Sense of dread

[arabella]

So life has been piling up here and everything has come down to a crunch. I need a little support, maybe some advice on keeping myself together... . dBPDh's girlfriend is flying home tomorrow and I'm a mess. See story outline, below.

Quick overview:

- H and I have an open r/s but this gf wants him to leave me for her, obviously not cool

- GF has done a number of other things which are rather outside the boundaries of my tolerance - I don't like her and I don't trust her; she fits the criteria for NPD

- H moved out in May partially because he dissociated, partially b/c GF said she was coming back

- GF's been out of the country for over a year but coming back tomorrow (delayed from May)

- H is picking GF up at the airport and they have plans to spend the week vactioning together

- I started a new job today and generally have quite a bit on my own plate atm

- I am a ball of stress in a hand basket at this point

- H and I are not fighting at this point, he's been more stable lately, I think he's starting to come out of the dissociation (*knock on wood*)

- prior to this year, H had been stable for 10 years (i.e. no major incidents or BPD problems)

- being in limbo sucks

- H has pretty much conceded that the reason he's 'stuck' is that he's waiting to see how things go with GF; i.e. he can't move forward because he doesn't know what's going on with her (and he's "invested so much time and energy into it now" that he "needs to do everything to make it work with her" 

So I'm seeing H one last time tomorrow evening, after work. Then he's off with GF. I'm really struggling with this. I just feel this horrible sense of dread. I feel like they're going to have this amazing time together and he'll come back and tell me we're over. I'm afraid that she'll convince him to leave me for her (she's all about the emotional blackmail, so this isn't just me being paranoid - although that plays into it too). I feel like it's already over and she isn't even here yet. I'm a mess and I can't really tell H because he's just not willing to hear it - he gets angry and frustrated that I'm upset. I'm probably not explaining all of this very well, to him or on here... .

:'( :'(

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[zaqsert]

Arabella, I can only imagine that this must be bringing on all sorts of bad feelings.  I'm sorry it's all piling on.

            

I wish I had advice for how to make this stop happening.  All I can think of offering right now are friendly reminders of things that I believe you know (I've read many of your posts over the past several months) yet tend to be hard to remember in these situations.

- What you feel right now is very understandable.  Most of us nons would feel the same way.

- You did explain it well here, and I'm sure to your H too.

- You are a very strong, intelligent, kind, caring woman who is absolutely worthy of being heard and being treated well.  What your H is doing is way more likely because of his 'stuff' than because of anything you did or did not do.

- Your H's decision is one that he will make on his own.  Unfortunately, only he will figure out what he decides, when he decides it, or how long he will keep himself in limbo.

- Being in limbo does suck.

Who can you chat with or visit with, who would be good at just listening to your feelings?

What can you do for yourself at the moment?

[Grey Kitty]

   Yeah, this really sucks. Just being left for a week like this is hard, I've been through it, and it isn't very good for me either.

About the only hopeful(?) thing I can say is that your H will make his own choices what to do with you and what to do with his GF. She can try to influence him (emotionally blackmail him, if you will). But he still makes his own choices. You've already noticed how hard it is for you or anybody else to influence him!

Do take good care of yourself (I know, it is really hard!) ... .

... . and let us know how it is going for you.

[connect]

 

Hugs to you Arabella - hard times I know.

So he had this nice little BPD "bolthole" LDR fantasy thing doing on with the g/f. She is far away. He is in a disregulated/dissociated period. He can handle someone out of the country who wont step on his BPD toes and raw feelings. It all seems easy for him. UNTIL SHE COMES BACK AND IS REAL! Oh boy I doubt very much that she will be a bolthole for him now. She will have real emotions and problems, she will trigger him, she will make demands and from what you have said previousley it sounds as if he has become increasingly irritated with her the nearer it got to her arrival. I dont think he wanted HER I think he just wanted the distance that she provided while he was dissociated. Thats what he was after.

The thing is we all know we cant make them see anything by telling them. I think he has to go through the destruction of his unrealistic fantasy and come out the other side. Unfortunately so do you  

You know your husband and you know that he came out of a similar thing once before and regretted the poor decisions he made then.

You are in "staying" and I know you know that this bit of "staying" will be testing for you. He will be up and down for a while and will come running back to you. I can see it now.

I think you should post and post on the boards while he is coming out to the other side of this. We know what it's like x

You have helped so many people on these boards  - we all owe you one.  

[arabella]

Thanks for all the  ! I really needed that!

Okay, last night was the night. The GF has landed. H came over, pre-airport, for dinner. It was a good, but weird, evening:

- got off work late, forgot I was out of cat food (oh noes!); much running around, random stress

- H offered to pick up kibble, came back with spare bag plus fancy new collar for our furball (he hasn't bought the cat anything in years, tonight he said he felt guilty for neglecting her these past few months. huh.) He even brought fancy beer for us (he and I, not the cat!)

- ate dinner, laughed a lot, H was in good mood; we even joked about living arrangements and ducks

- H said he was resigned to "anticipating a lot of ridiculous demands" from GF (huh.)

- told him I was disappointed he couldn't come to the party my new office is having tomorrow, he apologized and asked what I told them re him not coming; I said I told them the truth, he's going camping with people that I didn't feel like going with. I got this stunned look and then he says, semi-joking, "The truth? Oh. That's a good idea! Easy to remember. That's a good way to do it." Me: *facepalm*

- texts from airport: he loves me, he thinks I'm "awesome", he's pissed off how much he's had to do for GF and she doesn't appreciate any of it and she doesn't do anything for him (least of which is picking her up at airport, an hour out of town, in the middle of the night after working a 13-hour shift, parking there cost about $20 too)

- told me he'd try to stay in touch via text, let me know what was going on, and hopefully see me early next week

- I asked if he realized I'd be pissed off if he disappeared for a full week; he said yes and that he was trying to avoid that (both being away that long and making me mad - I did ask for clarification! haha)

So... . GF fantasy crash? Nerves short-circuiting the delicate BPD brain? I don't know. Weirdly, by the time he got here last night for dinner I had sort of let it all go. I think I burned out my 'care' centre in my brain. Not sure if I'll send myself into a panic again but right now I'm pretty calm. I've got my own stuff to do (a lot of it actually) and I just... . am kind of tired. (Still hoping GF totally blows this. haha)

[zaqsert]

Hope you can get some well-deserved rest now!  Keep us posted whenever you feel like posting.

[Free One]

I just feel this horrible sense of dread.

This can be a symptom of PTSD. Is that a possibility?

[arabella]

Hope you can get some well-deserved rest now!  Keep us posted whenever you feel like posting.

Thanks! You know, I did actually sleep in really late. And I've eaten more today than I have in ages. I guess the anticipation was worse than the actual event? Weird. I hope I can hang on to some of this calm... .

This can be a symptom of PTSD. Is that a possibility?

You know, I've thought of that. Not relating to the dread specifically (didn't know that was a symptom!), but just with everything I've been experiencing over the past few months and how I've been feeling. It really does feel like PTSD. I should look into how that's treated. Any tips?

[Free One]

A good T and EMDR works wonders. Look up the other symptoms, or find an online quiz to access if you think that may be part of it.

[Clearmind]

Arabella, for any arrangement to work, whether it’s an open relationship or not, everyone involved needs to feel safe and secure otherwise the arrangement is not working - we may need to adjust our limits and boundaries to make it OK for us.

Goal posts change all the time - have yours (in relation to his r/s with the GF)?

[arabella]

Clearmind - I think you're very right. This is not how the arrangement is supposed to work. This particular r/s is very different than others H has had in the past and I have not been happy with this one. It started out okay, but it certainly has not continued to be so.

I'm not sure how to set boundaries with it because H has been very clear up until now that either he gets to pursue this r/s as he sees fit, without my interference, or he will end his r/s with me in order to do so. Up until recently I had no doubt that he meant it too, and I was not willing to make this my last stand. Now things seem to be shifting slightly. This presents a new problem - it may be shifting to fit in with the limits we had previously established for our open r/s. Do I accept it as being okay then? Or do I say 'no' based on how it's been up until now (i.e. it's a poisoned environment)?

I think I'm just not sure HOW to set boundaries here. Or what boundaries to set! Something does need to change though. How do I make this okay for me?

[Clearmind]

Arabella, can I ask firstly what limits were established between the two of you prior to the open relationship starting out (if any)? And have the limits blurred themselves over time?

[arabella]

Arabella, can I ask firstly what limits were established between the two of you prior to the open relationship starting out (if any)? And have the limits blurred themselves over time?

Hmm... . That was quite a long time ago! The general limits for the open r/s were that we would remain each others' 'primary' partners. Third parties were considered 'casual' relationships. Here were the main 'rules' - all subject to change if both of us agreed ahead of time:

• no major expenditures relating to any 3rd party (e.g. expensive gifts, expensive dates, vacations, etc)



• no combining major 'household' type items with 3rd parties (e.g. shared accounts, pets, etc)



• no sleepovers without prior consent (these did happen and were negotiated ahead of time, no problem)



• no children involved in any way



• no introducing 3rd parties to family (we aren't 'out' to our families) or to friends who weren't aware of the nature of our r/s (could introduce them as 'just friends' though, of course)



• major holidays right of first refusal given to spouse (3rd always had priority on his/her special dates unless there was overlap, e.g. his/her birthday or other days significant to them)



• we each had veto rights if proposed dates/plans made one of us uncomfortable (never happened, we always just compromised and it was fine)



• each of us always had the option to meet/not meet the other person's dates



• all third parties to be told of all these rules, full disclosure, on the first date (or before, if possible); agreement/understanding of these rules required for continuing the r/s beyond that

We hadn't had any real problems over the years until now. Sure, there were some disagreements, misunderstandings, etc. but it was all worked out and H and I were fine with it. Now this current r/s... . Started out fine. Then it got really intense and I wanted H to end it when GF left the country. She had demonstrated some really crazy behaviour and lied to a lot of people. To say it made me uncomfortable would be an understatement. H said he ended it. He lied. She lied. There was a huge strain on our r/s but I didn't know the source, H was just acting really 'off' and irritable. H dissociated then spent half our savings to fly around the world to see GF (they both lied about that too). She wanted him to leave me, so he moved out (part of that was his own mental health issues too, I do understand that). H has spent a ridiculous amount of time/money on this woman. Now she wants him to divorce me, support her, buy a house to live with her out in the country, raise rabbits/ducks/whatever, is demanding to meet his family, and is staying with him right now. He knows I'm not okay with it but insists that he has to give her a chance because he's "spent so much time and effort on this already" and he doesn't know what he wants. Or something.

Here's the problem: the only boundary enforcement I can come up with regarding this is to divorce H. I did enforce a financial boundary by transferring our remaining joint savings into an account only I can access. Is there something else I could do? The problem is with his behaviour and I can't make him do/not do anything. All I can think of is to remove myself from the equation entirely and I'm not ready to do that. I refuse to just bow out of this marriage because some third party wants in.

(modified because I just figured out how to use the 'list' feature - woohoo! )

[Free One]

All I can think of is to remove myself from the equation entirely and I'm not ready to do that. I refuse to just bow out of this marriage because some third party wants in.

It seems to me just about all of the agreement you had for an open r/s have been violated by your husband, not the girlfriend. It wasn't her deal. It is HIS responsibility to uphold it. I kind of feel you are so focused on her actions, you are blind to the poor behavior of your H.

[arabella]

It seems to me just about all of the agreement you had for an open r/s have been violated by your husband, not the girlfriend. It wasn't her deal. It is HIS responsibility to uphold it. I kind of feel you are so focused on her actions, you are blind to the poor behavior of your H.

Yes, I can definitely see how it would sound that way. I'm entirely aware of just how messed up H's behaviour is. The thing is that I don't want to have a r/s with GF going forward, nor do I have any good long-term history with her, nor did I make any sort of long-term commitment to her. And she did violate the terms of our agreement. I met with her on a number of occasions at the beginning of the r/s and we were friendly - she agreed to the terms with me and assured me that's all she was interested in. In fact, she was engaged to another man at the time (also an open r/s) and she lied to him too (they are no longer together - her decision). She has my contact information and could have got in touch to discuss any of this at any time. So I think she is equally responsible for the mess here. I just don't care to repair my r/s with her (partially because I don't think she is capable of having a healthy r/s with anyone).

Does that make any more sense? I'm totally open to commentary here!

[Clearmind]

He has invested time in this r/s however there were limits established. If you feel uncomfortable and the boundaries of the arrangement have been stretched then arabella that is where you start with your boundaries - yes it will feel risky, I completely understand.

I do agree that this has nothing to do with GF - this is something between you and H - GF may have her own limits/boundaries.

Chances are he may not remember the boundaries like you do. H and you should not at all include GF in the discussions between the two of you. That line should be drawn - GF is not someone you can control nor can H - its your marriage that needs discussing.

[Grey Kitty]

I agree that the GF didn't "play by the rules". I'd also add that she sounds like more of a mess than your H, so she probably created more of the drama than he did!

However since you have already decided that on a personal, direct level, you want no r/s with the GF, that truth isn't very relevant to you. Effectively you have already asserted the strongest boundary you can with regard to her, and show no interest in changing that.

Therefore, the only thing you can do about her at this point is complain. (This is a pretty reasonable activity, but not productive in the company of your H   )

Your H's behavior is a different matter entirely. And it is messy. First, he broke a bunch of those rules a while ago. Now things have shifted somewhat, and there is a new defacto set of rules between you and your H, given that he has broken several of them with limited consequences from you... . and given that he is still contemplating moving in with GF from the sounds of things.

I dunno... . I don't envy you the long-term choices I see for you:

• Wait it out:
  
  
  
  
  
  • Wait and see if your H figures out that his GF is the problem, not the solution, and then dumps her
  
  
  
  • Wait and see if your H doesn't give your GF what she wants... . or she otherwise goes off, and she dumps him
  
  
  
  • Wait and see if your H and your GF manage to create a r/s which will play well with your marriage
  
  
  
  
  
  This part really sucks 'cuz you don't know how long you will have to wait through all this.
  
  



• Re-define the structure and rules of your marriage so that your H's current behavior fits.



• Re-define your role in your open marriage so that you get more of your needs taken care of by someone other than your H.



• End your marriage

 I hope that giving up on some of the expectations/caring continues to bring you some peace! 

[arabella]

He has invested time in this r/s however there were limits established. If you feel uncomfortable and the boundaries of the arrangement have been stretched then arabella that is where you start with your boundaries - yes it will feel risky, I completely understand.

I do agree that this has nothing to do with GF - this is something between you and H - GF may have her own limits/boundaries.

Chances are he may not remember the boundaries like you do. H and you should not at all include GF in the discussions between the two of you. That line should be drawn - GF is not someone you can control nor can H - its your marriage that needs discussing.

I think I need some boundary suggestions. I'm sort of at a loss at to what to do. It may be obvious, I'm just in a bit of a brain fuzz.

H does actually remember the boundaries - which makes it worse (in more ways than one). He knows he's screwed it up and that's also feeding into his dysregulation over the whole thing. This happened last time too - he gets into this mindset that he's messed up too badly to fix it and then gets obsessed with the idea that I can never forgive him (which is really irritating/frustrating). That's all sort of an aside atm though.

Grey Kitty - I see the same choices. I can't really see the r/s with GF working out (though I never count chickens when all I have is eggs) but, yes, the waiting is ridiculous. I'm not pleased with the idea of constantly reforming the rules to suit H - that's just a free-for-all and perpetuates the problem I'm currently experiencing into the future (I think?) Of course, I'm not sure that's not what's happened anyway. Ugh? I suppose, on the upside, I can pretty much do whatever I want to within the marriage at this point - so there's some freedom there.

I'm trying to figure out how to feel okay about everything at this point. I feel like a bit of a chump. I still don't want to leave though... . Is it just a matter of changing my perspective? Is there something I could ask for that might help? I actually just don't know. There's a certain (read: total) lack of clarity in the eye of the storm.

[Grey Kitty]

   I wish I had better choices for you.

Taking care of yourself well during this immediately crazy time for him ... . and for you does make sense.

Once some of that settles down... . you can start working on ways to keep yourself feeling fulfilled and happy in ways that do not depend upon him as much.

And revisit the ugly choices again later, as a somewhat stronger and happier arabella, I hope.

 

[arabella]

Thanks, GK! I appreciate the extra  s!

I'm on my own atm so I am definitely working on doing my own thing. So far so good. I had some help from mother nature too (not so great). Major storms here and no power. So I've had to contend with travelling to find a place to store food, get internet access, etc. Total PIA.  Of course, H has power, but I'm not able to utilize any of that space (like the functioning freezer) because the GF is there. ARGH!

So you think it's okay to just go along with this right now? I don't want to be seen as approving of or, worse, encouraging, all of this. Not that I have a lot of say in it anyway. Mostly I am keeping my contact to a minimum. I'm getting texts - much nicer than usual. Random 'I love you' and 'you're awesome' type stuff. Which is very unusual. What's up with that? I'm staying positive with my replies, but I worry that it's sending the wrong message? Like it's okay to just leave me hanging with a few texts and get back to me whenever he feels like it. Not that I can convey a heck of a lot via text anyway and I don't really want to try (too easy to just make a mess).

[Grey Kitty]

I dunno... . I'm feeling like my life is a mess right now myself anyhow... . but that is another topic.

My thought about waiting was didn't you say that your H had a week's vacation with GF scheduled right now? That was the time period I was thinking that you might consider giving him... . what other options are you willing to entertain right now?

You don't mention transportation troubles. Did your H let you have the car for now so he wouldn't be arranging sharing it with you in front of GF?

[arabella]

Yes, you're right about the week, GK. It's just that last week he told me he wasn't going to let her stay the full week. Then he told me she was, and that she'd then be back again a week later, and expected me to be all pleased about it. I wasn't (obviously) but I didn't say anything except to say it caught me off-guard given what he'd said earlier. I'm biting my tongue. I hope I can get in a few words once GF is away for the week, but I'm not sure what to say. I feel so... . de-prioritized. Whenever H and I were together he would drop everything if he had a date (online/phone) with GF and now it's just more of the same. I guess I should expect it. No real way to enforce a boundary with cancelled dates - there's nothing I can do about it, right? So here I sit.  

I borrowed a car from my parents. H needed the car to shuttle GF around and sharing wasn't an option (as you said, so he wouldn't have to tell her about the situation with me). I also still don't have power (am at my parents place atm, out of town) and still no help from H. He was supposed to come by this morning with breakfast (I have no food b/c I have no fridge or way to heat water) and a backup power supply for my phone. Nope. I got a series of texts (an hour after I enquired as to where the heck he was) - apparently he got into an argument with the GF so today "isn't good" for him. Yeah, okay, but I needed the food and power supply. I'm told he "might" have time for a phone call later tonight. what the heck? Aaaanyway... .

Hope things start lining up for you, GK!