HELP Need some hope...

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife and I have been going through issues for several months now and knew that she had a propensity to lie to me about things.  After finding out that my wife likely has BPD (I am not sure if her therapist has diagnosed yet), I had that wonderful light at the end of the tunnel because I found out there was a ‘reason’ our lives had went haywire. 

With the new found information, I got her in counseling, I got me in counseling, and I began educating myself.  Now, during all of this, she would have nights where she would stay in the city (we live 45 minutes from her work) with a girlfriend of hers.  She would always tell me after work, followed by an ‘are you upset’ and ‘I love you’.  It bothered me, but knew that the long drive was something that made her upset and because she is still early in counseling – I accepted it.  I also knew that she had ‘guy friends’ that she would text often enough that made me uncomfortable – and knew that it was a way for her to ‘deal’ with the issues at home.  I wasn’t happy about these – but tried to push past it. 

So… all of that had been going on and though I was doing everything I could to ‘validate’ and show her a safe place to be… I wasn’t necessarily happy with our ‘arrangement’.  But remained silent nonetheless…

Then – the 4th of July came around.  We had not had a detailed conversation of our plans, but I did tell her that I was open to what she wanted to do and we could make it a nice and easy day if she would like.  With that, I assumed we would come up with a plan.  The evening of the 3rd, she sent me a text message asking again what the plans were – I reiterated I didn’t have any yet – whatever WE wanted to do was fine.  She then told me that a girlfriend of hers had ‘apparently’ invited her to a party.  (I guess I wasn’t invited…)  I was very angry and hurt – tired of being rejected all of the time.  Even still – I knew I couldn’t lose it… I had to remain ‘validating’.  So that evening, I tried and she was very loving towards me – even trying to sleep with me for the first time in months. 

But the next day – She kept prodding and I no longer could control my frustration.  I told her I was hurt that she would spend a day away from me when we never get time together (She works evenings and I work days… spending quality time with each other only a few times a week)  She blamed me – stating that she thought I had plans with my parents.  I was VERY angry and told her that I can’t continue to be treated in this way… She told me she loved me and that she just wants me to be patient with her… and then she left anyway. 

Friday I decided it was time to set 2 boundaries… 1) I need to be a priority in her life and that when we have the opportunity, we need to spend it together.  I need to be in her life and her in mine.  2) I need personal relationships with other guys to stop as I was having serious issues with it and it was causing me trust issues because of the lying and long nights of texting.  She became upset and accused me as the reason she had to turn elsewhere; I apparently wasn’t giving her what she needed at home and that it was all innocent.  I told her that we needed to finish the discussion when we both could discuss it in a constructive way and asked her to think of some compromises so we could both get what we needed.  She agreed.

Finally – Saturday rolled around… Now I confess – It probably wasn’t the most admirable thing to do in the world… But when she was taking a shower, I got on her phone and started reading these ‘innocent’ text messages to this ‘guy friend’… what I read shocked me (even with the assumption it was happening).  She had been staying with him on nights she wasn’t home and there was some obvious ‘mischievous’ actions between the two.  ‘My shirt smells like you’; ‘You are forbidden fruit’; sex stuff… etc.  It absolutely killed me… I couldn’t take all of the info.  Unfortunately – she was still in the house and I didn’t want to show her how distraught I was – so I pretended I was okay.  When I thought she was asleep – I snuck out of the house and called my mother as I just needed someone to talk to (It was 2am).   I broke down and cried… well, bawled really.  I hurt more than I had ever experienced in my life… I love this woman and want nothing more than her.  But to share her with this guy – was too much.  Suddenly, I saw the lights come on and she came out to ask what was wrong, and I told her.  She instantly showed remorse (while trying to defend it by stating nothing had happened)… then it became my fault.  ‘Why was I on her phone?’ ‘She only does it because I didn’t show her what she needed in the beginning of our marriage’ … I wasn’t going to validate that – It was not me that drove her to another mans house afterall….  Then she went crazy – Shaking and bawling to the point where I was comforting her.  She told me ‘I ruined my life – I wanted you since I was 13 and I ruined it.’ then it turned to ‘You need to leave – I can’t stop, I won’t stop, & I don’t want to stop’.  I told her that it was BPD and that we could get through this and that I wasn’t leaving. 

That was enough for her to get mad and told me that she didn’t want to be married to me anymore… I needed to get a divorce.  Shortly after – it was that she didn’t want one and that she loved me.  Emotional rollercoaster only scratches the surface.  I had decided it was time to expand her ‘support system’ to her mother.  When I told her that – she became enraged as I ‘would not’ call her mother at 3am.  I told her that it was time and that I needed help and that her mother could help, especially if I wasn’t allowed to be apart of her life.  She told me that if I called, she would call the police and tell them I beat her.  AWESOME! 

Finally – she told me she would just do it herself – and texted her mom.  The rest of the night, I sat on the floor to assure she wouldn’t hurt herself (or me for that matter).

The next morning – I broke down again… I tried to hide it, but she heard me crying and came to comfort me… rubbing my back and head trying to get me through the tough morning.  We finally sat down and she stayed there until it was time for her to leave… she had volleyball and a date with the guy afterall… 

I told her that I needed her to come home.  She said she couldn’t promise that.  I told her that at the very least, I needed her to not go to the guys place… she wouldn’t promise that either. 

That night – she sent me a text that she was sorry, but she was staying in the city (at a girlfriends house).  I didn’t answer.  She then told me she loved me… I told her that  I couldn’t talk and good night. 

Yesterday – She wanted to be home … she made my favorite dish for supper, tried to hold my hand, told me she loves me, and even only sent one text message… (though my assumption it was from the guy and she told him she was with me)

In any case (and I am sorry for the long post) – I am at my wits end… I want to stay and see this through and I want our marriage back.  But is it possible?  Can we come back from this?  How long is a person generally in therapy before they start changing enough to have a ‘semi’-regular relationship?  All I want is for her to be happy, me to be happy, and WE to be happy; but this one hurts… 

Any help or guidance on what to expect in therapy would be helpful… also – Right now I just need a lot of justified HOPE!  Is there any?

Thanks   

[cowboy_Roogie]

My wife and I have been going through issues for several months now and knew that she had a propensity to lie to me about things.  After finding out that my wife likely has BPD (I am not sure if her therapist has diagnosed yet), I had that wonderful light at the end of the tunnel because I found out there was a ‘reason’ our lives had went haywire. 

With the new found information, I got her in counseling, I got me in counseling, and I began educating myself.  Now, during all of this, she would have nights where she would stay in the city (we live 45 minutes from her work) with a girlfriend of hers.  She would always tell me after work, followed by an ‘are you upset’ and ‘I love you’.  It bothered me, but knew that the long drive was something that made her upset and because she is still early in counseling – I accepted it.  I also knew that she had ‘guy friends’ that she would text often enough that made me uncomfortable – and knew that it was a way for her to ‘deal’ with the issues at home.  I wasn’t happy about these – but tried to push past it. 

So… all of that had been going on and though I was doing everything I could to ‘validate’ and show her a safe place to be… I wasn’t necessarily happy with our ‘arrangement’.  But remained silent nonetheless…

Then – the 4th of July came around.  We had not had a detailed conversation of our plans, but I did tell her that I was open to what she wanted to do and we could make it a nice and easy day if she would like.  With that, I assumed we would come up with a plan.  The evening of the 3rd, she sent me a text message asking again what the plans were – I reiterated I didn’t have any yet – whatever WE wanted to do was fine.  She then told me that a girlfriend of hers had ‘apparently’ invited her to a party.  (I guess I wasn’t invited…)  I was very angry and hurt – tired of being rejected all of the time.  Even still – I knew I couldn’t lose it… I had to remain ‘validating’.  So that evening, I tried and she was very loving towards me – even trying to sleep with me for the first time in months. 

But the next day – She kept prodding and I no longer could control my frustration.  I told her I was hurt that she would spend a day away from me when we never get time together (She works evenings and I work days… spending quality time with each other only a few times a week)  She blamed me – stating that she thought I had plans with my parents.  I was VERY angry and told her that I can’t continue to be treated in this way… She told me she loved me and that she just wants me to be patient with her… and then she left anyway. 

Friday I decided it was time to set 2 boundaries… 1) I need to be a priority in her life and that when we have the opportunity, we need to spend it together.  I need to be in her life and her in mine.  2) I need personal relationships with other guys to stop as I was having serious issues with it and it was causing me trust issues because of the lying and long nights of texting.  She became upset and accused me as the reason she had to turn elsewhere; I apparently wasn’t giving her what she needed at home and that it was all innocent.  I told her that we needed to finish the discussion when we both could discuss it in a constructive way and asked her to think of some compromises so we could both get what we needed.  She agreed.

Finally – Saturday rolled around… Now I confess – It probably wasn’t the most admirable thing to do in the world… But when she was taking a shower, I got on her phone and started reading these ‘innocent’ text messages to this ‘guy friend’… what I read shocked me (even with the assumption it was happening).  She had been staying with him on nights she wasn’t home and there was some obvious ‘mischievous’ actions between the two.  ‘My shirt smells like you’; ‘You are forbidden fruit’; sex stuff… etc.  It absolutely killed me… I couldn’t take all of the info.  Unfortunately – she was still in the house and I didn’t want to show her how distraught I was – so I pretended I was okay.  When I thought she was asleep – I snuck out of the house and called my mother as I just needed someone to talk to (It was 2am).   I broke down and cried… well, bawled really.  I hurt more than I had ever experienced in my life… I love this woman and want nothing more than her.  But to share her with this guy – was too much.  Suddenly, I saw the lights come on and she came out to ask what was wrong, and I told her.  She instantly showed remorse (while trying to defend it by stating nothing had happened)… then it became my fault.  ‘Why was I on her phone?’ ‘She only does it because I didn’t show her what she needed in the beginning of our marriage’ … I wasn’t going to validate that – It was not me that drove her to another mans house afterall….  Then she went crazy – Shaking and bawling to the point where I was comforting her.  She told me ‘I ruined my life – I wanted you since I was 13 and I ruined it.’ then it turned to ‘You need to leave – I can’t stop, I won’t stop, & I don’t want to stop’.  I told her that it was BPD and that we could get through this and that I wasn’t leaving. 

That was enough for her to get mad and told me that she didn’t want to be married to me anymore… I needed to get a divorce.  Shortly after – it was that she didn’t want one and that she loved me.  Emotional rollercoaster only scratches the surface.  I had decided it was time to expand her ‘support system’ to her mother.  When I told her that – she became enraged as I ‘would not’ call her mother at 3am.  I told her that it was time and that I needed help and that her mother could help, especially if I wasn’t allowed to be apart of her life.  She told me that if I called, she would call the police and tell them I beat her.  AWESOME! 

Finally – she told me she would just do it herself – and texted her mom.  The rest of the night, I sat on the floor to assure she wouldn’t hurt herself (or me for that matter).

The next morning – I broke down again… I tried to hide it, but she heard me crying and came to comfort me… rubbing my back and head trying to get me through the tough morning.  We finally sat down and she stayed there until it was time for her to leave… she had volleyball and a date with the guy afterall… 

I told her that I needed her to come home.  She said she couldn’t promise that.  I told her that at the very least, I needed her to not go to the guys place… she wouldn’t promise that either. 

That night – she sent me a text that she was sorry, but she was staying in the city (at a girlfriends house).  I didn’t answer.  She then told me she loved me… I told her that  I couldn’t talk and good night. 

Yesterday – She wanted to be home … she made my favorite dish for supper, tried to hold my hand, told me she loves me, and even only sent one text message… (though my assumption it was from the guy and she told him she was with me)

In any case (and I am sorry for the long post) – I am at my wits end… I want to stay and see this through and I want our marriage back.  But is it possible?  Can we come back from this?  How long is a person generally in therapy before they start changing enough to have a ‘semi’-regular relationship?  All I want is for her to be happy, me to be happy, and WE to be happy; but this one hurts… 

Any help or guidance on what to expect in therapy would be helpful… also – Right now I just need a lot of justified HOPE!  Is there any?

Thanks   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[z 7873]

I was in a similar situation in that my wife was in serious denial about the nature of her relationship with an ex, and it was like she believed all the reassurances she gave me. Her biggest obstacle was that she could never think of herself as someone who could be unfaithful. If it weren't for that it would have been easier to deal with.

Thankfully the situation I was experiencing came to a natural conclusion when this other guy self-destructed, lost all his money, and was no longer a base of support for her ego. It made for an extremely difficult time.

Is denial a factor for your wife? I don't mean to you, to herself.

[z 7873]

Sorry, just had another thought, to continue:

She would put it to me as "How dare you not trust me".

The message that I formulated, eventually, is that even normally trustworthy people can make mistakes.

[coasterhusband]

If we were buddies in the physical world, and you'd come to me with this situation I'd do two things:

1. Summarize the story (your wife is spending inappropriate amounts of time with another man, etc.) to distill it to the core issue(s)

2. Ask you: "If I was telling you this story, what would you tell me to do?"

Your wife is not treating you well and you have every right to call her on it. She's also manipulating you in that oh so BPD way in order to try to buy herself back into your good graces, so to speak. You set a boundary (not texting her back after she pinged you) and look how she responded.

Look out for yourself, my friend. Hang in there.

PS: You've mentioned the BPD armchair diagnosis. IMHO, stay away from that from here on out. You've planted the seed. See if she cultivates it on her own... . if you try to force it, you'll just create resistance to the idea in her head and/or just cause her to blame you for not understanding her, etc.

[Grey Kitty]

cowboy_Roogie, my heart really goes out to you with that story, but I'm not sure how to answer your question "Is there hope?" Here are a more specific questions (and some vague attempts to answer them)

Is there hope that she will stop what she's doing with that guy?

Yes, there is hope. But I don't think anybody can say if/when/how it will happen.

I don't see how just waiting for that to happen is going to be good for you though.

And this has me worried:

She told me that if I called, she would call the police and tell them I beat her.

Allegations of domestic violence are serious, and can really mess up your life. You do need to protect yourself from that. Please read this link. I know you haven't mentioned her hitting you, but this will tell you how to protect yourself from that as well as the false allegations.

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

Whatever you do, keep yourself safe.

[Hazelrah]

Cowboy R,

So sorry to hear about your situation.  I can relate a very similar story from about six months ago concerning my BPD wife, who is currently fixing for a divorce.  Following the death of my mother last Thanksgiving, my wife and I began to experience some difficult issues at home.  She was very close with my mother, and the stress of watching her lose a long battle with cancer threw us both into a pretty deep depression.  Our marriage suffered, and in the interim she moved out of our house (for the first time) to cool off from some of the head-butting we were experiencing.  During that time, she re-connected with a seedy ex-beau of hers... . I was assured it was simply a re-kindling of an old friendship, even after she moved back in to our home following the holidays.  That was until I inadvertently saw her cell phone light up in the middle of the night with a message from this dirtbag that read... . "I love you, too".  Up to that point in time, it was the single most startling moment of my life.  She eventually relented, saying she'd made a huge mistake in connecting with this person again, and what followed was a good four of five months of marital bliss in which she re-dedicated herself to our marriage, told me I was the most wonderful man on earth, etc.  Of course, fast forward to mid-June when she suddenly expressed her interest in a divorce after splitting me black for some fleeting reason.  She has gone back and forth since then, begging me to take her back and conversely telling me she is following through with her original plans... . at this point, my head is spinning so much that I can't even stomach the sight of her name via the occasional text or e-mail. 

You need to take some time out to care for yourself at this point.  It's a cliche and an easy thing to prescribe, but few other avenues are really available at this time.  Perhaps some space will aid in gaining perspective.  I haven't found it yet myself, but I'm hoping to find it some time soon.