When person with BPD feels engulfed.

[Matena]

Hi everyone,

As I said in my introductory post, my SOwBPD and I live in two different countries, but in spite of it, we have been able to maintain a very intense romantic relationship at first, and a very close frienship with romantic connotations later on.

I've been visiting him for a few days recently. I was quite optimistic because he opened up to me a lot and felt comfortable enough to talk about himself and his childhood (he had always been very reluctand to do this in the past). I was also optimistic because I could see he is beginning to have some awareness about his personality, his limitations, where his inner conflicts come from, what he should do to improve, etc.

Unfortunately, I am not so optimistic today. I just noticed a recurrent pattern in our relationship related to the moments we spend together. On every occasion we plan to meet, which happens once or twice a year:

1) He will become more and more involved with the relationship, enthusiastic, very caring, kind, send me lots of romantic messages, contact me more frequently in the previous weeks to the trip.

2) The days together are usually very good and quite positive, with just some little arguments now and then.

3) Once we separate again (and this is the hard part to deal for me) he withdraws, becomes very detached, his messages turn colder and less frequent, and worst of all, I suspect he reaches out to any of his ex's or other women.

How can you explain this? There are two possible explanations I can find for it, but I am not sure if I am right or if they make any sense:

- He has very big issues with emotional intimacy. He probably loves me and enjoys being with me, but after a few days together he must get uncomfortable, at least at a subconscious level, and as a consequence he ceases to see me in an idealistic way and starts focusing on my real or imagined flaws.

- I could notice he was feeling sad when I left, so another possibility is he misses me a lot after I leave, and it is too painful for him to handle (triggers fear of abandonment), so he needs to detach emotionally. If this is the reason, I can understand he doesn't want to communicate so much and doesn't sound so affectionate in his messages, but then why does he need to get involved with other women?

Possible answer for this (I am doing half of the work for you here.  ): It is very difficult for people with BPD to be by themselves without some type of romantic involment (Once we broke up in the past he wrote: "I don't know how to be alone, but i am trying to learn". So, he uses a different woman because he needs to have someone there to mirror him.

What do you think? Of course, and unfortunately I do not have a way to find out about this, there is a possibility he loves me at times, and then he loves some other woman and forgets about me, and then another... . , and so on. Hard to say and a little sad... . If this were the case, no matter what, he will never go longer than two weeks with no contact. It seems as if he always needed to return to me to charge his batteries or something like that.

Oh well, I will appreciate any thoughts, explanations or advice on this.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Scout99]

Oh! I can soo relate to this! Wow! This forum is soo great! Reading about someone else's situations and recognizing yourself not only makes it easier to see your own situation through a different light but also helps you understand the BPD's perspective better... .

I experience very similar tendencies with my SO, with whom I also share a distance-relationship... . We are however not in different countries but a mere 3 hour drive apart which compared to you would be nothing, but still brings out the same behavioral pattern in my BPD man... .

And like you I am struggling with the reasons behind it. But when reading your post, things became so much more clear to me!

Here is how I see it... .

First a short brief on how my man behaves and reacts:

Just like in your case he usually loves to dream up scenarios about a future together with me, exploring possibilities in thought on how we could find a way to live together, move closer to one another and how our life together would be and so on... . And like your man he also loves to talk about plans to meet and so on... . But always when plans get a little bit more concrete or when options to actually meet occur, he will first struggle and create hindrances to meet and it will be chaotic all the way up to when we actually do, and then bliss follows as long as we are spending time together!

Then when separation draws near, and either he has to go home or I have to, he starts to detach and become more tense. And after there will be a time of declaring hopelessness, fear of ultimately loosing me and threats of being unfaithful or starting to date others will occur and expressions of not wanting or being able to handle a long distance relationship until the anxiety levels drop again and hope starts to build up in him again... . And then it cycles on... .

Now... . How easy is it not to interpret that as being about us... . That he doesn't love me enough or that I don't fulfill his needs enough... . But I think that is all wrong!

Instead it is just like you really already have figured out. It is about their fear of abandonment, fear of being all alone, of loosing.

It is not about them not loving you all the time. or about other women either for that matter! It is about the core beliefs of a person suffering from BPD!

Yes, they fear living life alone. They therefore fear just as much being in a relationship as being without. Fear of the intimacy, since the more intimate it gets, the more is at stake. The more there is to loose.

My man has never acted on his threats. He has female friends, whom some of them I suppose have feelings for him, but he doesn't reciprocate to them, but enjoys their company, since it cures his anxiety for the time being. But threatening me with it is like trying to create an insurance, ( in a disturbed way) that I won't leave him even if he would fall of the wagon and cheat, (against his will, but if he can't help it... . ). I mean, he doesn't trust himself, so how could he promise to be faithful to me?

It also dawned on me reading your post and also being reminded that I have read that there seems to be quite common for people with BPD to form long distance relationships... . And maybe that is interesting in itself... .

I mean what constitutes a long distance relationship?

It means you can't see each other all the time. What could be gained from that from their perspective?

Well one thing that comes to mind is that that means they can more easily hide their fears and anxieties... . They don't get so easily exposed... . And being exposed to them probably means fear of you choosing to leave on account of their flaws... .

It also means having someone without having to make commitments that they fear they can't keep... . And it also keeps the intimacy on a lower level, from again their warped perspective. And intimacy is dangerous, since again the more intimacy, the more there is to loose... .

The thing however is... . The bigger the distance, the harder it will be to build a bridge... . I mean in my case I can at least see him a couple of times a month, and through that an alliance or a trust can hopefully be built over time, (or not). But when there is countries in between and the possibilities of seeing each other are so slim as to seeing each other only a couple of times a year... . Then that must be so much harder... . ?

My question to you is therefore... .   Where are you in all of this? What do you get out of all this?

You and your needs are important too! And I know from experience that it is soo easy to lose that perspective when loving feelings are involved... .

The truth is that chances of getting any fulfilling relationship with a person with BPD are slim. But distance makes it that much harder... . I know because I am struggling with this question too... . The reason being that the distance in itself sort of enforces their avoidance behavior patterns!

That is, they don't get any motivation to change as long as what they do works for them... . And we help that happen by being there... . On a distance... .

It becomes sort of safe for them as long as they have this distance in the relationship, because it becomes like having a relationship, and ease some of the loneliness feelings without having to take any chances or risks... .

I don't know if this makes any sense to you. I am so sorry for the fact that you have to go through this though... .   I mean I know how frustrating it is... . But thank You for sharing this! For what it is worth you helped me open up my eyes to something I have been avoiding to see... .

[lostandbroken]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this however since you both brought it up I had a question kindof alone these lines.  My girlfriend talked to me one night because I had told her that if she ever cheated on my that would be one thing that I could not handle.  She has a history of drug abuse and yes she has fallen off the wagon once since we've been together but she got right back on it.  She told me that she thought it was unfair for me to blanketly state that that would be one thing I would leave her over.  She said she felt like if she ever cheated on me because of a lapse in her drug recovery that it would be punishing her for her illness.  I understood her point and I think its a good one, however I can't get over the feeling that if she ever did cheat I just wouldn't be able to get over it.  What is everyone else's thoughts?

[Scout99]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this however since you both brought it up I had a question kindof alone these lines.  My girlfriend talked to me one night because I had told her that if she ever cheated on my that would be one thing that I could not handle.  She has a history of drug abuse and yes she has fallen off the wagon once since we've been together but she got right back on it.  She told me that she thought it was unfair for me to blanketly state that that would be one thing I would leave her over.  She said she felt like if she ever cheated on me because of a lapse in her drug recovery that it would be punishing her for her illness.  I understood her point and I think its a good one, however I can't get over the feeling that if she ever did cheat I just wouldn't be able to get over it.  What is everyone else's thoughts?

My spontaneous take on your thoughts and questions is that we must all be entitled to our thought and opinions. And within the realms of what could be characterized as a healthy or sound relationship I'd say that the concept of cheating is a complicated one that most people would find hard to swallow... . In essence... . Nobody likes to be cheated on an if cheated on one option to deal with it is to break up the relationship if one feels that the foundations of trust is broken and can't be fixed... . The reasons or circumstances for the cheat is not so important if the trust can't be reestablished... . And we are all different when it comes to that... . Some people take more lightly on those things and some people take it harder... .

What I find however with people struggling with any kind of disorder or abandonment issues and whatnot... . is that they want instead of having to take responsibility for their own fears of abandonment as well as their distrust in their own actions, to create in all kinds of ways insurances and try to make their partner take on that responsibility instead, so they won't have to... . Which of course eases their anxieties... . I mean it creates much more relief if they can feel that they don't have to discipline themselves to temptation if it is suddenly ok to cheat... .

It is however also selfish... . to ask of a partner to be prepared to take a lot of hurt in form of potentially being cheated on... .

I am quite sure that you don't make any connection between her potential unfaithfulness and a disrespectful view on her illness... . I mean it's not like her illness, (if you by illness mean taking drugs) also forces her to cheat on you... . She too can choose not to... . Just like she can choose to get on the wagon again... . !

On the other hand... . You can't stop her from cheating if she wants to by stating that you couldn't handle it if she did... . However, it is all hypothetical... .

What you are saying really is that based on what you feel in this particular moment, you assume it would be hard for you to handle being cheated on... . since you love her and wants and hope that you both shall honor your relationship. How you would react if it actually happens is maybe a different story... .

And to be allowed to vent such stuff within a relationship ought to be ok, don't you think?

[lostandbroken]

Thanks Scout.  It was a really weird conversation because ussually any conversation that involves feelings is like walking a mine field and this one felt very much like an actual conversation of share thoughts and emotions.  I always welcome it when she can talk to me in that way.  I felt and I told her that I didn't want her addiction to become an excuse.  I did find out that the reason she brought it up is she had a black out and wasn't sure what had happened so I talked to one of her friends and he told me that her blood sugar had dropped (she has pancreatic cancer) and he fed her some candy and sweet tea to bring it back up.  So nothing happened but she was worried that she had done something.  I told her that I understood and if something happened THIS TIME I could see past it.

[Matena]

Thanks a lot for your post, Scout99. Everything you say sounds extremely reasonable.

Now... . How easy is it not to interpret that as being about us... . That he doesn't love me enough or that I don't fulfill his needs enough... . But I think that is all wrong!

Instead it is just like you really already have figured out. It is about their fear of abandonment, fear of being all alone, of loosing.

It is not about them not loving you all the time. or about other women either for that matter! It is about the core beliefs of a person suffering from BPD!

As you say, I used to think this was about me every time it happened, and I suffered a lot about it. Now I know much more about BPD and I am capable of seeing it as a result of BPD. However, it is not easy yet, especially when I suspect there might be other women involved. That's the hardest part.

Yes, they fear living life alone. They therefore fear just as much being in a relationship as being without. Fear of the intimacy, since the more intimate it gets, the more is at stake. The more there is to loose.

Exactly!

It also dawned on me reading your post and also being reminded that I have read that there seems to be quite common for people with BPD to form long distance relationships... . And maybe that is interesting in itself... .

I mean what constitutes a long distance relationship?

It means you can't see each other all the time. What could be gained from that from their perspective?

Well one thing that comes to mind is that that means they can more easily hide their fears and anxieties... . They don't get so easily exposed... . And being exposed to them probably means fear of you choosing to leave on account of their flaws... .

It also means having someone without having to make commitments that they fear they can't keep... . And it also keeps the intimacy on a lower level, from again their warped perspective. And intimacy is dangerous, since again the more intimacy, the more there is to loose... .

I absolutely agree on this.

My question to you is therefore... .   Where are you in all of this? What do you get out of all this?

You and your needs are important too! And I know from experience that it is soo easy to lose that perspective when loving feelings are involved... .

The truth is that chances of getting any fulfilling relationship with a person with BPD are slim. But distance makes it that much harder... . I know because I am struggling with this question too... . The reason being that the distance in itself sort of enforces their avoidance behavior patterns!

That is, they don't get any motivation to change as long as what they do works for them... . And we help that happen by being there... . On a distance... .

It becomes sort of safe for them as long as they have this distance in the relationship, because it becomes like having a relationship, and ease some of the loneliness feelings without having to take any chances or risks... .

You are right about this too. There was a time when I completely forgot about my needs, and codependency played an important role in keeping the relationship alive. I don't think it does anymore. I've done a lot of personal inner work, and I feel quite centred now and leading a very calm, fulfilling life. 

What do I get out of this? Good question. The good moments are very good, but probably the main reason for keeping on with the relationship is the fact that things have improved over time: very little by little he has become less avoidant, gotten better about communication, about accepting soft criticism (if expressed with DBT) etc, but also more at peace with himself and his family as well. This was giving me some sort of hope.

You are probably right that keeping a long distance relationship this way might be after all enabling for the person with BPD. A good point I should think about.

I don't know if this makes any sense to you. I am so sorry for the fact that you have to go through this though... .   I mean I know how frustrating it is... . But thank You for sharing this! For what it is worth you helped me open up my eyes to something I have been avoiding to see... .

I'm really glad I could help you in some way with my third post on BPD family. You been helpful to me as well! Thanks!