Son with ADHD

[cpatlew]

I have a question maybe someone could answer. I have a son 32 that was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 6 years old. Due to medical reasons back then we chose not to medicate. Needless to say we had to become a very hands-on parent, involved in every aspect of his life. Scheduling, color coding, meeting with teachers, etc. It has been a very difficult road but until he meet my uBPD DIL he had met some great success in his life. For many years he was able to keep her in check but not successfully leave her. She kept drawing him back. Everybody knows the drill so I wouldn't bore you with details. Everybody here has lived through the same nightmares.

Two years ago he had an emotional breakdown and came to our house with her and verbally attacked his father, sister and myself. During this time she feed him with a lot of what he said many times grabbing his head and saying he felt like he was going crazy. Very devious and calculated with a smile on her face the whole time. Anyway I was wondering if anyone had experienced a child with ADHD marrying a BPD and starting to exhibit similar characteristics. I know that he is surrounding himself with her family and several members in mine that exhibit some behavioral issues. I suspect after reading a lot of these threads that my father is a classic male BPD with NPD. The rages, lies and alienation from my mother's family among other things are too similar to be comfortable. He was very abusive to myself, older brother and to my younger brother who shows signs of NPD. Of course not diagnosed but strongly evident. I can't imagine with the ADHD being a factor that these individuals aren't playing a large part in his breakdowns. 

If so does anyone have an insight on what to do with your child. He is now a man but a very confused and used man. There are three grandchildren involved that I fear for their mental wellbeing with this mother. They are in a constant state of confusion being told we don't love them, hate her and their father and want nothing to do with them. I want to hold out hope that if I can get through to my son there is hope for the kids and him finding some kind of peace. I don't want to see them on this site as a child of a BPD and hear the pain they have experienced. I think looking at my own pain is enough.

Thanks again to anyone that responds. This site has been an eye opener and help in our journey of recovering.  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

cpatlew -   

I am so sorry you are struggling with your son and grandkids situation. What level of contact do you have with them - and any of it away from the DIL? It is so confusing for some kids - especially those that a highly sensitive and more vulnerable. Is your son able to hear your expressions of concern and love?

I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Others in more similar situations will come by to give you support too.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

Hi cpatlew,

Yours is a difficult situation for which there are lots of questions and answers that are illusive.

These are my thoughts on your situation.

You mention BPD in your family. You know the genetic predisposition of BPD. You would know about   too, I expect. So, it is likely that anyone in a BPD family would have  .

You may not be aware of the co-morbidity of BPD and ADHD. Info on this site may help you clarify things.

Differences/Comorbidity: BPD and ADHD

Finally, there in anecdotal evidence based on discussion that 'like attracts like' and people with BPD are attracted to others with similar issues and often husbands and wives etc with BPD or with   born of being from a BPD family, end up together.

So there may be many complexities to the situation you are in.

Is your son seeking treatment? Has he considered neurofeedback? It has proven results for ADHD and may be helpful.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[cpatlew]

Dear Qcarolr-Thanks for your response. To answer your question our contact is very limited. When my DS is with his wife he is distant, angry and short with us and his sister. He seems to need to prove to his wife that we are nothing to him. If he is alone without her he is more relaxed and not angry. But usually within 10 to 15 minutes there will be a phone call and she will yell and scream at him and that anger comes back and he leaves. I don't really know how much he is hearing when I try to tell him I love him and am concerned for his well being. Totally frustrated and just want some peace in my life.

Dear Vivek - Thank you for the information. I have long thought that there may be a connection to my father's and brother's behaviors and my son. I have a brother that married a BPD, a brother that married a bipolar and two nephews that married BPD's. ADD and ADHD is very prevalent in my family.

I do believe that his ADHD was an open door that his wife found an easy entrance to. Before she came a long he had dated many girls that were quote "normal" but for some reason the relationships never lasted. Partly because his attention span lasted about a millisecond. I have had many people tell me that he was a kind and gentle soul and they can not understand why he hooked up with her. I believe that her reality has now become his reality and he is exhibiting some of her behaviors.

To answer your other question, no my son is not seeking treatment. When he was diagnosed at 6 years old we were told if we choose medication that he could possibly have seizures. Chances were VERY high that that would happen. We choose instead to become hands on parents and structure his life. I read everything I could get my hands on and talked to anyone that had similar experiences. Of course that was in the 80's when it was pretty new. That involved much time and effort but he was pretty successful and had established a good understanding of his ADHD symptoms.  Now as an adult he flatly refuses to seek out alternatives in medication. Even though a lot of time and studies have gone into meds since his diagnosis. Now he has a nine year old son with ADHD and the cycle begins again.

As people are subjected to her lies and manipulations they are starting to pull away. But a lot of damage has already occurred and I am not sure where to go with my son. I love him with all my heart but am tired and worn out with all the drama. He has asked to come back into our lives but with rules. One of the big ones is we show her respect. I am not sure how much more a person can do. No matter what we say or do she lies and demands he turn his back on his family. The only people he is allowed to have anything to do with are my father, my brother and the two nephews that also married BPD's. So yes "like attracts like" is a very true statement. 

Thanks again for your insight.

cpatlew  

[vivekananda]

Hi cpatlew,

It is sad, you must be feeling exhausted, please take care of yourself.

I think something you could do is research how best you can learn to cope with the situation. Here there are many resources available to you, I would like to encourage you to explore the site. I think you should familiarise yourself with our two best tools to help us with our children of all ages: values based boundaries and validation. There is a lot you can learn to help you through this. I think it would be of great help to you to really throw yourself into learning about BPD, our tools and what we need to do.

Now I have some news for you. It is your son and wife who have the problems, right? But consider this:

Give me the strength to change what I can change, the wisdom to accept what I can't and the grace to know the difference between the two.

From my own experience I can tell you the only thing you can do is change yourself.

I would balance all this research about how to begin this, with a bit of research into neurofeedback, so that I understood it just in case. Neurofeedback has had positive results with treating people with ADHD and is thought to be effective with BPD too. You might like to consider this thread here: Need to be constantly validating

The boards here are great places for you to be, to learn, to ask questions and to discuss. You are a part of our bpdfamily here and we are here for you  !

From my perspective, the bottom line here is to care for yourself. Do you have a therapist?

Cheers,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

My thinking is along the same lines as Vivek 's. The best chance we have to make our connections healthier and more stable is with good values based boundaries (to protect our values instead of changing anothers behaviors) and validation (sincerely building the skills to be supportive and empathic with your DS emotions without accepting his negative behaviors).  When I am able to get myself into a sincere place, I am able to do this with my BPDDD27, my gd7 and my dh. Easier to practice all this with gd and dh, so I can learn with them with less pain and frustration. Then apply gently with my DD.

When I am tired, distressed, etc. these good skills leave me. So the first step when things are falling apart around me is to get back into focus on taking care of my own needs. Physical, emotional and spiritual.

Here are a couple of workshops that might help you understand these ideas better:

Boundaries - Living our Values    https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries .20  

Validation - tips and traps    https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=191788.0

Here is an excellent video about validation in families:  Validation: Encouraging Peace in a BPD Family - Alan Fruzzetti, Ph.D

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203906.0%5Bsize=8pt

qcr  

[cpatlew]

Thanks for both your advice, qcarolr and Vivek ananda~

You are both right on the money that I have to take care of myself. Yes, I have been to a T. She helped me to understand a lot about myself and why I react to things the way I do. We all are a work in progress and each day gets better and better as I allow myself to regain my own identity.

I have immersed myself in everything I can on BPD having known nothing about it until my experience with DIL. Then the puzzle pieces started coming together about my own childhood and the rollercoaster it was with my father.

You did help tremendously in the idea of boundaries and validation. That was something that was a little hard to understand. I actually had the opportunity to use what I learned with my son in the aspects of validation. How liberating not to have to be the caregiver and fix things or give advice. Just listen and allow him to say what he wanted about some things (give him understanding) in his life and the episode with him was so much calmer.

We are still working on boundaries and that has been difficult because we are finding that he is not truthful with us. Some things may get more difficult. He feels that he can now come back into our lives calling the shots and using us and our things to keep her happy.

Neurofeedback sounds very interesting and I will continue to dab into learning about that aspect of treatment. I can only hope someday he gets to that point but for now I need to focus on myself, husband, daughter and what happiness there is in our lives.

I had a horrible experience this weekend with both my DIL and my nephew's wife BPD (they have become best friends). The funny thing is as I become more knowledgeable about BPD the less I take what they do to heart. I don't allow them to dictate my existence. My granddaughter actually came running up to me and said, "I love you Grandma!" She is four years old and has limited exposure to us. I think the calmer I am around the kids the easier it is for them. Their mother banks too much on angry reactions from us.

Thanks again for all the links. It helps when you try to work your way through the site and find all the helpful things you are looking for.

cpatlew  

[vivekananda]

Hiya   

I am glad you seem to be on the right path. It makes life so much easier when we begin to see the benefits of validation and boundaries. I found there are a number of levels of depth to those concepts and the more we learn, the more we understand and the greater our understanding becomes... . if you get the gist... .

One of the easiest ways to learn cpatlew, is to post on the boards here. To provide feedback to others and to start your own post when you have a question or an issue of your own. The feedback we get from others is so helpful and the reinforcement to our own thinking when we post, is invaluable.

I look forward to reading what you have to say. None of us know so much we don't have lots to learn!

Cheers,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

       qcr  

[Kate4queen]

One thing I have noticed with my son who was originally diagnosed with ADD as a child and then a variety of other 'letters' until we worked out it was probably BPD when he was in his teens (I'm not sure if he knows that as his therapy sessions were private)

He attracted girlfriends who were like him, one of them was definitely BPD and their relationship was horrific to watch and led to a variety of issues when he was a teen when he ended up in the county mental health unit.

They seem to make each other worse. Even when he managed to find a 'reasonable' girlfriend she would often come across as hostile and unpleasant toward us because of the lies my son had fed her about what horrible parents we were.

It's a difficult situation. I learned to be wary of anyone my son became close to (teachers, therapists, other parents, girlfriends, college friends) because they all received his version of the truth and were hostile to us. I also realized that most of those people weren't worth worrying about because I couldn't change their opinion of me. I'd continue to be polite to them and not apologize or admit to any of the crap my son told them had happened. Eventually, a lot of them experienced my son's true self and realized they'd been duped.

If your son and DIL are that toxic, I think I'd try and limit my interactions with them considerably. it must be very hard for you.

[cpatlew]

Kate4queen~ Thank you for you insight. Wow hearing from someone that has a child with the wonderful "letters" we all know and love (LOL) helps. His life has always been a rollercoaster filled with a lot of ups and some very long downs. I will say that his past girlfriends have followed similar patterns as yours. I have been labeled with the wonderful "B" word many times when I  really haven't said anything. We are now in a time when we have to step back and wait for the people that are buying into his and his BPD wife lies to get burned as the saying goes. Slowly but surely this is beginning to happen. She is now panicking and trying to worm her way back in our lives. Of course, this is with her rules (You will show me respect, sit and let me tell you how bad you are, and I will be first in everybody's lives.) She has even threatened me to stay away from my family because she is first with them not me. It is funny when you have your beautiful baby boy you love them with all your heart and try to give them everything. You never expect that that beautiful little boy could bring you so much misery. Yet!  we continue to love them!     

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

That's the thing, eventually my son can't keep up the facade and usually walks out of a relationship-usually deliberately implodes it- before he thinks he'll be discovered to be a fraud. He then gets either high or low and the whole cycle starts again.

So I think you are wise and have learned to stand back a little and let things happen because you can't stop them or control them. But now at least you know what you are dealing with and can take steps to protect yourself.

I still love my son but I've definitely come to realize that we're not playing the same game anymore. I feel very sad that I have to keep him at a distance simply to save my own sanity, but its the only thing I can do at the moment.

[vivekananda]

just a thought cpatlew, have you come across "Overcoming BPD" by Valerie Porr? It is an excellent overall primer for we parents. Valerie herself is a parent of a child who had BPD and she started the TARA centre I believe. I highly recommend it - when you have the time to read it 

cheers,

Vivek