I had a very similar experience. No, I didn't respond or acknowledge the love letter/ card in any way. There was just nothing left that I wanted to say to him. I had talked for years with nothing changing, I was done. That was in January of this year, over a year and a half after the separation. If he truly meant what was said in that card he would have kept up therapy and respected my wishes for privacy. You know how that has turned out. 

[Rose Tiger]

There is something about the words 'heartfelt' and "BPD" that seems mutually exclusive.  If you wrote a heartfelt poem and it was ignored, you would feel hurt.  That sounds normal, that's how a normal person would feel.  BPD is not normal, pwBPD are fishers, trying one lure to see if they catch anything, if that doesn't work, they switch lures.  They might be frustrated but I don't see them particularly interested in one fish, more like, any fish will do.  Think about it, they were molded to charm their way into mad mommies heart.  They are actors, personifying something that they think will make mommy love them again.  I doubt your ex will be heartbroken at no response, he will probably try a new lure or try that lure on someone else.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Cumulus, Great questions!  I'm not sure what his reason for writing is.  Maybe to let me know his feelings... . and to see if I still have feelings for him?  It could be a recycle attempt.  :)on't know.  The reason I have for wanting to answer (don't really want to) is to show kindness to him for expressing his feelings.  But the poem wasn't an apology, it did address how he left abruptly, but doesn't address the hurt it caused.  

I really don't have anything to say to him either, I have long abandoned the desire to get closure or validation from him.  I don't need it anymore.  I sometimes feel that the "wall" of silence needs to be let down - not to start communicating, but just to feel my own healthy boundary, and choice NOT to communicate, if that makes sense.  I tried to do that once before, and we recycled, much to my surprise, but it had only been 3 months and I didn't know all about BPD and recycling yet.  Thank you for the questions, they are helpful!  

Rose Tiger, You make a really  good point!  Yes, I do think that this could be a fishing attempt, to test my reaction, to see if I'd be willing to do the same thing I did before.  (uh, no.)  I realize that he may have just been feeling nostalgic or lonely or engulfed on that day and decided to reach out.  That is why the words don't have the power over me that they once did.  I don't believe anymore.  It's kind of sad, all around, isn't it?  Thanks for the input, it helps a lot.  

[careman]

Heart !

You said it yourself:

I want health and reciprocity, and nurturing relationships of all kinds.

I don't want this person or relationship to have that much power over my feelings.

Being a sugaroholic myself I know which bit to say no to : The first one

We know our r/s's were like a drug, addictive, so, which is the bit to say no to... . ? : The first one

I understand your ambiguity, I have it too, getting text and mail msgs. Until I can be completely cool about it and not "trigger" my BPD-r/s trauma, I need to stay out, to detach completely -  ie NC.

/Careman

[heartandwhole]

Careman!  Yes, you said it - until I'm completely cool about it, I'd better be careful.  For a day or so my thinking went back to what was, and what he is going through, and how he feels, and why he wrote to me.  Luckily it is passing pretty quickly, but what is difficult to realize is that my default pattern is to go to the "other's experience" automatically in many of my close relationships (intimate, family) .  I'd like to stay with myself, no matter who I'm thinking about or physically interacting with.  It's a real challenge for me sometimes, so this is good practice.

Let the healing continue!  

Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it.  

[myself]

Hi heartandwhole, it's great to read you're seeing this for what it is. You're saying you're healing by not being in contact, and that's an answer right there. It was unsolicited, so you're not obligated. You also don't have to worry about the feelings of the grocery store that sends you coupons you don't use. If it's good for you to contact him, that's when you'd do so. The best love poem is the one you're writing yourself by being strong. Those who want to be part of our lives can step up, being direct and honest, and we'll take it from there. Enough of the painful mysteries. Your whole heart knows what's what. 

[seeking balance]

Then I felt strong.  I have changed and grown. I don't want the same things anymore.  I want health and reciprocity, and nurturing relationships of all kinds.  I'm working to get to that level myself, and I like feeling that my values, needs, and wants matter.  I don't have to compromise what I want and need to be loved. Yay!  If that leaves just me loving me, then so be it.  Abandoning myself is no longer my strategy to get what I already have! (easy to say when I'm not in an intimate r/s!)

I think I'm asking because the NC was really necessary for me to heal, but now, even though I definitely don't want to re-engage, I would like to feel more relaxed about possible contact from him in the future, not so skittish.  I don't want this person or relationship to have that much power over my feelings.  Does that make sense?   

These 2 things might be your answer.

NC is a tool to help us detach so that we can see the reality of the situation we are in. Radical Acceptance -  A pwBPD is mentally ill - the staying board is full of useful tools in communication & boundaries to protect both parties in the relationship.

So, let's take a really deep look at this as a boundary issue and a value issue.  At the end of the day, what is he wrote is likely what he felt at the time, he just is not capable of acting in a way you want in a relationship - radical acceptance.

Responding with a simple "thank you" does what for you or for him? 

Anything else serves what purpose for you? 

If you do want to respond with anything else, wouldn't the kindest thing to do be use the staying board communication tools as to not trigger?  Radical Acceptance of BPD - use the tools needed in the toolbox.

You are different - do you feel able to maintain a clear boundary with him if you do respond?  What exactly is that boundary?

There are no right or wrong answers in this... . sometimes just getting clear on the expectations can give us the answers we are searching.

Peace,

SB

[Grey Kitty]

H&W, I've got one question and one observation.

Question: Did he just send this to you just now? Or do you check infrequently enough that he could have done this months ago and you are just now finding it, with a time capsule effect?

My Observation:

It seems like after some time to heal the break, you could just have a friendly relationship with an ex. Many people do just that. This could be possible with an untreated pwBPD, but the anecdotes are against it.

I've read about recycles after recycles on Leaving. I've read about the push-pull "friendships" that people have on Staying after a romantic breakup, with periods of emotional intimacy like they would have with a lover or like an emotional affair, alternated with periods of the pwBPD running away/hiding.

But the "normal friendship" after breaking up success story? I haven't read that one yet.

[heartandwhole]

You all are fantastic.  Everyone of you has asked amazing questions or added something wonderful.  It is really helping me to understand where I am, I really appreciate it. 

Hi myself, thanks for chiming in.  You make an excellent point about people being direct and honest if they want to be in our lives.  You nailed it, and I share your sentiments exactly.  I think that's why my first reaction was anger, because I felt that he could have approached me in a more direct and transparent way.  Most of our relationship was based on fantasy, so I understand where that's coming from.  Fantasy is not what I need right now, however.

Seeking balance, you have asked some great questions.  I had thought about just a simple acknowledgement, to let him know I've received it.  Like a "thank you."  But then I thought that seems weird, after all we've been through.  Not sure why, like it's cold or something.  However, I do not want to re-engage and try to be friends.  No go.  We tried that 3 times and it didn't work 3 times.  I do agree that the kindest thing to do if we were to be friends would be to use the Staying tools. 

I don't want to be triangulated, used, pulled very close and then rejected.  I can't do that anymore.  It was incredibly painful and I don't want to put myself in that position again.   I had strong boundaries when I met him and then as soon as things became romantic, there they went, in a heartbeat.  Suddenly my well-being depended on him loving me and not leaving me - which was a daily threat.  So  I had to stay on top of things and make sure it didn't happen, and if it did, I'd do everything I could to change that reality.  I guess my current boundary is that I don't want a relationship with him right now.  Maybe that's not even a boundary?  Hm... . let's see.  In my experience he is not able to have a healthy, reciprocal friendship with me, so for that reason, I won't engage.

Hi Grey Kitty, you bring up something that I thought about, too.  In fact, there is a time stamp in the folder and it says when the file was created, so it was a couple of days ago, but of course, he could have penned it months ago, who knows?  My T reiterated that maybe today his feelings are different, and as has happened in the past, I could have reached out to him by responding, and be ignored by him!  Maybe he just needed to express something and now feels better and is completely committed to his relationship - that is definitely a possibility.  So, why jeopardize the place I'm in by reaching out?

I agree with you, the normal friendship is not possible, not only because of BPD and my own issues, but because of our history together, however brief it was.  So, I won't be trying a friendship with him.  And if I acknowledge his message, he may take that as an invitation to re-engage, and then I'll have to say what I've been saying here (no) and maybe that is what I am ultimately trying to avoid.  Hm... . I feel some co-deppiness coming on... .

[seeking balance]

  I had thought about just a simple acknowledgement, to let him know I've received it.  Like a "thank you."   But then I thought that seems weird, after all we've been through.  Not sure why, like it's cold or something.

"Thank you" Breakdown:

Option 1

Cold "after all you have been through"

OR

Option 2

KIND "after all you have been through"

I mean, you did go through quite a bit emotionally - some folks would just wash their hands of it.  It might not be the response your "old" self is comfortable with... . but the "new" self is learning to balance realistic expectations of self and others with core values, right?

Sometimes, uncomfortable things are the things we should do for our highest good.  At least, that is what I am learning in these times where I "act as if".  One of the first things that I learned here - feelings are not necessarily facts.  Feeling like this is cold, may not be a fact considering the situation.

I dunno - just a different way to look at it.

I know you will do the right thing for you. 

[heartandwhole]

     Wow, seeking balance, I hadn't looked at it that way.  You're right, that could be the old me talking, the one that had to be exceptional in my expressions of love, because I was afraid my partner would doubt it.

The new me can see how a simple thank you might be very kind, with good boundaries, respectful of of the part of me that values kindness... . hmm... . I'm going to sit with that and see how it feels.

Thanks so much, these are such great insights.

heart  

[heartandwhole]

Just updating that I haven't responded at all. (I was thinking of a simple "thank you."  I have thought about it, and been close several times, but something just won't let me reach out.  I don't think it is fear (of course I could be wrong).  Maybe it is acceptance of the reality of the situation.  I just don't see his behavior and words in the same light as before.  I do still feel slightly guilty about not responding, because I keep putting myself in his position of sending a message and it being ignored.  I am projecting my own hurt that I would feel onto him, but it may not be his reality at all.

Ugh. I really want to learn to stay with myself, and let others feel what they feel, without feeling responsible for what they feel.  Baby steps, I guess... .  

I've reread all the responses to this thread and they help so much.  

heart

[qkslvrgirl]

I sometimes feel that the "wall" of silence needs to be let down - not to start communicating, but just to feel my own healthy boundary... .

Sounds like you would do well to save your lovely "pearls" of emotional transparency for the person you truly want to be in relationship with.

You've learned to love and rely on yourself and you may be ready for a healthy life-enhancing relationship when it presents itself.

Do you really want to nibble at your ex's bait and have him circling around in your clear waters again? How would you explain him to a mentally and emotionally healthy potential partner?

You are a lovely person with a kind heart. Your qualities will bring you close to healthy people at the right time. Listen to your gut instincts... . let some time pass and then decide what you want to do.

There is no universal right answer - and you won't be considered "wrong" by anybody, especially on this board. Maybe you just want to test your strength and resolve.

Quicksilver Girl

[heartandwhole]

Hi qkslvrgirl, yes, you make some really good points.  I think you are right, I need to put energy into relationships that are mutually nourishing.  My gut is telling me to stay with my feelings instead of acting to relieve them.

This is progress!  I have an impulsive side that kicks in sometimes and it has burned me before. 

Thanks for the support, it is greatly appreciated. 

[MaybeSo]

Wow.

So so familiar.

My ex does these exact same things.

I know for a fact, based on hard won experience, that when he does this kind of  thing:

1) he is involved with another woman, the bloom is off the rose (abandonment/engulfment fear have arisen) and he is reaching out to tap something that makes him feel better ... . similar to a heroin addict seeking a fix

2) the exact same words/poem/sentiment has been sent to other women under the same

conditions, many, many MANY times

3) I'm a really nice person, but his behavior, even the nice poems etc., has very little to do with

me personally and are a means to an end

4) I know ALL this but sometimes I  "bite the hook" anyway,  because of my own issues

[heartandwhole]

MaybeSo, thank you so much for posting.  It is very validating to know that I'm not alone in my feelings, (although I'm sorry that you had to go through that!).  Yes, I am very suspicious about the timing.  In the poem, he actually says that he is still in a relationship (maybe the same one he never got out of when we were together) and I suspect that he was probably feeling engulfed or needing to soothe, so he thought he'd try something that he knew would pull on my heart strings.

In reality, h is feelings may very well have evaporated days or hours after the message was sent.   

Those radical turnabouts were what triggered my wounds so consistently while we had a r/s.

It's sad, really.  I'm glad that I haven't responded.  I don't want to be an means to and end.   

[seeking balance]

It's sad, really.  I'm glad that I haven't responded.  I don't want to be an means to and end.   

I am glad you are good with your decision.

I think the key to all of this is that WE act on our values or needs and we cannot control how or why someone else might do something.  If any of us respond, we want to be mindful we did it for us - not because of a reaction to them, for them, or a hope that they may somehow be different than who they are.

I have a BPD/NPDish friend that tends to come around when I am pretty sure needs an energy supply of sorts - I practice radical acceptance - if I am in the mood to engage, I do, because like most friendships or relationships, there are positives or I wouldn't have been in it.  If I am not, I say I am busy - no harm in that either.  The point is, I don't judge her for being her, she is who she is and I get to engage if I want to.

Now, I don't think I would ever be able to act that way with my ex - my hurt was just too deep.  I know myself well enough to know that I could not depersonalize enough for it to be healthy for me.

Not sure if you have read 4 Agreements... . one of the agreements is to not take things personally.  I find that a very wise statement... . most things are not about us, even if it feels to us like it is.

[heartandwhole]

Hi seeking balance, very wise words, as usual.    I can relate to the situation with your friend.  I have much better boundaries with friends than with lovers. Yes, if I do respond, it will be for me.  So far, I can't find a reason to, except to be kind to him.  That may or may not be kind to myself.  Not responding has felt better for me, so I'm glad that I've been honoring that.

I've learned so much and I think I am really beginning to understand and accept that it's not about me (even the good stuff).  That realization brings its own grief, but also freedom.

heart 

[seeking balance]

Hi seeking balance, very wise words, as usual.    I can relate to the situation with your friend.  I have much better boundaries with friends than with lovers. Yes, if I do respond, it will be for me.  So far, I can't find a reason to, except to be kind to him.  That may or may not be kind to myself.  Not responding has felt better for me, so I'm glad that I've been honoring that.

I've learned so much and I think I am really beginning to understand and accept that it's not about me (even the good stuff).  That realization brings its own grief, but also freedom.

heart 

Very wise words as well that I bolded.  I, too, had to grieve that realization.

To be honest, I have no idea what I would actually do in your situation... . I probably would not respond, but in my "ideal" version of myself, I could say thank you and mean it... . but I am not there yet.

[heartandwhole]

sb, in my heart I am saying "thank you" to him and meaning it.  I don't know if my fingers will eventually follow.