Judge awarded me sole custody: what is best way to tell S12?

[livednlearned]

Trial was today, and man am I exhausted. I haven't fully processed everything, but the major outcome is that the judge awarded me sole custody of S12.

Starting this weekend, there is a new schedule, too. S12 will no longer see his dad every weekend, now it's every other weekend for 4 hours Sat, and 4 hours Sun.

S12's therapist said that it's good for S12 to be reassured that things have been settled, so he isn't left wondering. So I'm wondering how best to talk about it? Do I mentioned the mental health issues? N/BPDx said I could see a copy of the report right there in the courtroom. How did you tell your kids? How did the kids take it?

[Forward2free]

My kids don't know anything about their dad's mental health diagnosis, but they are aware of his anger, temper, attitude and other issues within our marriage from their experience. As time goes on, they forget what happened which makes it harder for them to remember the problems.

My kids spoke with a court ordered evaluator and I told them that people were helping us to decide how much time they should spend with dad to make sure it stays a safe and fun environment and that it was important to tell the truth. I told them the experts decided on 4 hours a fortnight, and they accepted it. I occasionally get questions but it's never about the big stuff.

I'm about to move into more shared time with BPD/Nxh so there are some more conversations to come, but I'll cross that bridge soon.

Be honest in an age appropriate way. You don't want to bad-mouth his dad, it's still his dad and he will feel something... .

[AnotherPhoenix]

  Congratulations, LnL!   

You did it!

I hope you are able to chill for the next couple of days.


Regarding your questions on what to tell your son, keep it simple, as Kormilda suggested. What I told my son was that mommy and I met with the judge and finished the divorce. Then I told him that we decided that things would stay the same, with half of his time with mommy and half of his time with daddy, just like he wanted--that nothing will change. I think it will take time for your son to fully process the information.

As for discussing anything about your ex's problems, what I've read, and what works for me, is to only bring up topics like these when it is needed for my S8. And then, to ask him how he feels about it, and take it from there. I think you are already used to talking to your son this way.

AnotherPheonix     

[catnap]

Just want to say congrats on getting sole custody.   

[ForeverDad]

How do you spell Relief?   I am glad you got away from the every-weekend schedule.  The alternate weekend schedule is tried and true.  This gives you an opportunity for getaway weekends.

What's the story with your need to relocate for work?  Any progress there or any clues/direction given?

[newlymarried]

THe judge decided to make things easier for us to see our family in Canada. I think that is how I would present it.

Yay! I can't imagine how much nicer things are going to be for you. I am doing a happy dance for you.

[Waddams]

To me, 12 years old is plenty old enough to just tell him the outcome of the case.  Judge has awarded you sole legal custody of him.  He can and will still have a relationship with his dad, and you want to encourage and support a good relationship with his father as much as you can.  However, legal decisions regarding his upbringing are all now under your sole purview.  His dad can (likely will) still voice opinions/concerns, but you are the sole decision maker.

I wouldn't go into any other details.

[DreamGirl]

What wonderful news!

What has been the dialogue so far about court proceedings? He definitely should know that the schedule is going to be different.

I don't know that there needs to be much sharing as far as the terminology of "sole custody" and what that entails exactly - but more of just letting him know that a lot will stay the same except the schedule. Ask him how he feels about that... .

You've pretty much been taking care of him for the most part anyways. I also think he's probably cognizant of the fact that you are the primary caretaker and that Dad's involvement and visits are going to be limited.

I'm really happy for you, LnL.  

[Free One]

My T suggested when discussing the schedule to use the context of the Judge made the rule... . puts the responsibility on the authority figure outside of the family. I think saying a judge reviewed the schedule and has made a new rule that it will be this way. I think dx discussion is for later age.

[livednlearned]

I feel like a giant ice berg just moved out of my head. I don't know how else to explain it.

Today a bus filled with kids drove by me on the highway, and through one of the windows I saw this little kid's elbow and the just the back of his head. Maybe he was 6 or 7? And I started crying like I haven't in a while. Can't even explain where it came from, or why the glimpse of someone else's son made me so emotional.

It feels like I just got S12 to safety, and I want to hug him to pieces and get back to the work of shaping his life without fighting this impossible negative adversary. But yesterday when I picked S12 up, after such a tough emotional day, I just watched him hop in the car and listened to him chatter away about his day, and didn't say anything about what just happened. I thought my heart was going to split open driving home -- I asked him if he wanted to have dinner out, which is a huge treat for us, and he said, No I just want dinner at home like we usually do, mom.

It's probably how it should be, just go ahead and do normal things, because that's what I've been fighting for all this time. Normal!

Anyway, I think I'm going to say something about what happened, but will wait to hear from S12's therapist -- I called her yesterday to let her know the outcome of the trial. She's the one who felt he needed to know that I am the decider   so that he has reassurance about who is taking care of him, and that things are certain and settled.

I never asked her, though, if I should talk about the mental illness.  

[Free One]

Congratulations, btw. I can't imagine what a huge relief it is to be done with it.

Second thoughts coming up here. I do think you should tell S12 in some way that dad's actions resulted in this. Make him see that his dad does have to suffer the consequences - and make it clear you are not trying to punish S12, but that adults are expected to care for children and take care of them, and they don't get to do whatever just because they are adults.

[Matt]

Talking to S12's counselor is a great idea - ours helped me figure this out.

Age-appropriate is key.

Check your motives - make sure you know why you are telling him everything you tell him, and that it's for his benefit.

My kids were 8 and 10 when we separated, and I was counseled to tell them relatively little, then wait to see what they asked.  I remember S8 asked, "Will we still take the same bus to school when we're with you?"  At the time I thought it was just an idle thought, but later I realized he was concerned about the other kids noticing - he was ashamed and didn't want anybody to know.

Other questions they asked were very practical, not philosophical or abstract.  Mostly about the impact on them short-term.

In time I think it's best to get stuff out in the open - not many secrets - and that will probably include telling him something about their father's diagnosis and behavior patterns.  For now he's more likely to be concerned about who will pick him up for each visit, and what if the visit overlaps some other events, etc.

[Forward2free]

But yesterday when I picked S12 up, after such a tough emotional day, I just watched him hop in the car and listened to him chatter away about his day, and didn't say anything about what just happened. I thought my heart was going to split open driving home -- I asked him if he wanted to have dinner out, which is a huge treat for us, and he said, No I just want dinner at home like we usually do, mom.

It's probably how it should be, just go ahead and do normal things, because that's what I've been fighting for all this time. Normal!

I have had many court and court related appearances over the last 4 years and I empathise with how this played out for you. The biggest things happened to me during the day, and even though it affects DD and DS life, health and welfare, the biggest things in their day are often more important, and it matters that you listen. Love and security is just something that the kids take for granted, being protected and having a stable lifestyle now is normal for them.

I often think that parenting with a BPD/NPD/abusive/high-conflict other parent is like being a duck. The kids look at you, the duck, and see the duck looking so serene and calm on top of the water, but underneath the water, the ducks legs are madly paddling. Your son wasn't worried about your day, he knew you had it taken care of. He trusts you.

Rejoice and take some well-earned rest. Speak with the counselor and come up with a game plan. A few more days wont hurt!

How did N/BPDx perform in the courtroom?

[Forward2free]

I never asked her, though, if I should talk about the mental illness.  

Have you seen this post in the Articles section?

What to Tell the Kids About a High-Conflict Co-Parent

© 2013 by Bill Eddy, LCSW, CFLS

www.highconflictinstitute.com/articles/parenting-a-divorce-articles/78-hci-articles/published-articles/154-high-conflict-co-parent

[Free One]

Have you seen this post in the Articles section?

What to Tell the Kids About a High-Conflict Co-Parent

© 2013 by Bill Eddy, LCSW, CFLS

www.highconflictinstitute.com/articles/parenting-a-divorce-articles/78-hci-articles/published-articles/154-high-conflict-co-parent

Great article!

I'm with Matt that things need to come out eventually, but maybe not until children are adults and can manage the information about mental illness. Since there is a strong genetic link with mental illness, I think not giving your children this information at some point could be harmful.

[Matt]

Since there is a strong genetic link with mental illness, I think not giving your children this information at some point could be harmful.

At the same time, if you read stuff in the "Healing from a relationship with a BPD parent" section here, one of the most frequent comments from adults who were raised by someone with BPD is how much they wished their other parent had handled things differently.

Not necessarily told them "Your father has BPD", but validated the kids' perceptions and feelings about what was happening.

Too often, the healthier parent makes the kid question their own perceptions and feelings, instead of validating them.  So the child grows up thinking that they're crazy and the whole world is sane, or the other way around, when what they need is for someone to tell them, "What you are experiencing is real, and your feelings about it are valid."

So... . telling young kids stuff they can't understand - "Your father has BPD" - may not help them, but telling them that the behaviors they see are real and wrong, and it's OK for them to feel confused, or frustrated, or whatever, might be a big help to them.

[mamachelle]

Congratulations!

Great news!

With my 2 DD 13 and 16-- the stories of being with their Dad come out at the weirdest times. I don't think they felt safe telling me or they repressed stuff.

They have not seen him in 4 years I think now and they still tell me stuff I had not heard before. We are all still processing it. They know he has something called Borderline Personality Disorder but even as wise as they are for their years they still are angry with him and sad and don't see the diagnosis as a real explanation. They have been in therapy but are not right now.

I guess what I am trying to say is that in my case, my DD have been telling me that their Dad is mentally ill and I've just been responding as others have here with validation and as much information as they can handle.


mamachelle

[momtara]

I know you've posted before, but I'm curious what the main (awful) things were that your ex did that allowed you to get sole custody?  I'm the same age as you and like you (in the past), I have joint legal w/primary, but I always wonder if I should try for sole.  Feel free to link to your earlier post if you explained that.  I am just curious.  Anyway, congrats!

[Free One]

So... . telling young kids stuff they can't understand - "Your father has BPD" - may not help them, but telling them that the behaviors they see are real and wrong, and it's OK for them to feel confused, or frustrated, or whatever, might be a big help to them.

Yes, I agree for children, but once your kids are adults, don't you think they should know what the cause of these behaviors were... . just as you would tell them about a family history of breast cancer, diabetes or heart disease?

[Matt]

So... . telling young kids stuff they can't understand - "Your father has BPD" - may not help them, but telling them that the behaviors they see are real and wrong, and it's OK for them to feel confused, or frustrated, or whatever, might be a big help to them.

Yes, I agree for children, but once your kids are adults, don't you think they should know what the cause of these behaviors were... . just as you would tell them about a family history of breast cancer, diabetes or heart disease?

Yeah, I do.

I'm not sure all psychological disorders have genetic causes - I think the main contributor to BPD is early-life trauma - but in any case, I think openness is usually best, once the kids are at the right age (whatever that is).

I've had pretty complete talks with my adult kids.  I figure I can share the information and they can take it from there.  One of them has handled it OK but maybe still some denial.  The other has completely ignored it - pretends it's not real.  I'm hoping in time they'll both deal with it better, but at least I know I've done my part.

I also think openness is good for younger kids, but in the right ways and at the right times, and as discussed here, that may not mean any mention of BPD or another psych disorder til they're older.

I really like the article Kormilda posted - I think that's a super-helpful and simple way to look at it, especially for younger kids.

[livednlearned]

At the same time, if you read stuff in the "Healing from a relationship with a BPD parent" section here, one of the most frequent comments from adults who were raised by someone with BPD is how much they wished their other parent had handled things differently.

Not necessarily told them "Your father has BPD", but validated the kids' perceptions and feelings about what was happening.

Too often, the healthier parent makes the kid question their own perceptions and feelings, instead of validating them.  So the child grows up thinking that they're crazy and the whole world is sane, or the other way around, when what they need is for someone to tell them, "What you are experiencing is real, and your feelings about it are valid."

So... . telling young kids stuff they can't understand - "Your father has BPD" - may not help them, but telling them that the behaviors they see are real and wrong, and it's OK for them to feel confused, or frustrated, or whatever, might be a big help to them.

I am not hearing much from S12 about his dad's behaviors. But my hunch is that S12 is being idealized. It wasn't like that during the marriage, but it is now. I think S12 is being indulged, and told that he is gifted, and that he has all these special talents, and he is the most amazing this and the most amazing that.

S12 knows that his dad is an alcoholic, so I don't need to get into that much. I can say that too much drinking made some of his dad's other problems even worse, and because of the combination of drinking and other problems, his dad does things and says things that cause a lot of conflict for himself and for other people. Because of those conflicts, I decided to become the decider, and now S12 is in my sole care. Nothing will change except the schedule, and now we can go see family in Canada.

How does that sound?

[Matt]

S12 knows that his dad is an alcoholic, so I don't need to get into that much.

Well maybe you don't need to tell him that again, if he really understands it and accepts it.  But kids of alcoholics need a lot of support and help all through their teens.  Lots of stuff can happen that S12 may need help understanding.

Did you say you had found a counselor for him?

[livednlearned]

S12 knows that his dad is an alcoholic, so I don't need to get into that much.

Well maybe you don't need to tell him that again, if he really understands it and accepts it.  But kids of alcoholics need a lot of support and help all through their teens.  Lots of stuff can happen that S12 may need help understanding.

Did you say you had found a counselor for him?

Yes, he has had a counselor who he's been seeing since we left, almost 3 years ago. He likes her, and doesn't mind going.

[Free One]

S12 knows that his dad is an alcoholic, so I don't need to get into that much. I can say that too much drinking made some of his dad's other problems even worse, and because of the combination of drinking and other problems, his dad does things and says things that cause a lot of conflict for himself and for other people. Because of those conflicts, I decided to become the decider, and now S12 is in my sole care. Nothing will change except the schedule, and now we can go see family in Canada.

How does that sound?

I like the gist. I'm sure he's seen the problems alcohol can cause and this shows him some real cause and effect of his dad's actions.

[livednlearned]

S12 knows that his dad is an alcoholic, so I don't need to get into that much. I can say that too much drinking made some of his dad's other problems even worse, and because of the combination of drinking and other problems, his dad does things and says things that cause a lot of conflict for himself and for other people. Because of those conflicts, I decided to become the decider, and now S12 is in my sole care. Nothing will change except the schedule, and now we can go see family in Canada.

How does that sound?

I like the gist. I'm sure he's seen the problems alcohol can cause and this shows him some real cause and effect of his dad's actions.

I guess what I'm really hoping for is that S12 sees what happens when you don't take responsibility for your actions. I don't want him to think it's just about alcohol. And I want to stop his dad from making it seem like I "took" S12 away from him. I've had it being blamed for his craziness.

[Matt]

There are lots of books and information online to help kids deal with a parent's alcoholism.  I can't recommend any;  I was lucky enough to be close to my stepson's rehab, where they have programs for families, so that's the guidance that helped us.

Al-Anon might be good - for you first and then maybe S12 too, or maybe you can bring home what you learn.

[Free One]

I guess what I'm really hoping for is that S12 sees what happens when you don't take responsibility for your actions. I don't want him to think it's just about alcohol. And I want to stop his dad from making it seem like I "took" S12 away from him. I've had it being blamed for his craziness.

I think that's why we are all on this board. 

I don't have the answers for that. I think we are all, in some ways, taking stabs in the dark to find out what works. All we can do is share what we've tried, keep trying new things until it works, and be here to support each other in the process.

[livednlearned]

I'm also thinking I'll wait until after S12 sees his dad. I think N/BPDx will grill S12 about what I've told him after trial. I don't want S12 to be put in the middle like that, when things are still hot.

Not sure that's the right strategy, but my gut tells me that's the best thing for S12.

[ForeverDad]

"Son, you know your father and I were recently in court, various decisions were made and really very little changed as far as it affects your daily life.  The major change you will see is that you'll be seeing your father only every other weekend now, that's closer to what standard schedules are like, they all use alternate weekend visits.  I don't know what you father will tell you, but if you have any questions for me at any time, day or night, I'll be right here to help answer them."

[Matt]

Well I would definitely suggest talking to S12 first.  Our marriage counselor recommended that I do that - she said it in front of my stbX!  "Matt, I think it would be best if you talk with each of the kids soon."

When you talk with S12, you will have the opportunity to help him see this in the way that is most helpful to him.  You can think carefully and present it the best way you know how.  And you can answer any questions he has.

Then if he hears something different from his dad, he'll at least know that's not the whole story, and he can decide for himself who he believes.  We all tend to believe what we hear first... .

"Son, you know your father and I were recently in court, various decisions were made and really very little changed as far as it affects your daily life.  The major change you will see is that you'll be seeing your father only every other weekend now, that's closer to what standard schedules are like, they all use alternate weekend visits.  I don't know what you father will tell you, but if you have any questions for me at any time, day or night, I'll be right here to help answer them."

Yeah, this sounds very good to me.  You can always say, "The judge decided that... . " which emphasizes that everything wasn't your choice.

A real key to this is sensing how much information - and what type of information - your son wants and can process.  Reading what FD wrote, one question that might come up is, "Why the change to the schedule?", so you may want to be ready for that.  Maybe "I asked for you to be here more because I like it when you're here and I think you do great here - you get your homework done and things go very well.  Your father didn't agree with that, but the judge decided it would be best, so that's how it will be now."

I would suggest keeping the focus on saying what is true - as little spin as possible - make sure there is nothing you say that your son might find out isn't the whole story - and keeping it simple - don't get into stuff that he may not care about and which will only confuse him.  My kids are smart, but like most kids, they only understand legal stuff based on what's on TV, which is not how things really work, so even smart kids won't fully get what you're saying about the legal stuff.

One area that may be worth going into at some point is his father's issues that are behind this whole discussion.  We've talked about that before - a very difficult issue we all face as parents - but not necessarily what S12 needs to know right now about what happened in court - as FD's draft suggests, the only thing that directly affects S12 is the schedule... .