How Do They React to Truth

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

BPD is a shame-based disorder.  My ex used outrageous duplicity when he cheated on me.  I went 4 mos. NC & then he emailed me "Can we be friends?"  I am working with therapist & told her & wanted brief contact as there were things I never got off my chest.  So we agreed to very brief "catch up" emails until I was ready to lower the boom.  He said his new relationship is a "serious one" then said "that being said, not a day goes by that I don't think of you, the great affection I have for you, how I undervalued you... . ":  blah, blah, blah, but never a real apology, never a "I'm sorry for hurting you."  He said he knew he hadn't been a good S.O. & wanted to be a better friend.  (Never mind S.O & friends should both be capable of loyalty, honesty, truthfulness!)  So we had a few very brief "catch up" emails.  Then I said "I have worked very hard to get where I am.  Hasn't been easy.  You hurt me very much."  Then listed specific instances of his  duplicity & ended ":)o you have any idea how you hurt me?"  Never expected reply, never got one. But I am curious -- since it is a shame based disorder, how did he react to this truthful email?  Obviously, he wanted friendship to make him feel better about his actions & instead got a dose of truth & reality.  Can't help but wonder his reaction.  Anyone have similar experience?

[eniale]

BPD is a shame-based disorder.  My ex used outrageous duplicity when he cheated on me.  I went 4 mos. NC & then he emailed me "Can we be friends?"  I am working with therapist & told her & wanted brief contact as there were things I never got off my chest.  So we agreed to very brief "catch up" emails until I was ready to lower the boom.  He said his new relationship is a "serious one" then said "that being said, not a day goes by that I don't think of you, the great affection I have for you, how I undervalued you... . ":  blah, blah, blah, but never a real apology, never a "I'm sorry for hurting you."  He said he knew he hadn't been a good S.O. & wanted to be a better friend.  (Never mind S.O & friends should both be capable of loyalty, honesty, truthfulness!)  So we had a few very brief "catch up" emails.  Then I said "I have worked very hard to get where I am.  Hasn't been easy.  You hurt me very much."  Then listed specific instances of his  duplicity & ended ":)o you have any idea how you hurt me?"  Never expected reply, never got one. But I am curious -- since it is a shame based disorder, how did he react to this truthful email?  Obviously, he wanted friendship to make him feel better about his actions & instead got a dose of truth & reality.  Can't help but wonder his reaction.  Anyone have similar experience?

[patientandclear]

My ex wants to be in touch with me when and because it makes him feel good.  If it comes close to making him feel bad, he heads for the hills.  I recently had an exchange with him that involved my asserting that he had treated me badly, not in the romantic r/s (we have never ventured into that territory -- the deception and lies of omission going in, his over the top reassurances to me not to be scared, to trust him, and then his fleeing without being willing to do any work to salvage what he said was so important) but in our post-r/s friendship.  He nearly abandoned the friendship over it & we are still very very tenuous, as I am not sure what friendship means when it seems to be contingent on my never making him feel bad.

He simply cannot handle the idea of us being close and having a strong bond, AND processing that he hurt me or handled things badly.  We all know enough about BPD to understand why that would be -- it requires holding opposed feelings at the same time, it requires understanding forgiveness and repair, it requires him understanding that he is a person worth forgiving, if that makes sense.

As far as I can make out, to the extent that he can make room for the idea that he has acted badly, he chalks up our continued r/s to my "naivete," as if I am carrying on because I don't realize I was treated poorly, not because I have registered it and forgiven him.

There are very extreme limits on the emotional processing one can do together with someone with BPD about the harm done by their own behaviors.  That's just a reality, it seems.

[tailspin]

eniale,

It's my understanding that those suffering from BPD often view us as an extension of themselves.  If this is true, there cannot be a firm grasp on their ability to discern when or if we are hurting if they, themselves, are not hurting.  Your ex probably felt a degree of relief once the relationship ended; the anxiety was (temporarily) gone.  It's most likely he assumed you felt exactly the same way, and does not see how what he did caused you any pain, because what he did to you eased the pain for him.

Also, as you specified, this is a shame based disorder.  Denial keeps the shame firmly under wraps.  However, it's great you had the opportunity to tell your ex what your truths are.  Just don't be surprised if things get turned around to the point where he begins to project his illness onto you or blames you for things ending badly. It's unlikely you both share the same truths; it's most likely he saw things completely different.

I've learned that rational thought and behavior are too much to expect in these situations.  During serious discussions, my expwBPD never replied to me as an adult but always as a scared and angry child.

tailspin

[Nearlybroken]

I have also struggled with the fact that BPD is a shame based disorder and my ex seems incapable of being shamed.When I have told him about the (many) times he has upset and hurt me he either distorts the situation to turn it round to be about him,says the event didn't happen at all or twists my words so I look like the one with the issue.He has never shown any shame, empathy or remorse.His favourite lines " Well, I can't help the way you feel" and "YOU made you feel like that not me".He cannot take any responsibility for his actions and when faced with the prospect he has done something wrong will make every effort to ensure I look like I am in the wrong.As long as I dont make him feel bad ( ie put up with the shouting and abuse and lies etc etc ) then all is well.He is incapable of the loyalty and honesty that goes with ANY relationship.He operates so well on a shallow level and as long as people think he is the funny guy/women show him attention he is happy.he cannot do anything other than superficial.There have been times when he has behaved teriibly towards me and I have wondered "surely he must know what he is doing... . anyone would know that to shout abuse and undermine someone is wrong?" I struggle to understand most things about BPD but it makes me feel worthless when he reacts without any remorse to my (at times very very visible) distress.He doesn't even think I am worth  enough  to even acknowledging his awful behaviour and the destruction that it has caused to me.I think that my previous posts show how often I have tried and failed to make him see how I feel.Am yet to get anything in the way of an apology.

[babyducks]

Nearly broken,

Here is my two cents on shame based stuff.  

People who suffer with BPD have emotions that are harmfully intense.  When the emotions fire, I believe many pwBPD push away the emotions by dumping it on those closest.

 My partner knew, imperfectly, when she was out of control, she just had no ability to stop the freight train.  The shame stuff often got lost beneath the blaming.

For my partner  it looked like this,  I can't believe I am doing this again, I can't accept I made a mistake because if I made a mistake I must be a huge mistake, therefore it must be you, all you, if it is all  on you then I have nothing to be ashamed of or frightened about.  

For me and mine the level of blame and shame were proportionate.

Babyducks

[eniale]

Thanks to all for the input.  In our last phone call after breakup (before he started emailing me) he said "I feel so bad.  I know you loved me so much."  Incapable of saying "I feel so bad BECAUSE I HURT YOU; I know you loved me so much."  Always about him.  "He feels so bad" so now he wants to stop feeling bad (they do know right from wrong) by trying to make me his friend.  Completely nuts.  I cannot understand how anyone would want to be friends with someone who has no loyalty, no truthfulness, no honor.  I believe those same things must be present in friendship as well as a romantic relationship & do not want him for a friend.  I am sure his present girlfriend had no idea he was emailing me.  Always does things in secret.  No one can trust him.  Just was curious as to how he might be processing the truth of what I said.  Understand he can't process two thoughts at once; good point.  Guess he is blaming it all on me, but that is of no interest to me since I never want anything to do with him again.

[PM720]

What I always noticed is that she would run away.  If an argument started, any time I would say anything that was truthful and that she didn't want to hear she would run into the bathroom or go to her car and leave.  It is similar now, she will say all types of things to me and when I counter with logic, she doesn't want to speak anymore.  It's as if deep down she knows that I am right and she just doesn't want to face it.  Their arguments are also so irrational that when you counter it with reason, they can't handle it.

[eniale]

PM720 --

Exactly.  They run away.  And that is why I have not had a response from him, and didn't expect one.  The only reason I responded to him breaking 4 mos. NC was for the satisfaction of getting to say what I had never said.    In first email, he actually said "close friendship can be very fulfilling."  I responded to that by saying "Close friendship impossible due to unresolved issues I do not want to discuss at this time.  Catch up emails o.k."  He then said:  "O.K., I just don't want to lose contact with you."  We had a few chit chat emails, and then I had my moment of truth.  Above you will note at time of break up he said "I feel so bad.  I know how much you love me."  He was referring to HIS own bad feelings over what HE had done, never mine MY hurt over what he had done.  Impossible to think of another!  Only about him, him, him.  I am finally starting to see the enormity of the disorder.  Perhaps these bad feelings of his persisted & are bothering him deep down & he thinks by offering friendship they will go away!  I have read they know right from wrong.  But they want what they want, (they are very impulsive)  just don't want the bad feelings that accompany their actions.  Like a 5 year old.  Deep down, we probably sense how discounted we were/are, and have been all through the "relationship", and that contributes to the pain.  It was never a relationship at all as these people do not relate at all, it seems to me. Extremely hard on one's self esteem.  We thought our love was being returned & they live in another reality.

[heartcoaster]

What I always noticed is that she would run away.  If an argument started, any time I would say anything that was truthful and that she didn't want to hear she would run into the bathroom or go to her car and leave.  It is similar now, she will say all types of things to me and when I counter with logic, she doesn't want to speak anymore.  It's as if deep down she knows that I am right and she just doesn't want to face it.  Their arguments are also so irrational that when you counter it with reason, they can't handle it.

+ 1 on this.  There was a whole lot of leaving the room, slamming doors, or flat out saying I was being ridiculous.  And it really didn't matter how I presented an issue, the result was ofen the same.  Not only did my ex have trouble ever admitting she wrong, a "sorry" was far and few between.  I guess they have a difficult time admitting they are flawed or make mistakes?

[papawapa]

Since we split up I have been painted black. Anytime I speak the truth it sets her off and she begins to rage. The truth triggers the same and guilt, the rage/running away is the defense to stop their pain and an attempt to push us away.

[Octoberfest]

at one point (after i caught her cheating again) my BPDex threatened to contact the police and report me for harassment.  Later on after we reconciled, she explained that "I wasn't going to do it, I just wanted you to stop making me cry". 

I.e., me calling her every nasty name in the book for being a lying, cheating whore made her feel awful because she knew she deserved it.

[danley]

Since we split up I have been painted black. Anytime I speak the truth it sets her off and she begins to rage. The truth triggers the same and guilt, the rage/running away is the defense to stop their pain and an attempt to push us away.

Been there too. The truth exposes their vulnerability and they don't like that. Nobody truly would like that. When I used to try to speak the truth of what my ex was doing he'd get enraged too. And I used to think if I was not thinking right because he would deny with such conviction. He didn't want to think about what he knew he was doing was wrong. It meant that he was flawed and was a failure. I believe everyone makes mistakes and has a past they may not be proud of. But the lengths and extremes they go to to protect their self image reflects low self esteem and selfishness. There were many times where it seemed like his shame was under control but he probably just swept it away for a moment and it never completely disappeared. I do hope my ex one day finds the confidence to accept himself and his mistakes. I cannot imagine living with this kind of fear and paranoia everyday.

[leftbehind]

the deception and lies of omission going in, his over the top reassurances to me not to be scared, to trust him, and then his fleeing without being willing to do any work to salvage what he said was so important

[/b]

this is my same experience too, Patient&Clear.