my wife wants to bring me before the high priest and condemn me

[joe_schmoe]

Seriously, my uBPD wife wants us to visit a (Catholic) priest so that she can tell him how sinful I am and see if he agrees with her so she can validate her belief that I am a terribly sinful person. At first I wouldn't even entertain the notion, but then I did tell her that I would go and let her tell him everything she wants to tell him, if we can talk about ALL aspects of our marriage (meaning all the BPD behaviors). She agreed, but I think she is regretting it now. We haven't gone yet, but I am still second guessing myself. I thought it might be an opportunity to brings thing out into the open with a third party, but this may not be the best format.

What do you think?

She puts up a huge religious front so everyone can see how holy she is and then condemns everyone from her throne behind their back. She is the very definition of pious hypocrite.

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[yeeter]

Here is what I think:

You dont have to go.

And you dont have to adopt her religious beliefs or values.

Use boundaries in your direct interactions with her, and live your own values.

[joe_schmoe]

I realize I don't 'have' to go, but should I? Should I let this play out. Can it possibly go well?

I'm Catholic too and we both have the same religion. It's just that she thinks she is better than me (and everyone else).

[Grey Kitty]

Getting a pwBPD told that there are problems in their behavior by an authority figure (priest) sounds invalidating to me, and likely to bring up ugly feelings and moods if you ask me.

Giving a pwBPD more things they can throw at you to criticize you doesn't sound helpful... . but they can usually invent anything they need in this category.

The best outcome I could imagine to this would be if the Priest was wise/kind/smart enough to refuse to play this game and try to start something more like couples counseling for the two of you.

[joe_schmoe]

The "sins" aren't anything like infidelity or anything that any rational person would consider serious. In fact, they aren't anything specific. She told me that I wasn't "catholic enough" (read "good" enough) for her and she wants to see if annulment is an option for her (after 15 years).

[MammaMia]

Joe

I thought you were going to say she wanted an exorcism performed on you.  My son dBPD also is hyper-religious.  It is a very strange experience to be with someone who truly believes everyone but him is possessed by the devil.  That is why society is crumbling into a cesspool caused by "evil with skin on it".  aka "bad people".

I am not Catholic but I can see pros and cons to what she wants you to do.  It could soothe her to think the priest has had you denounce your evil ways or it may be fuel for the fire as someone else said.  

Would her priest counsel her on her erroneous beliefs in private?  Surely, a priest would be able to spot mental illness.  Is he/she aware of your wife's disorder?

If she is close to the church, he may be.

[charred]

My folks divorced when I was a kid, my dad is horrible NPD... . been estranged for him for close to 15 yrs now... . but this reminds me of something that happened close to the divorce.

My folks were going to go to a MC, so dad being a MD, he picked the MC.

They went, and he wanted the MC to "fix her"... . when the MC said he needed individual counseling, my dad called him a quack and refused to go to any more MC.

Sounds like your wife is looking for an ally (think small angry mob for a witch hunt)... . to use against you.

With BPD... . doesn't sound too unusual.

Good luck

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not Catholic myself, so I'm not sure how a priest would respond to this sort of crap... . I doubt he's going to bite on stuff like you aren't Catholic enough. If there are allegations of abuse or infidelity, that could be taken seriously by the priest.

I think my response would be:

"You are welcome to talk to the priest. If the priest wants to talk to me after you finish, let me know."

I'd be prepared to then refuse to accept a list of all the ways that my wife told me the priest said I should reform myself, insisting that I would only hear that directly from the priest. But no need to say this if she comes back after talking to the priest.

[motherof1yearold]

I'm going to comment on the religious aspect,

my ex BPD H LOVES to use the bible and cherry pick certain points. He goes to the old testament and quotes things.

After we divorced, he insisted I was cheating the whole marriage (probably projection) He literally went out of his way to read certain passages in the bible about unfaithful women, telling me I deserved to be stoned to death in public.

He uses things to his advantage , ignores things about himself, and DOES NOT hold himself to any standard of christianity, better yet, human decency!

[joe_schmoe]

Thanks for all the replies. It makes me feel better to hear some rational thought on the subject.

She is looking for an ally and since she is high functioning, I don't think the priest will see it unless I point it out (which I don't plan on doing). She does not know him well, or vice versa. I am hoping he does recommend individual counseling. I'm all for it. Then I hope he recommends that she see someone professionally.

That is the only reason I am going through with it.

[yeeter]

I realize I don't 'have' to go, but should I? Should I let this play out. Can it possibly go well?

I'm Catholic too and we both have the same religion. It's just that she thinks she is better than me (and everyone else).

Sorry Joe, didn't mean to sound flippant.

But the concept of one person judging you to go in front of a 'higher' authority for judgment (really reinforcement of negative judgment), just doesn't sound great to me.

My wife is NPD/BPD.  And we tried some of these third party interactions, including our pastor.  BUT, with the pastor we met separately, not combined.  I think this was quite helpful because it gave him a perspective he would never get if combined.

For MC, all the attempts were a disaster.  Whenever a MC didn't support my wife's view, it would crash and blow up.  Sometimes quite dramatically.  She would then denounce the MC as incompetent and that would be the end.

Since you are both religious, you might get somewhere if she is willing to meet with the priest to work on things individually.  As a couple, I don't have high hopes that someone not experienced and skilled with BPD will be effective.  Especially if she is high functioning, because my guess is her positions will be pretty distorted, but skillfully presented, and you won't be able to convey reality.  In fact, it's not uncommon for unskilled MC to make things worse.

I don't like saying to not try... . But be careful.  I would recommend you have some 1:1 time with the priest, each of you, in addition to any joint work.

Good luck!

[Chosen]

Seriously, my uBPD wife wants us to visit a (Catholic) priest so that she can tell him how sinful I am and see if he agrees with her so she can validate her belief that I am a terribly sinful person. At first I wouldn't even entertain the notion, but then I did tell her that I would go and let her tell him everything she wants to tell him, if we can talk about ALL aspects of our marriage (meaning all the BPD behaviors). She agreed, but I think she is regretting it now. We haven't gone yet, but I am still second guessing myself. I thought it might be an opportunity to brings thing out into the open with a third party, but this may not be the best format.

What do you think?

She puts up a huge religious front so everyone can see how holy she is and then condemns everyone from her throne behind their back. She is the very definition of pious hypocrite.

Hi joe_schmoe,

I’ve had very similar experiences on this front, so I hope my experience will be of help.  My uBPDh and I are Protestants, but still, even without Catholic guilt, he used to throw out all these religious attacks at me, saying what I do is shameful and God will condemn me, etc.  And it used to hurt me so badly because I strive to be a godly person (although far from it), and here is my own husband saying everything I’m doing is displeased by God!

Like you, I also said that I don’t mind him telling everybody in church how “bad” I am.  I am not the perfect person but like the average person, I’m sometimes bad and sometimes good.  I don’t think I’m more “sinful” than the rest of the world.  However, obviously he never does that (because he’s done stuff that nobody would approve of, church people or not).  So like your wife, he knows he’s far from perfect too.  But religious pwBPDs often use this “God” aspect to condemn others since it seems to have more authority. 

I think going or not going doesn’t really matter, to be honest.  No matter how sinful you are, it’s a matter between you and God.  It’s between the two of you to deal with.  However, it is worth thinking whether telling a priest about the BPD behaviours of your wife will be helpful, because if they don’t know anything about BPD, the pwBPD may put on a pleasant, “normal” front and they may believe it.  Then the pwBPD will think somebody really sides with them.  Or, if your wife’s anything like my H, she will think you attack her in front of other people, which will lead to rages and further cement the notion that you are evil.

It’s not easy and sorry I have no advice on what action you should take.  But you should know that who you are, how sinful you are, is not determined by your wife.  When she’s dysregulated she may think she is God, but she really isn’t.  It’s just like a nervous child telling mummy “but my teacher says I don’t need to do homework”!  They know they have no power so they use a “higher power” to give more persuasion…

[yeeter]

But you should know that who you are, how sinful you are, is not determined by your wife.

+1   

[VeryFree]

What do you expect to get out of this?

- If the priest is with her, she will be validated in her ideas about you.

- If the priest isn't with her, she will NOT be invalidated in her ideas about you, but will not trust the priest.

[joe_schmoe]

Hi Scared,

Actually, what  I expected was what I stated in a previous reply; that I want the priest to recommend individual counseling and then professional therapy since he is not a professional and not equipped to deal with it.

[joe_schmoe]

Just in case someone is interested... .

We did have our meeting. The result: Completely Pointless.

My wife brought up everything she wanted to say about me. I responded by stating what I thought of everything. The priest was just going through the motions of listening to us. The conclusion: everyone's a sinner, go home and try again.

I'm willing to bet the priest didn't remember a thing that was said 5 minutes after it was over. She vented her frustrations and I basically just listened to the two of them talk (her venting and him preaching). He didn't say anything that you wouldn't hear on any given Sunday. The details of her accusations were completely moot. He really didn't care. He had a job to do and his job is the same no matter what the subject matter.

So, that's over. New day; moving on.

Thanks for all the advice.

Oh, and he did not recommend the individual counseling like I hoped. So that will have to come about some other way.

[MammaMia]

Joe

I am sorry... .   the priest failed you both.  Can you speak to him privately and let him know what is REALLY at the root of her accusations?  He could then contact her for a private discussion about therapy?  Sounds like he missed the entire point of the meeting. 

Does she have a physician she trusts?  Perhaps you need to pursue this avenue of approach   ?

[musicfan42]

I've been in a similar position Joe before so I can relate... . I am not going to say anymore lest I offend anyone... .

[MammaMia]

There is nothing worse than a disinterested religious or medical professional.    Sadly, as you said, they just go through the motions.  If they are not able to offer constructive advice, they should refer people to someone who CAN.   

Where is their compassion?  They are trained to help those in need.

When people come to them, it is because they are in trouble. In this case the

obvious mental health issue needed to be addressed.  It is almost as if the priest said... . "hey, it is not my problem... . go home and fix it yourself".  To say God forgives your sins and send you on your way is a cop out.

I am curious as to how your wife felt about the visit?  Did it accomplish her goals of making you feel bad and making her feel superior?

[Chosen]

Even though I am a "religious" person (i.e. have a faith system I believe in, go to church, practise the faith), unfortunately, I have to say that most people working in the religious field don't have good knowledge of mental disorders, and if certain things happen in their congregations that are out of hand, many choose to willingly/ unwillingly ignore the problems because they can't explain it or solve it.

I have read about marital abuse in the church, and a lot of leaders don't face those problems because (1) they don't want to "condemn" somebody (even though they did something terribly ungodly), and (2) they have similar problems themselves, and (3) they fear the reaction of the wider congregation.

Adding to the formula is the fact that many high-functioning pwBPDs don't display any symptoms out there.  Like my H, he is at most a difficult person sometimes, but I bet if you told people who he says and does to me, 99% of people will choose not to believe me.  Of course, even if he was confronted by others (not that I have told them), he could easily shift the blame on me unless they caught him doing/ saying whatever at that moment.  But chances are slim because he does those in private.

My C is from my church, but she is also a trained counselor and has met with people with mental disorders, so she understands the situation.  But then there is not a lot that can be done by her, except to encourage me and lead me to think of solutions for myself.

[yeeter]

I bet if you told people who he says and does to me, 99% of people will choose not to believe me.  Of course, even if he was confronted by others (not that I have told them), he could easily shift the blame on me unless they caught him doing/ saying whatever at that moment.  But chances are slim because he does those in private.

This has been my experience.  Even in MC, with trained personnel (8 different attempts!).  So after I privately produce some emails between us, to take pictures to provide context of how my wife was representing things - the MC's started challenging her.  One flat out accusing her of skewing or misrepresenting - she would blow up and denounce them.

Other friends of hers have dropped her and admitted to me privately that she was fine 'right up until they disagreed with her' - then a fallout. 

I think it goes back to the underlying threat/fear that must happen if her reality turns out not to be 100% accurate.  Since the way she feels about herself is based on these assumptions of reality - if it turns out not to be the case, then it would trigger bad emotions for her.  So she has to defend these at all costs to feel good about herself.

The net net is that I have accepted that her reality is her reality.  We now even openly state that we have two different realities.  This does create some problems;  1) what action to take when there is a direct conflict between our realities and yet something needs to happen and 2) limited genuine emotional connection or sharing, because to do that would highlight that her reality might not hold water