Lack of affection

[Chosen]

H has never been a very touchy-feely, affectionate type of person, but in the past he would hold my hands in public, lean in for kisses (maybe less in public but like at home when we're just hanging about) and snuggle. 

I've noticed that he does it much less these days.  Except for when he wants sex.  He doesn't just show his affection and sometimes even when I lean in to kiss him he'll stiffen up.

Has any of you experienced something similar, is it normal for pwBPDs and does it reflect how they are really feeling about us?

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[allinthesmall]

First of all   

second, I am brand new to this forum and all of this in general. But, I did want to at least say you're not alone.

My H shows a lot of the BPD traits, we've been married 11 yrs.

He was affectionate until we got married and within months after the wedding all affection and touching stopped. Over the years he has occasionally hugged me. He gave me a quick peck (like he was kissing his mom or something) immediately after the birth of each of our children, but that is it. Oddly, we are still sexually active, but their is no kissing or affectionate touching.

I have experienced the "stiffen up" reaction, too. That can be very damaging. I'm sorry.   Because of it, I never initiate touch anymore. The rejection is painful. When my H is having off days he'll randomly say why aren't you holding my hand? Why don't you ever want to touch me? I just try to calmly and gently explain that I do try at times but you stiffen up or turn away so I don't know when you want me to. He looks at me like I'm speaking another language and stops talking about it.

All that to say, It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with you! For a long time I thought it was me and got very thin, changed my appearance, etc... . It didn't matter.         It is him, not you. 

[z 7873]

Just had a argument/conversation about that with my uBPw. I couldn't help notice that she would shut down or even cringe when I'd try to give her a hug or an innocent peck on the cheek, and she said yes she does shy away, because when she doesn't want me my mildest shows of affection are offensive to her. This is really hard to take, we've been together 17 years and have been through hell and back. She told me that I'd have to romance her back to her satisfaction before shed even consider any form of affection, but her idea of that is to read her mind and never do anything that would make her upset, and she is full of triggers and everything I do is wrong. It really makes me not want to try, because it would be almost impossible. She doesn't understand that being a partner means giving emotional support when things are not perfect, and that is most of the time. Very discouraged and affection starved here.

[Chosen]

The problem is, I think it's a viscious cycle.  They stop showing affection for us, then we give up trying after a while for fear of rejection, and they are even less affectionate because they feel distant to us.

allinthesmall, like you, my H sometimes wonder out loud why I'm not attracted to him anymore, because I am less affectionate.  I really just want to say "I hate it when I get affectionate and I'm just turned away."  He is affection with our cat, nuzzles and kisses him, but not the same way to me... .

The thing is, I feel more like an object on demand sometimes because most of the time he will turn me away when he doesn't want affection, and when he wants sex he expects me to be always turned on.  How can you expect that from somebody you don't want to be close to?

[shamrock]

At least I am not alone, except sex? that is something I see in movies.

We talk about huging etc & for awhile she go through the motions but with little feeling

She has a funny way of dealing with friends as well, very little empathy. Would never out of blue call someone even if they are sick.

[allinthesmall]

"The thing is, I feel more like an object on demand sometimes because most of the time he will turn me away when he doesn't want affection, and when he wants sex he expects me to be always turned on.  How can you expect that from somebody you don't want to be close to?"

This is one of the hardest things to figure out for me. I feel the same, like an object. It's a little disturbing to have sex with no affection or love. I have tried for many years to change this, to not have any expectations, to discuss this, to ask if we can do bible studies or workbooks on the subject, together.

He just won't. Acts very criticized anytime I mention it, and very offended if I turn him down, too. I really don't know how to handle it. I hate the feeling of having to just be "on", too. It creates a very lonely feeling for me.

I was considering posting about this in the "undecided" but saw yours, first.

I've given up hope. How do you handle this situation possibly being the way things will be from now on?



 

[maryy16]

My H has NEVER been affectionate at all, except he will kiss me goodbye in the morning when he leaves for work.

He has never held my hand, hugged me, put his arm around me... . nothing.  In the beginning of our relationship (30 years ago) I would try and hold his hand and he would say "Ewww... . your hand's sweaty" and let go.  He just says he comes from a family that didn't go anything like that, which is true.

While I don't really ever see signs of him stiffening up when I hug him or put my arm around him, he definitely does NOT react at all to what I am doing.  It is as if I am hugging an inanimate object.  He will stare straight ahead and not move at all.  Very frustrating!

[bruceli]

H has never been a very touchy-feely, affectionate type of person, but in the past he would hold my hands in public, lean in for kisses (maybe less in public but like at home when we're just hanging about) and snuggle. 

I've noticed that he does it much less these days.  Except for when he wants sex.  He doesn't just show his affection and sometimes even when I lean in to kiss him he'll stiffen up.

Has any of you experienced something similar, is it normal for pwBPDs and does it reflect how they are really feeling about us?

DW is the exact same way... . Knows I crave it, need it, is an important part of my existance... . so therefore uses it as a weapon/tool to her advantage.  Her behaviors are the same as your DH however... . It's not specific to us... . it would be the same no matter who they where with... . part of the push/pull, control and fear of intimacy... .

[bruceli]

First of all   

second, I am brand new to this forum and all of this in general. But, I did want to at least say you're not alone.

My H shows a lot of the BPD traits, we've been married 11 yrs.

He was affectionate until we got married and within months after the wedding all affection and touching stopped. Over the years he has occasionally hugged me. He gave me a quick peck (like he was kissing his mom or something) immediately after the birth of each of our children, but that is it. Oddly, we are still sexually active, but their is no kissing or affectionate touching.

I have experienced the "stiffen up" reaction, too. That can be very damaging. I'm sorry.   Because of it, I never initiate touch anymore. The rejection is painful. When my H is having off days he'll randomly say why aren't you holding my hand? Why don't you ever want to touch me? I just try to calmly and gently explain that I do try at times but you stiffen up or turn away so I don't know when you want me to. He looks at me like I'm speaking another language and stops talking about it.

All that to say, It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with you! For a long time I thought it was me and got very thin, changed my appearance, etc... . It didn't matter.         It is him, not you. 

Holy CR&P have had the same identical discussion with PDw all the way down to the look of What the heck are YOU talking about look... .

[daylily]

I too have this issue.  When I first met my uBPDh, he was very affectionate - snuggly even.  After we got married, and especially after having kids,  there has been nothing except the customary kiss when I leave for work.  I'm sure if I brought up the fact that he's not affectionate he'd say that it's my fault in some way - I'm not affectionate so he's not, or something like that.  He does that with saying "I love you."  I only say it when I feel it, but he wanted to say it every time we hung up the phone.  That felt really insincere to me, especially since we fight a lot.  Now he doesn't say it anymore.  His reason is that he doesn't say it AT ALL because I don't say it EVERY TIME we get off the phone.

Sex is different than affection.  He wants that and gets upset if I don't initiate frequently enough or if I don't show enough enthusiasm in response to his advances.  I have explained to him that women are different than men, and that my desire for sex is tied to my feelings, and that if we're not getting along, I'm not going to want to have sex with him.  I'll do it if he initiates, but I won't be as "into it" as he wants, and I certainly won't iniitate myself.  He berates me, then expects me to want to have sex a few hours later.  I've explained that sex to me is putting myself in a vulnerable position, and that's the last thing I feel like doing after he's hurt me.  He doesn't seem to understand why I wouldn't be "in the mood" when he is so mean to me.  He takes it personally, like I'm not attracted to him.  He brings up the fact that I've had sex with another person in my lifetime that I didn't love, so it must not be true that it's tied to feelings.  I said that person didn't act like my enemy, but of course, that escalated things.

He has said before something to the effect that, because we're married, he can't have sex with someone else, so it's not fair for me not to have sex with him when he wants it.  It's almost like, to him, it's my obligation as his wife to have sex with him, no matter how he treats me.

  Daylily

[Chosen]

Lately I'm getting 2 kisses at most each day- 1 is the "customary one before he goes to work" (he leaves earlier than me), and these 2 days he wakes up in a good mood so he gives me a kiss then too.  I deliberately don't initiate any goodnight kisses (don't particularly want to be rejected these days), and I don't get any.

daylily's post has reminded me that when we were first dating, he wasn't like this.  He was more affectionate and would not stiffen up, would initiate touch.  Like her, if I bring up why he isn't as affection now, he will say it's my fault- because I don't love him, he doesn't feel loved, etc.  So I don't ask anymore.

maryy16, when H doesn't stiffen up he will be "like an inanimate object" too- I think they go out of their ways to show us they are just not interested, and that's frustrating!  I wonder if that is "objectifying" us (read that somewhere, never really knew what that meant)?

[Bloomer]

I went through this phase with my uBPD H as well. It lasted for a long time and was very frustrating. My best advice is not to repress your desire to be affectionate. Just like giving them gifts or anything else when they're dissociated, you can't do it for their response. You have to do those things because you like to and the action alone is enough. That is hard to do but if you can get there, it will hurt less if he isn't reciprocating with the same amount of initiated affection.

And if you try to initiate sex and he isn't in the mood, tell him that's fine as sincerely as possible. Often when my H got physical attention, even though he wasn't giving any, it started to soften his hurt feelings (that I didn't care for him or wasn't attracted to him, etc).

I don't believe it's that he isn't interested, it's that he thinks you aren't. Keep in mind that they usually act out of feeling hurt, not necessarily wanting to hurt us. While it still hurts, the origination is important to remember in order to keep our sanity and self esteem intact. Try to focus on feeling confident being affection with him, whether he responds or not. If you want more affection, try to initiate it. And take a deep breath before responding if he rejects you. It will hurt, but at least you know that you tried, and he doesn't need to acknowledge it for that to be true.

 

B.

[bruceli]

I went through this phase with my uBPD H as well. It lasted for a long time and was very frustrating. My best advice is not to repress your desire to be affectionate. Just like giving them gifts or anything else when they're dissociated, you can't do it for their response. You have to do those things because you like to and the action alone is enough. That is hard to do but if you can get there, it will hurt less if he isn't reciprocating with the same amount of initiated affection.

And if you try to initiate sex and he isn't in the mood, tell him that's fine as sincerely as possible. Often when my H got physical attention, even though he wasn't giving any, it started to soften his hurt feelings (that I didn't care for him or wasn't attracted to him, etc).

I don't believe it's that he isn't interested, it's that he thinks you aren't. Keep in mind that they usually act out of feeling hurt, not necessarily wanting to hurt us. While it still hurts, the origination is important to remember in order to keep our sanity and self esteem intact. Try to focus on feeling confident being affection with him, whether he responds or not. If you want more affection, try to initiate it. And take a deep breath before responding if he rejects you. It will hurt, but at least you know that you tried, and he doesn't need to acknowledge it for that to be true.

 

B.

Good advice... . will be using this... .

[Narina]

Yep, sounds like an echo. Before marriage, all the time. Actually, it began to dwindle after the marriage, but ever so slowly. It is only this last year that it seems to have stopped all together.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't believe it's that he isn't interested, it's that he thinks you aren't. Keep in mind that they usually act out of feeling hurt, not necessarily wanting to hurt us. While it still hurts, the origination is important to remember in order to keep our sanity and self esteem intact. Try to focus on feeling confident being affection with him, whether he responds or not. If you want more affection, try to initiate it. And take a deep breath before responding if he rejects you. It will hurt, but at least you know that you tried, and he doesn't need to acknowledge it for that to be true.

YES. I went through that myself. The rejections I received were like that--she was afraid that I didn't want her, and was so hurt and scared that she somehow needed to reject me before I could reject her.

I also had a lot of negative things projected on me like "You think I'm ugly." which were very hard for me to validate.

 GK

[4now]

Hello Chosen,

Yes, this is absolutely what has happened in my marriage.   We don't hold hands in public, even if we are on a "date."  No kissing, no affection, or anything else really when we are in public.  He wasn't this way before.  I attribute some of it to the fact that we have been together for over 10 years now.  But what gets me the most is we can go somewhere together, ie beer fest a few weeks ago, and he will just go on about his merry way like we weren't even there together.  I just wanted to wander off and go my own way, too.  I almost got all huffy about it, until I remember that this is just probably how his mind works and it really isn't a personal insult to me as if I were doing it to him.  Does that make sense? 

I can attest to the fact that I get affection, kisses, yes when he wants to get busy.  We barely peck on the lips when you know what isn't on his mind.  Oh well.  I kind of look at it as I want to get busy, too, I mean I am only human and I do have needs too!  If I found myself wanting other physical closeness aside from S-E-X, I would be disappointed.  So I changed my mindset to believe that I do want the sex, I enjoy the sex, so why get hung up on the other stuff?  I don't know if this is healthy, but it's working for me.  (Or I'm in deep denial ) I guess I figure I could be single and not getting any, ahem, so as long as we are both willing why not?  Wow, I sound sort of like a dude! No offense, dudes!

He does "cuddle" me in the morning, not always, but a lot of the time.  So I have to take what I can get and just be okay with that.  I have also taken it upon myself to show him more affection, even though I know it won't be fully reciprocated. 

And yes, there have been times when he will refuse my affections, which hurt at the time, but he hasn't done that in a while.  It must have been something he was going through. 

It can turn into a vicious cycle, I agree.  It's important for relationships to have that physical closeness.  I think it just is a matter of perception and hopefully it will cycle back around and you will get more affection and will be able to openly show him affection.  It must be part of the whole BPD package.

[Chosen]

I guess many of you have pointed out that it's because they are afraid of rejection that they pre-emptively reject us.  It is the very nature of pwBPDs to be contradictory, so I'm afraid the only thing we can work on this point is ourselves- to learn to deal with that rejection, to take some time to self-sooth and then to let it go and try again... .

[em754]

I find the lack of affection most hurtful, married 33years now but no physical contact at all for the past 18 months. I crave being held with warmth and affection but my wife is cold and unfeeling, not at all the partner I have lived with for so long!

[daylily]

I guess many of you have pointed out that it's because they are afraid of rejection that they pre-emptively reject us.  It is the very nature of pwBPDs to be contradictory, so I'm afraid the only thing we can work on this point is ourselves- to learn to deal with that rejection, to take some time to self-sooth and then to let it go and try again... .

Yes.  As I am reading this, I am thinking about how much we have to sacrifice and how strong we must be just to exist in these relationships.  Receiving a simple hug or a kiss is this difficult... .    :'(

Please forgive me and I hope you are not insulted if this doesn't apply to you, but I think many of us (myself included) got into these relationships because we aren't strong people and we aren't self-assured, yet that's exactly what we must be to continue in the relationship.  While our partners refuse to change (and perhaps cannot), we must go from one end of the strength and confidence spectrum completely to the other if we want to keep our sanity and what little self worth we have.  Some days it's just too much for me.

  Daylily

[maryy16]

Daylily... .

You are right on the money about me.  I was not self-assured AT ALL when I got into this relationship.  I saw my H as a strong, worldly person, so unlike myself. In fact, I was a bit intimidated by him because he had "been around" which made me believe all the insults he started throwing at me.  Going in with little confidence, then being repeatedly called stupid, moronic, retarded, just pushed my self-confidence right into the floor.

Some days it is too much for me also... .

[bruceli]

I guess many of you have pointed out that it's because they are afraid of rejection that they pre-emptively reject us.  It is the very nature of pwBPDs to be contradictory, so I'm afraid the only thing we can work on this point is ourselves- to learn to deal with that rejection, to take some time to self-sooth and then to let it go and try again... .

Yes.  As I am reading this, I am thinking about how much we have to sacrifice and how strong we must be just to exist in these relationships.  Receiving a simple hug or a kiss is this difficult... .    :'(

Please forgive me and I hope you are not insulted if this doesn't apply to you, but I think many of us (myself included) got into these relationships because we aren't strong people and we aren't self-assured, yet that's exactly what we must be to continue in the relationship.  While our partners refuse to change (and perhaps cannot), we must go from one end of the strength and confidence spectrum completely to the other if we want to keep our sanity and what little self worth we have.  Some days it's just too much for me.

  Daylily

I still whole heartedly believe they do this on purpose and as a means of controll.  I say this because DW can go about a week to 10 days of no affection but by about those many days has what I would describe as an intamacy void and is like a normal person.  Has her release and goes back to another 7-10 days of no affection/intamacy as a means of control/anger/whatever... .

[Chosen]

Daylily & maryy16,

I've always thought I was confident, comfortable in my own skin, know my place in the world... . but I guess there must be something "wrong" with me so I stay in this relationship.

Coming from a broken family, I think I wanted to make my own relationship right.  I want to right all those wrongs my parents have made.  Kind of feel like a lot of people are selfish in their relationships, and relationships are not that... . it's about selflessness, it's about loving the other person, right?  So I stay.

Of course, there're a lot of admiarable qualities about my H, and I truly do love him; however, on the bad days I do wonder whether it's all worth it and I feel like an idiot. 

[On3Lov3]

I am so new to this posting business... and this site. My SO is ... very cold if that's the right word. I have not yet figured out how to be a little less outspoken or sensitive to voicing how I feel from the lack of affection and Intimacy. My SO is 33 I will be 28 on Monday... yeah... My SO is divorced with 2 kids w their dad 12 hrs away. He cheated. She was married 7 years. And her side is he is the worst person ever. She grew up in a home where not much affection is shown publicly. Her family is LDS... She once told me she dosnt know what the words I love you mean.that was almost 5 years ago... She has improved with her communication... She use to call me babe and sweetie and all the corny things I miss. I'm lucky if she calls me by name. If I'm in the other room and she needs something... She addresses me as hey or just flat out asks, but the tone is not asking it's a trap. Is this common with BPD?  I never say hey... I say hey babe or something even her name. How do I deal with the lack of I'm not sure of the correct word maybe personalizing connection?

[Grey Kitty]

I am so new to this posting business... and this site. My SO is ... very cold if that's the right word. I have not yet figured out how to be a little less outspoken or sensitive to voicing how I feel from the lack of affection and Intimacy.

 and welcome here, On3Lov3!

Don't worry about whether you are posting right or not here. We're all still learning!

I've felt the kind of rejection you experience, and so have many others here... .and it isn't easy to deal with well.

Have you started reading the lessons (in the sidebar --->> > yet? The first statement is one to take to heart: Before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse.

There's a lot to learn about. One of the first things to work on is understanding how you do and say things which invalidate your partner. It is a very natural thing to do, especially in the face of their provocative behavior toward you. The good news is that you can learn what you are doing, and retrain yourself to stop doing it, and it will improve things very much.

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner

That was a very long and roundabout answer to question about how to tell your partner how you feel about the lack of affection, because you run a risk of making things worse depending on HOW you tell her. I'd recommend waiting until you've spent some time working on the 'basics' before you try a difficult conversation like this one.

[ziniztar]

Sex is different than affection.  He wants that and gets upset if I don't initiate frequently enough or if I don't show enough enthusiasm in response to his advances.  I have explained to him that women are different than men, and that my desire for sex is tied to my feelings, and that if we're not getting along, I'm not going to want to have sex with him.  I'll do it if he initiates, but I won't be as "into it" as he wants, and I certainly won't iniitate myself.  He berates me, then expects me to want to have sex a few hours later.  I've explained that sex to me is putting myself in a vulnerable position, and that's the last thing I feel like doing after he's hurt me.  He doesn't seem to understand why I wouldn't be "in the mood" when he is so mean to me.  He takes it personally, like I'm not attracted to him.  He brings up the fact that I've had sex with another person in my lifetime that I didn't love, so it must not be true that it's tied to feelings.  I said that person didn't act like my enemy, but of course, that escalated things.

I've had similar experiences. I even tried to explain (explain, you know, the E in JADE) that it had nothing to do with him. That women even feel more secure if they're not in need of sex all the time. He just nodded it away "I don't get it" and was still hurt by the fact I was tired/not willing. Sometimes he'd turn me down at the beginning of the evening when I was initiating it, only to re-engage RIGHT before we went to bed and there was only a few hours left on the clock before our alarm would go off. As if he was trying to test my willingness.

The problem is, I think it's a viscious cycle.  They stop showing affection for us, then we give up trying after a while for fear of rejection, and they are even less affectionate because they feel distant to us.

It is. I don't see it turning around unless you're able to be very, very, very strong and a little insensitive to the whole process. I know I'm massively hurt by this pulling & pushing as I've got issues with attachment myself. I had to decide it wasnt't for me, I need a more stable r/s to be happy. I guess some people could do it... .but only a few .

[Mie]

Yep.

There is kissing and hugging but it's all on his terms. He is sometimes on 'huggy mood' (his words).

Sex, however, is totally separated from any emotions. And that is a problem for me, because for me sex and love are connected.

And verbal abuse is such a big turn off, which he can't understand.